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Microsoft, Nokia Team To Add Mobile Office Apps To Phones

CWmike writes "On the same day a court banned sales of Microsoft Office for PCs, Microsoft and Nokia said they are working together to put Microsoft Office on Nokia handsets. It's a move that should give Microsoft leverage against Google and others that are attacking its Office business with free or low-priced Web apps. The aim of the deal is to bring an application called Microsoft Office Mobile to Nokia's Symbian devices, they said. They will also do the same for other Microsoft communications, collaboration and device-management software. The applications will be available first on Nokia's E-series phones, but eventually will extend to other Nokia handsets. The Microsoft-Nokia deal brings two competitors together, but could spell the end of Windows Mobile. Gartner analyst Nick Jones said he is becoming 'more concerned' about the future for Windows Mobile and added in a blog today that Windows Mobile 7 could be Microsoft's last update of the product."

154 comments

  1. So much for ... by neonprimetime · · Score: 2, Funny
    1. Re:So much for ... by Mordok-DestroyerOfWo · · Score: 3, Funny

      I hope they bring Clippy back!

      "I see you're trying to drunk dial your ex. Would you like some help with that?"

      --
      "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
    2. Re:So much for ... by mollog · · Score: 4, Interesting

      For many years, Microsoft has had the nasty habit of breaking their own software and data formats to force customers to upgrade. It seems that corporations are finally pushing back and refusing the upgrade cycle. This was happening on a large scale with XP, mostly because Vista required a hardware upgrade, and because the 'upgrade' cycle happening during a time of budget tightening.

      Really, Microsoft has been cannibalizing their own business for profits. They don't have the ability to innovate and they have been resorting to forcing upgrades on their customers to maintain revenue. It's too bad, they had a lot of money and they were in the best position to leverage their strategic position to branch into new businesses. But, they didn't have the ability to invest the money in new technology and make it pay.

      So many obvious opportunities simply slipped through Microsoft's fingers. They could have owned browsing, searching and the internet in general, they could have taken over business software, they could have owned gaming. Microsoft, like GM, seems to have gotten too big without redefining themselves.

      The end of Microsoft will be good for software development and for consumers. Microsoft has been a tax on computing and a hindrance to innovation. Windows 7 should be the end.

      --
      Best regards.
    3. Re:So much for ... by PRMan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually Windows 7 seems quite innovative. I am really liking it, and I hated Vista.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    4. Re:So much for ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you're a retard, because they're basically the same thing.

    5. Re:So much for ... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 0, Troll

      Actually Windows 7 seems quite innovative. I am really liking it, and I hated Vista.

      They're borrowing a lot from Apple, but yeah, I agree, Windows 7 has got a few things to brag about for XP users that haven't upgraded to Vista. I'm plesantly surprised and happy. It was a very good move of Microsoft to provide a free year-long trial version.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    6. Re:So much for ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Waldorf: Actually, I hope Windows 7 is much more innovative than Vista.

      Statler: More innovative?

      Waldorf: Yeah, I hope it will innovate in being the last one!

      W & S: LOL!

    7. Re:So much for ... by Zak3056 · · Score: 4, Informative

      For many years, Microsoft has had the nasty habit of breaking their own software and data formats to force customers to upgrade.

      Citation needed.

      The standard office file formats (i.e. doc, xls, etc) were the same from Office 97 to Office 2003. The Office 2007 file formats (docx, xlsx, etc) are readable and writable by Office 2000 or later. Contrast this with a company like Autodesk, where the file formats change every three years (in a thinly disguised attempt to sell upgrades) and I find it hard to agree with the statement you make above.

      --
      What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?
    8. Re:So much for ... by dhavleak · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's a whole truck load of BS you just posted there my friend.

      For many years, Microsoft has had the nasty habit of breaking their own software and data formats to force customers to upgrade.

      If anything, MS bends over backwards to maintain backwards compatibility. Vista was their first OS in which you couldn't run DOS apps (at least w/o third party s/w). Office 2k7 is completely able to consume/publish in Office 2k3 formats. Office 2k3 is completely able to consume/publish in Office 2k7 formats. 64-bit Vista and 64-bit Win7 can still run your 32-bit Windows apps. Office 2k3, Office 2k7, Vista, Win2k3, WS08, XP etc. are all still supported (some are past their 5-year mainstream support lifecycles but are in extended support). What the hell are you talking about???

      This was happening on a large scale with XP, mostly because Vista required a hardware upgrade, and because the 'upgrade' cycle happening during a time of budget tightening.

      Prove it. You're running your mouth off in a public forum so be prepared to back your claims up. Large scale? Because of a hardware upgrade? Time of budget tightening? And MS considered all the factors when designing for Vista? References please!!

      Really, Microsoft has been cannibalizing their own business for profits.

      Nothing insightful there -- when you own 90+% of the market, you are your own biggest competitor. But cannibalizing? Please explain? They were eating their own sales to get more of their own sales? That doesn't even make sense!

      they have been resorting to forcing upgrades

      How did they force people to upgrade? References? Sources? Anything? Did they hold a gun to someone's head? Did they prematurely curtail the mainstream support of some product? Did they decide to forego an extended support lifecycle of some product? What on god's green earth are you talking about??

      The end of Microsoft will be good for software development and for consumers.

      There's absolutely no proof / logic by which you can make that claim definitively. No matter what you say, there will be counter-arguments that can be made. So understand that your view is simply colored by your MS hatred.

      Microsoft has been a tax on computing and a hindrance to innovation.

      This is slashdot, so I guess you'll get modded +5 Insightful for this kind of unsubstantiated drivel..

      Windows 7 should be the end.

      ???

      You should be the one to decide that right?...

      Just because you hate MS for some irrational reasons, doesn't mean they will stop trying their best. If you dislike Windows, you have other options that you can exercise. But pretending that Windows is somehow broken or a dying product is, well, typical slashdot trolling.

    9. Re:So much for ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft has had the nasty habit of breaking their own software and data formats to force customers to upgrade

      Really? I've been using XP for longer than any other software product I care to remember.
      Regarding formats (and this is a piss poor example), it looks like the ol' classic ".doc" format has lasted longer than anyone likes to admit. I remember finding an old floppy disk a couple of months back, with a couple of documents on it. Probably Word '97 docs, and opened fine in Word '07

      because the 'upgrade' cycle happening during a time of budget tightening.

      Nope. Vista was released prior to the credit crunch, not afterwards.

      They don't have the ability to innovate

      Office 2007's ribbon is/was fairly innovative. Now everyone including OO.o are copying. I'm not saying MS are great, but I give them credit it where it's due.
      Sure, learning the ribbon took sometime, but it's a huge improvement. The previous menus style looks archaic to me know.

      they didn't have the ability to invest the money in new technology and make it pay

      Are you just pulling these facts out of your arse? MS, a software company, have worked their way into many living rooms with the Xbox.

      They could have owned browsing, searching and the internet in general,

      Browsing - IE has the majority of the market share, and has done so for too long.
      Searching - Google knocked everyone's socks-off when they blew-up. There's been no serious competition in searching for years, except for MS' new drive with Bing.
      Internet - how on earth does anyone get to "own" the net. Any company which tries to pin down the net, will get shot.

      Windows 7 should be the end.

      Year of the Linux desktop soon?

    10. Re:So much for ... by jhol13 · · Score: 2, Informative

      The standard office file formats (i.e. doc, xls, etc) were the same from Office 97 to Office 2003.

      No they were not. I still remember how Office 97 could not read all files created by Office 2003.

    11. Re:So much for ... by mgblst · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I don't think that word means what you think it means. Innovate \= copy from everyone else.

      Innovative does not mean something you haven't seen before.

    12. Re:So much for ... by mvdwege · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Windows 7 has got a few things to brag about

      Such as?

      Empty assertions are just that: empty assertions. Forgive me, but I have seen too much astroturfing at each Windows release to take these kinds of statements seriously. Unless you can actually name improvements, I'm just going to assume that Windows 7 is what every release since Win2k has been: more make-up on the pig.

