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Fatty Foods Affect Memory and Exercise Performance

Death Metal writes "Eating fatty food appears to take an almost immediate toll on both short-term memory and exercise performance, according to new research on rats and people. Other studies have suggested that that long-term consumption of a high-fat diet is associated with weight gain, heart disease and declines in cognitive function. But the new research shows how indulging in fatty foods over the course of a few days can affect the brain and body long before the extra pounds show up."

58 of 379 comments (clear)

  1. Anecdotal evidence supports this by Swizec · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Anecdotal evidence everyone is probably familiar with seems to confirm this. When you're at the office all day and decide to eat a pizza for lunch it seems very obvious that you're at least half way out of commission for the rest of the day. I had always assumed it was simply because one gets so stuffed from pizza, but apparently the high fat content played a big role too.

    Needless to say, I'm sticking to my low-fat diet with even more fervor henceforth ... although an occasional blunder feels SO good! Not while working though, this study clearly showed that.

    1. Re:Anecdotal evidence supports this by Fished · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why do you assume it's the fat in the pizza and not the carbohydrate? Relatively speaking, Pizza is at least as high in carbohydrate as it is in fat, if not quite a bit higher.

      --
      "He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
  2. I just had a Mars bar and I want to say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... erm, i forgot.

    Must be early onset alzheimers

  3. Captain Obvious by bmgoau · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Eating unhealthy foods causes health problems. News at 11. Try the new octo cheese burger while you're waiting.

    1. Re:Captain Obvious by Thanshin · · Score: 5, Funny

      Eating unhealthy foods causes health problems. News at 11. Try the new octo cheese burger while you're waiting.

      The news actually are a cleverly disguised "Fat people are dumb".

    2. Re:Captain Obvious by St.Creed · · Score: 2, Funny

      Too clever for me. I think I'll have to cut down on the fat...

      --
      Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
    3. Re:Captain Obvious by value_added · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The news actually are a cleverly disguised "Fat people are dumb".

      They're also more expensive.

      Quoth the article:

      Two years ago, the Cleveland Clinic stopped hiring smokers. It was one part of a "wellness initiative" that has won the renowned hospital -- which President Obama recently visited -- some very nice publicity. The clinic has a farmers' market on its main campus and has offered smoking-cessation classes for the surrounding community.

      Refusing to hire smokers may be more hard-nosed than the other parts of the program. But given the social marginalization of smoking, the policy is hardly shocking. All in all, the wellness initiative seems to be a feel-good story.

      Which is why it is so striking to talk to Delos M. Cosgrove, the heart surgeon who is the clinic's chief executive, about the initiative. Cosgrove says that if it were up to him, if there weren't legal issues, he would not only stop hiring smokers. He would also stop hiring obese people. When he mentioned this to me during a recent phone conversation, I told him that I thought many people might consider it unfair. He was unapologetic.

      Translation for reading comprehension impaired: Obama wants to kill fat people. ;-)

    4. Re:Captain Obvious by radtea · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Eating unhealthy foods causes health problems

      The study is actually very poorly designed and proves nothing of the kind. Your comment is an example of confirmation bias, as are the researcher's conclusions.

      A well-designed study would start half the rats on the high-fat diet, the other half on the low fat diet. Train them to run the mazes, then switch the diets.

      It may well be that the effect being observed here is "massive sudden dietary change reduces cognitive performance."

      If you consider how uncomfortable and distracted you'd probably be if you were subject to this kind of violent dietary manipulation you'll see how plausible the alternative explanation is.

      I share your biases with regard to fatty foods, but that doesn't mean I can't tell a poorly designed study when I see one.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
  4. What's worse by hansraj · · Score: 5, Funny

    On top of all that fatty food leaves you feeling bloated.

    That is why for my short-term memory loss and performance hit in physical activities I prefer marijuana.

    1. Re:What's worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's the fatty foods, not the marijuana that leads to the memory problems!

      I'm just sayin'... ;)

  5. Hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hmmm, what was I going to say? Oh well, back to eating.

  6. Grace period by illm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Switching your intake to a low-carb-high-fat diet involves a grace period a week or so. This is to allow the body to "reshape" itself to use the fat as an energy source instead of the previous intake of carbonhydrates.

    Symptoms of switching away from carbs to fat include; fatigue, dizzyness, high irritability and headache.

    "After only a few days on the high-fat diet, the rats performed 30 percent worse on the treadmill. After five days of testing, the treadmill performance of the rats eating fatty foods had declined by half."

    Any bells? So, nothing previously unknown to the lowcarbers here.

    Personally, I tried the lowcarb-highfat diet about half a year ago, and actually did lose a few kilos, but the most interesting change for me was that I felt more awake, my stomach stopped producing funny amounts of gas, and never ever felt hungry. I got tired of it after a while though - I kinda missed the occasional potato and pasta - so I've taken back the lost kilos again. These days I just don't shun fat and avoid sugary stuff. Both me and my previously upset stomach feels great now.

