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88% of Electronics Exports Reused, Not Dumped
retroworks writes "Greenercomputing.com staff covered a study which sheds more light on the controversial practice of exporting used computer equipment overseas. University of Arizona professors Ramzy Kahhat and Eric Williams newly published research, Product or Waste? Importation and End-of-Life Processing of Computers in Peru apparently confirms what WR3A.org says in the Video 'Fair Trade Recycling'. Namely, that most of the exports of used computers imported by buyers overseas (88%) are really for reuse and repair. Otherwise, people would not pay to import them. This bolsters pro-export arguments made in a scholarly article by Charles Schmidt of NIH in 2006. Perhaps what is needed to stem e-waste pollution is not a ban on exports, but for more people to export, so that buyers have more choice of (ethical) suppliers. Put another way: If used computer exports are outlawed, only outlaws will export used computers."
Has pretty strict rules on importing some items. When I worked for an electronics shop repairing TVs in the 90s we sold all of our scrap TVs to a Hispanic gentleman who would take them to Mexico and strip them of usable parts then sell them. He could do this with scrap televisions but could not do it with any part for a computer as those were even more restricted.
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
But there are lots of places where man hours are a lot cheaper. In a third world country, where they can get the electronics at a per ton cost, it is probably cheaper to pay someone to fix the stuff.
Not to mention the high black market value of the financial information left on hard drives whose power supply broke so no one bothered to delete them (if they even thought about it.)
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
What happens after that? To where do they get... 'exported' again once they are... 'retired' in those third world country? It's very likely that electronics disposal regulations in those third world countries are nearly as strict as they should be. So really what then?
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
It amazes me how many people throw away perfectly good equipment because windows is running slow, or the drive is crashed, so they think that the whole machine doesn't work anymore. People cannot differentiate between operating system health and hardware health. Also a lot of older tech that is getting phased out is still perfectly usable with windows xp. Even a lowly P4 2ghz isn't all that bad for just web surfing. I was thinking about the rate of PC platform development lately, and it seems to me that the innovation rate is slowing down. Perhaps this is due to there being one single platform (x86) now, but doesn't it seem like things moved so much faster forward in the 90s? I mean we went from 8-bit processors to 32-bit risc monsters on the desktop in like 10 years. Asides from faster busses and dual processors and (finally) 64-bit addressing, how much further have we really come? All these people are reusing 10 year old tech because it still runs today's software (2d software at least) and that isn't something you could say 10 years ago, and that is my point.
zosxavius photography
I for one, i am not.
Check out this disturbing CBC video short documentary on how these people dismantle computers in the most unhealthy way. Both to themselves and their environment.
http://www.cbc.ca/national/blog/video/environmentscience/ewaste_dumping_ground.html
I use a nearly 10 year old PC at work as my disposable net-connected computer (we have an air gap between our real network and the internets). It's a 333 MHz P2 and running Win2K and FireFox it runs fine, as long as I don't try to use it to watch video. I use it for all of my at-work email, lots of word processing, and viewing and printing PDF's. I also use it to run circuit board design software so I can submit the images over the net to producers.
Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
Do you know anything about sex that you didn't "learn" from trolls on the internet?
Arizona has two universities, the Tucson based University of Arizona (UofA), which has been around for much longer than the Tempe based Arizona State University (ASU). This article was written by people at latter, not the former, so the post attribution is incorrect.
I am glad that there's an 80% chance my old CueCat is being put to good use in a third word country somewhere.
Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
An even lowlier P3 1ghz with 256mb of RAM can run xubuntu (or some other lightweight linux) just fine, and do just about anything the 'average' user would want to do. Surf the web, play online games, email and word process.
There are millions of people in the USA that don't have access to a computer at home, or barely have access to a computer at all. Governments, schools, businesses and individuals routinely discard perfectly good hardware because the windows paradigm has failed them. Recognizing this disconnect has inspired me to take some action in my community, and I am not the only one doing this. We are starting a non-profit called dDivide ( http://ddivide.org/ website redesign on the way ) where we collect donated computers, use volunteer labor to refurbish them and then distribute them where they are needed. We are working on developing programs to include those who are receiving the machines in the rebuild process. Giving computers away isn't enough, they won't be useful if the users can't maintain them!
There is a new site called growingupfree.org which is trying to consolidate the efforts of organizations like mine by connecting us and keeping track of efforts going on in all 50 states.
