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Why the BSA Is Less Reviled Than the RIAA

Hugh Pickens writes "The Business Software Alliance (BSA) is a trade group established in 1988 representing a number of the world's largest software makers whose principal activity is trying to stop copyright infringement of software produced by its members, performing roughly the same function for the software industry that the RIAA performs for the music industry. Yet, as Bill Patry, author of a 7-volume treatise on US copyright law and currently Senior Copyright Counsel at Google, notes on his blog the BSA is a 'far less unpopular organization' than the RIAA because there are three key differences between the BSA's campaigns and the RIAA's. First, BSA's members have always offered their products for sale to the public, through any channel that wants to sell them. Second, BSA's members are consumer-oriented; they try to develop products that respond to consumers' needs, and not, the reverse: focusing on what they want to sell to consumers. Third, because consumers can easily purchase BSA's members products, those who copy without paying are simply scofflaws. 'I think the fact that the public does not object to BSA's campaign proves my point [that]... people do not want things for free; they are willing to pay for them,' writes Patry. 'It should not be surprising that when consumers are not treated with respect, they react negatively. That's something the software industry learned long ago, and that's why people don't object to the BSA's enforcement campaign.'"

27 of 371 comments (clear)

  1. Ernie Ball by symbolset · · Score: 5, Informative

    Let's not forget the Ernie Ball story.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
    1. Re:Ernie Ball by steelfood · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The BSA has its own repertoire of evil deeds, but it still doesn't invalidate the point of TFA. The fact is that most people and businesses buy the software that they use, unless it is prohibitively expensive. And even in the latter case, there are educational copies available to be had for a low price or for free.

      Here's the thing though: when Windows XP goes off the market for good, I'll bet there'll be a lot more businesses pirating it, because Microsoft will be doing the opposite of the reasons listed in the TFA: forcing companies to buy their newest product (Windows 7) instead of allowing them to buy what they want (Windows XP).

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    2. Re:Ernie Ball by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Typically they won't even fine you, unless what you're doing is particularly egregious or blatant. Normally they're perfectly happy if you just purchase the licenses to cover the gap between what you have licensed and what you are using.

    3. Re:Ernie Ball by CastrTroy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sure you can have lots of RAM for quite cheap, but most people won't ever need that much RAM. On my current work machine, I rarely go over 1.5 GB, even when I'm running a lot of stuff. At home, I don't even think I've ever reached 1 GB of memory usage. Maybe when using things like VMs, you need all this memory, but most home and office users have no need for anything close to 4 GB of RAM. Cheap machines are coming with 4 GB of RAM simply because Vista is such a hog, and 2 GB is the bare operational minimum. If you're running XP, which is a much leaner OS, there isn't much of a use for having more than 2 GB of Memory.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    4. Re:Ernie Ball by Chabil+Ha' · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think that's the real difference here. BSA targets more the business, whereas the RIAA targets ordinary consumers.

      On another note, however, it would be interested to know the union of those who violate software copyright (not just businesses, but ordinary consumers) and those who do so with music.

      --
      We're all hypocrites. We all have hidden parts, it's the contrast between them that make us more a hypocrite than others
    5. Re:Ernie Ball by ngg · · Score: 4, Informative

      [snip] You're forgetting a very large demographic: The people who already have old hardware and/or software, and need an OS compatible with it. And, by hardware, I don't just mean CPUs, motherboards, disc controllers, etc. I'm really talking about *expensive* hardware, like the data acquisition cards, and *expensive* software, like LabVIEW and Origin, that professional scientists use. I mean, seriously, have you ever looked at the list price for a full version of LabVIEW? It's like $20k *per* *seat*. Oh, and the older versions are not compatible with Windows Vista or Windows 7. In our case, being forced to buy new licences for application software make upgrading our data acquisition systems from XP to a newer version of Windows about a $45k affair. And what new value to we get for it? Nothing. Abso-fracking-lutely nothing that we don't already have from XP. And don't talk to me about RAM. 640MB ought to be enough for anybody. [/rant]

    6. Re:Ernie Ball by WaywardGeek · · Score: 4, Interesting

      so it's the customer's fault.