  7. more high carb propoganda by romeanthem2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    More fat is bad rubbish. I am supposed to believe that eating saturated fat is bad but of course eating lots of carbs is good. Of course the first thing the body does to excess carbs is to convert them to saturated fat in the liver. Why not just eat fat directly and give the liver a break, whilst maintaining my insulin sensitivity? If any one still believes the lipid hypothesis I suggest you log onto Hyperlipid and spend some time reading.

    1. Re:more high carb propoganda by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It is written so it is true?

      Sorry, but "if you don't believe me, look there" is no way to prove anything. I mean, the earth is 6000 years old, if you don't believe me, read the Bible...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:more high carb propoganda by Delifisek · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Totally agreed.

      3 years before I start to work from home. My daily activity nearly zero. I sit chair every day. And I don't do any sport activity. Even barelly walking. Then I begin to gain weight. Probably I reach somewhere 125 kg.

      2 months before I watch a documentary about eating Macs and dropping weight. Commentor says he was on low carb diet.

      So I say why not ?

      I Cut every carb, coke, icecream, sugar, bread, rice, pasta, cookies, chips even water mellon. And begin to eat meat etc.

      Guess what ?

      I'm melting man. I'm melting while I eat same amount of food. My skin get better, I do not get hugry as before. My wounds heal faster.

      Now I'm about 110 kg. It was very nice to drop weight while, sitting and eating barbecue.

      I just wonder what if I goto fitness center and do for example one hour working a day.

      Just drop your blood sugar level. Your body will recover.

      --
      [My english is better than most other people's Turkish, so please point out mistakes politely. Thank you.]
    3. Re:more high carb propoganda by romeanthem2 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Glad you are losing weight. My opinion on exercise depends upon how overweight you are, and what you plan on doing. The damage to your joints from running is massive if you are heavy, and so is not worth doing. Walking is generally fine for almost everyone, and will benefit your health. Strength training is great, so is joint mobility work. Be careful of intense exercise, it can greatly increase your appetite and then you go on a massive binge, negating the point of the exercise completely.

    4. Re:more high carb propoganda by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 4, Funny
      I was 250kg, then I took up alligator wrestling as a hobby.

      Now I have lost an arm and a leg, and my weight has fallen drastically ...

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    5. Re:more high carb propoganda by value_added · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I Cut every carb, coke, icecream, sugar, bread, rice, pasta, cookies, chips even water mellon. And begin to eat meat etc.

      It's worth pointing out that doing so means your grocery bill will tend to go up. Not a bad thing, of course, but in a world where people demand things being cheap (i.e., subsidised, or the product of industrial farming techniques), it may be difficult for the average person to see the value in doing so. Chickens, for example, were once upon a time considered "special" and eaten at most once per week. Today, we expect them at the drive-thru window.

      Moreover, in tough economic times, the average person will want to lower the amount of money they spend, not increase it for "non-essentials" like healthy food. Poor people doubly so. From least to most expensive, our buying choices could be crudely summarised as:

      1. Dirt
      2. Refined Sugar or Corn Syrup
      3. Carbohydrates
      4. Protein
      5. Fruits and Vegetables
      6. Fats (Olive Oil, Butter, etc.)
      7. Nuts
      8. Champaign, Caviar or Hookers

      So replace protein with carbohydrates if you can. I have lots of wealthy friends who do just that and demand fresh fish (fresh grilled salmon seems the most popular choice) on a daily basis. Those same people are quick to offer up factoids such as "Walnuts are a perfect food" without worrying that they cost more per pound than expensive cuts of meat. By contrast, the poor people I know typically limit their choices to refined sugar and carbohydrates.

      Granted, protein is available from different sources (beans, dairy, meat from various animals) at different costs, but most of will always prefer the meat variety to form the basis of our diet.

      As for the conclusions of the article, I'd raise the question that if you've succeeded in getting a happy dose of fat into your system at one indulgent sitting, what need or motivation is there for cognitive thinking? It may be that your body is telling you to just enjoy the feeling and do nothing else. Put another way, eating a pint of ice cream is not unlike smoking a joint; it's supposed to be its own reward. If you expected to be doing something else (like drive, work, operate heavy machinery, or do math), then maybe you made the wrong choice. ;-)

  8. High-fat, but no carbs by sopssa · · Score: 3, Interesting

    However how does it compare when you drop almost all carbohydrates and bring your body into ketosis? I always feel really energetic then, after "fat" food too. This doesn't include such fatty food than pizza and deep fried fries, but high-fat and high-protein meat, fish, ground beef and so on. Pizza and such is completely different, I think it comes from when you mix fat and carbohydrates (either "good" or "bad" ones) together.

    Also my stomach feels a lot better when eating high-fat/protein food with next to nothing carbs. I also get much more work done that way when I feel great after eating too.

    So definitely there is differences in body when eating fat together with carbs, and when eating fat but without carbs.

    1. Re:High-fat, but no carbs by sopssa · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Just to note before someone comes saying, that drop to ketosis takes 3-5 days and you shouldnt eat more than 15-20g of carbs a day. After 6-7 days your body has adjusted and you start feeling really really great and you have a lot more energy than previously, and wont hungry all the time. But it takes that period to adjust your body into it, so you cant just try it 1-2 days and say you feel like shit.