      Mart

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    13. Re:So much for ... by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      If anything, MS bends over backwards to maintain backwards compatibility.

      I keep hearing that.

      I also keep hearing tales of hardware no longer working because the driver model changed yet again.

      I also keep hearing astroturfers tell me that applications that break after an 'upgrade' to the newest Windows are the fault of the application writers for not sticking to MS' rules.

      And yet, you guys keep reassuring me that Microsoft bends over backwards to maintain compatibility. Welcome to Microsoft Newspeak, now even more doubleplusgood.

      Mart

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    14. Re:So much for ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think slashdotters vastly overestimate the amount of astroturfing that goes on. Sure, in some cases it really is going on. But it's one of those things that you can't readily disprove, and therefore there's no negative reinforcement to the belief, and therefore that belief is spread as a net that captures everybody who states an opinion in any way different from their your own.

      A funny thing is that make-up/lipstick on a pig isn't any more substantive than "a few things to brag about". It's just a far more anti-social form of empty assertion. Your post bleeds condescension yet is blind to the hypocrisy of it.

      Here's what *I* like, off the top of my head.:

      Prefer to XP
      A whole lot of little things that annoyed me that were fixed in Vista are still fixed. Yes, this isn't substantive. Friggin' shoot me. It's been a long time since I was on XP day-to-day, and I've barely ever used Win2000 (I was on Win98 before XP).
      DWM helps with tearing and other glitches.
      Graphics drivers are (mainly) userland, so a video card driver crash doesn't take down the system
      Integrated inline search.
      Frankly, the aesthetics. I know that isn't popular in slashdot-land. Also, so help me, I like the integrated gadgets.

      Prefer to Vista
      UAC pops up fewer times (when it's appropriate, basically), and the dimming, if you still have it set, is instant on my machines rather than having a couple second's delay.
      XP Mode. Obviously not such a huge advantage over XP :)

      Prefer to XP & Vista
      The new taskbar & especially aero peek. This is big for me. I don't care who anybody thinks it's copied from, it really doesn't matter.
      Perceived responsiveness. It just seems like it has fewer mini-hangs. I definitely feel less frustrated working with a clean Win7 than a clean Vista or a clean XP. That is, of course, subjective.
      The notification area at the bottom right is finally fixed.
      DirectAccess is easier than what I had been using to log in to work.
      Some of these things could be emulated to some extent by various freeware software on XP. I like that I don't have to go through the trouble of finding it, figuring out which ones are not shit, learning their conflicting ways, etc.. Anything that some utility still does better, I can still use it.
      As a developer, the fact that Powershell is directly integrated. It also has an IDE (ISE, it says -- Integrated Scripting Environment).
      Also, some of the new APIs are neat, even if it's only when I write quick throwaway software for myself or my family. And the ones Vista has over XP, also kind of neat. Obviously not something to delve into on a larger scale until XP is finally gone.
      Comes with IE8, which is good news even if you hate IE, because it's not IE6 or IE7. Every user on Windows 7 is a user that has at least a CSS 2.1 compliant browser, which pushes us all forward. Clinging to XP retail/corporate availability essentially entails clinging to IE6 in a practical sense.
      I haven't tried it yet, but support for heterogeneous multiple graphics card solutions is interesting to me from the perspective of still being able to put an older graphics card to some use when I'm due for an upgrade.
      There are lots of little things here, too, like the way that changing the desktop background shows up as your mouse hovers, giving you a preview of what you'll get and making the transition pleasant. Do not pull this out of context, this is hardly a reason to upgrade to Windows 7. It's clearly one example of the "little things" which have a long and boring list which I like.

      A last thing is that Vista had me pissed off for many months while NVidia's driver's sucked for it on unbelievable levels; I haven't encountered such monumental driver suckiness through the Beta, the RC, and now RTM. That really did ruin Vista for me for a long time (and I suspect for a significant portion of the people who love to hate Vista, really).

      The biggest one, though, is the perceived res

    15. Re:So much for ... by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      Summarizing your long post: cosmetic changes. More lipstick on the pig.

      Mart

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    16. Re:So much for ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      No, they are not. I can send you hundreds of Office XP .ppt and .doc files that cannot be rendered properly by Office 2003 and Office 2007.
      I can send you Office 2007 .doc (not .docx, but .doc saved in 2003 compatibility mode) files that can't be read by Office 2003. I have lots of .doc files from Office 2000 that can't be rendered by Office 2003 and 2007. It is hard evidence. It is true.

      This may be not intentional, but Microsoft's own formats are steaming pile of shit, and they can't read them themselves even with new software. This is why we need to scrap them all and opt for compact ODF format, not 6000 pages OOXML and alike specifications.

    17. Re:So much for ... by logixoul · · Score: 1

      No, they are hardly cosmetic changes.

      (Someone had to call you out)

    18. Re:So much for ... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Windows 7 has got a few things to brag about

      Such as?

      Empty assertions are just that: empty assertions. Forgive me, but I have seen too much astroturfing at each Windows release to take these kinds of statements seriously. Unless you can actually name improvements, I'm just going to assume that Windows 7 is what every release since Win2k has been: more make-up on the pig.

      Mart

      Great. I'm vague about Win7, so I'm astroturfing. But if I talk about Win7, I'll be astroturfing. If I take the time to tell you the improvements I've noticed between XP and 7, you'll say "lipstick on a pig".

      Am I an 'astroturfer' or are you a 'hater'? Frankly I hope you just think astroturfer means "somebody experienced with a product who doesn't hate it like the GroupThink thinks you should."

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    19. Re:So much for ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I also keep hearing tales of hardware no longer working because the driver model changed yet again.

      For the second time in Windows 20+ year history, for security reasons. How long is the average binary driver interface in Linux stable, again? On the order of days?

      I also keep hearing astroturfers tell me that applications that break after an 'upgrade' to the newest Windows are the fault of the application writers for not sticking to MS' rules.

      It's true. If you don't follow the published APIs, and decide to get 'clever' with some hidden ones, you should expect it could break at any time. If you do this, and you're not large enough for Microsoft to test against, you're SOL, but it's your own damn fault.

      And yet, you guys keep reassuring me that Microsoft bends over backwards to maintain compatibility. Welcome to Microsoft Newspeak, now even more doubleplusgood.

      Because even if you bend over backwards to maintain compatibility, you don't always get to keep it. Compare with Mac's numerous significant breaks of compatibility, or Linux refusal to have a stable Binary API. It's only newspeak if you don't have any understanding of the issue whatsoever.

    20. Re:So much for ... by cheftw · · Score: 1

      An astroturfer would say that!

      --
      Always back up, never back down. ---- Think you're cool 'cos your uid is prime? Take mine, modulo the one digit integers
    21. Re:So much for ... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Heh. I useta have a sig that said: "What's the difference between a Linux Zealot and a Microsoft Fan Boy? The Fan Boy read the article!"

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    22. Re:So much for ... by dhavleak · · Score: 1

      If anything, MS bends over backwards to maintain backwards compatibility.

      I keep hearing that.
      I also keep hearing tales of hardware no longer working because the driver model changed yet again.

      See what I mean?
      1) XP used the XPDM driver model. Vista bent over backwards by supporting it. Read that again. Vista worked with XPDM drivers that were meant for XP. Aero required WDDM drivers -- but Vista would still work with XPDM drivers. What the hell are you talking about??
      2) XPDM drivers used to run in kernel mode. Poorly implemented XPDM drivers could cause a BSOD. MS addressed it by moving to WDDM in which most of the driver code is running in user mode. The WDDM driver is a huge improvement. So you see -- MS improved things, and bent over backwards to maintain backwards compatibility. XPDM is only not supported in Win7 (afaik). That's a 3-year overlap. What the hell are you talking about?? Are you saying MS should not try to improve things? Or are you going to whine/troll/astroturf about any silly thing that comes to mind??
      ..

      I also keep hearing astroturfers tell me that applications that break after an 'upgrade' to the newest Windows are the fault of the application writers for not sticking to MS' rules.