Efforts like ours could really benefit from Slashdot expertise, please check out growingupfree.org and see if anything is going on in your area. If you have any ideas for me or want help, feel free to contact me at ian@ddivide.org
I have seen the EOL recycling process first hand - I have been out to the warehouses and purchased networking & server equipment. It is great that we can recycle this stuff. The issue here is 88% of your "secure data" will end up back on the market exported to India. Do you trust these people with your data - every server I have purchased from these recycling companies has still had your valuable data on it. If you are a company sending your old IT stock to these places.. sure you have agreements to wipe your data; but does it actually happen??? No! The techs at these places have no idea how to format a SAN array or server drives.. now your data is shipped overseas and in the hands of the worst possible people you could imagine. It makes me sick to the stomach as a Linux Administrator.. but its true. If any corporations read this; I suggest you get an insider to purchase from where you dump your equipment and you will find all your data still on the disks.. what is the point of have network security when this happens? ... there is no point at all.
I swear this is the shocking truth about the recycling business; and you people wonder how all these people get your personal details.. it is good recycling - but companies should take it in their hands to ensure the data is destroyed. Drill a hole through each drive then let them take your ex lease equipment away.
I'm a strong environmentalist, but also strongly support exporting recycling and waste management to developing countries. I think the overriding necessary condition is one of controls over the exportation of waste goods and the methods of waste management. Obviously control over waste management in an autonomous state is highly problematic, but for developing countries that are willing to meet the requirements, the benefits to them and to us are considerable. The protocols and governing legislation necessary to the effective and safe management of wast and recyclables could be a vital link to injecting democratic methods into developing nations. In return we might consider barter rather than hard currency. The process would link us to them and allow for a more tractable means of aiding developing countries at all levels. Moreover the recyclables would introduce them to the amenities of our manufacturing sector and provide a basis for future trade. Breaking down recyclables and waste products according to effective, environmental protocols would also give hands on education in basis technology. Seeing such trade as an 'evil', passing of the costs of waste management and recycling onto poorer nations misses the rich interchange of wealth and technology along with cultural ties such trade can effect.
ideopath @ play
Or the "Das butt" film.
The only thing that I don't like about this is that old, out-of-use copies of ancient software--like maybe the first version of MS Word v.1.0--that maybe COULD be copied & run on these old machines by some 3rd world school kid--CAN'T legally be copied & run because Ballmer & Gates have bought & paid for US legislation making such "copyright infringement" illegal. Cuz Ballmer & Gates need the $$.
that most of the exports of used computers imported by buyers overseas (88%) are really for reuse and repair. Otherwise, people would not pay to import them.
The above is simply silly. The scrap value of computer parts is high - very high in some cases. About a year ago they were especially in demand. PCBs are still in good demand: sometimes for recovery of soldered-on parts, but mostly for recovery of the copper and other valuable metals (gold-plated contacts for example).
I am happy to hear that 88% is being reused before being recycled (mind that most poor countries have much higher recycling rates than developed countries because labour is so much cheaper and also they don't care too much about pollution caused by the recovery of some wastes). Though it is a number that I would call unrealistically high. This considering the large number of e-scrap recyclers in China that are buying computer parts for precious metal recovery.
And it is actually the same with batteries. All kinds of batteries are being collected and exported for profit, sold at high prices to recyclers that are after the various metals used in these batteries.
So really: that people pay money for end-of-life products doesn't mean they are going to re-use it. It just means the scrap has value. And very often this value has to do with valuable materials that can be recovered from this scrap.
Whether it's horizontal or vertical, it can be regarded as the same effect because of netbooks.
Producing an Atom cpu will likely result in a similar amount of waste and impact as a Core2 Duo and if recycling a three-year-old machine to Nigeria saves a OTPC production, it has reduced the amount of new computers being made.
In a world without OTPC or netbooks, there isn't a production of new low end machines, everything is at the top, and your logic worked. But not anymore.
Trying to become famous by taking photos. Visit my homepage please.
(Forgive the randomness) I was in Lima for 6 weeks about a year ago, and the reuse/recycling of old computer equipment is absolutely true - especially old printers and copiers.
Walking through the streets of Lima, even right around the Plaza de Armas but throughout the entire district, you can find dozens of shops that only sell used printers and copiers. They advertise them as new/refurbished from the U.S. and they seem to go for fairly decent prices. I'd never really seen such a sight before in my life - stores absolutely brimming with big, heavy duty copiers.
My mother is dead, you insensitive clod!
The problem I see here, is exactly what was being suggested, by having more choice, you open up the door,
and make more available to all, also doubling if not tripling the advertising per company added. Everybody wins, as now more and more 3rd world countries are trying to become digital, and move forward.
Becoming digital first will allow every sector afterward to grow and expand quicker! If we give them access to the internet, and all the people working there, think how much more p0rn we can get them to download!!!
"Namely, that most of the exports of used computers imported by buyers overseas (88%) are really for reuse and repair. Otherwise, people would not pay to import them."
That's bad logic. There was a good show (Modern Marvels?) that showed a business that paid for e-garbage and processed the (apparently quite large) amounts of precious metals such as gold from the circuits.
