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Chevy Volt Rated At 230 mpg In the City
necro81 writes "General Motors, emerging from bankruptcy, today announced that its upcoming plug-in hybrid vehicle, the Volt, will have an EPA rating of 230 mpg for city driving (about 98 km/L). The unprecedented rating, the first in triple digits, is the result of a new (draft) methodology for calculating the 'gas' mileage for vehicles that operate primarily or extensively on electricity. The Volt, due out late next year, can drive approximately 40 miles on its Li-Ion battery pack, after which a gasoline engine kicks in to provide additional electricity to charge the battery. Running off the gasoline engine yields approximately 50 mpg. Of course, the devil's in the details, because the conversion of grid-based electricity to gasoline-mileage is imprecise." Now we know the meaning of the mysterious "230" viral marketing campaign.
Hardly vaporware. Its in production.
"Give someone a program, frustrate them for a day... Teach someone to program, frustrate them for a lifetime."
Look at the testing yourself and see the potential loopholes. There's no reason to guess here. The information is available.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Nissan said last week that its all-electric vehicle, the Leaf, which comes out in late 2010, would get 367 m.p.g., using the same E.P.A. standards. so don't worry, the volt is already 137 mpg behind the competition
Everybody seems to think I'm lazy I don't mind, I think they're crazy
I'm supposed to believe that, in 2 years of hybrid development, you've developed a production vehicle that will get almost *5 TIMES* the gas mileage of Toyota's hybrid model (that they've been developing and improving on for over 12 years)?
No, you're supposed to read the summary at the very least and understand that it's talking about an EPA-established conversion from electricity usage to equivalent gasoline consumption for EVs. Regardless of the particulars of the method, it's no surprise that this number would be much higher for something running purely off an electric motor vs. the Prius which is using its ICE most of the time even for short trips.
So if a guy drives every day back and forth to work, less than 40 miles, he's only using the plug-in electricity. But the GM exec's aren't counting that electricity he's using, only his actual gasoline used on occasional longer trips, towards the "Miles Per Gallon" rating. I guess GM thinks that people don't pay for their electricity, and that electricity doesn't come from power plants that burn fossil fuels too.
According to GM, I guess if I never go on longer trips, my Volt will be getting infinity miles per gallon.
No, Smartiac, they are counting the electricity you use. The value is only for short trips that solely use electricity. It isn't infinity because they are in fact trying to account for that electricity, but put it in terms of the standard MPG. That conversion metric has a whole host of problems with it, but it isn't ludicrous on its face. EVs are extremely efficient, and power plant electricity generation is extremely efficient compared to the ICEs in automobiles. So whatever reasonable conversion you come up with, that's probably in the ballpark.
The MPG will be much lower for longer trips because there they actually have to burn actual gas. But even that is 50mpg (again using the EPA guidelines which aren't perfect for normal cars either).
The enemies of Democracy are
From The Atlantic: GM's Volt Offers Amazing Mileage, But At What Cost?
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Factor in battery replacements. Unless GM has also made a lifespan breakthrough in Li-Ion battery technology, so that you can use the same battery pack for 10 years of harsh all-conditions charging and discharging.
Actually, you don't have to factor in battery replacements because GM is supplying the Volt with a 10 year 150,000 mile warranty on the Li batteries.
> It's just like the people who drive "green" cars like the Prius. Do they not
> realize that the car will only run for about 100,000 miles before they have
> to replace some ridiculously expensive component? "But it's for the
> environment!" they'll claim. So the majority of consumers in the USA are
> concerned with "the environment" over their pocketbook? I think not...
Source please? Our neighbors purchased the first Prius in our metro area, and Toyota gave them a thank-you gift of a lifetime warranty so they have no incentive to under-report problems. Their Prius is around 120k and has had zero major maintenance required. Including batteries. That's pretty typical of Prius experience I have read about.
sPh
Gray Davis did.
The example that illustrates the point. As the wiki points out, Davis would have been happy to stop the brownouts, only the only clear way he could have done that is by removing price caps on long-term contracts that had been established through California's energy market de-regulation (CA de-regulated its power grid, but established caps as some sort of hedge against.. er... power generation companies and market makers abusing their position by creating artificial scarcity).
It's sort of a bad example, because none of the brownouts at that time were caused by a lack of generator capacity; it was all caused by Enron and Reliant calling up their plants and telling them to call in sick for the day, causing spot prices for power to rise on account of lower supply, and calling their other plants and telling them to ship their capacity to Nevada, so they could (1) arbitrage cheap Nevada power into expensive California power and (2) sell transmission line capacity to themselves, causing the price of transmission capacity to go up and making the cost of piping the California poer to Nevada and back even more profitable.