    2. Re:High-fat, but no carbs by CrashandDie · · Score: 2, Informative

      Low or no-carb diets are bad.

      Just get on your bike or lift dumbells. Killing your body by removing a required nutrient isn't a diet, it's stupid. Probably as much as vegans.

      Simple equation: energy in == energy consumed. If that is not the case, you're doing it wrong. You obviously have enough self-discipline to prevent yourself from eating things you decide, so why not have the self-discipline to do the same using a healthy diet and some exercise?

    3. Re:High-fat, but no carbs by jamesh · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Low or no-carb diets are bad.

      I remember watching a doco on low-carb high protein diets. They found that atkins was on to something, not with the low carbs but with the high protein. The group that had to have a lot of protein but could additionally eat anything else they wanted didn't actually end up eating much of anything else. The high protein seemed to cut down the cravings for snacks, snacks being what ruins most otherwise good diets.

      Simple equation: energy in == energy consumed.

      I don't think it's quite that simple for everyone. I've been through periods of eating really badly (high fat takeaway for lunch every day for weeks on end) and then really healthy, with identical exercise level (~none), and my weight never moved outside the 69-71kg range that i seem to have been stuck at for the last 5-10 years. I've added up the calories I intake vs the exercise I do (next to none) and by all calculations I should be a balloon. 69-71kg would be about right for my height if there was a bit more muscle on me.

      If I don't eat very regularly (eg breakfast at 8am, i'll need something fairly substantial by 10am) I get the shakes and start feeling really really spaced out and crave sugar. If I continue to not eat it kind of settles down and I start feeling a bit normal again but a few hours later i'll get a horrible headache that won't go away for days even with painkillers (although something with a lot of caffeine helps at bit if it goes that far). I've been tested for diabetes and hypoglycemia several times over the years and nothing has showed anything out of the ordinary... i assume i'm just a bit more sensitive to small drops in blood sugar levels than most people.

    4. Re:High-fat, but no carbs by bjourne · · Score: 3, Informative
    5. Re:High-fat, but no carbs by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If your body takes in more fat/protein/carbs etc than it needs it will either excrete them or store them... which it does depends partly on your genetic makeup, but more so on your recent pattern of diet/exercise

      If you have a healthy balanced diet and do adequate exercise (not very much, and could be normal activity) then occasionally eating unhealthy foods will do no long term harm, your body will not need the extra, and does not think it needs to store it so will simply excrete the excess ....

      If you starve yourself of food, or one type of nutrient then when you eat it your body will store any excess, because it thinks times are hard, this is why proper nutritionalists do not recommend mono diets (like Atkins) and when they do advise short term unbalanced diets, then they make sure you come off them slowly so this reaction does not occur ...

      Atkins has been proved to work for two reasons, you are on a diet and are having to watch what you eat and you tend to order ordinary meals and then not eat part of it ... so you eat less, and it is high protein so you are getting enough energy so you feel full ....so no snacking, but as a long term diet it is unhealthy and when you stop you can't just go back to a unheathly diet ....

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
    6. Re:High-fat, but no carbs by machine321 · · Score: 5, Funny

      We knew about the affects of a high-protein diet LONG before Atkins.

      Perhaps, but my wife still won't fall for it.

    7. Re:High-fat, but no carbs by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, sure, but please show me the great Inuit civilization. Oh, there is none?

      All great civilizations had one in common: the use of agriculture.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    8. Re:High-fat, but no carbs by tchuladdiass · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I always wondered why many people are constantly in a particular weight range, no matter what, even if that range is about 20 - 30 pounds higher than what it should be. My theory: Say you start putting on extra weight. That is more weight you have to carry around during your normal activities. So you burn more calories during the day, which causes you to drop back down to the upper end of your range. Now if you go on a health kick (not necessarily a crash diet) and drop 30 pounds, then go back to your normal routine. All of a sudden you are burning fewer calories a day than you did prior to losing weight, simply because you aren't carrying that extra 30 pounds with you wherever you go.

      So the solution to effective weight loss? Wear a weighted belt around your waist. Every time you drop 5 pounds, add another 5 pound weight to your belt (or add the weight to it first, and you will naturally lose that 5 pounds without trying).

    9. Re:High-fat, but no carbs by Guse · · Score: 5, Insightful
      1) It's unfortunate that you had to stoop to an ad hominem attack in an otherwise decent rebuttal. It really is.

      2) You're basically wrong on virtually every account. There *is* ample evidence that low-carb diets are bad for your brain, heart and kidneys.

      3) The Inuits lack of farming couldn't have much to do with the fact that they lived in the freakin Arctic Circle, could it?

      "Again, there is ample evidence to show that some people (as in many thousands) have consumed well under 2000 calories a month for decades, in the form of carbohydrates, while doing hard physical work - and wound up grossly obese. Just as others (usually much wealthier) have eaten far more than 2000 calories a day for years, while doing little or no physical work, and remained lean and fit."

      Really? Under 2000 calories a day and hard work and gotten obese? Please provide this ample evidence.

