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Linux-Friendly, Internet-Enabled HDTVs?
mrchaotica writes "I'm in the market for a new HDTV (in the $1200-or-slightly-more range, as I won the extended-service-plan lottery and have a Sears store credit). Several of the TVs I've looked at have various 'Internet TV' features (here are Samsung's and Panasonic's). Some manufacturers appear to be rolling their own, while others are partnering with Yahoo (maybe in an attempt to create a 'standard?'). Moreover, these TVs also tend to run Linux under the hood (although their GPL compliance, such as in Panasonic's case, may leave something to be desired). Finally, it's easy to imagine these TVs being able to support video streaming services (YouTube, Netflix, Amazon, etc.) without a set-top box, but I don't know the extent to which that support actually exists. Here are my questions: 1) Is this 'Internet TV' thing going to be a big deal going forward, or just a gimmick? 2) Which manufacturers are most [open standard|Linux|hacker]-friendly? 3) Which TV models have the best support (or best potential and community backing) for this sort of thing?"
I can tell you from experience, using YouTube on my TiVo, that can really be the case. Good looking videos look like SD content. Bad looking videos look like nothing but JPEG artifacts.
I haven't tried any YouTube HD videos, but they should look great.
It's so hard to find any non-throwaway content on YouTube, that I haven't found the feature very useful.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
I recently had to return 3 Sony LCDs of 2 different varieties because of various manufacturing defects and decided to try Samsung. I had recently got a bonus at work so decided to splurge on an backlight with LEDs to avoid the problems that plagued the Sony models I had. It might be a bit more expensive now to get an LED backed display like the one I ended up getting the UN40B6000 model and I've had 0 problems with it so far. I should mention I'm picky as hell about colors and uneven lighting and I think it was worth the extra few bucks. Another bonus is that it runs far cooler than the other LCDs I have seen and given equal components (read capacitors) should last a lot longer.
I also bought one of those Proscan 40" LCDs they had at Costco for 450 bucks and I use that to watch movies in the computer lounge area. Great deal but I would not waste a Blu-Ray player on it. It does have a transformer buzz thing going on all the time but for 450 bucks you can't complain. The only thing I hate about is that it draws 240 watts continuously because of the poor power system design but I just bought one of those wireless xmas-lights plugs and I turn off the whole power strip, warts and all when I'm not using it.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/10/silicon-mountains-allio-42-inch-hdtv-with-built-in-pc-blu-ra/
These TVs already run Linux.
Bad looking videos look like nothing but JPEG artifacts.
True.
I tried it in HD, they look ok, but worse than a good divx dvdrip. The biggest problem for me is the slowness of full-screen playback, when playing on full HD resolution (1080p). It totally sucks! To avoid that, I have to stream the video with the help of a video player with FLV support, like VLC or SMPlayer. Too much of a hassle, for me...
The simple reason you won't get a hacker-friendly HDMI-capable TV is that they can't support HDCP (copy protection) on that.
That said, I'm sure a 3rd party firmware will turn out soon enough for some model, if haven't already.
I bought a new HDTV, so let me share some of my experiences and things to look out for:
1) DLNA. This is *supposed* to be a standard built on top of uPnP, allowing a TV to access a media server on the local network. It sounds good in theory: let your MythTV box stream directly to your TV. In practice, it is not worth very much: the set of video formats that a DLNA TV supports is VERY MUCH smaller than the set of formats you see in practice on your media files. In fact, my Samsung TV cannot even play back content streamed over the network that it can play if that same file is placed on a USB flash drive and plugged directly into the TV. My advice is don't plan on using DLNA, plan on hooking up a real computer.
2) HDMI inputs. Again, my TV has 4 inputs - 3 more than I need. The TV will NOT take the digital audio from an HDMI source - for example, Blu-Ray audio from my PS3 - and pass that audio unmolested through to the optical output connecting the TV to the amplifier. As a result, all I would get from any game or from most Blu-Ray disks was the left and right channels passed on to the stereo - no sub, no surround, no center channel. And the TV does NOT have a six channel audio output - only 2. So I end up having to do all the switching at the stereo, and then pass everything on to the TV - so I really only need one HDMI input.
3) HDMI-CEC. In theory, this allows the TV's remote to control other things, like a Blu-Ray player or a stereo, by passing the command data down the HDMI cable. The PS3 does not support this, nor does my lower-end (but brand new) Sony stereo. Maybe if you buy all of your gear from the same manufacturer, and you buy higher end gear this works, but beware. Plan on either having many remotes, or buying a smart remote and training it (and because the PS3 uses Bluetooth rather than IR, plan on your universal remote not controlling the PS3).
4) Internet through your TV. Two words:
Flash
Javascript.
Your TV will likely not support EITHER of them very well. Again, plan on an external computer. And DON'T plan on using a wireless mouse or keyboard - those things are so range-crippled now that unless you are within a couple of feet of the receiver (and I mean that literally: less than 4 feet!) they won't work (and that's not some no-name keyboard: that's a Logitech).