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
A good heater shouldn't require more than around 1.5 kilowatts, the size of a space heater that can keep a small room toasty. The Volt's engine is rated at 111 kilowatts.
So running the heater shouldn't cost more than around 1% of your total range.
That is NOT the only real difference. The biggest difference here is that there is NO variable timed engine. No cam lobes. No transmission. Just a gas powered electric generator. There is NO hybrid mode. This vehicle operators only on power from the batteries. When you take it over a certain speed, the generator kicks on to keep the batteries juiced. This decouples the generator from the power source. Also, it's not a little car. It's a 4 door sedan that gets 50 mpg on the highway.
Factor in battery replacements. Unless GM has also made a lifespan breakthrough in Li-Ion battery technology, so that you can use the same battery pack for 10 years of harsh all-conditions charging and discharging.
Actually, you don't have to factor in battery replacements because GM is supplying the Volt with a 10 year 150,000 mile warranty on the Li batteries.
Doesn't this just shift the burden of pollution and disposal to a different party? The net effect is unchanged. Li-Ion batteries use a lot things that aren't good for the environment and a lot of energy to do so. Someone else is using more energy so you can use less. Net of zero.
Give me a TDI motor any day over this hybrid stuff.
Bearded Dragon
Electricity prices are already going to "skyrocket" if cap and trade goes through. Obama "guaranteed" it.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
The SI unit you might be looking for is Joule. Every form of energy can be brought back to Joule - be that electrical energy or chemical (potential) energy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule
GM already makes a plethora of small diesel powered cars, just not for the US market. European Opels/Vauxhalls aren't bad at all. As I've said before, my 7 passenger 2008 Vauxhall Zafira 1.9 CDTi would get 35-40mpg (US)when fully loaded on a road trip. That's better than most econoboxes are advertised at here. As an American, I was disgusted that I couldn't legally own that car in the US. Adding insult to injury was seeing all the GM logos on the windows.
Side note: GM has released the Opel/Vauxhall Astra in the US as the Saturn Astra. However, they made it suck by putting the worst engines and transmissions in it and giving it practically no options.
Since the US DOE says we have about 1087 Gigawatt total production capacity this suggest we will be short by 2 thirds.
BZZZT, try again! You mixed up gigawatts and gigawatt hours. That's 3,000 gigawatt *hours* per million vehicles per year. The US consumes about 4,000 terawatt hours per year.
"99 dead duelists of Dios on the wall. 99 dead duelists of Dios! Take one's ring, pass it around..."
1) "A lot of things that aren't good for the environment"? Name one. Here's a rough recipe for your typical LiP cell. 1) Lithium carbonate (as found in mineral water); 2) Phosphoric acid (as found in soft drinks) 3) Iron powder; 4) Sugar (regular old sucrose, burned to make the cathode's carbon binding); 5) Graphite or amorphous carbon (for the anode); 6) A porous polyethylene membrane; 6) One of several typically nontoxic electrolytes (BYD's pres likes to show off by drinking his company's electrolyte); 7) casing, wiring, etc.
Which of those do you have a problem with? The only reason you can't throw traditional (laptop-style) li-ions in the trash is because of the cobalt and the fire hazard. LiPs and manganese spinels (what almost all EV makers are using, with the notable exception of Tesla) have neither. Plus, they're all setting up systems for their packs to be recycled -- not because of either any particular value to the raw materials nor any significant environmental consequences to their disposal, but to assuage the fears of people like you.
2) "Give me a TDI motor any day": Oh please. Even the cleanest commercial diesels, like the Jetta TDI, can barely meet modern US emissions regs. Show me a single SULEV diesel. Heck, have they even managed to make a commercial LEV diesel yet? Diesels emit less CO2 than gas cars, sure. But EVs emit less CO2 *and* less of every other pollutant except PM. And, the pollution that they do emit is displaced, no longer at street level in crowded areas, but at altitude and generally in less population dense areas.
Plus, that's on our current grid. Electricity is getting cleaner (42% of new capacity added to the grid last year was wind, and most of the rest, natural gas), while oil is getting dirtier (increasing share of syncrude and high-energy sources as the easy-to-get stuff gets used up -- think Athabasca bitumen)
"99 dead duelists of Dios on the wall. 99 dead duelists of Dios! Take one's ring, pass it around..."