      My theory, developed after I lost 60 lbs, was that whenever you have two things that are diametrically opposed like low-fat, high carb/low-carb, high fat is that the answer is most frequently in the middle. Moderation in both (including carbs, a necessary source of energy) leads to great results. But, that's just my anecdotal evidence talking.

    10. Re:High-fat, but no carbs by jandersen · · Score: 3, Informative

      What you replyto may have been uniformed and biased, but you are not much better, I think - you sound almost religious.

      AFAIK carbohydrates in any form are not required nutrients. At least, there are plenty of documented cases of people living long, happy, healthy, productive lives without ever tasting them. The Inuit, for instance, used to regard plants as unfit for human consumption, and would never touch them unless they were starving. OTOH there is evidence that excessive carbohydrates (or possibly the wrong kind) can gradually bring about insulin resistance, obesity, and eventually diabetes.

      You know wrong, then. Humans, being apes, basically, need a typical ape-diet: mostly fruits and other not too tough plant material supplied with some meat, most of which ought to be insects. Fruits contain lots of carbohydrates, and meat actually contains some too; it's not all protein. I don't know where you have that about the Inuit from, but I find it unlikely that they would shun any source of food, when they live in such harsh conditions. When you put forth such claims, you really need to give proper sources, otherwise they are simply not convincing.

      What it is that brings on insulin resistance and diabetes is still very much open to debate. The only thing we are almost certain we know is that a varied diet and exercise is the best way to avoid it. The modern western diet is incredibly montonous in terms of its basic composition, and more so if you live on processed food, which is more or less made from industrial waste and additives (OK, I admit it, not 100% accurate, but still uncomfortably close).

      Simple equation: energy in == energy consumed

      There is nothing wrong with this equation as such; it really underlies it all. Where the complications come in is in how to consistently eat less than we need for a prolonged period of time, when we are surrounded by easy calory-options all the time. Any one who has been on a diet knows how desperately hard it can be - and it is not even the feeling of hunger that is bad, it is the fact that your body plays all sorts of tricks to make you abandon your diet; suddenly your motivation is all gone, suddenly you don't feel fat at all and so on. No, it really is as simple as eating less than you need, and that really is so difficult.

      Again, there is ample evidence to show that some people (as in many thousands) have consumed well under 2000 calories a month for decades, in the form of carbohydrates, while doing hard physical work - and wound up grossly obese. Just as others (usually much wealthier) have eaten far more than 2000 calories a day for years, while doing little or no physical work, and remained lean and fit.

      Hard evidence, please? As you say, it is "ample", so it should be easy to produce. And I think you probably mean 2000 kcal a day; only dead people consume less than 2000 kcal a month, and they don't generally look fat too me.

      Yes, that's right - join the bulk of the scientific, medical, and political establishments - and the big food manufacturers who fund them - and blame the victims. It might be possible to do as you suggest if they would tell us what constitutes a healthy diet. Most intelligent, open-minded people who have taken the trouble to inquire about the subject and researched it widely for years must be quite bewildered by now.

      So, you don't include the medical scientists in those that have researched the subject for years? Interesting. Still, you are misrepresenting things here - what the scientists say has not varied wildly over the years; the fact that you have to eat less than you need if you want to lose weight has never changed; but as we learn more about why people eat and how the body reacts to it, we also have to change our opinion about how to manage the difficult task of losing weight in a healthy way. And of course it doesn't help a lot that every time a new scientific finding is published, it is taken away by some money grabbing idiot, who then trumpets it as the new, sensational diet of the moment.

    11. Re:High-fat, but no carbs by DrLang21 · · Score: 2, Informative

      The problem with extra weight (depending on where you're starting off) is that it's hard on the joints of your body and the extra effort to do anything makes you less likely to get up and move around. I would advise against wearing weights unless it's part of a controlled training program.

      --
      I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
    12. Re:High-fat, but no carbs by DrLang21 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Unless you've figured out how to defy the laws of thermodynamics, energy in == energy out applies. Period. Every calorie you consume must go somewhere and every ounce of fat you have must come from a calorie you consumed.

      --
      I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
    13. Re:High-fat, but no carbs by plague3106 · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is bullshit. They've done numerous studies disproving it. The people that are thin are ACTUALLY EATING LESS than the people that are fat. Thats what is always boils down to.

      http://medicalmyths.wordpress.com/2008/08/20/obesity-is-not-caused-by-slow-metabolism/

    14. Re:High-fat, but no carbs by scorp1us · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You are too dependent on your stomach to supply your blood sugar. I had this same problem in my 20s. While it is scary to be shaking if you wait a few hours you'll be fine. However it is no way to live going to meal to meal and just barely making it before the shakes set in.

      Insulin stores excess blood sugar to fat so you don't going into a coma. Glucagon is the opposite, taking fat and putting it in the blood stream as sugar. Insulin work on short (15 minute) time scales. Gucagon work on hour/day time scales. It takes 3 days of no carbs to bring your glucagon levels up to the point of fully being able to provide al the blood sugar you need. Both glucagon and insulin have an inverse relationship. If your insulin is high, then glucagon is shut off. (You don't want it constantly providing blood sugar when you are about to go into a coma.