That's a pretty good reason to pay to import, but also isn't re-using or repairing the electronics.
while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
In Vietnam, they are still re-making CRT televisions from several, and even polish the front of the tube with an electric polisher. They have spare parts for anything. Even burnt out loudspeakers are rebuilt a new.
In Thailand, they repair the lot too, and in China, where board level repairs are cheap and easy.
In Australia, the 'buyers' demand that waste/ bits are not 'ratted' - so it was always obvious it was NOT going to the crusher or smelter. Container loads go to Columbia, where locals earn $3 a day to record the serial numbers of the incoming - and capably repaired.
The only anomaly in e-waste in these poorer countries is the desire for the latest mobile phones, where it is 'ok' to have a slower computer, as long as it can do 'skype'.
Producing an Atom cpu will likely result in a similar amount of waste and impact as a Core2 Duo
Balderdash!
1 - Computer is A LOT MORE than a CPU and
2 - To produce the same amount of "waste" you would need to produce exactly the same thing in exactly the same facility using exactly the same process.
You don't even get the same results from producing similar Intel and AMD Chips, let alone Atoms etc.
and if recycling a three-year-old machine to Nigeria saves a OTPC production
I have NO IDEA what you are trying to say here. What is OTPC? One Table Per Child?
Did you mean OLPC? If you did, and if you have paid attention to that project (sadly, a failure) you might have noticed several things like:
- That it was intended to run without a power grid, relying on "alternative" means of power,
- That it was intended to cost under $100, but be essentially free for the end user as his/her government would buy it for them,
- That it didn't run Windows. Oh yes... a VERY important feature of "recycled" computers, as you can "recycle" them in-house due to that - by just giving them to the person who only uses (and only knows how to use) MS Word or Excel. Like secretaries, typists and parents.
- That ALL OLPCs had to be MADE. Not a single component was recycled. All brand new.
- That OLPCs were designed to be more like single-purpose appliances, as they were intended to a VERY limited user base.
Let me put it like this...
Recycled PCs have about as much influence on the OLPC project as an update to Windows has to Linux or OSX users.
Unless you are looking into very, very, VERY specific cases there is no connection at all.
In a world without OTPC or netbooks, there isn't a production of new low end machines, everything is at the top, and your logic worked. But not anymore.
Poppycock!
Everything IS at the top - economic or hardware top.
There are no computers being made in third world countries. Everything is made IN or FOR the first world.
Oh yeah, they are "assembled in China" but the MONEY comes from the west.
Even OLPCs, which were intended to be essentially free to third world kids, had to be bought by their governments in hundreds of thousands.
So they actually cost (and had to be produced in) millions. And no kid could just go to the store and buy one - even if it had the money.
Netbooks on the other hand are designed for that very important function of - browsing the internet.
Their buyer is the person with enough extra cash to afford a brand new computer that can be used just for the internet, but which can be carried around in an oversize pocket.
Only the cheapest of the cheap come close to $200 mark and more and more they are rivaling the previous and current notebook class in both price and performance.
OTOH...
If you are actually buying a "recycled" computer and not getting it for free from a family member, you can get one for about $100.
Now... those are actual prices of recycled computers (here they are referred to as "repaired" but they mean more something like "repurposed"), here in Bosnia. Prices are in Bosnian currency.
That is, after they check the machines, clean them up if needed, replace faulty parts etc. they even give you a 12-month warranty - for $100.
And all machines are "brand-name" computers as they are all coming from companies in EU that have upgraded their own workstations and got rid of the old stuff.
Heck... You can get a "like new" 22" SONY Trinitron screen that used to cost over a thousand pounds for about $100.
Now... Bosnia is a third-world country, but on the very frontier of EU. Most these computers are transported here in trucks, privately.
And while labor is cheap it is
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
The main market for computers are not for gaming PCs. By far the major part of the PC market is for "typewriting", net browsing and email. Any old P4 computer can satisfy these needs easily. Whenever somebody want a "gaming PC", 9 times as many people would be satisfied with an older, functional PC (talking worldwide, not the western world). If there are older PCs to be recycled for cheaper, there will be less production of new PCs.
This is also why the major PC manufacturers are so eager for good recycling programs.
Does this mean that there's actually a chance gremlins are using the busted in half cell phone that's sitting on my bookshelf I keep forgetting to recycle? Cus that'd be swell.
I used to live in Venezuela, where most people can only afford these used computers.
If it weren't for used computers, most young people would have a much harder time getting to the digital age. The Internet is still mostly unavailable.
I can't think of any reason the practice could be "controversial". Probably some commie would be saying that you're "sending trash the poor countries". Don't listen to them and keep sending. It's doing much more good than harm.