      Nonsense. This is precisely the problem the article describes. Just publish in PDF. We all (customers, that is) want it in PDF. Every book reader out there can read it, and free translators exist for almost any format you want. Every other format out there for e-books is designed to keep the users from doing what we want, which is to copy it from one of my devices to another. Listen to what we customers want, and forget what you want to sell me. It's really pretty simple. I want to read it on my netbook, kindle, or smart-phone. I want my screen reader to speak it to me. Quit restricting me from using your books, and let me buy them!

      --
      Celebrate failure, and then learn from it - Nolan Bushnell
    7. Re:Ernie Ball by I'm+not+really+here · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is that if I swap out a bad motherboard on my XP computer, it insists that I call Microsoft to re-validate the installation using their automated system. Once that automated system is gone (due to the product being discontinued), if I upgrade the motherboard or have too many other hardware changes, I have two options: buy a new OS, or break the law by circumventing the copyright on the software I personally own.

      That is a problem.

      --
      Before commenting on the Bible, please read it first
    8. Re:Ernie Ball by Sun.Jedi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In spite of the pissing match about Ernie's original intentions, free vs OSS, etc... I see upside to retelling this story. Namely, he claims he is running an efficient (apps you NEED, not what comes bundled), high uptime (no MS virus du jour or upgrade parade), and economical (no brand new hardware) business without MS-Windows, MS-Office, MS-Exchange.

      FFS. It runs linux successfully.

    9. Re:Ernie Ball by Fluffeh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When you go after a business and they are using software for something, it means they are making money off it. Even in the case that they get handed a fine or two, people don't see it as bad "hey, you stole something and are making money off it" where on the other hand, being handed a stiff fine for having a few songs really reads like "you stole something for the smallest of pleasures and it's not like you are using it for personal profit" which has a very different tone with the public.

      If the RIAA chased after someone who is pirating and selling CD's by the carload, I am SURE that there wouldn't be a huge public backlash of anger. The guy is stealing and turning a profit, go get him boys. But Joe Schmo listening to a few songs on an ipod being sued into lifelong financial ruin? That's just not right.

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    10. Re:Ernie Ball by Technician · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They try to make you license all your pc's even those not running Windows so anything that Could run Windows has a license.

      It is the Ernie Ball story that convinced me to get legal and move off Windows entirely. Some license terms define piracy and software theft in a strange way.

      I get evaluation copies (engineering samples) of CPU's. Some software manufactures that are members of BSA consider transplanting an OS from one retired machine to a new box as theft.

      Having one license for a copy of an office suite and having it installed on several boxes where I am the sole user is also considered theft.

      Due to the license for this type of software and the BSA, I have ceased these practices and am using a competing product that doesn't frown on the way I use software. Due to the EULA, I still am running one box that is a PIII to run some Windows only software. Upgrading to a new motherboard, memory, hard drive, box, and the latest 6 core CPU is considered software theft.

      Maybe someday the software manufactures will learn to listen to their consumers.

      In the meantime, there are alternatives.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
  2. Less sympathy for companies by east+coast · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Let's be honest here. If the RIAA was sueing a company for using music in an unauthorized fashion at their place of business most people would shrug. When you're using a product to make money you normally get much less sympathy than if you were using it for private use. And even when a company follows the rules the public still doesn't normally feel too bad about them getting the screws.

    And, AFAIK, the BSA isn't busting kids downloading Grand Theft Auto.

    --
    Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
    1. Re:Less sympathy for companies by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I was surprised by the headline. The BSA's tactic of requiring companies to be audited and then pay large amounts for any product that they can't prove that they own makes them pretty unpopular. The only difference is that they chase companies rather than individuals, so to most individuals they are irrelevant. If you run a small business, I suspect you'll have a lot more hostility towards the BSA than the RIAA. Being able to avoid interacting with the BSA is a very strong argument for persuading a company to adopt an open source stack.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:Less sympathy for companies by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The BSA's tactic of requiring companies to be audited and then pay large amounts for any product that they can't prove that they own makes them pretty unpopular.

      They seem to be a pretty popular way for disgruntled IT employees to screw over their employer though. Every BSA audit I've ever heard of or been involved in came about because of some employee or ex-employee with an axe to grind.

      I've always wondered what happens if you refuse to let them onto your property. Presumably their only recourse would be to sue you and obtain access to your computer systems through the discovery process. Given the "speed" with which the court system moves I wonder if you could have the whole operation switched over an open source movement by the time it reached that point?