      You're probably referring to UAC here. I guess you want an insecure OS? Besides, sticking to MS's app development guidelines even for XP would have ensured that you would not get broken by UAC. If you're referring to some developer using some internal/unpublished API -- well, what did they expect? So I repeat -- what are you talking about?
      ..

      And yet, you guys keep reassuring me that Microsoft bends over backwards to maintain compatibility.

      I'm not reassuring you about anything because I don't give a fuck what OS you use. You apparently don't like people using Windows. Just be prepared with more than FUD next time, because every once in a while someone will call you out when you post BS.
      ..

      Welcome to Microsoft Newspeak, now even more doubleplusgood.

      Welcome to Slashdot Newspeak, now even more doubleplusgood. See how that works?

    23. Re:So much for ... by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      I didn't call you an astroturfer, now didn't I? I just said I had seen too much astroturfing to take any praise, especially unqualified praise, seriously.

      Why are you so defensive about that?

      Mart

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    24. Re:So much for ... by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      I have absolutely no problem with people using Windows. I happen to think that Windows is a lousy OS, full of minor and major faults that nobody ever seems to acknowledge, while picking at every minor fault in Linux or OSX.

      I do think that the kind of unqualified praise that appears in Slashdot threads like these is either by dumb fanbois or astroturfers. And if you check my posting history, you'll see that I have little patience for fanbois of any OS.

      Mart

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    25. Re:So much for ... by dhavleak · · Score: 1

      I have absolutely no problem with people using Windows.

      Then why did your post contain non-factual FUD?
      .

      I happen to think that Windows is a lousy OS, full of minor and major faults that nobody ever seems to acknowledge

      (1) See what I mean about unsubstantiated FUD? (2) When there's a discussion of some of those flaws feel free to contribute. For now, the stuff you pointed out was utter fucking bullshit. (3) Your claim that "nobody ever seems to acknowledge" Windows' flaws is again, utter fucking bullshit.
      .

      I do think that the kind of unqualified praise that appears in Slashdot threads like these is either by dumb fanbois or astroturfers.

      Now what the fuck are you talking about?? Unqualified praise? I backed up every single point I made with good logic and facts. Go back to my response to OP and and you'll see concrete dates and facts. You have still to post one single fact or one single piece of logic. You've only posted your own colored opinion and presented it as fact.
      .

      And if you check my posting history, you'll see that I have little patience for fanbois of any OS.

      Your posting history has no bearing on this conversation. You posted bullshit and I called you out. Simple as that.

    26. Re:So much for ... by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      Hmm. Defensive much? Now who's the fucking fanboi here?

      As for flaws? How about utterly broken Z-order handling, where a closing dialog suddenly leaves no window focused? Or the maddeningly irritating raise-on-focus? Or inconsistent keyboard shortcuts among Microsoft's own software? Or the unpredictably crashing clipboard service when you run multiple TS sessions? The total hang of the entire desktop when Explorer tries to scan for network shares?

      Every equivalent flaw in a Linux distribution is cause for sarcastic remarks about 'the year of the Linux Desktop', yet when I use Windows, I am to take this in stride? Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

      Mart

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    27. Re:So much for ... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      I almost went to the trouble that AC did to point out the things I've seen since trying out Windows 7. Actually he took it a bit further than I would have and pointed out comparisons to XP and Vista. Somebody who uses Win7 tried to answer your question and you dismissed that whole thing and said 'lipstick on a pig'. Bet you didn't even read it.

      Defensive? No. Annoyed? Yep. The last time I behaved like you, I was giving Sony an irrationaly hard time about the PS3. I fuzzed my definition of 'astroturfing' and 'fanboy', too. Wow, what an ass I was then.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    28. Re:So much for ... by dhavleak · · Score: 1

      Hmm. Defensive much? Now who's the fucking fanboi here?

      Just bloody annoyed at trolls like you for ruining what used to be a good site once upon a time (seems quite long ago now).
      .

      As for flaws? How about utterly broken Z-order handling .... maddeningly irritating raise-on-focus .... inconsistent keyboard shortcuts .... crashing clipboard service .... hang of the entire desktop ...

      See -- you're just not getting the point. As I said, when there's a discussion about this stuff, feel free to go to town. You (and others like you) are trolling when you bring this nonsense up in a thread about a partnership between MS and Nokia (and every other unrelated thread that turns into a mindless slugfest). I could indulge you and start rationalizing these bugs, or pointing out more severe bugs in competing OSes, or pointing out places where you are incorrect -- but that would be me taking the bait. What's the mother fucking point of having so many different topics on the home page, if people like you reduce everything into "MS is teh sux"?
      .

      Every equivalent flaw in a Linux distribution is cause for sarcastic remarks about 'the year of the Linux Desktop'

      What the hell are you talking about?? I have not made one single negative comment about Linux. I didn't even mention Linux or OS-X or any OS other than Windows. Why? because I'm not a troll. I don't flame other peoples OS choices or post negative, unsubstantiated BS on unrelated threads. I merely get annoyed at people who do (thus subverting the thread) and in this case that was you. Next time you see a unsubstantiated & sarcastic post about the 'year of the linux desktop' feel free to jump in and pound the dipshit who said that. However, that was certainly not the case here. That makes you the troll, my friend.
      .

      ... yet when I use Windows, I am to take this in stride? Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

      Wow -- you just don't fucking get it. You don't have to take shit in stride. Why do you even use Windows if it frustrates you so much? And if you have a problem on it, your solution is to post on some unrelated freaking thread on slashdot?? Talk sense man.

    29. Re:So much for ... by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      Look, you condescending fuckhead, all I did was ask someone to back up an empty assertion. And all the Windows fanbois are suddenly all over me to call me names, and the Microsoft Mod Brigade mods me Flamebait. But do I see you upbraiding them? Noooo, you're there in the choir calling me names.

      You're a fucking hypocrite. And a Windows fanboi.

      Now fuck off.

      Mart

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    30. Re:So much for ... by dhavleak · · Score: 1

      Look, you condescending fuckhead, all I did was ask someone to back up an empty assertion.

      No you did not. You trolled. Look at your first post in this thread. I posted facts regarding product longevity, release dates, mainstream and extended support dates. Concrete facts. You replied with FUD. Look it up again.
      .

      And all the Windows fanbois are suddenly all over me to call me names, and the Microsoft Mod Brigade mods me Flamebait.

      Right -- people who oppose your point of view are fanboys. Very good.
      .

      But do I see you upbraiding them? Noooo, you're there in the choir calling me names.

      Well boo frickin hoo. You started the trolling, and now you expect me to come to your defense? Priceless.
      .

      You're a fucking hypocrite. And a Windows fanboi.

      See what I mean about your posts lacking facts?
      .

      Now fuck off.

      Have a nice day.

  2. teleboot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    all future phones will use teleboot in order to get into the cloud

  3. Microsoft and Nokia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Should turn out to be a nice story of two brothers: Cain and Abel.

    1. Re:Microsoft and Nokia? by CarpetShark · · Score: 1

      It seems that Nokia could play both of the brothers, actually. It seems to have a strange multiple personality thing whereby it buys Qt, opens it up more, encourages open source, and then jumps into bed with MS (again, if I recall correctly). An interesting attempt to be all things to all people.

  4. usability by blackraven14250 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Can anyone even imagine creating a serious document on any cellphone? That would be hellish.

    1. Re:usability by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If voice recognition worked...

      --
      This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
    2. Re:usability by kevjava · · Score: 2, Funny

      Works fine here:

      Let's set so double the killer delete select all

      See?

    3. Re:usability by DragonWriter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Can anyone even imagine creating a serious document on any cellphone?

      Yes. I've even occasionally done it; sure, I wouldn't want to do too detailed layout on a smartphone, but most "serious" documents don't need a lot more than a text editor with the ability to put basic structural features (multilevel headings, mostly, and maybe some tables) for most of the work you do with them (i.e., everything you do while its in the "working draft" phase.) Sure, to finalize something, for certain audiences, you may want to get in the weeds with tweaking the styles and layout, but that's not most of the work.

