First Look At Palm's Mojo SDK

snydeq writes "Peter Wayner puts Palm's Mojo SDK through its paces and finds the general outline of the system solid and usable despite 'numerous rough edges and dark, undocumented corners.' The main draw, of course, is the reliance on HTML, CSS, and JavaScript, which lower the barriers to entry, though with Mojo, HTML and JavaScript do at times work against each other, with JavaScript occasionally 'wiping out anything you do with HTML.' But more than anything, Wayner sees the current version of Mojo as 'merely the start of access to a very fertile platform. 'Developers are actively digging into the Linux foundations of the Pre and finding they can build tools that work with the raw guts of the machine. Some are talking about writing Java services underneath,' Wayner writes, pointing to sites such as PalmOpenSource.com and PreCentral.net that are cataloging dozens of apps that come complete with the source code. 'I know people are doing similar things with the iPhone — such as selling the source to people who must install it themselves — but the entire scene emerging around Palm has a much more organic and creative vibe. It's not getting hung up on parsing and reparsing the App Store rules.'"

Comments

Like with the original Palm OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Seems like it was this same type of development culture that helped to launch the first Palm Pilots to popularity.

Re:Like with the original Palm OS

[arbiterveritas]

I'm just curious why the Android OS doesn't get this level of love and affection from the mainstream.. yeah, the G1 isn't as sleek/sexy as the new Palm... just the same, the OS/platform is at least as interesting. Not to mention even more open.

The key is striking the right balance [in the public's eye] between closed and open source. Yes, the G1 is even more open, but is it too open? Also, what language is required to program the G1? I've never heard anything about it aside from ads and comments saying "Open source!!11!" This system leads with its strengths: design, programming, and the Palm name. Google isn't known for their phones. Palm is.

Re:Like with the original Palm OS

[drinkypoo]

Palm Computing invented worthwhile handheld computing. The Newton had its uses, but it was strictly for nerds. The Palm Pilot was the first pocket computer useful to suits. Graffiti was the first pen-recognition system worth using. Apple has done a lot to change things, but to a lot of people a PDA will always be a Palm Pilot.

Tethering

[Anonymous Coward]

Palm doesn't like this, but it's awesome so do it.

http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/191213-my-tether-tether-over-wifi-usb-bt.html

What the hell?

[DeathMagnetic]

I know people are doing similar things with the iPhone â" such as selling the source to people who must install it themselves â" but the entire scene emerging around Palm has a much more organic and creative vibe.

What does this even mean? Are we measuring mobile phones against each based on "vibes" now? And how is doing the same thing on a different device somehow more creative?

Re:What the hell?

[jo42]

Think of it this way:

iPhone == Windows (closed source)

Palm Pre == FOSS

Re:What the hell?

[arbiterveritas]

What does this even mean? Are we measuring mobile phones against each based on "vibes" now? And how is doing the same thing on a different device somehow more creative?

I think what was meant is a reference to the developers' [demonstrated] willingness to listen to the community's developers, along with the overall design of the operating system which is drastically different from the massively popular contender: the iPhone. If you read the palm developer website, it appears much friendlier and more open than anything I've seen on the iPhone website.

As for your comment, when phones can do very nearly anything our laptops / netbooks can do, then yes, I would measure a phone based on its "vibe." It's not so much -what- is being done, but how it is done that makes it different.

[Cue the "vibe" jokes]

Re:What the hell?

[MightyMartian]

Creative in the iPhone world means "App Store will likely tell you to fuck off". So I would think a more open platform is going to attract more creativity than one where a bunch of Apple goons hold all the cards.

Re:What the hell?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does that mean in future:

iphone == 95%

Palm Pre == 1%

Re:What the hell?

[QuoteMstr]

But not it isn't Linux.

Uh, what?

quotemstr@castle ~$ uname -a
Linux castle 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 #1 175.1.23 armv7l GNU/Linux

Re:What the hell?

[ksheff]

A nice thing about the WebOS SDK is that the developer doesn't have to buy anything to develop for the Pre. One thing that turned me away from getting an iPhone is that I would have to buy a Mac if I wanted to develop for it.

Re:What the hell?

[spinlight]

I know people are doing similar things with the iPhone â" such as selling the source to people who must install it themselves â" but the entire scene emerging around Palm has a much more organic and creative vibe.

What does this even mean? Are we measuring mobile phones against each based on "vibes" now? And how is doing the same thing on a different device somehow more creative?

The new Palm Pre will dynamically synergize your social network with it's organic and creative Web 2.0 cloud-computing vibe, helping you leverage your open source collaboration.

