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LHC To Start Back Up In November At Half Power

mcgrew writes to mention that the Large Hadron Collider, smasher of particles, will get another chance to prove itself this November. The restart will begin with tests at half power, a mere 7 trillion electron volts (TeV), and ramp up slowly to the designed goal of 14 TeV. "Measurements indicate that some of the electrical connections could not safely handle the amount of current needed to run at the full 14 TeV, so will need to be replaced before dialing up the energy that far. But even 7 TeV is much higher than physicists have ever probed in the laboratory before. The Tevatron accelerator at Fermilab in Batavia, Illinois, is the current record holder, with collisions at 2 TeV."

31 of 110 comments (clear)

  1. Only half by swaq · · Score: 5, Funny

    Good, only half the universe will be destroyed. =)

    1. Re:Only half by tnk1 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Looks like they are right on schedule for their planned full power-up on December 21, 2012.

    2. Re:Only half by epiphani · · Score: 5, Funny

      There is actually a website available here that monitors the situation and gives real-time updates on the status of the LHC.

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      .
    3. Re:Only half by Em+Emalb · · Score: 2, Funny

      Get this "hardon" two bath tubs outside side-by-side and some Levitra* stat!

      *is it Levitra? I don't remember, as I'm not a user of said pills**...yet.

      **YMMV

      --
      Sent from your iPad.
    4. Re:Only half by Woogiemonger · · Score: 4, Funny

      There is actually a website available here that monitors the situation and gives real-time updates on the status of the LHC.

      What's amusing is if you view the page source of that link. There's even a nifty comment there: "if the lhc actually destroys the earth & this page isn't yet updated please email mike@frantic.org to receive a full refund" Going to email Mikey and ask for a refund. Maybe he won't check.

    5. Re:Only half by davester666 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Alternately, if the web site is down, assume the black hole has expanded enough to suck in the web server...

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    6. Re:Only half by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Meh. You have to wait for someone to manually update that page. You'd be better off checking the status yourself with the internal and external webcams.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    7. Re:Only half by rhyder128k · · Score: 2, Funny

      I talked to one of scientists the other day and he said that there's nothing to worry about. He did admit that they had never driven the hardware as hard as this before and kept calling me Gordon though... Bah! All those damn scientists look the same to me.

      --
      Michael Reed, freelance tech writer.
    8. Re:Only half by TheGeniusIsOut · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It is actually fairly simple relativity, the faster an object moves relative to another, the slower its time reference to the other is. Even though relative to each other from an outside viewpoint they seem to be travelling passed each other at greater than the speed of light, Each experiences a time dialation relative to mass and velocity, so in the frame of reference where the particles collide, they are moving much slower than the speed of light due to time taking longer. When the collision occurs, velocity is mostly cancelled out relative to the surrounding environment, and all of the energy that was contained in the high-speed sub-atomic particles is released in a cloud of elementary particles, which recombine into new and interesting matter. It is out of this cloud that the quark-gluon plasma is formed, which in turn is theoretically capable of forming quantum singularities at high enough energy densities. The faster you can get a particle moving, the higher its energy level is, the higher the density of energy will be at moment of collision.

      --
      Ignorance is Bliss -- And the Opposite is True -- Genius is Madness
  2. Temporary! by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 4, Informative

    One thing missing from the summary is that 3.5 TeV/beam is only (hoïpefully) a very temporary setup. The ramp up to 5TeV/beam, or 10 TeV centre of mass energy should be quick rapid if everything works. Going to the full 7 TeV will take longer though.

    1. Re:Temporary! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ... that 3.5 TeV/beam is only (hoÏpefully) ...

      Did anyone else envision one of the three stooges in a lab coat saying "hoyepfully" when they read this?

    2. Re:Temporary! by filesiteguy · · Score: 3, Funny

      I see. So whty're starting off at 3.5 TeV, moving to 5 and 7 TeV. They will get to 10 TeV at one point.

      I wonder if it would be be louder if they turned the dial all the way up to 11 TeV.

    3. Re:Temporary! by Kratisto · · Score: 3, Funny

      And it's like, how much more black hole could it get? And the answer is none. None more black hole.

      --
      Conscience is the inner voice which warns us that someone may be looking.
  3. Re:So, by grub · · Score: 5, Funny


    they've been soldering those wires. They should you thicker ones if they want higher current

    I was at BestBuy a few years ago and heard the blue-shirted drone tell these guys "Look, you have to use Monster Cable for your Hadron collider."

    Did they listen? No!

    .

    --
    Trolling is a art,
  4. Fun with units... by Chris+Burke · · Score: 5, Funny

    It always kinda amuses* me to remember that 7 TeV is equal to ~1 microJoule. So this incredibly massive and complicated machine is required just to reach energies that are a million times less than what I can get by flicking my pinky finger. Though they do put all that energy into a single subatomic particle and carefully guide them into hitting each other right in front of their detectors, while every time I try to flick a proton with my finger I end up hitting a ton of them and they go flying off every which way, so I guess we still need the LHC.

    * Yes I am easily amused, why do you ask?

    --

    The enemies of Democracy are
    1. Re:Fun with units... by blackraven14250 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Maybe it's here to see if we can get smart enough to not destroy ourselves before we destroy ourselves...

    2. Re:Fun with units... by BitterOak · · Score: 2, Informative

      Your post is modded funny, but it is absolutely correct.

      The key point, however, is that when you flick your finger, and end up hitting a huge number of protons, the energy is therefore distributed among all these protons, neutrons, electrons, etc., and so nothing very interesting happens. When all the energy is is concentrated in one collision between two subatomic particles, then very interesting things happen, the most important of which is the creation of a shower of short-lived particles which we don't see in ordinary matter. The most interesting of these particles don't live long enough to even propagate into the detectors, but their decay products do give clues to their existence. It is hoped that the current holy grail of particle physics, the Higgs boson, will be found this way.