      You don't want to do heavy work on a smartphone, but both for initial creation (which is often at an outline level), and for doing on-the-go text revisions to serious documents that are in the "working draft" stage, its not a horrible platform, and it has the advantage that your phone is more likely to be with you whenever you have an update you want to make than, say, your laptop (and much more likely than your desktop).

      I'd rather work on a document on my home desktop with my 20" monitor, which is great for two-page editing. But I'd rather have the ability to edit a document when all I have with me is my phone than not at all.

    4. Re:usability by speedtux · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The primary use of this is for reading and annotating.

      However, many cell phones now have screens like 800x350 or 800x480 and allow full (folding) Bluetooth keyboards to be used with the phone; that kind of setup isn't all that different from a netbook.

    5. Re:usability by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      Say what? Can we try that with a little closer touch with reality?

      What you are referring to is not creating a serious document, it is the same as editing a SMS message. This is not synonymous with what we are referring to by serious document editing. An "outline" done on a phone properly involves some hefy processing and is not something that can be done easily without a mouse or touchscreen/hauptics.

      That could be as simple as positioning of a clipart or attaching a spreadsheet to a word doc, neither of those which are likely to be very functional on the average T9 cellphone (on the business phones with full keypads/enterprise software, touchscreens, or an iphone, or a G1, the solutions already exist). This is why this nokia-microsoft partnership is just a redundancy, and why people won't care in the long run.

    6. Re:usability by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 2, Informative

      If voice recognition worked...

      Or handwriting recognition.

      Yeah, I know, I know, tablet PCs (or whatever the latest buzzword for them is) have been the Next Big Thing for twenty years now. But sooner or later we will have handheld phones/computers (whatever buzzword they're calling them at that point) which will be able to translate regular handwriting into text as reliably as typing the same text on a keyboard. Faster than dictation, and a hell of a lot more private. Doing this on a device the size of most of the common smartphones would be quite comfortable, I think.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    7. Re:usability by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 1

      many cell phones now have screens like 800x350 or 800x480

      Yep. That's more pixels than my first laptop, and I wrote novels on that thing. GPP's idea that they're somehow inherently unusable for large document creation strikes me as very odd.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    8. Re:usability by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      If voice recognition worked...

      ...then you'd have to worry about bystanders telling your computer what to do.

    9. Re:usability by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If voice recognition worked...

      Or handwriting recognition.

      By my calculations, we'll get handwriting recognition just about at the point computer keyboards will have killed everybody's ability at handwriting.

    10. Re:usability by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      My smartphone is way more powerful than my desktop computer from 10 years ago. That's not the point. My desktop computer has the same sized keyboard that my 10 year old one had, except that it is connected to the computer by USB rather than a 5 pin AT connector; whereas my smartphone has a tiny keyboard where it is impossible to touch type.

    11. Re:usability by Stevecrox · · Score: 1

      During university I used a variety of Windows Mobile 2003 and Windows Mobile 5 phones with a bluetooth keyboard to take notes during class. Sure those notes were not perfectly formatted, but they were very usefull.

      Doing things this way had two major advantages:
      Cheap laptops tended to be stupidly heavy then and a 140gram phone with 20 gram keyboard is small enough to fit in a coat pocket.
      The second and by far the most important advantage was the poor typsetting capability of pocket word forced me to spend an hour each evening transferring my notes into a decent word document. My notes tended to be the most comprehensive in the class because I took that extra time in the evenings (helped me learn the material as well).

      There are other reasons as well, but are difficult to describe. An example of what I mean from my current nokia is GPS. I've never used GPS and I have a good sense of direction, but because its there on the phone I've used it hundreds of times and got real value from it.

      For most situations Pocket word is beyond useless, but document writing on a cell phone has uses.

    12. Re:usability by morghanphoenix · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I've lost track of how many times I've been on one of those automated call systems that used voice recognition only to have my daughter cry in the background and select the wrong option for me.

    13. Re:usability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would you want it? Even an on-screen thumb keyboard like the one on the iPhone is significantly faster than writing.

    14. Re:usability by Grishnakh · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Not for Chinese characters. Since Chinese is going to be the dominant language for business worldwide in a few decades, this is a pretty important concern.

    15. Re:usability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I take all of my class notes on my Nokia cell phone. But, I use a bluetooth keyboard.

    16. Re:usability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank heavens I won't be in worldwide business in a few decades... sounds like it will be all about theft, piracy, death camps and state censorship.

    17. Re:usability by manekineko2 · · Score: 4, Informative

      This is a news story about bringing Microsoft Office to business Symbian smartphones made by Nokia. Most of the E-Series referenced in the story have keyboards and look like Blackberries.

      This is not about your average T9 cellphone.

    18. Re:usability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows 7's handwriting recognition is actually quite phenomenal. And the interface to deal with corrections is gesture based and fluid. If only they could shrink that down.

      The main drawback of handwriting recognition on a phone is the screen width. you really only have space for one or two short words before stopping or going down the screen.

    19. Re:usability by michaelhood · · Score: 1

      I have read many excel sheets, edited, and even created some basic ones on my phone. Been doing it for years.

    20. Re:usability by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      Say what? Can we try that with a little closer touch with reality?

      You mean abstract speculation has a greater touch with reality than, you know, actually having done something in reality?

      What you are referring to is not creating a serious document, it is the same as editing a SMS message.

      Strange, the actual serious documents I've actually done it with were nothing like SMS messages.

      An "outline" done on a phone properly involves some hefy processing and is not something that can be done easily without a mouse or touchscreen/hauptics.

      No, it doesn't.

      That could be as simple as positioning of a clipart or attaching a spreadsheet to a word doc, neither of those which are likely to be very functional on the average T9 cellphone (on the business phones with full keypads/enterprise software, touchscreens, or an iphone, or a G1, the solutions already exist). This is why this nokia-microsoft partnership is just a redundancy, and why people won't care in the long run.

      The solutions that already exist aren't Microsoft solutions (except on WinMobile phones), which may not make a difference to some users, but will make a difference to others. Admittedly, I think the people that are going to care are (1) Nokia, (2) Big firms that have a policy of preferring Microsoft product for general use, and (3) All the companies making money selling works-with-office mobile solutions now that are going to have to compete with Microsoft to keep doing that.

    21. Re:usability by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

      Also T9/ordinary looking Nokia E series smart phones accept standard bluetooth keyboards or whatever you choose like the laser virtual keyboard at thinkgeek

      http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/keyboards-mice/8193/

      If I knew I could stand to people staring, I would buy that laser thing right now.

    22. Re:usability by BlackSnake112 · · Score: 1

      Ever try one of those small (or large one if you do not mind carrying it around) blue tooth keyboards? I have seen a few people using them and it worked OK. I have big hands, on that small keyboard I was touch typing again.

    23. Re:usability by dna_(c)(tm)(r) · · Score: 1

      ...phenomenal...you really only have space for one or two short words

      You mean like "astro" and "turfing"?

    24. Re:usability by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Can anyone even imagine creating a serious document on any cellphone? That would be hellish.

      No but I can imagine updating spreadsheets from my phone. Mainly because I've done it before. You have no idea how badly I ache for Google Docs to work as nicely on my iPhone as it does on my computer.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    25. Re:usability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can anyone even imagine creating a serious document in Microsoft Word? That would be hellish.

      There, fixed that for you.

    26. Re:usability by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1
      snip...

      But sooner or later we will have handheld phones/computers (whatever buzzword they're calling them at that point) which will be able to translate regular handwriting into text as reliably as typing the same text on a keyboard.

      But by then, it will be too late.!

    27. Re:usability by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      whereas my smartphone has a tiny keyboard where it is impossible to touch typ

      You'd be surprised, assuming you have a full QWERTY with a decent "feel" to it. I get 40-60wpm on my blackberry and have used it for some "serious" documents. I doubt it technically qualifies as touch typing -- you can't really look at the screen without seeing the keyboard directly below it -- but the point becomes moot if you can type at a satisfactory speed.

