Slashdot Mirror
11.6" Netbooks Face Off
Dr. Damage writes "Netbooks have grown from tiny curiosities with 7" screens into surprisingly well-rounded little computers. The latest step is 11.6" displays with 1366x768 resolution and near-full-sized keyboards. Two such systems are available now for under $400 at US retailers: the Aspire One at Walmart and the Gateway LT3103 at Best Buy. The Gateway packs an Athlon 64 processor and Radeon graphics. The Tech Report bought them both and has compared them head to head in some depth, choosing a clear winner between the two." Like most such in-depth reviews, this one is spread across 10 pages.
soon we'll be marvelling at the 15" netbooks with core 2 duos!!!
I can't wait!
then we'll see the introduction of some amazingly tiny 7" microbook!!
I can't wait!
Nice slashvertisement.
Not.
I have a 7 inch netbook in my pants...
(rounded up to compensate for low self-esteem)
Stop drinking and posting.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Like most such in-depth reviews, this one is spread across 10 pages.
I highly suggest checking out the Firefox Autopager add on. It nicely formats this into a single page for easy reading. Although I do suggest turning off the "Show AutoPager Refinements" as it will give you suggestions on search pages that try to redirect you to some other search engine. Otherwise it is EXCELLENT and fixed a lot of my hatred of viewing this 10 page articles that should be on one page.
i guess it's the cheapskate route for people who really want a 13 inch macbook, but don't need bluetooth or wireless n.
i personally think it shouldn't be called a netbook if you really can't use it all day without carrying around a charger.
Is my 12" Powerbook with 5-hour battery life now retroactively a netbook?
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
For all it's worth, I own one, and I find it fantastic. The resolution is finally high enough to actually use it (I couldn't stomach a 1024x600 screen), and it's VERY thin and light. What did it for me, is the ease with which this netbook can be upgraded. Both the hard drive and memory are easily user-serviceable. Actually, I purchased a 2gb memory kit along with the notebook, and I don't even think I booted it with the 1GB it comes with. I got the WinXP version sans bluetooth from newegg for $380... a little over $400 w. the memory upgrade. The computer also has an internal minPCI slot and a SIM-card reader, which makes it theoretically possible to install an internal 3G card for ultimate portability of communications. The battery lasts about 6.5-7 hours with Wifi usage and brightness set to about 75%. Overally, some of the best $400 I've spent in the digital world.
The glossy shell does attract fingerprints, but I don't really care too much (I lost that compulsion a little while after I got my iPhone). When it really bothers me, I take a damp microfiber cloth to it and the fingerprints come off... really same idea as my car.
As an aside, to be honest I am not a big fan of WinXP these days. I've become spoiled with WinVista64SP1 on my gaming desktop, and Ubuntu on my work laptop.
I'd still like to get a somewhat bigger Linux netbook. I have some EeePC 2G Surf units, and like them, but the original version with the tiny screen just isn't quite enough. Has Microsoft totally crushed the Linux netbook market, or is something cheap still available with no Windows?
What I would like to know is which netbook is John Travolta and which is Nicholas Cage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
A device with a 9" screen and 8+ hours of battery life is a netbook. A device with a 12" screen and just 5 hours of battery life is a sub-notebook.
Or, you know, a notebook...
Bow-ties are cool.
I have an original eee 701 and I am very happy with it. It is about right size, has large enough keyboard to type short notes and so on. The only complaint really is that it is a bit on the thick side and the use time is slightly too short. I really like the use of a solid state disk and lack of windows too, not to mention the 199 euros I paid for it as new.
I am hoping that once the current crazyness of calling ever larger things netbooks is finally over someone will make something revolutionary.. whatever they call it then... something the size of eee PC, though hopefully by then they can make it thinner. I will likely personally need such in about 4-5 years or so.. hope they have again such on the market at that point instead of the current "netbooks"
One time a scientist friend of mine talked about a pet peeve of his regarding some academic papers: when the Abstract section reads like an advertisement for the paper, rather than a summary.
I wish kdawson had the same sensibilities.
Since both have an ATI graphics chip the choice is easy, neither.
The Aspire One has an Intel graphics chipset. If you'd really rather run that instead of an ATI chipset, be my guest...
Bow-ties are cool.
I read the whole article; I thought it was worth my time. But I'll summarize the most important points for you.
He liked the Gateway better. The Athlon64 uses more power and radiates more heat compared to the Atom in the Acer; but it delivers more performance, and the author thinks it's worth it. If you want maximum run time and don't care so much about performance, the Acer would be better for you. (The Atom does hyperthreading, and some video codecs are tuned to take advantage of that, so the Acer did slightly better than expected on some video playback; but even so, he felt the Athlon64 was better overall for video playback.)
Both netbooks come pre-loaded with Vista and piles of bloatware. He scrubbed off the bloatware and updated Vista to the latest service pack, and the machines were a bit faster. He then installed Windows 7 and they were a bit faster again, but not amazingly so. He didn't say anything about Linux, but I'll wager that if he put Ubuntu 9.04 on the netbooks, they would fly.