      So what is happening in your body is called hyperinsulinism. You eat something, feel better, you burn some store the rest. Then your blood sugar drops below cellular satiation level. You feel hungry and get the shakes. You reach for more food as the cure... The same thing happens with rats. Take a rat, put it in a cage and provide it two sweetened water sources, one sugar, and the other a synthetic 0 calorie sweetener. At the start of the experiment, it will drink from both equally. But of the course of a few days it will only be drinking from the sugar one. Insulin makes you dependent on insulin because of its fast acting nature compared to glucagon.

      I broke the cycle by not eating simple carbs. No sugary drinks, and no breads. Complex carbs like beans are ok. Basically a low-glycemic index diet is what all adults should be on. One benefit of this is with my near-zero carb diet, I can go an entire day without eating an not be hungry or tired. My glucagon level stays elevated and I am in a constant fat-burning mode. If I get hungry it is only because I ate carbs about 4 hours before. (I do allow one day a week to let loose and have cake. It seems that at zero carbs all the time I'd get dizzy and sick whenever I ate them because the rush of blood sugar was too much. I lost my lunch a couple times that way) If you are hungry, the best thing to eat is something that will slowly digest with lasting energy. Proteins are great but won't fix your immediate hunger. The trick I do is this: liquid carbs - like a Vitamin Water 10 (25 cals/bottle) fast acting, then eat something at the same time to provide a longer-duration energy source.

      I cannot recommend a low-carb diet enough. It is so liberating. The Aborigines have a saying along the lines of "Western man looks at his watch to see when to eat" which highlights the differences between our diets. We are constantly looking for our next meal because of the carb/insulin dependence caused by our diets. They don't share the diet or the addiction. FYI: A person with a modest 10% body fat can live for a whopping 30 days on those reserves. What you experience in hunger intensity is not proportional to your survival predicament.

      FYI: the "Atkins" diet was known to work in the 1800s, when it was called the "Banting diet" after Charles Banting whose physician recommended it. It worked so well he went about sharing it with the world.

      I highly recommend everyone read "Good Calories Bad Calories" by Taubes, which is a fantastic book that critically examines what the mainstream media claims about diet.

      --
      Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
    15. Re:High-fat, but no carbs by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I will not dignify that remark by asking for a citation.

      Why was it that European civilizations took over large parts of the world, and not e.g. the Chinese or Indian peoples?

      'Advanced' civilizations are far more dependent on horses, iron, livestock, and certain grains than innate intelligence. You can't think up iron deposits no matter how much rice you've been eating.

      How did European settlers displace the Native Americans? With pigs, cows, sheep, barley, wheat, steel, and the diseases that come from living with livestock. They did not introduce agriculture to the Americas, nor did they outthink the native populations. They simply had a better set of native species to work with.

      Please read Guns, Germs, and Steel, to obtain a general overview of the subject at hand. If you must justify your latent racism somehow, then I imagine any criticism of that work would provide you with a base for further argument.

      --
      Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
    16. Re:High-fat, but no carbs by yabos · · Score: 2, Informative

      People doing ketosis will usually have a carb up once per week. The reason is to replenish your body's glycogen(glucose+water) storage which contained in your liver and muscle.

      Ketosis diets like the anabolic diet work extremely well for a lot of people. Carbs are not a required nutrient if you define required as needed to sustain life. Your body can live off of fat/keytones just fine. People who feel like shit on keytosis diets are most likely not doing it right. The first week or so when your body is transitioning is tough but after that you should not feel bad. If you are not eating enough fat then you will feel bad.

    17. Re:High-fat, but no carbs by spectro · · Score: 2, Informative
      People doing ketosis will usually have a carb up once per week

      Not quite, at least what Atkins proposes is that you regulate your weight gain/loss by increasing/decreasing your daily carb intake while ingesting a high-fat diet, in short:

      • Start with 20g of carbs a day for 2 weeks (induction phase, to deplete your glycocen reserves)
      • Add 5g carbs a week until you no longer lose weight, subtract 5g to it, that is your Ongoing Weight Loss (OWL) carb amount (if you no longer losing weight at 60g carbs a day, then 55g is OWL)
      • Keep eating your daily OWL carbs until you reach your weight goal.

      People who feel like shit on keytosis diets are most likely not doing it right

      Correct, the key to trigger ketosis is HIGH FAT, about 60% of your daily calories must come from fat. This is the most controversial point of his diet due to the never-proven medical belief that "eating fat makes you fat".

      Dr. Atkins clearly wrote in that book that you should not keep induction phase forever, nor you should stop eating carbs at all. It just tells you that you can eat as many calories as you like as long as most of them are from fat while keeping carbs in check. Also high-protein doesn't work, he claims excess protein gets metabolized into glucose making the diet counterproductive.

      --
      HTML is obsolete. It's time for a new, simpler and richer markup language.
    18. Re:High-fat, but no carbs by arminw · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ....This year it is fat that is bad for you, next year it is carbs, next year it is red meat, next year refined sugar, etc....