    28. Re:usability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She's just disagreeing with your choices :)

    29. Re:usability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Comparing resolutions without taking pixel density into account is pointless. Hint: it has tripled, more or less.

    30. Re:usability by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      That's what bluetooth keyboards are for.

      When I'm too lazy to take my laptop (or it doesn't have enough battery life), I just pack my foldable bluetooth keyboard and smartphone - voila, perfect note taking solution, with oodles and oodles of battery life.

    31. Re:usability by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      Hell, I take notes and write my creative fiction on 320x240... 800x480 is my next stop, and I'm having trouble getting the drool out of my keyboard. That should make writing down lab results on Excel Mobile a lot easier/more efficient :)

    32. Re:usability by xezas · · Score: 1

      Yep. That's more pixels than my first laptop, and I wrote novels on that thing. GPP's idea that they're somehow inherently unusable for large document creation strikes me as very odd.

      yes, there are more pixels. But what about screen size? Most phones will have screen sizes of 45cm X 25 cm which is about 1/6th (at best) that of an average laptop.

    33. Re:usability by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because Chinese keyboards are so different

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#China

      You have a US English keyboard and enter the sound of the characters.

      Even if you use something other than Hanyu Pinyin you can still do it on a keyboard with the same number of keys. Here in Taiwan people can type using much faster than they can write using Zhuhin Fuhao which represents Chinese using a phonetic but non latin script.

      In both cases you type the characters to represent the sounds and pick the right character in a drop box if there is ambiguity. But IMEs have got very smart over the years and usually guess right.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhuyin_fuhao

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    34. Re:usability by dwater · · Score: 1

      I think you'll find *any* Symbian smart phone can use a bluetooth keyboard. I've had a 3250, E71, E90, N95, N73 and they all worked just fine with my Apple bluetooth keyboard.

      --
      Max.
    35. Re:usability by dwater · · Score: 1

      All Nokia S60/Symbian phones come with s/w to read MS Office format files. The E series also come with s/w to edit them. It's called QuickOffice. Here, read up on it :

      http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/10289_Quickoffice_responds_to_Nokia_.php

      "One of the interesting side stories is that Nokia's Symbian phones already have an outstanding Office compatible software suite, in the form of Quickoffice, which ships with every current Nokia Symbian phone. Quickoffice have released their own statement today noting that its Symbian business represents only a portion of its overall business and that it will ship on 200 million Nokia Symbian phones before Microsoft's product is even released. See below for comment and their statement in full."

      --
      Max.
    36. Re:usability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's obviously not as good as having a full size screen, but it's usable. For most editing tasks, you pick a big font for better visibility, but the 800x480 is still nice when you need to see the layout.

    37. Re:usability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can anyone even imagine creating a serious document on any cellphone? That would be hellish.

      I frequently use OpenOffice.org on my n810 to write serious documents. I am talking about using tables, columns, references, indexes, complex spreadsheets, etc. It's a little slow, but servicable. I used to do it on an oqo until the motherboard died. So far my main document is about 105 pages broken into 6 subdocs. 95% of it written on either the oqo or the n810.

      So yeah, if I'm on the train, or waiting for something, it's a great time to edit my docs.

      For reference, I used to have a few Pocket PCs, I went through three of them. The "office" programs that MS produces for them are hellish and horrid. The "Word" equivalent is more like WordPad. No page formatting, no tables, they REMOVED image insertion around Windows Mobile 5, I think (not sure why).

      Microsoft seems to be of the mind that a pocket device that can compete with a desktop is somehow a major threat. I love the idea of UMPCs, but they are just too big. The n810 seems to be a pretty good replacement, though the speed and memory of the device is questionable for running something like OOo. But it sure beats the alternative (Pocket Office on a Windows Mobile device).

  5. What's the big deal? by fewnorms · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Seriously, someone explain to me why this is such a big deal? The announcement was made a few days ago that a joint announcement was forthcoming, and this is all they have? I seriously don't get it. I used to own a Nokia Communicator 9300i back in the day that was fully able to edit word and excel documents. Ok, not the most complicated ones, but the apps got the job done pretty well. This was at least 3 years ago by now.
    Whooptiedoo! We can now edit files on the go! (sound familiar?)
    What am I missing here?

    --
    Veni, Vidi, Velcro!
    1. Re:What's the big deal? by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      Microsoft branding and their knowledge of the bullshit they've built into the format so that more documents can work correctly, instead of just your "not the most complicated ones"

    2. Re:What's the big deal? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      It works on-line, as opposed to off-line like most phones that support Office docs do. It's a big deal because it means you can make changes to a document without having to go through a sync operation for those changes to be reflected back at home base. The changes are, for lack of a better term, instantaneous. Any company that uses spreadsheets, for example, would potentially find this rather interesting.

      If your Nokia Communicator's editing Office docs like Google's Docs, then tell me now so I can buy one.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  6. Uh ho by phonewebcam · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Hi! I'm Crappy, your personal handset buddy. I noticed you pressed a number on your phone keypad. It looks like you're trying to make a call. Would you like me to continue to interfere with this even though you almost certainly know what you want to do?".

  7. Odd move for Microsoft... by swanzilla · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I sure wouldn't make a strategic move that hinges on Symbian coming out on top of the mobile OS market.

    1. Re:Odd move for Microsoft... by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 2, Interesting
      --
      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    2. Re:Odd move for Microsoft... by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 1

      I do believe Nokia is moving towards maemo and away from symbian, however, the idea of microsoft putting together a program for linux to read MS based docs, is sorta hard to believe. A part of me thinks that one day MS will give up the ghost and embrace Linux as a platform for its still proprietary closed source products. A different part of me thinks the other part of me is crazy.

      --
      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    3. Re:Odd move for Microsoft... by swanzilla · · Score: 1

      If that is indeed the ultimate objective, the partner situation just got far more interesting than at fist glance...Mobile Office support for a Linux based mobile OS seems like a more reasonable finish line than trying to get in bed with Symbian.

    4. Re:Odd move for Microsoft... by sznupi · · Score: 1

      "Coming out"? Symbian is already on top, shipping on more than 50% of smartphones, and has been for a long time.

      If anything they bet it won't tank (which in itself is weird of course...)

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    5. Re:Odd move for Microsoft... by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Actually I wonder if Microsoft doesn't have a strategic goal here.

      I read that back when Apple was in trouble Microsoft bought shares in the company and guaranteed to keep supporting Office on the Macintosh. The idea was that Apple would never be able to kill Windows but if Apple died there might be anti trust issues or another more dangerous competitor might take its place. Or maybe it was just to stop look and feel lawsuits.

      http://www.wired.com/thisdayintech/2009/08/dayintech_0806/

      Now Symbian is in trouble it seems like they are doing the same thing. I guess it is because they worry about Android. Not that Android is exactly taking the world by storm.

      Still I think porting Office is one of those decisions that are taken mostly for strategic reasons.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  8. The usual Gartner nonsense by clang_jangle · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Gartner analyst Nick Jones said he is becoming "more concerned" about the future for Windows Mobile and added in a blog today that Windows Mobile 7 could be Microsoft's last update of the product."

    What an idiotic statement. MS doesn't give up markets that easily (unfortunately). They'll have a windows mobile OS if they have to start building their own phones to sell it.

    --
    Caveat Utilitor
    1. Re:The usual Gartner nonsense by icebike · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Hey, its Gartner!
      How could it possibly be anything other than idiotic?

      The only question when Gartner is involved is figuring out who the PAYING client is.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    2. Re:The usual Gartner nonsense by awitod · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It wouldn't surprise me if he's right about this. I have a lot of friends who work for Microsoft in various divisions and I can say without a doubt that the rank and file of Microsoft considers Windows Mobile to be an embarrassment. They've done a piss-poor job with the platform for years now and everyone knows it.

    3. Re:The usual Gartner nonsense by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 1

      I have a lot of friends who work for Microsoft in various divisions and I can say without a doubt that the rank and file of Microsoft considers Windows Mobile to be an embarrassment.