By the way, I'm running Ubuntu on a six-month-old 10.6" Acer Aspire One, with an Atom chip, and the performance is great. My biggest complaint is that there are dialog boxes that are just too big for the vertical resolution (600 pixels); the reviewed netbooks both have 1366x768 resolution, so the dialog boxes that annoy me would not be a problem. (I'm talking about the setup dialogs for Evolution. To set up Evolution, I had to judiciously use the Tab key to move the highlight to the "Okay" button, which was not visible because the dialogs were too tall; it worked but it was a huge pain, and not everyone would know you can even do that.) I've been meaning to try the special Netbook Remix version of Ubuntu... but with these new 11" netbooks, there would be no reason to bother; just run Ubuntu 9.04.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
The Gateway one "won" in the writer's estimate, due to a larger screen, faster CPU, better graphics.
Well that's effing retarded.
The entire -point- of netbooks is that they are small. The whole netbook industry seems to be grappling with its product identity, and reviewers aren't helping by routinely grading them on how close to a laptop they are.
Netbooks should be graded on size, favoring SMALL. Performance is important, but secondary to battery life. Items like durability, and comfort of the keyboard, position of the trackpad (or inclusion of a track point), operating system options, connectivity (usb/firewire/vga/dvi/etc), dvdrw internal or external, ram, flash, hard drive, etc should all factor in.
Selecting for "Largest screen and hard drive" however is demented. I can buy a Toshiba at Bestbuy for 299$ with a 15.4" screen and a 160GB hd. If I wanted a large screen I wouldn't buy a netbook. For $50 more I can make that a 300+ GB Hd.
What then? the best netbook on the market is ... not a netbook!?
When that happens something's wrong with your selection criteria.
[Obligatory Car Analogy]So you don't feel the need to distinguish between a motorcyle and a pickup truck?[/Obligatory Car Analogy]
This past weekend, the wife picked up an Acer Aspire One (AO751h) @ Costco for about $330. Came w/ 1GB RAM, 160GB HDD, 11.6" screen, WinXP Home w/ SP3, Atheros 802.11b/g. My impression of it, up until last night when we finally booted it w/ a USB-stick live linux distro was, in a nutshell, "worthless piece of crap that can't stay running more than a few hours".
I mean, quite literally, every few minutes, to every few hours, this new from box thing would just randomly lock hard, no keyboard, touchpad, or even power button response. Unpingable. Needed a battery pull to recover. This is with the from-factory supplied OS (WinXP Home 32-bit, w/ SP3, remember). Even sitting idle, it would do this. With or without any USB devices plugged in. Connected or disconnected from the network. With or without AV software running. With the original or updated BIOS or drivers (newest from Acer's site).
As of last night, booting off a USB-based Debian Lenny, trying to exercise as much of the machine as possible, from memtest86+ to md5summing the entire 160G drive, to just sitting idle all night long, it's _still_ running, as of about an hour ago with no lockups. Go figure. Alas, lenny's too old to have decent ath5k support (not sure that'll even really work), so I wasn't able to connect to our WPA2-protected wireless network, to see if that caused issues.
The only other caveat I've found so far, is that it uses the Intel GMA 500 graphics chipset which...isn't very well supported at all (the only Intel GMA one that isn't). Vesa resolutions are OK, but not 1366x768 native (IIRC, it's coming up 1024x768). A little too blurry/not crisp for me, but the wife seems happy enough, coming from a Thinkpad T30 that looks downright dull in comparison.
I'm not sure I'd get one for myself.
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --H.L. Mencken
Is it just me, or is the windows 7 taskbar much taller (ie consumes more vertical space) than previous versions?
That, combined with thicker titlebars, doesn't make for very efficient use of vertical space on widescreen displays and especially on small netbook displays...
The Ubuntu netbook interface seems far more suited to such devices, it has no bar at the bottom, and the menu bar at the top combines with the titlebar of any open window to use very little of the very limited vertical space on the screen.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Yeah, have to agree here, once you clear a 10" screen imho, it isn't a netbook any longer. Also, if the battery life isn't at least 4hrs, it shouldn't be praised either. I got a netbook because it was small and portable, and I didn't need to be tethered to a wall after two hours of use. I did bump my ram to 2gb, and my hdd to 500gb, and in win7 with the hardware changes I went from about 5.5hrs of typical use to about 4.5... most of that is likely the change in hard drive. Still, my phone's (rooted G1) wifi tethering runs down the phone's battery in less time than my netbook lasts anyway.
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
Could we please stop using the phrases "Face Off" and "Shootout" to spark interest for a simple product comparison. It seems so "SUNDAY! SUNDAY!! SUNDAY!!!"
The game.
The entire -point- of netbooks is that they are small.
Let's be honest- whether or not it counts as an "official" characteristic of a netbook- the other thing associated with them, and as much a raison d'etre for their initial popularity as the size, was the fact that they were *cheap*.
Now that they're pretty much touching the lower-end "ordinary" laptops in both size and price, I'd question whether such machines are actually "netbooks" in the sense that people first associated with the name 18+ months ago. The term has pretty much been massaged out of any meaningful existence by marketers.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
No, netbooks should be graded on price, favoring CHEAP, compared to their mobility.