5) Linux. Yes, my Samsung runs Linux. It is cool to see the GPL in the manual. Other than that - it really matters not at all. The TV application itself is NOT FLOSS, nor is the Linux any kind of a standard distribution: You aren't going to do a "apt-get install $FOO" here. The system doesn't implement any of the "standard" things you might want, like SSH or X. It doesn't even support any file system on external devices other than VFAT (so no larger-than-4G files using EXT2).
All in all, my advice is: treat the TV as a monitor - it's job it to show pixels. Don't expect the TV to make sound - you'll have an external amp or receiver for that. Don't expect the TV to surf the web - you'll want a real computer with a real operating environment for that. Don't expect the TV to play media files - again, you'll want a real computer for that.
Cut those features from the TV, and spend the money you save putting together a media PC as a companion for the TV.
www.eFax.com are spammers
I (the submitter of the article) actually do have a Wii already, so that's a serious possibility. In fact, I've also got the Homebrew Channel and Mplayer-CE installed on it, and can technically watch YouTube and Shoutcast video streams right now (aside from the crashes and bugginess).
I do wish there was a Mozilla or Webkit browser available on the Wii so I wouldn't have to buy Opera, though -- it's not the $5; it's the principle of not wanting to have the purchase tied to the hardware.
And another thing, which I should have mentioned in the article submission: although Netflix and Amazon support would be nice, what I really want is support for Hulu!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Yes, that's exactly it! I should have asked you to write the article submission, apparently...
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linksys_WRT54G_series http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Tutorials http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Samba_Filesystem http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Sshfs http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Nfs Synopsis: 64MB RAM and flash is luxury; you can get samba, nfs, and much more in (at least!) 1/4 that.
--
Given enough personal experience, all stereotypes are shallow.
TV, eep, TV, that's just so wrong. Do not buy a TV, by a large screen display and a dumbed down PC (still way smarter than an idiot box). Add a couple of dvd burners, a couple of very large hardisks to the PC and Mythbuntu and each time you play a DVD, that you have legally bought on special, daft to pay full price, especially when there are some many and you can pay quarter of the price on special basically paying for the convenience, a rip them to the hard disk when you play them for the first time, creating a media juke box.
Of course with a full Mythbuntu box, you also have a secure family file server, a mail server, you can stream from the web and, if you really want to (it is becoming rather pointless now days) add a digital tuner card or two too your PC.
Strangely enough not only do you end up with a way more powerful and flexible media centre, you save a lot of money in the process, some where between 50 percent and 80 percent. Too squeeze the most out of your investment you have to do a bit of fair bit of research, as I do not know of any places that sell optimumly configured, ready to go mythbuntu boxes.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
This isn't really insightful so much as misinformed. I recently found the DownloadHelper extension for Firefox, which makes it easy to grab flash videos from websites in general. Using it reveals that when applicable, youtube actually provides medium quality 1280*720 video using the H.264 codec. I've only seen one video that is provided in this format - the bitrate for that one is around 240kbps, based on the file size minus the size of the audio data.
In addition to morse, hams are under the government's requirement not to use any sort of encryption - including coding schemes that aren't encryption at all but just something that the FCC doesn't yet have equipment to read.
For instance: Back in the '50s or so ASCII teletype machines at 110 bps were coming on the surplus market - but the hams were still limited to the WW II vintage 5-bit badot code at 60 bps. "American National Code for Information Interchange" - but the hams, who were supposed to be experimenters at the cutting edge weren't allowed to use it. (Apparently the FCC didn't want to buy new teletypes so they weren't interested in adopting the ham proposals to allow the code.)
What finally broke the ice: Irv Hoff and one of his buddies built (in the days of soldering discrete transistors together to make logic) a device to convert ASCII to and from morse (which had no speed limit) and transmitted it using FSK at some hysterical speed. Of course the FCC came after them for using an illegal coding - and they said "Illegal? It's MORSE! Just tape it and slow it down." (Which they did, and were able to read it.)
The rules were changed to allow ASCII at reasonable speeds shortly after.
In addition to coding rules, there are (or were) bans on any commercial traffic, limits on "obscene" language, limits on talking with people in certain countries, and requirements that an operator be managing and monitoring the traffic with limited exceptions for automated radios. (Where's the first amendment when you need it?)
This stuff makes it really hard to do things like forward internet traffic over ham radio: Any given packet might violate one or more of those rules. Encryption, at least for digital signatures, is required these days for authentication and other defenses against identity theft. Any new protocol constitutes a new coding. Etc.
Why should a hobbiest bust his butt to obtain a license to communicate under such draconian rules, when the internet and unlicensed-band wireless systems like WiFi serve most of the purposes so much better and with these limitations?
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way