      I don't doubt that this is true, but surely it's just as true of many other Microsoft products including most releases of Windows for the desktop. Releasing crappy products has never, AFAIK, kept Microsoft out of a market they really want to be in -- and I guarantee they want to be in this one, given that the smartphone market is going to keep growing rapidly for some time to come. They keep releasing versions and either eventually get it kind-of right (Office, Xbox) or just count on the "nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft" mentality to generate enough sales to keep it profitable (SQL Server, Windows again). Yet they do, in fact, employ a lot of very smart people who are capable of judging the quality of these products ... but who presumably, especially in the current economy, consider a steady paycheck to be worth the embarrassment of telling other people who they work for.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    4. Re:The usual Gartner nonsense by mollog · · Score: 1

      [Microsoft will] have a windows mobile OS if they have to start building their own phones to sell it.

      So, the question would be; what are they waiting for? Mobile OS's are springing up left and right and Microsoft has no market share. Obviously, they can't deliver.

      --
      Best regards.
    5. Re:The usual Gartner nonsense by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      Problem is that nobody every got fired for buying Blackberry either.

    6. Re:The usual Gartner nonsense by manekineko2 · · Score: 1

      Nobody got fired for buying WordPerfect either.

    7. Re:The usual Gartner nonsense by awitod · · Score: 1

      You must not remember WordPerfect 5.0. That version had a lot to do with the rapidly growing popularity of Microsoft Word in the early 90's.

    8. Re:The usual Gartner nonsense by awitod · · Score: 1

      You have a point, but the problem with what you are saying is that all of the examples you give had increasing market share with each version and also made money.

    9. Re:The usual Gartner nonsense by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Windows Mobile is very popular in Asia. Far more so that Symbian.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    10. Re:The usual Gartner nonsense by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Windows mobile is especially bad, this is not your standard level of failure. When it takes me 4 clicks to even begin dialing a number on my "phone", and it takes about 15 seconds for the system to catch up, we have issues. Its especially a problem when a much less powerful blackberry is much more responsive and useable for everything except the web.

  9. No big deal by da_matta · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Considering that ActiveSync is already the number one mail solution in Nokia (E-series) devices and they have for a long time included office viewers, I don't really thinks this is anything that major. Nokia recognises that Office & Exchange are a necessity for their business customers and want to support that. Microsoft on the other hand would bring Office to Android if that would further their Office-business. If anything, Nokia is trying to get advantage over iPhone as a corporate phone.

    1. Re:No big deal by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      You mean with Nokia still outselling iPhones thrice, and being an old and very experienced company? No offense, but apart from the hype, the iPhone is a fart in global long-term economics. All other companies already brought out their competing products, with all that what the iPhone lacks (tons of features, no lock-in, Java, etc), while overtaking it in its own strong spots.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  10. user interface ? by Tom · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Uh? Who in their right mind would even want to use office on a mobile phone? The UI is bad as it is on a full-size PC.

    Seriously, a lot of these "tools" are just crap for middle management that for some reason feels empowered when they can do the secretaries job, just worse.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    1. Re:user interface ? by speedtux · · Score: 2, Informative

      Uh? Who in their right mind would even want to use office on a mobile phone? The UI is bad as it is on a full-size PC.

      "Here is your travel itinerary in Microsoft Word format."

      "Here is the almost-final proposal; could you please have a look and mark (with a "*") any items that we need to discuss?"

      "Let me give you a 1-minute run through our presentation; I have the slides on my phone."

    2. Re:user interface ? by Kenja · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I keep several spreadsheets of network and rack configuration information on my Nokia phone. Helps when I'm off site and need to lookup specs on a server. That way I can also make updates on the spot when I have to change an IP etc.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    3. Re:user interface ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personally, I have found it to be a VERY useful app to have handy. I have Office Mobile on my phone (Motorola Q9) and have often used it to open up a Word or Excel doc attached to an email for reference during a meeting. Quite nice.

    4. Re:user interface ? by Compuser · · Score: 1

      I would love to. What I want is full Powerpoint (or even a greatly improved Powerpoint viewer) on a mobile phone, complete with the ability to play back movies (and install codecs of course) and multiple animations and transitions and to output it to 1024x768 projector via VGA connector. Right now I have to carry a laptop to conferences if I am giving a talk there. With NVidia's Ion platform, netbooks are getting to the point of being usable for my needs. But I would love to just bring a cell phone. A bit more software and a few more rounds of hardware upgrades and we may get there.

    5. Re:user interface ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Here is your travel itinerary in Microsoft Word format."

      This is a good one. Often times when I travel I throw a copy of my airline information, the city's subway schedule, etc on my phone for spot reference.

    6. Re:user interface ? by tholomyes · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Here is your travel itinerary in Microsoft Word format."

      Can you just give it to me as plaintext instead?

      --
      When did the future switch from being a promise to a threat? -C. Palahniuk
    7. Re:user interface ? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, this message reached you via e-mail (thanks to your fancy schmancy smartphone) and the person who sent it is out of the office.

      The truth is that there's a large number of phones with office on them already...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:user interface ? by dubbreak · · Score: 4, Informative

      Can you just give it to me as plaintext instead?

      Nope. I send all important email messages as blank body with a Word attachment! If I can't be bothered to copy and paste do you think I'm going covert something to plaintext just for you? I don't even know how to do that and don't have time to learn. Much too busy. Much much too busy.

      --
      "If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
    9. Re:user interface ? by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This isn't really about new, practicality functionality but more about stopping the bleeding. Windows Mobile is losing ground to Apple, RIM, Android, and Symbian. "Pay no attention to those others platforms! Ours now has Office and a new hat!" The problem is anyone who has used Office on Windows Mobile realize it isn't very practical. Most of it has to do that Office isn't really designed for a mobile platform with the limitations in UI--the limitations not being you can't do it on a mobile device but that you can't do it very well.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    10. Re:user interface ? by jhol13 · · Score: 1

      I live and travel in different time zones.

    11. Re:user interface ? by mgblst · · Score: 1

      Well, fuck off then. Get back to me when you want to communicate with me again. (OK, maybe not in the real world, but we all want to say that!)

    12. Re:user interface ? by Tom · · Score: 2, Informative

      So what you need is a document viewer, not an office app.

      Wow, big deal. Last I checked (i.e. yesterday), the iPhone had that ability built-in, and from what I've heard, about every other smartphone does as well.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    13. Re:user interface ? by Tom · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Been there, done that. I've owned one of the first Palms and I own an iPhone now. I've had notebooks since before they were cool.

      Yes, 10 years ago I sometimes ssh'ed into our servers from a Palm III using IR connection to a mobile phone and dialin from that. It worked, it was geeky - and things that take me seconds on a desktop took me minutes on that setup.

      If you have to do work while you're on travel, take a notebook. People who really have actual work to do use notebooks. People who just want the feeling of importance use their phones to do nonsense work where quality doesn't matter.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    14. Re:user interface ? by dwater · · Score: 1

      Symbian has had this capability for many years via a 3rd party app that you can install (QuickOffice) - I expect you could buy it from one of the several app stores that sold apps for Symbian...all years before iPhone was released, let alone Apple's app store, and probably before Apple started development of the iPhone.

      --
      Max.
    15. Re:user interface ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, you're saying that because ssh via IRDA to a mobile phone didn't work well for you, you think the entire phone-based computing stuff is silly? You don't know what you're talking about.

      I carry both a laptop and a smartphone while traveling, and I travel a lot. Let me tell you: running applications on mobile phones is a godsend for travelers, whether you have a laptop or not. It works worldwide, without complicated setups, and it's easy to carry anywhere. Roaming Internet access is expensive, but it still beats hunting for a hotspot.

      Ssh to servers is not the usual use case (although it works in a pinch), but E-mail, web browsing, file downloading, Word/Excel/Powerpoint access, text messaging, mapping, and IM are. Modern phones are faster than powerful desktop machines from a few years ago, and you can hook up reasonable keyboards to them.

      (Of course, as an iPhone user, you have already outed yourself as a lover of gimmicks; if you actually want to get work done, get a Symbian phone.)