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
    3. Re:Fun with units... by burtosis · · Score: 2, Informative
      http://lhc-machine-outreach.web.cern.ch/lhc-machine-outreach/beam.htm

      What you say is very misleading. While that is true on a proton basis, you are neglecting the 115 billion protons per packet, with 2808 packets per beam. This puts your calculation off by 15 orders of magnitude. Unless your finger can flick a typical scobie up to mach 2.

  5. Dammit, will you stop posting LHC articles?! by EWAdams · · Score: 2, Funny

    Now I can't get that song out of my head again. "LHCB sees where the anti-matter's gone. ALICE looks at collisions of lead ions. CMS and ATLAS are two of a kind. They're looking for whatever new particles they can find..."

    Argh!

    --
    I piss off bigots.
  6. Only 7TeV? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'll be more impressed when they turn it up to 11.

  7. It's like a casino... by recharged95 · · Score: 3, Funny

    "LHC To Start Back Up In November At Half Power"

    Any bets that it will not?

    Vegas should start a pool, I'm sure it would be a hit with the betters.

  8. This has never happened before, I swear! by Pluvius · · Score: 3, Funny

    The restart will begin with tests at half power, a mere 7 trillion electron volts (TeV), and ramp up slowly to the designed goal of 14 TeV.

    So I guess you could say that the Large Hadron Collider is being treated for electron dysfunction.

    Rob

  9. Re:Meh. by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 4, Funny

    If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits eighty-eight miles per hour ... you're gonna see some serious shit.

    --
    No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
  10. Re:So, by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Funny

    Did they listen? No!

    Not true. I heard they tried to buy the proper cable but attempted to pay with $2 bills and were promptly arrested ;)

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  11. Re:True, but... by FrangoAssado · · Score: 2, Informative

    There's an excellent video on YouTube of Ed Farhi explaining it in some detail: Why Physicists Need the Large Hadron Collider

    Basically, if all they find is the Higgs boson, that will be a huge disappointment. (Unfortunately, that's the expected outcome.)

  12. Re:How much is an electronvolt? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    One electron volt is equal to 1.60217653(14) x 10^19 joules.

    And they are talking about 7 and 14 Trillion eV which is a bunch of joules! Pretty nice ;)

    You missed by a factor of 10^38

    1 eV = 1.6 x 10^MINUS19 Joules

  13. Re:How much is an electronvolt? by FrangoAssado · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually, 1 electron volt is closer to 10^(-19) Joules, so

    14 TeV = 2.2 x 10^(-6) J

    (When in doubt, ask google! :-))

  14. Re:True, but... by Gromius · · Score: 2, Informative

    Well when you find the Higgs, you want to measure its properties and see if you really have a Higgs and not some random new particle. And then if it is the Higgs, you want to see which Higgs it is. All this takes time and lots and lots of data.

    And unless we are very unlucky, there should hopefully be lots of other werid and wonderful things to find. I'm personally not interested in the Higgs at all but much more exotic things. But for the media, its easier to say "we are looking for X" rather than we are looking for "X, Y, Z oh and dont forget about B but to be honest, we dont know what happens at these energies and would like to find out"

  15. The actual plan by andre.david · · Score: 5, Informative

    Hi,

    We were just briefed at CERN of the plan. It is a plan. Plans can change. With that proviso:

    0 - get the beams circulating at injection energy (from last year's experience, this happened in one week)

    1 - take some collision data at injection energy (450 GeV/c per beam => 900 GeV at center-of-mass or half the Tevatron) (from last year's experience, this could be only another week)

    2 - CERN will observe the annual closure from Dec 19 to Jan 3.

    3 - ramp the energy up to 3.5 TeV/c per beam (7 TeV center-of-mass energy, 3.6x more than the Tevatron)

    4 - take enough data to be competitive with 20 years of Tevatron in some topics

    5 - ramps the energy to 5 TeV/c per beam (10 TeV center-of-mass energy, 5 times more than the Tevatron)

    6 - inject lead-ions and have some Pb+Pb collisions at around 2.75 TeV center-of-mass energy? (that would be 13 times more energy than Brookhaven's RHIC Au+Au)

    7 - shutdown and work on getting the machine ready for 7 TeV/c per beam

    Thank you for your attention.

  16. Re:True, but... by The_Wilschon · · Score: 2, Informative

    On the contrary. The Higgs is discoverable at a 5 sigma significance level (PhysRev standard for "discovery") with about 1 year's worth of data at design energy and luminosity.[1] Furthermore, since people have already worked on analyses, it will only take probably about 6 months to run the analyses on the data and get the results approved by the collaboration. So, with the current startup schedule, barring any more problems, we should expect to see a Higgs discovery paper from CMS and ATLAS in time for the Winter 2011-12 conference cycle.

    [1] http://arxiv.org/abs/0812.1458

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  17. Re:True, but... by The_Wilschon · · Score: 2, Informative

    Supersymmetry is a bigger deal than the Higgs, I would judge. The LHC is expected to find SUSY quite rapidly. Additionally, we will want to measure Higgs properties, perform precision measurements of various things such as the single top cross section, B_s mixing (and CP violation, and maaaaybe CPT violation), the top mass, the W and Z masses, etc. More exotic things include searching for (yes, really) black hole production, large extra dimensions, technicolor (an alternative model to the standard model Higgs mechanism), WIMPs, dark matter, excited states of the W and Z, a fourth fermion generation, glueballs, tetraquarks, pentaquarks, magnetic monopoles, leptoquarks, sterile neutrinos, etc, and other, completely unexpected, new physics.

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