      Alternatively what happens if you claim trade secrets or privacy restrictions (HIPAA?) on your computer system?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    3. Re:Less sympathy for companies by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Interesting

      My understanding is that if you refuse them access, they'll show up with a sheriff and a court order allowing them access.

      We went through one of Microsoft's SAM not-an-audit-but-really-an-audit last spring. I had taken over the tech position, and everything had been in a bloody mess. Worse, most of the licenses had belonged to the organization which the organization I work for had bought. Naturally, there were many supposed licenses which the former tech guy had assured me existed which did not exist, and I ended up uninstalling about fifteen copies of Office 2003 Pro because I simply could not find any evidence that they had been purchased. Fortunately I had several copies of Office Basic and the like (mainly they need Outlook anyways), so I managed to keep within the licenses that I actually had physical evidence of.

      Of course, the MS SAM guys are pricks. There was about two months of back-and-forth, and in the end my "rep" (or so this turkey insisted he was) claimed that five of my Server 2003 CALs weren't strictly valid because they were put on a volume license version of Server 2003, and they were retail CALs, and I was either going to have to change them to device CALs or buy five new ones through volume licensing.

      At that point I got really pissed off and basically told the guy he was just trying to nitpick to try to get me to spend a couple of hundred bucks for licenses that we already owned, and for which Microsoft had already been paid. The guy did back off, though I think he was pretty pissed that he hadn't got a dime out of us. I in fact did need more licenses for a file server, but after my experience with Microsoft's license extortion department, I said "fuck it", installed a Samba member server, finally mastered Posix-to-Windows ACL mapping, and basically could give a shit. I'm down to one DC per location, enough to handle authentication and roaming profiles, I've installed OpenOffice wherever I can, and basically have no intention of buying any more MS products.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    4. Re:Less sympathy for companies by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Informative

      How is it that you can use a computer and yet be functionally illiterate?

      I'm mad because I have a Server 2003 install with a 5 CAL pack that, according to the SAM rep, was invalid because I bought it retail as opposed to through volume licensing (because, apparently, the server software was bought through volume licensing).

      Now go and shove pencils up your nose, or some other menial activity that's likely within the limited scope of your intellectual abilities.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  3. Who they sue by fyoder · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think it's a lot simpler than that. Because the BSA attacks businesses, not disabled single mothers, children, and the dead, fewer people even know about them. They haven't gone as far across the line into cartoon super villainy.

    --
    Loose lips lose spit.
    1. Re:Who they sue by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because the BSA attacks businesses, not disabled single mothers, children, and the dead, fewer people even know about them.

      Also, while their behaviour has not been perfect, as far as I know the BSA has never systematically and deliberately gone after parties who are probably innocent. While they have been known to try to pull audits and such under somewhat dubious circumstances, it's usually at least responding to a tip-off.

      Big Music and Big Movies, on the other hand, have frequently and systematically attacked legitimate consumers, and run campaigns of intimidation based on at best dubious legal claims and misleading advertising.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  4. Value of music vs value of software by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Software has an intrinsic value. To a business, the return on investment from a piece of software is something that can be measured. Spreadsheet software, for example, makes accounting many times easier and cheaper than trying to keep the books in books.

    But music (and to a lesser degree video) has no intrinsic value. It is something enjoyed passing time. Like a frisbee at the park or a cup holder in a car. It's something that is nice to have but ultimately unnecessary.

    If anti-copyright proponents would be unhypocritical, they would demand that software be downloadable for "sharing" among friends. That they only make this claim for music shows and video shows that there is a fundamental difference between software and music in their minds. I attribute this to the ephemeral nature of music, something which can be enjoyed but in the end has no real value.

  5. This is the same BSA by canajin56 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    whose EULA's allow them to conduct raids and search+seizure, and hand out $100,000 fines for having one workstation that has XP installed, but they can't find the License that came in the box (The CD sleeve with the key is NOT proof of license, and you WILL get a fine if you only have that!) My OEM copy of Vista that came with my laptop doesn't seem to have the hologram encrusted license that my boxed copy of 2000 came with, so I imagine I'm automatically guilty if they ever send in the SWAT team for a surprise inspection.