And if they go for the same price AND they are about the same size. Then why shouldn't you grade on graphics and keyboard usability.
I am a v1ral sig. Plse c0py me and h3lp me spread. Thank y0u?
I never quite understand why I would want a VGA or DVI or any other external graphics slot on a netbook. Seems to defeat the purpose of a netbook. The only thing I can think of that might require that is a presentation, in which case turn it into a PDF and do your presentation using Acrobat on what ever PC happens to be connected to the projector.
I also somewhat struggle with the concept of a RJ45 socket for ethernet, a WiFi connection is perfectly satisfactory for a netbook.
All these external ports make the device more expensive, and prone to failure.
Then again my perfect netbook has a Cortex A9 ARM processor, 1GB of RAM and 8GB of flash, coupled with a 9" screen using the technology from the XO-1, with WiFi and Bluetooth, a few USB sockets, Mac style calculator keyboard, a battery life of 12 hours minimum and cost under $200
In other words, it won in his review because... erm, it has all those attributes that make it not a netbook...
Except when you don't have a WiFi connection.
And I actually have used the VGA socket to connect my netbook to a projector.
And I want a pony.
You're not looking for a netbook. You're also not getting all of those features in the same system.
I never quite understand why I would want a VGA or DVI or any other external graphics slot on a netbook. Seems to defeat the purpose of a netbook.
For me the purpose of a netbook is to be an ultra portable computer to get small amounts of work done ("bite sized tasks") without being a drag to haul around. To that end, it has to interface with whatever I encounter whereever I go. From a clients board room to their server room.
The only thing I can think of that might require that is a presentation, in which case turn it into a PDF and do your presentation using Acrobat on what ever PC happens to be connected to the projector.
So now you have to arrange for there to be a PC connected to the projector. I've been to a lot of meetings where I as the presenter am the only one with a laptop at the meeting. Sure I can pull out my flash stick and ask if someone can grab their laptop... but that's markedly less professional, and wastes time.
Other uses for a VGA port - showing pictures, home movies, watching a movie. Sure I can in all these situations burn CDs or DVDs, but why bother, if I can just plug it in? When we visit the grandparents its so handy to just be able to plug in, and show them stuff. (Actually that's my biggest complaint about the Apple laptops... they all have ridiculous port types that noone else uses - minidvi, mini displayport... so you have have to carry an adapter everywhere you go. That and apple charges stupid amounts of money for these adapters -- THAT is the apple tax.)
As for RJ45 - I think its pretty critical.
1) Its the fall back position, if you don't know the wifi password; or if the router hasn't been setup yet, or if there is a problem with the network. (something I encounter a lot as a network admin)
2) I can't rely on having wifi wherever I go. I can't rely on having a cable either. But between the two, I'm pretty safe.
I suppose I could get a USB-ethernet adapter, but then I'd have to carry it around, and my ideal netbook doesn't require me to carry a bag of parts and dongles and adapters around everywhere I go.
Then again my perfect netbook has a Cortex A9 ARM processor, 1GB of RAM and 8GB of flash, coupled with a 9" screen using the technology from the XO-1, with WiFi and Bluetooth, a few USB sockets, Mac style calculator keyboard, a battery life of 12 hours minimum and cost under $200
Whereas my -ideal- netbook, is probably an atom or equivalent so it can run x86 software, a few usb ports, SD card slot, rj45, vga, and a good old fashioned 9-pin serial port(!!)
For my purposes I could probably drop bluetooth, but it would be a nice bonus. I'd also add a good GPS. (and a power switch for any power hungry module (e.g. wifi, bluetooth, gps modules). 2GB RAM, and I'd bump it to 64GB of Flash so I could dual boot OSes (Windows / Linux). 12 hrs battery would be a godsend, and I'd even accept only getting it while one of gps, bluetooth, and wifi are turned on.
Oh, and it shouldn't get stupidly hot either.
But then I'd be willing to pay $1000+ for it, too. I can't even find a small laptop that meets many of the above specs, never mind all of them.
For me the ideal netbook is a small bundle of connectivity and computing. Price isn't the key factor. Functionality and Size are.
They've been doing this in the automotive market for decades. The 'best' subcompact is a little bigger outside, a little bigger inside, with a little bigger engine.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
The problem is, IMHO, that reviewers don't get what netbooks are for. Or rather, they don't need a netbook, they're given a few netbooks to review at work on a table and so in these conditions all they see is how big and nice the screen is, or how fast the machine is.
They prefer the bigger ones because size isn't an issue to them, they're not going to carry them around, they're just going to test them on a desk so there's nothing inconvenient about the thing being huge. Or to use a car analogy, that's if you're given to review a bunch of very cheap low end cars, you don't care about the price cause you're not broke and you're not paying for it anyways, so of all the el cheapo cars your favourite one is more likely to be the more expensive one. In other words the reviewers can't appreciate what's good about what they're reviewing, because they're reviewing them like another class of products.
You just got troll'd!