Re:What the hell?

[threephaseboy]

I think the point was, it isn't necessarily GNU/Linux just because the kernel is Linux.

Does Palm release all of the source to WebOS?

Is that you, RMS?

Real programming/scripting language

[Anonymous Coward]

Wish they'd support some decent languages like C/C++ and Python or even regular Java. because JavaScript is the most awful excuse for a scripting language I have ever tried to work with

Re:Real programming/scripting language

[rsborg]

The problem isn't the language, the problem is the development environment. Edit, Upload, and Pray isn't very productive.

If you're programming javascript and still haven't learned about Firebug or even Webkit (aka Safari/Chrome) inspector, you're doing it wrong.

Firebug is a better "development/debug" tool than many IDEs, it's usability is insane. For me, Firefox+Firebug and a syntax-highlighting editor that can edit files over SFTP is all that's really needed (ok, svn support is nice).

How will this Help Palm?

[mpapet]

Since when does something that is technically better mean it's a viable competitor to Apple? History is *full* of technically better failures.

I've come to the inflammatory conclusion regarding the iPhone. The crazy rules of the app store and the phone's 'jail' are a demand accellerant. The intricate craziness of the Apple culture wins out over a vendor developing a relatively open phone OS.

Re:How will this Help Palm?

[Fallen Seraph]

I wouldn't be so sure. I'm a Pre owner and pretty much everyone I know is an iPhone owner. The reason the iPhone's been so successful thus far is that it's really lacked any competition. The G1 was both aesthetically and technically inferior to the iPhone, and Android itself has been taking it's sweet damn time growing into a powerful mobile OS. It's only now, in the latter half of 2009 that we're seeing it grow into something really worthwhile, especially with the coming explosion of new hardware for it.

But I digress. All of my iPhone owning friends have played with my Pre for a bit and have conceded that it is indeed a decent rival, technically speaking, to the iPhone, but the conversation didn't stop there. Pretty much all of them agreed that their current iPhone would be the last one they own. Why? A few reasons. Some feel the hardware's appearance is beginning to look dated, especially compared to the Pre and HTC Hero, others are sick of waiting for a decent multitasking solution for it, which both Android and WebOS already have, some are sick of AT&T's horrible network, and still others are just tired of being forced into using iTunes, which in recent years has become an immensely bloated app in it's own right.

Admittedly, none of these people are Apple fanatics, though some do own Apple computers. Their primary reasons for using an iPhone, as I said, were because until recently, there wasn't much in the way of competition that could even approach the iPhone's usefulness and usability. I'll be the first to admit that my personal friends, family, and acquaintances are likely far removed from the average cross-section of iPhone owners, but they brought up valid points, and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the next iteration of the iPhone doesn't sell nearly as well unless Apple begins looking into some pretty big ways of updating the device, something they failed to do with the 3GS imo. It's kind of telling when WebOS, which is still very much in it's infancy, is already being seen as a legitimate threat to the iPhone by CNet and others, even though Apple has had such a huge head start with both their OS and hardware, and that in a similar time span, Android has gone from a crawl to a run, with each new OS update bringing tons of new features, and with handset manufacturers building some amazingly slick interfaces on top of it.

Re:How will this Help Palm?

[metamatic]

Regular users don't even know that they can't have multiple apps running at the same time.

They do once they ask why they can't use their phone for proper instant messaging, file sharing, streaming music, or any of a dozen other things you might want to use a 3G-connected smartphone for.

Have you seen my mojo?

[lawnboy5-O]

"numerous rough edges and dark, undocumented corners"

They found it!! they finally found my Mojo!!!

I think this will gain steam overtime... they needed to just get it out there and get customer-driven direction from developers....

Hey, beats the piss out of the last Palm OS SDK approach.

Simplicity is Complex

[Ukab the Great]

HTML, CSS, and JavaScript are three separate programming language/syntaxes (JQuery syntactic sugar would add yet one more pseudo syntax). To design graphical applications with them for the Pre, I'd have to use a text editor. And if I read the article right, I would have to fiddle with the command line to do development.

The Cocoa API is essentially one programming language/syntax. And I can design graphical interfaces with a graphical application (Interface Builder). And I never have to touch the command line.

No contest.

Re:Simplicity is Complex

[QuoteMstr]

Your post is pure FUD. The bottleneck in any application worth writing isn't actually laying out the widgets on the page. Also, I can't see why using a graphical HTML editor if you were so inclined would be out of the question.