    --
    ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
  6. Are we forgetting the obvious? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That the BSA goes after companies, and the RIAA goes after individuals? Do we really need to go hunting for reasons why joe-on-the-street dislikes an outfit that might send lawyers after him more than an outfit that gets involved in a bunch of boring disputes between corporations and their suppliers? Srsly?

    Obviously, I'm sure corporate officers, shareholders, IT guys, (and, of course, Ernie Ball) don't like the BSA much; but their numbers are tiny compared to "the public" at large. Even if only potential victims disliked the RIAA(as opposed to potential victims and anybody who has heard the "and then they sued some poor lady who didn't even own a computer" stories) that is probably greater than 20% of the population.

    It may also be that the BSA is nicer in some way, though I'm not wildly sold on the notion; but this isn't rocket surgery.

  7. Huh? by ausoleil · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "First, BSA's members have always offered their products for sale to the public, through any channel that wants to sell them"

    Try to buy an obsoleted version of a program to run on an old platform. Got an old IBM-XT? Where are you going to purchase a legit copy of Lotus 1-2-3 not to mention DOS? But you *can* be sued for pirating them, at least technically.

    "Second, BSA's members are consumer-oriented; they try to develop products that respond to consumers' needs, and not, the reverse: focusing on what they want to sell to consumers."

    Did someone at Microsoft write this?

    "Third, because consumers can easily purchase BSA's members products, those who copy without paying are simply scofflaws."

    See the first reply, but "easily" is in the eye of the beholder. A typical recent college grad who wants to freelance graphics design work might say "easily"purchasing Adobe's Creative Suite is all but impossible for their finances. Yes, I know there are FOSS alternatives, but the truth is that the ad/graphics/printing world runs on Adobe. For example.

    None of that makes stealing software or music content right, but the rationale for BSA being less unpopular is not the reasons cited above. It may be far more simple: BSA doesn't typically sue consumers, it seems that they typically go after businesses.

  8. Re:Don't bite the hand that feeds you by Sj0 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Why should I trust you? You're not even buffer safe.

    --
    It's been a long time.
  9. False assumptions? by westlake · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If the RIAA/MPAA is so reviled - why is it that "the jury of his peers" hammers the file sharer into the ground when these cases go to trial?

    The geek is quick to assume that he is representative of the larger community of which he is a part.

    That everyone believes in his right to his free media fix.

    But when things go wrong - these assumptions are never seriously questioned.

    It is easier to take refuge in loose talk about the incompetence of the lawyers, the jury and the bribery of the judge.

  10. Some things they don't tell you by Rastl · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Every member company of BSA has been found to have 'unauthorized software' [citation needed] but of course those aren't reported to the media like the rest.

    I did asset and software management for 15 years before finally being able to dump the whole mess on someone else. Every license was tied to a purchase order and every purchase order was tied to a machine. Whenever we got a new Microsoft rep (since they were the majority of our products) I would show them the huge lateral filing cabinets with every license in order. Yeah, they're going to try to pull an audit on us.

    I did get a call from the Microsoft 'legal' department once trying to tell us that we didn't have enough Exchange licenses for a company our size. When I asked which company, since we had 15 affiliates, they couldn't tell me. And when I told them that only 2 affiliates used Exchange and the rest were Lotus Notes they got truly confused. At which point I essentially told them to fuck off until they could get their facts straight. Surprisingly I never heard back.

    Yes, the BSA uses disgruntled employees as their main source of information and they pay for it. They're evil and while I have no pity for companies that buy one license and install on fifty machines the BSA tactics and fine structure completely suck.

  11. Strawman by langelgjm · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If anti-copyright proponents would be unhypocritical, they would demand that software be downloadable for "sharing" among friends. That they only make this claim for music shows and video shows that there is a fundamental difference between software and music in their minds.

    Really? I think if you actually went and asked people who make that claim for music and video, they'd say the same thing for software. Most of the "anti-copyright" arguments I've heard revolve around the nature of IP itself (being non-exclusive and non-rival) and don't have anything to do with "the ephemeral nature of music." Sounds like you've just set up a strawman.

    Also, not that "anti-copyright proponent" is the right way to describe RMS, but he certainly does argue that free software should be shareable - it's one of the four freedoms.

    --
    "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
  12. Another reason by wcrowe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Another possible reason the BSA is not vilified is that they do not sue 12 year olds.

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    Proverbs 21:19