Linux-Friendly, Internet-Enabled HDTVs?

mrchaotica writes "I'm in the market for a new HDTV (in the $1200-or-slightly-more range, as I won the extended-service-plan lottery and have a Sears store credit). Several of the TVs I've looked at have various 'Internet TV' features (here are Samsung's and Panasonic's). Some manufacturers appear to be rolling their own, while others are partnering with Yahoo (maybe in an attempt to create a 'standard?'). Moreover, these TVs also tend to run Linux under the hood (although their GPL compliance, such as in Panasonic's case, may leave something to be desired). Finally, it's easy to imagine these TVs being able to support video streaming services (YouTube, Netflix, Amazon, etc.) without a set-top box, but I don't know the extent to which that support actually exists. Here are my questions: 1) Is this 'Internet TV' thing going to be a big deal going forward, or just a gimmick? 2) Which manufacturers are most [open standard|Linux|hacker]-friendly? 3) Which TV models have the best support (or best potential and community backing) for this sort of thing?"

Comments

Re:Youtube on your TV?

[MBCook]

I can tell you from experience, using YouTube on my TiVo, that can really be the case. Good looking videos look like SD content. Bad looking videos look like nothing but JPEG artifacts.

I haven't tried any YouTube HD videos, but they should look great.

It's so hard to find any non-throwaway content on YouTube, that I haven't found the feature very useful.

I have a LED-backed Samsung UN40B6000

[linzeal]

I recently had to return 3 Sony LCDs of 2 different varieties because of various manufacturing defects and decided to try Samsung. I had recently got a bonus at work so decided to splurge on an backlight with LEDs to avoid the problems that plagued the Sony models I had. It might be a bit more expensive now to get an LED backed display like the one I ended up getting the UN40B6000 model and I've had 0 problems with it so far. I should mention I'm picky as hell about colors and uneven lighting and I think it was worth the extra few bucks. Another bonus is that it runs far cooler than the other LCDs I have seen and given equal components (read capacitors) should last a lot longer.

I also bought one of those Proscan 40" LCDs they had at Costco for 450 bucks and I use that to watch movies in the computer lounge area. Great deal but I would not waste a Blu-Ray player on it. It does have a transformer buzz thing going on all the time but for 450 bucks you can't complain. The only thing I hate about is that it draws 240 watts continuously because of the poor power system design but I just bought one of those wireless xmas-lights plugs and I turn off the whole power strip, warts and all when I'm not using it.

Re:Is there such a thing

[cpereda_yahoo.com]

http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/10/silicon-mountains-allio-42-inch-hdtv-with-built-in-pc-blu-ra/

hacker-friendly HDMI-capable TV can't support HDCP

[Anonymous Coward]

The simple reason you won't get a hacker-friendly HDMI-capable TV is that they can't support HDCP (copy protection) on that.

That said, I'm sure a 3rd party firmware will turn out soon enough for some model, if haven't already.

My experiences

[wowbagger]

I bought a new HDTV, so let me share some of my experiences and things to look out for:

1) DLNA. This is *supposed* to be a standard built on top of uPnP, allowing a TV to access a media server on the local network. It sounds good in theory: let your MythTV box stream directly to your TV. In practice, it is not worth very much: the set of video formats that a DLNA TV supports is VERY MUCH smaller than the set of formats you see in practice on your media files. In fact, my Samsung TV cannot even play back content streamed over the network that it can play if that same file is placed on a USB flash drive and plugged directly into the TV. My advice is don't plan on using DLNA, plan on hooking up a real computer.

2) HDMI inputs. Again, my TV has 4 inputs - 3 more than I need. The TV will NOT take the digital audio from an HDMI source - for example, Blu-Ray audio from my PS3 - and pass that audio unmolested through to the optical output connecting the TV to the amplifier. As a result, all I would get from any game or from most Blu-Ray disks was the left and right channels passed on to the stereo - no sub, no surround, no center channel. And the TV does NOT have a six channel audio output - only 2. So I end up having to do all the switching at the stereo, and then pass everything on to the TV - so I really only need one HDMI input.

3) HDMI-CEC. In theory, this allows the TV's remote to control other things, like a Blu-Ray player or a stereo, by passing the command data down the HDMI cable. The PS3 does not support this, nor does my lower-end (but brand new) Sony stereo. Maybe if you buy all of your gear from the same manufacturer, and you buy higher end gear this works, but beware. Plan on either having many remotes, or buying a smart remote and training it (and because the PS3 uses Bluetooth rather than IR, plan on your universal remote not controlling the PS3).

4) Internet through your TV. Two words:
Flash
Javascript.
Your TV will likely not support EITHER of them very well. Again, plan on an external computer. And DON'T plan on using a wireless mouse or keyboard - those things are so range-crippled now that unless you are within a couple of feet of the receiver (and I mean that literally: less than 4 feet!) they won't work (and that's not some no-name keyboard: that's a Logitech).

5) Linux. Yes, my Samsung runs Linux. It is cool to see the GPL in the manual. Other than that - it really matters not at all. The TV application itself is NOT FLOSS, nor is the Linux any kind of a standard distribution: You aren't going to do a "apt-get install $FOO" here. The system doesn't implement any of the "standard" things you might want, like SSH or X. It doesn't even support any file system on external devices other than VFAT (so no larger-than-4G files using EXT2).

All in all, my advice is: treat the TV as a monitor - it's job it to show pixels. Don't expect the TV to make sound - you'll have an external amp or receiver for that. Don't expect the TV to surf the web - you'll want a real computer with a real operating environment for that. Don't expect the TV to play media files - again, you'll want a real computer for that.

Cut those features from the TV, and spend the money you save putting together a media PC as a companion for the TV.

Re:My experiences

[chefmonkey]

Just another perspective on wireless keyboard and mice: your experience mirrors mine, EXCEPT for Bluetooth devices. Our main TV right now has a Mac Mini hooked up to it, using an Apple Bluetooth keyboard and mouse. Batteries in both are going on 6 months of pretty heavy use, and they still work from the front lawn (!), about 50 feet from the computer.

The Logitech Bluetooth keyboard and mouse have similar range on them, but scream through batteries at a terrifying pace.

Re:It's a TV!!

[Trelane]

Yes, it may be Linux inside, but it's Linux running on 64 MB of RAM, 64 MB of Flash, and with most of /usr/bin deleted to save space Expecting it to have Samba or NFS is actually quite a bit more ignorant than the grandparent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linksys_WRT54G_series http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Tutorials http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Samba_Filesystem http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Sshfs http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Nfs Synopsis: 64MB RAM and flash is luxury; you can get samba, nfs, and much more in (at least!) 1/4 that.