    16. Re:user interface ? by ElmoGonzo · · Score: 1

      I have Documents to Go on my Centro. It has its uses but they are very limited. Google Docs would be equally useful if I ever found a use for a browser on a cell phone.

    17. Re:user interface ? by Tom · · Score: 1

      Ssh to servers is not the usual use case (although it works in a pinch), but E-mail, web browsing, file downloading, Word/Excel/Powerpoint access, text messaging, mapping, and IM are. Modern phones are faster than powerful desktop machines from a few years ago, and you can hook up reasonable keyboards to them.

      E-Mail and web - I much prefer the desktop, though it's useable (barely) on a phone.
      Word/etc. - been there, done that, hated it. As I said, I'm reasonably sure that I can do in seconds on a desktop what takes you minutes on a phone.
      Messaging/IM - same thing, though not quite as bad. Yes, a phone is great for a quick on-the-run message. For anything resembling a conversation, I prefer an actual keyboard. And once you hook up a keyboard to your phone, why not use a netbook?

      (Of course, as an iPhone user, you have already outed yourself as a lover of gimmicks; if you actually want to get work done, get a Symbian phone.)

      My other phone is one, thank you very much. For almost everything, I prefer the iPhone. Especially for stuff like ssh or large documents, where it gives me at least something resembling screen space.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    18. Re:user interface ? by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Ok, you're fired!

      What? You are what? My "boss"? Nope. You are buying work from me. And I got better clients than you. Good luck finding an idiot who would work for *you*. :P

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  11. Screen Size by SilverHatHacker · · Score: 0, Troll

    How are they ever going to fit the Ribbon on a c. 2" screen?

    --
    Funny may not give karma, but +5 Informative never made anyone snort coffee out their nose.
  12. Typical M$ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A day late, and dollar short. M$ has been reactionary for a while now. They don't innovate shit anymore.

  13. doesn't the iphone do this already? by pak9rabid · · Score: 1

    The only use for this that I could envision is providing read-only access to a Office files (I know I wouldn't have the patience to write Office docs on my phone...writing an email is bad enough). In that case, can't the iPhone already do this?

  14. They're fightin RIM by Stenchwarrior · · Score: 3, Informative

    According to this Link, the claim is that they want to battle Balckberry's RIM.

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    Loading...
    1. Re:They're fightin RIM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean RIM's Blackberry right.

  15. put a server on a cellphone, too by swschrad · · Score: 1

    ridiculous. the only thing that's good for is to carry a document into a meeting with. last I heard, any laptop or tablet with a wi-fi card will do the job, and plug into the projector or printer, too.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  16. What do you mean? by Seth+Kriticos · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This sounds like they had done something innovative in the past. If you really believe that, than please enlighten me of what that might have been. I'm dying to know.

    Copying from others, repackaging it in a user friendly manner and subversively bringing OEM's to install it on all new machines does not count. I mean something technical in their core business.

  17. I guess then by Skiron · · Score: 1

    You will need a new Nokia with 10,000 buttons on it to use all the crap MS office has (that 99.9% of people don't use).

    Let alone 16GB of memory for a 'hello darling, I will home soon' txt msg.

  18. Um... ok, but my Nokia already has office apps. by Kenja · · Score: 1

    Um... ok, but my Nokia already has office apps from several different vendors.

    Has for years in fact, even reads & writes the Microsoft Office (tm)(r)(c) documents.

    Not sure what gap this is supposed to fill.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
  19. That's odd by InlawBiker · · Score: 1

    Because I was just reading about Symbian being cancelled.

    1. Re:That's odd by Mulder3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That doesn't mean anything, Symbian will probably die some time in the future, but not Series60(witch is nokia UI ontop of Symbian) Symbian^4 will move away from that ugly C++ API an will be completely based on QT framework and will break the binary compatibility with previous series60/symbain (http://blog.symbian.org/2009/04/30/reviewing-the-release-plan) This means that Series60 will be based on QT as well, so they can easily move to a Linux platform if they want... (and break the binay compatibility again in the process, but nokia doesn't have any problem with that, they do it regularly)

    2. Re:That's odd by ianare · · Score: 1

      From your link :

      Update: As Reggie has pointed out in the comments, Peter Schneider, Nokia's Maemo marketing guru, has put the brakes on this rumor via Twitter. "No, Nokia is not replacing Symbian with Maemo. Symbian and Maemo will continue to coexist." So much for intrigue, and romance.

      Symbian has a release roadmap all the way to 2011. It's also open source now, so it will be updated for as long as there's a community interested in keeping it alive.

    3. Re:That's odd by kamochan · · Score: 1

      Oh, you just gotta love it!

      If Nokia gets this on Symbian, then Microsoft is hosed, as the mix just can't be good.

      If Nokia gets this on Maemo, then we have Microsoft Office on Linux.

      Interesting times :)

  20. Seriously?... by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you want/need to type a Word doc or Excel spreadsheet on your damn phone then put down the phone, quit the ridiculous job that is consuming your life, and go enjoy life. A tiny screen and keyboard is no way to go through life, son.

    I guess I am throwing in the towel on my geek cred here, but seriously as many IT jobs as I've had and this has never been a need (or want).

    --
    http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
    1. Re:Seriously?... by PaddyM · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I guess you've never seen the tv out feature that normally comes with nokia phones.

    2. Re:Seriously?... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Show some imagination !

      A foldable bluetooth keyboard and HDMI video output would do the trick nicely. You can already do a low-res version of this on many of the existing S60 phones thanks to the s-video support.

      Longer term mini projectors might be the way forwards. Although, the current ones are too dim for serious work in a lit room.

    3. Re:Seriously?... by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wow, you're actually defending this by trying to say hooking up your cell phone to a TV is a viable solution? So if you are near a TV, and have the requisite cables... you can then output your Office files and still have a tiny keyboard. Brilliant! Or not.

      What could be so pressing that you have no laptop, or access to a computer, yet you have a cell phone, proprietary AV cables, and a TV. This is some alternate reality isn't it?

      --
      http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
    4. Re:Seriously?... by jhol13 · · Score: 1

      I'll never understand your kind of people: "I do not therefore nobody should".

      Bloody hell, I occasionally browse slashdot - it has two side panels which takes huge amount of space so I have to scroll and zoom. Then I have to navigate to reply button and write text to it, in a small screen.

      Apparently, according to your ideas, I should quit my free time too?

      Well, I think the way you think about games, especially portable games: "get a life!" (or do I, was I just pulling your leg?).

    5. Re:Seriously?... by Man+Eating+Duck · · Score: 1

      I guess you've never seen the tv out feature that normally comes with nokia phones.

      As opposed to bringing a laptop, you suggest bringing a TV set and a generator to use with your phone? Impressive.
      May I interest you in this handy and accurate wristwatch as well? :)

      --
      Are you a grammar Nazi? I'm trying to improve my English; please correct my errors! :)
    6. Re:Seriously?... by XMode · · Score: 1

      No no.. You can also use a bluetooth keyboard with most nokia phones now. So all you need to do is carry around a full sized keyboard, a smallish LCD TV and all the cables and you can use your phone to edit documents! Nokia's next innovation will be a device that is small enough to sit on your lap and contains the 'TV' and keyboard built in so then you wont have to worry about the cables either!

      On a more serious note. I have an E65 and I can ALREADY view and edit word and excel files on it. I don't because I also have an eeepc and can use the phone as a tether to the internet and use openoffice on a much bigger screen..

    7. Re:Seriously?... by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      Why would this be for IT purposes? I use it for note taking in uni lectures and creative writing on long trips where my laptop battery isn't going to last... works perfectly fine, albeit with a full size bluetooth keyboard.

    8. Re:Seriously?... by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Actually I could imagine a solution using Wireless USB or some other UWB based technology to get video and audio out of the device and keystrokes in.