It's not how many "languages" or "syntaxes" one needs to learn that counts, but the complexity of the whole system. The system complexity is roughly comparable, and if anything, favors the Pre. Objective C is still an esoteric language; HTMl, Javascript, and CSS have been universal for 15 years.

Re:Simplicity is Complex

[Ukab the Great]

The first HTML browser was written in that esoteric language.

Re:Simplicity is Complex

[rho]

JQuery syntactic sugar

JQuery's syntax is anything but sugar. It's a hideous mess. It's as if C++ and Lisp fucked and shat out an assbaby.

I like JQuery, for what it does, but for serious...

Re:Simplicity is Complex

[tyrione]

Your post is pure FUD. The bottleneck in any application worth writing isn't actually laying out the widgets on the page. Also, I can't see why using a graphical HTML editor if you were so inclined would be out of the question.

It's not how many "languages" or "syntaxes" one needs to learn that counts, but the complexity of the whole system. The system complexity is roughly comparable, and if anything, favors the Pre. Objective C is still an esoteric language; HTMl, Javascript, and CSS have been universal for 15 years.

I'll raise you FUD with FULL OF SHI*! CSS has not been universal for 15 years. Objective-C has been universal since 1989. I'm sorry you're to f'n lazy to write with it as part of GCC, but that's not stopping the massive surge in books being published for ObjC now that Apple is finally pushing Cocoa [NeXTStep made the Browser viable first: so much for the esoteric language] and with LLVM GCC can no longer keep politically delaying additions because let's face it, LLVM is pairing up with GCC and beating it on performance.

HTML 5 is the first version of HTML in 10 years. It's not because it's so universal and standard. It's because people spent 10 years trying to make XML be the end all, be all, of web development. And ten years later Apple and Google bring us HTML 5 with really useful CSS APIs now in WebKit dealing with 2D/3D space.

Meanwhile, we are just getting bits and pieces of CSS 3 with CSS2.1 still not universally adopted and implemented. I'll stop here. I could go on and on.

Decent Article on Mojo SDK State

[El Royo]

I've been developing applications for the Palm Pre for about a month and this article does a pretty good job of summarizing the state of the SDK. I was never a Javascript fan and was disappointed at first to learn that it would be the language for developing apps. However, I've since discovered that there's actually quite a bit of power in Javascript. One of the big hurdles for 'traditional' developers approaching the Palm Pre is that you have to learn up to five new technologies at once: Javascript, HTML, CSS, the Mojo framework and, optionally, Prototype. None of these is difficult on their own. Diving head first into all of them leads to a bit of confusion at first as you wrap your brain around them.

I have set up a blog where I discuss some of the more user-facing aspects of the Palm Pre: Pre101.com. I hope to bring out a more developer oriented site later.

HTML+JS+CSS? Apple did it in 2005

[toby]

Dashboard widgets, Dashcode IDE.

Tethering?

[QuoteMstr]

"Tethering"? I don't need to "tether" my Pre.

It's just an ordinary Linux computer that runs iptables and iproute2 like any other Linux computer. If I want to forward traffic over it, I can do it in exactly the same way I would forward packets through any other Linux machine. (Hint: the wifi interface is called eth0. The cellular interface is called ppp0. And it supports USB networking.)

The Pre is mind-bogglingly banal. We're so accustomed to twisted, badly-designed platforms in the mobile world that when we're confronted with what's more or less a boring old Linux system, our jaws drop in flabbergasted amazement.

Re:Tethering?

[Anonymous Coward]

Errrr... so when I do the exact same thing with my BlackBerry and my Windows PC, that's bad, because it's "tethering" and what you're doing is not. Something like that?

I don't get this

[commodoresloat]

yeah, the G1 isn't as sleek/sexy as the new Palm...

Have you actually used a Pre? It may look sleek and sexy in pictures, but actually holding the thing it feels completely flimsy, the keyboard is shit (and I say that as someone who really likes my Treo keyboard), and the application interface is frustratingly slow (half the time I couldn't even get the touch screen to work when I played with it). I didn't find it sleek or sexy at all.

Language exclusive SDKs.

[BlueKitties]

Microsoft at least has one thing it knows: cross language APIs/SDKs are a good thing. I wanted to perform some data mining on an Excel Spread sheet, I just popped open Python file and imported COM support -- tah-dah, Excel access in the language of my choice, with as many supporting features as the Java/C#/C++/PHP/Ruby approaches.

Re:Someone Way More Schooled Than Me...

[abigor]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-in-time_compilation

Short answer: your Java program will run natively, as it gets compiled at runtime.

The problem with Java isn't the speed, it's the memory overhead and startup time of the runtime.