      How right you are! It is not those things in themselves, but the fact that all of them have been denatured by modern industrial food processing. Eskimos for example eat predominantly fat and are perfectly healthy doing so. In the Philippines and Pacific Islands, people eat lots of fat, coconut fat to be exact and are very healthy on the native diet. It is only when they switch over to the modern Western diet, when they get sick. It is not fat per se that is bad, but the KIND of fat and what is done to it with industrial processing. Vegetable oils, with the exception of olive oil, are extracted under high heat and pressure, but these fats are damaged by these processes and should be avoided. The same is true of hydrogenation, which is what is done to margarine and fats such as Crisco. Frying foods with these fats under high heat damages these fats even further, so that eating them is akin to eating glass shards on the molecular level. The pasteurization of milk destroys almost all of its enzymes, that in nature help the calf, and by extension the people, to digest it. The homogenization of milk keeps the milk fat particles in suspension by making them very small. They've become so small as a matter of fact, that they are able to pass directly through the intestinal wall into the bloodstream, where they help clog your arteries.

      White sugar and white flour also have many nutrients stripped out of them, that nature originally had in the wheat grains and sugar cane plant. Also with today's artificial fertilizer agriculture, the soil has been depleted and so the plants grown in them are not as healthy anymore. The healthiest diet is one that consists as much as possible of organic fresh foods together with other products that have been minimally processed from their natural state. The bottom line is fairly simple. It costs money to stay healthy. In the end you will either spend your money for better quality food in the grocery store, or you will spend it at the doctor's office and in the hospital.

      --
      All theory is gray
    19. Re:High-fat, but no carbs by sjames · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Funny thing thermodynamics. It always works but only if you do a sufficiently complete analysis.

      I used to have a car that could go 10 miles on the energy in 1 gallon of gas. My current car goes 30 miles on that same amount of energy. It goes a bit less if I run the A/C (back when that worked).

      Energy in == energy out except that that energy out can be heat from resting metabolism, more or less heat generated for the same amount of exercise, energy going right through and coming out in waste or consumed by bacteria in the gut (more heat, more energy in waste), and on and on.

      The sleight of hand is in the implicit (and incorrect) equation of energy out == exercise.

      A prominent example is protein starvation (AKA rabbit starvation). The human body can only convert about 1600 Kcal/day worth of protein. The rest is wasted. You can go on a strict protein only diet of 10,000 Kcal a day and lose weight, but you'll feel quite sick doing so.

  9. Motivation by bencollier · · Score: 5, Interesting

    No-one seems to have spotted the fact that the rats who were being fed fatty food may have had less motivation for completing the maze, given that the reward was more food. Am I missing something or is this entire study invalid?

    1. Re:Motivation by IBBoard · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think you must have missed part of the study. They explained before-hand to the rats that if they completed the maze then they'd get good quality food instead of McDonalds drippings (the coagulated fat from frying, in case it is a British thing) but they still couldn't make themselves do any better ;)

  10. I suppose the type of fats or source should matter by Shivetya · · Score: 4, Interesting

    because while I can chow down on an ounce, usually more, of almonds which are high in fat it does not "seem" to affect me as much as if I am eating foods the pizza you mentioned.

    I am curious what the break down is. As in, which fats are good/bad for the tests they performed. Now I will state in my case I bloat less from fatty foods compared to carb laden food and I have far less trouble with my sugar levels as well. I think we are missing some key information from this article.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
  11. Experiment flawed - *change* in diet the cause? by Ed+Avis · · Score: 5, Insightful
    From the article:

    To determine the effect of a fatty diet on memory and muscle performance, researchers studied 32 rats that were fed low-fat rat chow and trained for two months to complete a challenging maze.

    And then later, some of the rats had their diet changed to a high-fat diet and others kept the same diet as before. But perhaps they just performed worse because the diet differed from what they were used to? To make a fair experiment there should also be a group of rats who were fed on a high-fat diet for two months during training, and then switched to low-fat for tests. Perhaps their performance would worsen too.

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    -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
  12. what fats? by tick-tock-atona · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm assuming these are saturated or trans-fats, which are known to cause disease and are already suspected to contribute to neurological disorders such as Alzheimer's Disease, rather than polyunsaturated fats are supposedly good for you. Neither TFA nor the study abstract indicate what they actually fed the rats.

  13. Well.. Article is right, kind of.. by sw155kn1f3 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's very surprising that these scientists don't read basic articles in their field.
    Anyone who read at least one article at this topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_index knows that eating 50% fat, 50% carbohydrates will make your insulin spike like hell, much worse than just eating all that fat and carbs but separately separated by 2-3 hours.
    Insulin spike will cause direct hit on your glucose levels to the point of hypoglycemia, hence the fatigue and slow brain + longterm increased body fat. As a result you're hungry very fast and still have no energy.
    Just eat them separately.
    Or take more powerful approach with carb cycle diet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carb_cycling
    It works. I feel great all the time. Was not the case on Atkin's or any other food plan I ever been on (was obese since childhood, now not).

    --
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  14. Re:n/a by Anoraknid+the+Sartor · · Score: 3, Funny

    .. all the participants were rats.

    Make what you will of how that applies to Americans...