      Hell I'd buy A2DP Bluetooth speakers for my laptop at home now if I could find some that were less crappy than the very crappy speakers it already has.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    9. Re:Seriously?... by dwater · · Score: 1

      I wonder if this would work for you :

      http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/headsets/bluetooth-headsets/nokia-bluetooth-stereo-headset-bh-214

      I've been impressed by the quality when using it to connect my Senn HD-25 headphones and my E90 (which has a stupid 2.5mm socket).

      --
      Max.
    10. Re:Seriously?... by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      I don't see the point to those things. My laptop and phone both have 3.5mm audio jacks and I've got loads of headphones if I wanted to do that. Actually I want sound to come out of a pair of speakers on the other side of the room without having cables plugged into anything.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    11. Re:Seriously?... by dwater · · Score: 1

      My suggestion was based on the idea that you would have a small cable connecting this device to your stereo and you can then use your phone as if it were a remote control, except in this case it is the actual source too. It at least avoids you needing to drape a cable across the room, no?

      The point of it in my case is that my phone doesn't have a 3.5mm jack (it has a stupid 2.5mm one), and with this device I can leave the phone in my bag or whatever and just have a short headphone cable attached to the small neat white thing attached to my shirt or something. I can even leave the phone charging somewhere while I wander around - which is what I did when I found my phone's batteries were dead when I got to the gym. I just plugged it in and set it playing music, while I did my work-out.

      I have heard this device is popular with iPhone users too, now that Apple have deemed to let people who rent iPhones use A2DP devices.

      I think there's plenty of point in it. Maybe you don't have such a need, but it sounded to me like you did.

      It's pretty cheap too.

      The only bad thing about it is that you can't replace the batteries - so stupid, but at least it's cheap.

      --
      Max.
    12. Re:Seriously?... by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      > My suggestion was based on the idea that you would have a small cable connecting this device to your stereo and you can then use your phone as if it were a remote control, except in this case it is the actual source too.

      I see what you mean, but these things are designed to be headsets. So they have batteries which need to be charged. Actually you've got a point though, I could imagine a widget that listens on Bluetooth and has a 3.5mm jack plug that could drive a normal set of speakers. Still I want something which is designed to run off an AC adaptor permanently.

      Actually in an odd sort of way it would make sense to have a bluetooth receiver inside a DVD player. Then I could use that as my "Bluetooth to 3.5mm adaptor". I think something like Wireles USB would be great for this - it should be cheap and widely supported and it has the bandwidth for video as well as audio.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    13. Re:Seriously?... by dwater · · Score: 1

      yes, the charging issue might be a blocker - I doubt it like to be constantly plugged in and charging, but I'm not sure.

      --
      Max.
    14. Re:Seriously?... by dwater · · Score: 1

      > What could be so pressing that you have no laptop, or access to a computer, yet you have a cell phone, proprietary AV cables, and a TV. This is some alternate reality isn't it?

      Are you seriously suggesting you've never been :

      1) without your laptop, and
      2) without access to a computer, and
      3) had your cell phone, and
      4) near a TV?

      The only issue is if you happen to have a cable, and that doesn't really require much forethought. I could easily imagine such a situation...cable in the glove compartment in the car, or I popped it into the suitcase. Even my parents' car has a sizable TV and even crappy hotels have reasonable TVs.

      Of course, your 'tiny keyboard' comment is irrelevant since all phones I've ever used can use a bluetooth keyboard (I have an Apple one for my E90/E71).

      IMO, *much* less hassle than a laptop, and it is good enough for most quick jobs, and even some longer ones. Heck, some phones even have HD video output so you don't have to put up with poor resolution - though in the case of the phone I'm referring to, it's not via a TV-out cable but something weird, so it's quite unlikely that your hotel or car would have a TV that would work with that....but the tech is not far from phones having HDMI out, I think.

      --
      Max.
  21. -1, Failtard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Chinese input is done using pinyin, which *gasp* uses a tradational keyboard. It's hilariously faster to type Chinese using pinyin input vs. hand writing. I mean sickengly, stupidly, mind boggingly faster to the point that it's not even negotiable: anyone who claims otherwise is lying or doesn't know what they're talking about (e.g. the above poster).

    1. Re:-1, Failtard by thexile · · Score: 1

      Retard, have you taken into consideration that some Chinese including me couldn't grasp pinyin? I still prefer handwriting over pinyin input.

  22. Windows Mobile has fans, community by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

    Thanks to iPhone, Windows Mobile now has fans too. You know, iPhone policies, app store made both Symbian and Windows Mobile some kind of "freedom OS".

    I haven't heard anything bad about Windows Mobile for a long time and it is a first in Windows operating systems. No security scandal happened too.

    Don't tell me that "analyst" at Garner doesn't have a clue about Silverlight coming to Nokia phones. It was announced year or more ago. Not Moonlight, the Silverlight.

    With Office announcement and the fact that Silverlight beginning to tie to .NET platform, it seems .NET itself is coming to Symbian. Of course, it doesn't have to be visible to end user or even other developers. I wonder if MS finally understood what "framework" , "runtime" means and where World is heading to?

  23. Don't forget keyboard by Ilgaz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well, you forgot to tell that any bluetooth keyboard (Apple preferred for fun) can be "plugged" to Nokia smart phones to use as input, adding more to shock.

    Oh (for iPhone users), no hack needed. Nokia advertises the driver/app themselves and gives free.
     

  24. And Nokia may even release WinMO model by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

    One of the issues with Nokia's customers is: They demand official, Microsoft solution if they are Windows based.

    I remember reading on The Register that Nokia stated they MAY release a Windows Mobile smart phone and it should have no effect on their future with Symbian. The main reason was that.

    Customer runs exchange server, ms office, win 2k03 server and goes to buy Asus Windows Mobile (like thousands of them) while Nokia is superior and could even run/sync better. Why? Because Asus has Windows Mobile OS.

    Same deal with Blackberry you know. All Nokia and SE pro phones have perfect blackberry support, even coming free and yet they go and buy that weird hardware.

  25. Yay office on my phone! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unfortunately, the ribbon takes up the whole screen, and the only button on it is "quit".

  26. The Slashdot death-spiral by westlake · · Score: 1

    Microsoft has been cannibalizing their own business for profits. They don't have the ability to innovate and they have been resorting to forcing upgrades on their customers to maintain revenue.
    they could have taken over business software

    Slashdot and reality are perilously close to a permanent disconnect:

    "SharePoint is saving Microsoft's Office business even as it paves the way for a new era of Microsoft lock-in," said Matt Asay, an executive at Alfresco, which makes an open-source content management system. "It is simultaneously the most interesting and dangerous Microsoft technology, and has largely caught its competitors napping." Microsoft's SharePoint Thrives in the Recession, Slow down, cowboy

    With the next version of Office, Microsoft is trying to expand* its desktop hold on the productivity market into one that spans the PC, Web, and phone, and the Nokia deal is seen as a significant move in that last category.
    The software maker has already said that, with the next version of Office, it plans to offer browser-based versions of Word, PowerPoint, Excel, and OneNote. Those programs will be able to run inside Safari and Firefox in addition to Microsoft's Internet Explorer. That means that Office, for the first time, will run on Linux-based machines.
    Although Nokia and Microsoft have long been rivals in the phone business, the two have also struck deals at times. Nokia already has a license that allows its phones to connect to Exchange Servers using Microsoft's ActiveSync protocol. In 2007, Microsoft also struck a deal with Nokia to have Windows Live services run on the Finnish company's phones.
    Microsoft, Nokia plan mobile Office deal

    *-emphasis added.

  27. abiword! by kost-bebix · · Score: 1

    abiword actually runs great on maemo

  28. So should I upgrade? by VoyagerRadio · · Score: 1

    Should I buy the new phone? I need a new mobile device, to make my life complete. I feel like an outsider: my smartphone fell apart after years of un-gentleness and now I'm back to using my old T9. This phone doesn't have the mobile Office apps I never use -- so should I upgrade? I guess I should wait for the Microsoft/Nokia arrangement to manifest itself in the stores first. I guess I'll spend my time worrying about how far behind the Hiptop generation I'm falling...Oh, woe is I!

    --
    Harold