In our family we recycle computers. When a new one gets bought the computer it replaced gets passed down. Older machines are still goldies with years or even decades of life still left in them. Of course, there is always the Macquarium solution at the end of the line... :)
<rant>
Recently I upgraded enterprise PCs for a living. I quite accidentally found myself in control of 200 each 3-year old PCs that I had to get rid of, and the only condition was that I couldn't sell or dump them. They were P4's, 3.2GHz, with CDRW/DVD combo drives, 512MB of RAM and 30GB HDD, Gigabit networking, of the Ultraslim Desktop variety (I'm glossing over some details here - there were outliers.) They all had Windows OEM COA stickers. I had to wipe the drives, so they were full disk wiped with DBAN and then restored to the original OEM image. They were all thoroughly cleaned and tested by my team because that's how we work. A few didn't pass testing or wouldn't wipe and were discarded or used for parts. (A drive that won't wipe, we shred.)
When I approached my local school district with the opportunity to give them these for free, they were reluctant. They said they couldn't use them in schools but we could maybe work a deal with the local Co-op to provide them to underprivileged students. Mind, the ratio of students to computers in my district is about 1:20, and the budget had no money going forward for a long time. I didn't have monitors, so maybe that was a factor.
Instead we found a local school district which would take them on a slow rollout, with services on a volunteer basis. They still haven't taken half of them and they're in my warehouse gathering dust a year later.
Sometimes this stuff just not make sense. These PCs are going to gather dust until they're worthless and there's nothing I can do about it. Some days I think about plugging them in and running folding on them, but my boss would have fits about the electric expense. The whole point of giving them away was avoiding the expense of scrapping them, but our CFO doesn't see things that way. I have to deploy this crud before he declares it an asset, or I'll never be rid of the duty to inventory it.
I swap out thousands of these things every quarter and it amazes me how poorly the secondhand market works. Third world, first world, it doesn't matter to me. This stuff was manufactured at great cost, it still works, why don't people want it? Even if you had to populate it with RAM at $15 a machine, it runs LTSP just fine. They make a great thin client. You would think schools that don't have enough computers would jump at this but it's not so. I think they're afraid that if they got free PCs they would lose some of their funding to buy PCs, and that's just stupid. I wish I could eBay it, but our partnership deals won't allow it.
This stuff is only going to get worse. The stuff coming into the refurb channel now is more often notebooks or dual-core desktops. It's all 64 bit. Two years from now it's going to be quad core desktops and dual core notebooks. How are people going to justify rejecting that?
Grrr... <end rant>
Help stamp out iliturcy.
These parts that are reused still are heated and taken apart in massive dumps by laborers who dispose of the solder melt on the ground. This information could mislead people into believing that the environment and health is not affected adversely
So you are saying Microsoft has done away with the First sale doctrine? Software companies always claim so, but I don't believe they have done so.
Oh, and your petrol tax example was a bad one. The use is not licensed in that case, they just use the dye to detect petrol which has not been taxed. I'm sure if somehow bought offroad fuel, paid the tax, and could show the fuel in your tank was the fuel you paid tax (this is the kicker), then they wouldn't have a problem with it. It has to do with paying road taxes, not licensing.
Never heard of it. Does it apply in my jurisdiction (either of them)? I suspect not, for the following reason ...
My employers, in their sales contracts, have never permitted resale of software, or of the dongles which secure it's usage. In the past, our control was relatively coarse-grained - version 1.x dongles simply wouldn't work with version 2.x etc - but the tools are more sophisticated now and a client need to get a new set of keys every so-many months (on the dongle's calendar, not the computer's) or hours of use (on the dongle's internal clock). If a client feels the desire to sell the software on to someone else, they can do. But we have no obligation to supply the purchaser with the codes necessary for the software to work.
(A significant proportion of the copies and dongles in existence are "evaluation" copies (priced at a few hundred dollars for administrative costs) or academic copies in universities (priced at zero from the advertising budget). Converting them to a full-price version only requires a new set of codes.)
The dongles are a tool for enforcing the terms of the license. Nothing less, but nothing more either.
It's diesel tax, not petrol tax ; very different fuels.
Road Fund Tax is hypothecated to maintaining the roads, but the tax from fuel sales goes into the general taxation pot. (I see from Wikipedia that the reverse situation applies in some countries.)
But you say it yourself : in the first phrase it's about licensing, in the second case it's not about licensing. Yes, in theory you could enter into a negotiation with the HMCR / DCR (or whatever this year's name is) about a particular batch of fuel ; they may even have an established method of re-marking such re-purposed-tax-paid fuel. The analogy would be as if the buyers of our sold-on software above had entered negotiation with us and brought a license to use the software for (for example) 3 months. We then wait until the cheque clears, and send them a set of codes which would enable the dongle for 12 weeks / 84 days. Or, if a business entity went bust and gave it's discs and manuals to a local university, we might waive the charge and send them 6 months worth of codes for the dongle. But that's our choice ; under the terms of the license, we're not obliged to do anything for them.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"