    (Although applying the results of animal studies to humans is always best done with caution.)

    --
    Find Japanese addresses in English on Google Maps Japan: http://diddlefinger.com/
  15. Grain lobby propagaunda by mr_stark · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm always amused when this kind of research comes out, talking about how fats are bad for you. Its much more complex than that. You really should be measure total calorie amount not just fat content. Too many calories is bad full stop. As other posters have mentioned the lack of energy is probably only a short term effect of switching to fat as a fuel source. I've switched over to a high fat/low carb diet (F50/P30/C20) and have no issues with lethargy or lack of concentration. I've got no problems with day to day programming tasks and haven't encountered any strength or endurance degradation in the gym.

    I'm of the option that fat - esp saturated fat - is a much heather macro nutrient that carbs. The only carbs that the human digestive system can process in a raw state is sugar (think fruit), starch can be converted to sugar also but most of the other so called healthy carb sources needs processing before humans can consume them. Potatoes have to be cooked (try eating raw potatoes and see what happens), as does rice, wheat and grains have to be ground down into a powder. Fat on the other hand can be eaten straight off the animal. Humans aren't evolved to eat significant amounts of carbs.

    --
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    1. Re:Grain lobby propagaunda by Caue · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Potatoes don't have to be cooked - thay are just better when cooked. My mother used to make me eat raw potatoes whenever I had stomach problems - it levels the acidity.

    2. Re:Grain lobby propagaunda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm always amused when people who think they know better make fools of themselves.

      There are plenty of carbs that humans can digest without cooking -- fruit, nuts, vegetables. Not all grains have to be ground down into a power, either -- ever heard of the term "whole grain"? And what is wrong with the need to cook a food before you can eat it -- how does that automatically make it "bad"?

      If your diet works for you, that's good. But please don't spread bullshit.

  16. Re:I suppose the type of fats or source should mat by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Polyunsaturated fats - Good
    monounsaturated fat - Good
    Staturated fats - Bad
    Trans-fats - Very Bad

    Almonds mostly contain monounsaturated fat which can lower your cholesterol ....

    --
    Puteulanus fenestra mortis
  17. I had always been told about cannabis' effects by Provocateur · · Score: 2, Funny

    on (takes long drag) ... on...what was that again? Fatty foods, right, right...

    --
    WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
  18. Ridiculous by Fished · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is typical of the sorts of studies that try to support the low-fat hypothesis. In this case, the problem is that they didn't give sufficient time to adjust to the new diet. It appears that the rats were only given 4 days to adjust to the high-fat diet, compared with weeks on the low-fat diet. The problem is that when the body switches from burning carbohydrates to fats, the fuel the brain uses changes from glucose to ketone bodies. As anyone who has tried a low-carb diet can tell you, for the first several days (a week or two for some people--no idea what it would be for rats) you feel rather dull and drained for several days. Then one day the "brain fairy" arrives and you have more energy, physically and mentally, than you've had in years.

    I spent years as a near-vegetarian on a very low-fat diet and what it got me was literally 200 lbs. overweight and type 2 diabetes. I've now lost 46 lbs. on a low carb diet getting about 60% of my calories from FAT, my type 2 diabetes is basically cured, and I feel better than I've felt in at least ten years. My lipid profile has also improved dramatically.

    Every study done thus far looking at low-carb vs. low-fat has shown that low-fat is a failure (read the studies, not just the blurbs or the conclusions). Think about it... over the past 20 years, Americans have reduced their fat intake by 25% and type 2 diabetes has increased by 1000%, heart disease has become MORE prevalent, strokes have become MORE prevalent. The Low Fat experiment is a failure. And make sure to read "Good Calories, Bad Calories" by Gary Taubes.

    --
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    1. Re:Ridiculous by evilviper · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Every study done thus far looking at low-carb vs. low-fat has shown that low-fat is a failure (read the studies, not just the blurbs or the conclusions).

      Not true in the slightest. In fact, controlled studies comparing the various diets, side-by-side, have found minimal differences between the various approaches.

      In short, eat whatever the hell you want, but eat less of it fat ass! You'll be healthier person if you're 140lbs surviving on potato chips than if you're 300lbs with a well-rounded diet.

      Anyone claiming their diet plan has any special benefits if either a shill or a fool. If it existed, we'd all know about it by now. Instead, people keep trying every diet, and the population just keeps getting fatter.

      Fat, carbohydrates, processed sugars, dairy... eat whatever, just cut down on the calories and you'll lose weight... It's a simple and fundamental law of physics. Simply, find a way to lose weight and you'll get much healthier, and feel much better, rather than being a useless fat blob.

      When I had no refrigeration for about a month, and I survived drinking almost nothing but cans of soda, I lost close to 10 pounds. When I was surviving entirely on fast food, I lost weight. When I was surviving almost entirely on carbs (rice, pasta, bread, ramen, etc), I lost weight. 55 pounds later, I can say with confidence, all the trendy diets, and nutritional scare tactics are pure idiocy.

