i4i Says OpenOffice Does Not Infringe Like MS Word

I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "After the permanent injunction barring Microsoft from selling Microsoft Word, many armchair lawyers and pundits wondered how the ruling would affect OpenOffice. The company with the patent, i4i, believes that OpenOffice does not infringe upon it. But lest anyone think that therefore ODF will win out over OOXML, keep in mind that Microsoft has its own broad XML document patent, which issued just two weeks ago, having been filed in December 2004, and they're telling the Supreme Court to apply the Bilski ruling narrowly, so that it doesn't invalidate patents like theirs (and i4i's). After all, unlike most companies and individuals, Microsoft can afford $290 million infringement fines. Then again, given that Microsoft's new patent has only two independent claims (claim #1 and claim #12), and both of those claims 'comprise' something using an 'XML file format for documents associated with an application having a rich set of features,' maybe they wouldn't be that hard to work around if you just make sure any otherwise infringing format is only associated with an application lacking in the feature richness department."

Comments

The MS patent does not affect ODF.

[Adaptux]

The claim about the MS patent affecting ODF is not true. See here for details.

Re:The MS patent does not affect ODF.

[quarterbuck]

It would not matter what a third party thinks as long as i4i thinks it is not infringing. Unlike trademarks, patents do not expire unless enforced. So i4i is within rights to sue Microsoft and not Sun. And anyway the common practice is to sue the ones with most amount of money and who can be convinced to pay -- It is difficult to ask for a cut of sales when OpenOffice is free (for most part). To add to that there is the fact that large Open Office installations are in Europe where the patent won't apply anyway.
Of course things might change when Oracle completes the purchase of Sun.

Re:The MS patent does not affect ODF.

[sumdumass]

Actually, the patents will apply most everywhere in Europe. There are several agreements concerning this. You can find out more at the WIPO site which lists almost all the "IP" related treaties. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on the case, the law of the land of the violation (Whatever European country) will most likely prevail which could be worse or better depending on the country.

Re:The MS patent does not affect ODF.

[CSMatt]

Unlike trademarks, patents do not expire unless enforced.

Wrong. Patents expire in 20 years, but can not be invalidated unless enforced.

Re:The MS patent does not affect ODF.

[Anonymous Coward]

Absolutely nothing but Abreu apparently doesn't like to do any investigation into the small company who produced the product that Microsoft once used and then infringed upon their patent. After all it's patriotic American Microsoft versus the Evil Canuckstainian Horde (i4i) .......

Oh what the hell -- hey morons do a very little research and you'll find out the small company produced the software before Microsoft 1) approached them 2) partnered with i4i and used their work then 3) infringed on the patent

It's an attempt at Embrace Extend Extinguish .... but this time Microsoft got nailed because the i4i has a viable patent and a working product

Re:The MS patent does not affect ODF.

[Zordak]

large Open Office installations are in Europe where the patent won't apply anyway.

Actually, the U.S. patent will not apply at all in Europe, or Mexico, or China, or Japan, or anywhere else. It's strictly national. It looks like there's a Canadian patent in the family, but I don't see any others (with the caveat that I am not offering legal advice about whether or not this is patented or not in any particular country).

Re:The MS patent does not affect ODF.

[Zordak]

...and, it looks like we had a little problem with the href tag. The Canadian patent shows up here.

Re:The MS patent does not affect ODF.

[Miseph]

The patent owner may hold that opinion right now... they might not hold that opinion in the future, and until they put it into some sort of legally binding statement (which I seriously doubt they have) it doesn't mean a damned thing.

Re:The MS patent does not affect ODF.

[Anonymous Coward]

IANAL but I believe that the term is Estoppel and it doesn't take a lawyer to put an estoppel into place either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoppel

But the article doesn't quote anyone from i4i so the we can't be certain that ODF is clear. If i4i puts out a public relations statement or something of that sort stating that ODF does not infringe upon their patent then they have applied an estoppel to an infringement case against ODF on this particular patent.

Re:Gold digging?

[Adaptux]

It's a decision based on the facts of the matter. OOXML has a mechanism (called "CustomXML") which does what the i4i patent describes. ODF doesn't have anything like it.

Re:Apply Bilski forcefully with unilaterally

[Anonymous Coward]

Bilski only dealt with 'method' claims. The 1st set of claims 'system' claims were not discussed by Bilski.

Bilski dealt with 101, whether certain methods qualified as patentable subject matter. Bilski has nothing to do with obviousness or novelty (sections 103 and 102 of 35 U.S.C the laws dealing with patents)

Re:No matter who wins

[maxume]

Yeah, that's how The Adventures of Superman radio show undermined the Klan:

http://www.ferris.edu/JIMCROW/question/july09/

Bilski bites both ways

[icebike]

> and they're telling the Supreme Court to apply the
> Bilski ruling narrowly, so that it doesn't
> invalidate patents like theirs

Microsoft is in a bit of a bind here. Even raising Bilski arguments puts their patent in question as well as providing ammunition for any future challenges of Microsoft patents.

Their best bet is to pretend they never heard of Bilski and find other grounds for their challenge, or just license i4i's technology to preserve their own claims.

A pox on both their houses.

actual explanation

[Anonymous Coward]

This piece by Amy Wohl is the only writing on this subject that comes remotely close to explaining what is going on.

In short, i4i's patent only covers some specific use of XML that is only widely used in the medical field. Microsoft is violating that particular patent.

i4i is apparently not claiming that they own a patent against all of XML or anything.