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A Hypothesis On Segway Hate

theodp writes "Admit it, IT is ingenious. Also, IT is surprisingly effective for certain uses, including real cops and mall cops. And if you tried IT, you probably smiled to yourself. So why all the Segway hate? Paul Graham looks into The Trouble with the Segway and offers a hypothesis about what prompts people to shout abuse at Segway riders: 'You look smug. You don't seem to be working hard enough.' Not that someone riding a motorcycle is working any harder, adds Graham, but because he's sitting astride it, he appears to be making an effort. When you're riding a Segway you're just standing there. Make a version that doesn't look so easy for the rider — perhaps resembling skateboards or bicycles — and Segway just might capture more of the market they hoped to reach."

8 of 487 comments (clear)

  1. like motorcycle riding? by heitikender · · Score: 4, Informative

    Obviously, author has never ridden a motorcycle - he has absolutely no idea, what it takes to ride such thing. On motorcycle, you have a throttle, first brake, rear brake, 6 gears and clutch. To ride it, you have to (ok, don't have to but would be good) understand counter-steering. And on IT? lean yourself and twist the stick. That's all. Pfffff.

    1. Re:like motorcycle riding? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Slow speed turns. Bumps, pot holes, debris, ruts, grates, gravel, wet manhole covers and paint stripes. Avoiding FUCKING SUVS. Visual direction control. Lean angles, peg weighting, body english, counter-steer. Decreasing radius turns.

      Balancing a one-in-front-of-the-other 2 wheeled vehicle traveling at over 70mph through rain, crosswinds and traffic without killing yourself isn't exactly *easy*. It's not really anything like a Segway, and I'm quite angered by this authors belittlement of something that I've spent a very large part of my life learning how to do well. I bet you half of the Segway riders can't even operate a clutch in the first place. He obviously has absolutely no fucking clue.

  2. Re:Bingo by bkpark · · Score: 5, Informative

    My objection to the Segway is that we already HAVE a two wheeled, gyroscopicly balanced transport device: It is called a bicycle. Works much better, and is better for you. In the event that the distances you are covering are too far for that, but you still want an efficient two wheeled transport, there's scooters and motorcycles. Even smallish ones can usually reach highway speeds.

    Actually, a bicycle is not gyroscopically balanced. The angular momentum in the bicycle wheel is tiny compared to the overall mass and moment of inertia of bicycle and the rider. It's actually the rider's own sense of balance (whether the hands are on the handle or not) that keeps the bicycle standing, and which is why you have to learn to ride one.

    This isn't to say, of course, that Segways are superior just because they use a gyroscope.

  3. Re:Bingo by orzetto · · Score: 4, Informative

    If that is so, then why is it so insanely hard to keep the bicycle balanced while not driving?

    Because, on a bike, your manipulated variable is the handlebar's position. When driving, you adjust the handlebar so that the bicycle moves to the side, compensating disturbances. The control action is proportional to handlebar setting angle times speed (roughly), so if speed comes to zero you have no control action available. This is actually gradual: notice how at low speed, you turn the handlebar much more to maintain equilibrium.

    If the bike were actually significantly gyroscopically stabilised, you could bump into a driving biker and see him come back to upright position without him doing anything. In reality, any biker in such a condition will counteract manually using the handlebar.

    --
    Victims of 9/11: <3000. Traffic in the US: >30,000/y
  4. Re:The main reason I've seen for Segway hate by stonewallred · · Score: 4, Informative

    If you are on a bike and bump me with your front wheel, you will quickly find yourself on your ass. Just what kind of person are you that you would allow yourself to be assaulted without responding with force to protect yourself? Perpetuating that geeks are pussies with that attitude. Grow a pair and knock the bicyclist off his bike and kick his ass if he bumps you with it.

  5. Re:Bingo by javaxjb · · Score: 4, Informative

    But, if you follow the footnotes (e.g., http://web.archive.org/web/20080213072335/http://www.losethetrainingwheels.org/default.aspx?Lev=2&ID=34 ) you will see that experiments have shown how insignificant those forces are.

    --
    Programmers in mirror are brighter than they appear
  6. Re:just get a bicycle by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Informative

    The ways in which it beats a bike aren't wildly useful, outside of niche applications; but there are some:

    Stopping: a segway stops swiftly and can remain in place without extra effort by the rider or any loss of stability.

    Turning: a segway can turn either on the move or entirely in place(being able to turn entirely within your own footprint is handy for tight areas).

    Visibility: riding a segway gives you a few extra inches, generally enough to see across a crowd, that a bike typically doesn't.

    Now, for most people, those advantages don't outweigh the costs of a whole bunch of fancy gyroscopes and some dirty looks; but for those that do need them(mall cops and tour groups, for instance, where takup has been pretty decent) they do count.

  7. Re:Or maybe... by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here in the midwest you don't see a lot of segways, so I never heard of "segway hate" before; the only ones I've seen had cops on them. And a lot of people don't like cops at all no matter what's transporting them. Between crooked cops, cops with bad attitudes (like the one in Chicago that beat up the five foot tall woman bartender on camera and the one who beat a shackled man in a wheelchair, again on camera), to bad laws that good cops have to enforce, cops have gotten a bad name.

    But if it was a civilian on a segway I think you hit the nail on the head. It's kind of like caddilac hate; it's a combination of envy and the smug, self-important "I'm better than you" attitude people who drive rediculously expensive cars have and the sociopathic way they're driven.

    When the patent runs out you'll see $200 segways, and you this "problem" will go away.

    The GP mentioned bicycles, I used to ride one untill I took a nasty spill on the way to work. I imagine a segway would be quite a bit safer than a bicycle. I'm looking forward to when they're affordable.