      --
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  19. Fatty foods make you more stupid? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 2, Funny

    I already knew that there was a link between consuming high quantities of fatty foods and prevalence of low intelligence, but I thought that was because the kind of lard-arsed troglodyte who shovels burgers, fries, and extra large pizzas down their excessively jowled chins do so in front of the television.

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  20. Re:I suppose the type of fats or source should mat by rackeer · · Score: 2, Informative

    References?
    I read articles about nutrition and cognition some time ago. In general high energy expenditure and low energy intake have about the same effect (however rather long-term as far as I recall). "Exercise and the brain: something to chew on" listed this food as potentially beneficial (though effects are not well-studied yet):
    - omega-3 fatty acid (e.g. fish oil),
    - some teas,
    - fruits,
    - folate (vitamin B9),
    - spices, and
    - other vitamins.

    In another article, "Impact of Energy Intake and Expenditure on Neuronal Plasticity", I found that saturated fats and cholesterol increase the risk of cognitive decline.

  21. Re:I suppose the type of fats or source should mat by Type44Q · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I believe your observations are accurate and your suspicions [that the type of fat is what matters] are entirely correct.

    In the 80's, the 'health food' movement was, for the most part, focused on 'low fat' diets. We've since learned that not all fats are created equal; some (your almonds for example) are incredibly beneficial to the body, actually among the most nutritious things you can consume (some other foods that come to mind are avacados and flax seeds, which are incredible healthy [i]because[/i] of their fat).

    Obviously in addition to fats we also need proteins, vitamins, minerals... but what we DON'T need are the grains (in general; refined flour in particular), dairy and low-grade cooking oils (I'm going to leave the whole vegetarian thing for another day)... and you've experienced first hand what inundating your system with that shit will do to you. The fact of the matter is that we humans just began eating grains and dairy products yesterday, in evolutionary terms, and our bodies don't have a fucking clue what to do with them (there's evidence that letting some of these products be fermented by beneficial bacteria - yogurt, tempeh in the case of soy - allows our systems to process them better).

    I've developed a simple method for determining whether or not I think something might be appropriate for me (i.e. let me feel and perform my best): I try to picture a chimp or gorilla chowing down on it in the wild; if I can't, I assume it's probably not the best thing for me to eat. As for whether or not my willpower allows me to avoid eating it... that tends to vary. ;)

  22. Re:I suppose the type of fats or source should mat by hey! · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's a good point. More than once, early research and nutritional advice on "fats" has been shaded by later research which distinguishes between kinds of fats. The heart dangers of "fat" turned out to be for saturated fats. Then we decided that trans fats, which are unsaturated, are even worse. Then we decided that conjugated linoleic acid, is good, and that's a trans fat.

    I suspect that fats are the one nutrient where the "organic" movement got it right. Foods naturally high in fat are probably better than foods manipulated to increase their fat content. Free range beef is not only leaner than feedlot beef, it has more of the omega 3 fatty acids that we associate with fish; fats that seem to have heart, blood pressure and possibly cognitive benefits. Fats are as different from each other as a poodle from a pit bull.

    So the research, while important, isn't enough to make any kind of dietary adjustments that haven't been warranted by prior research. It seems almost certain that if it can be replicated, it will not be replicated with all kinds of fats.

    Additionally, I see a flaw in the methodology -- as reported of course. We can't trust the media to get it right. The researcher was performed on rats who were rewarded by food for performing tasks. Unless the researchers controlled for the greater satiety value of fat, you'd expect the fat fed rats to perform less well. You could get the same results by testing rats who had just eaten versus ones that had been fasting for a short time.

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  23. Rat metabolism != human metabolism by jpstanle · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Among all the other flaws with this study, I'm surprised nobody else has pointed out that this study was performed with rats who have a vastly different diet than humans. Freshly hunted meat certainly is not a primary portion of a rat's diet, whereas historically speaking, it is for humans.

  24. a high carb diet by circletimessquare · · Score: 3, Insightful

    is like punching your pancreas: it spikes sugars in the blood, abusing your insulin making mechanisms

    a high protein diet

    can destroy your kidneys, put you in ketoacidosis, etc., etc., and other such nonsense scare tactics

    did you know water can KILL you!?

    look: eat carbs: complex unprocessed grains, so your blood sugars rise and fall slowly

    eat protein: good sources like fish and egg that have biotin and omega-3s for brain health

    and eat fat: good fats like olive oil. you actually want fats in your bloodstream, that's what hdl is. ldl deposits plauqes, hdl sweeps them up

    so what do you do about the food you eat? you eat wholesome complex little processed foods, you eat them in moderation, and you get exercise

    that's it, that's the magic

    for those of you slurping down mountain dew at 3 am and eating bacon cheeseburgers all day: you're taking years off your life. which might be fine with you. in which case, when you read articles like this, toast a cheer your devil-may-care lack of interest in taking care of yourself, and congratualtions on less women being interested in you and your health problems in your 30s and 40s

    life is short, take care of your body. it hardly means much now, but you will hate yourself in your 60s if you treat your body so badly. or, you could feel like you are in your 30s when you are in your 60s. its up to you. no pain (temporary, addiction like withdrawal from unhealthy foods now), no gain (a longer, richer life)

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