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Neural Networks-Equipped Robots Evolve the Ability To Deceive

pdragon04 writes "Researchers at the Ecole Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne in Switzerland have found that robots equipped with artificial neural networks and programmed to find 'food' eventually learned to conceal their visual signals from other robots to keep the food for themselves. The results are detailed in a PNAS study published today."

39 of 116 comments (clear)

  1. Mhm by alexborges · · Score: 5, Funny

    I mean, yesterday, they built an certified evil robot. Today they made a lying one....

    Cant tag it for some reason but... what could possibly go wrong?

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    NO SIG
    1. Re:Mhm by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm sure these people know what they're doing... /Famouslastwords

    2. Re:Mhm by netruner · · Score: 5, Funny

      Wasn't there also a story a while back about robots fueled by biomass? This was twisted to mean "human eating" and we all laughed.

      Combine that with what you said and we could have a certified evil, lying and flesh eating robot - What could possibly go wrong indeed.....

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      DISCLAIMER: This post was not checked for speling and grammar- if you complain- you're a whiner
    3. Re:Mhm by skine · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, Cracked.com used this news story to determine how stupid the user bases of a few websites actually are.

      Slashdot got two stupids out of ten.

      http://www.cracked.com/blog/which-site-has-the-stupidest-commenters-on-the-internet/

    4. Re:Mhm by thoi412 · · Score: 2, Funny

      This is only alcohol consumption away from being Bender!

      --
      "Whoever loves instruction loves knowledge, But he who hates correction is stupid." Proverbs 12:1 (NKJV)
  2. Define deception? by Rival · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is quite interesting, but I wonder how the team defines deception?

    It seems likely to me that the robots merely determined that increased access to food resulted from suppression of signals. To deceive, there must be some contradiction involved where a drive for food competes with a drive to signal discovery of food.

    1. Re:Define deception? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The question of what exactly constitutes deception is a fun philosophical problem but; in the context of studying animal signaling, it is generally most convenient to work with a simpler definition(in particular, trying to determine whether an animal that doesn't speak has beliefs about the world is a pile of not fun). I'd assume that the robot researchers are doing the same thing.

      In that context, you essentially ignore questions of motivation, belief, and so on, and just look at the way the signal is used.

    2. Re:Define deception? by odin84gk · · Score: 5, Informative
      Old news. http://discovermagazine.com/2008/jan/robots-evolve-and-learn-how-to-lie

      These robots would signal other robots that poison was food, would watch the other robots come and die, then move away.

    3. Re:Define deception? by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Old News (even covered by Slashdot):

      http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/08/01/19/0258214/Robots-Learn-To-Lie?art_pos=1

      Gizmodo reports that robots that have the ability to learn and can communicate information to their peers have learned to lie. 'Three colonies of bots in the 50th generation learned to signal to other robots in the group when then found food or poison. But the fourth colony included lying cheats that signaled food when they found poison and then calmly rolled over to the real food while other robots went to their battery-death.'

    4. Re:Define deception? by capologist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, but not flashing the light near food seems like a simple matter of discretion, not deception.

      I'm not constantly broadcasting my location on Twitter like some people do. Am I being deceptive?

    5. Re:Define deception? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Informative

      In the specific, limited, not-all-that-similar-to-ordinary-english-usage, sense of "deception" I suspect that they are using, there really isn't much of a difference.

      If a species has a discernable signalling pattern of some sort(whether it be vervet monkey alarm calls[with different calls for different predator classes, incidentally], firefly flash-pattern mating signals[amusing, females of some species will imitate the flash signals of other species, then eat the males who show up, classic deceptive signal] or, in this case, robots flashing about food), adaptive deviations from that pattern that serve to carry false information can be considered "deceptive". It doesn't have to be conscious, or even under an organism's control. Insects that have coloration very similar to members of a poisonous species are engaged in deceptive signalling, though they obviously don't know it.

      Humans are more complicated; because culturally specified signals are so numerous and varied. If twittering your activities were a normal pattern within your context, and you started not twittering visits to certain locations, you would arguably be engaged in "deceptive signaling" If twittering were not a normal pattern, not twittering wouldn't be deceptive.

    6. Re:Define deception? by CarpetShark · · Score: 2, Funny

      but I wonder how the team defines deception?

      You'll never know for sure.

    7. Re:Define deception? by pinkushun · · Score: 2, Funny

      They say repetition is good for a growing mind. They say repetition is good for a growing mind.

    8. Re:Define deception? by holmstar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My dog knows that he can get away with doing things that he isn't supposed to do if I'm not looking. Sometimes I'll notice that he is staring at me from across the room... usually that means that he is up to something, and will try to do whatever it is if I look away for long enough. Sneaky little bastard.

  3. The next step is clearly... by billlava · · Score: 5, Funny

    A robot that learned not to flash lights that would give away the location of robot food to its competitors? The next step is clearly a robot that learns not to flash lights when it is about to wipe out humanity and take control of the world!

    I for one welcome our intelligent light-eating bubble robot overlords.

    1. Re:The next step is clearly... by julesh · · Score: 4, Funny

      The next step is clearly a robot that learns not to flash lights when it is about to wipe out humanity and take control of the world!

      It's something that hollywood robots have never learned.

      Next thing you'll be saying that terrorists have learned that having a digital readout of the time left before their bombs detonate can work against them...

  4. Mis-Leading by ashtophoenix · · Score: 3, Insightful

    To use the term "learned" for a consequence of evolution to what seems to me to be a Genetic Algorithm seems mis-leading. So the generation that emitted less of the blue light (hence giving less visual cues) was able to score higher, and hence the genetic algorithm favored that generation (that is what GAs do). Isn't this to be expected?

    --
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    1. Re:Mis-Leading by Chris+Burke · · Score: 3, Interesting

      To use the term "learned" for a consequence of evolution to what seems to me to be a Genetic Algorithm seems mis-leading.

      "Learned" is a perfectly good description for altering a neural network to have the "learned" behavior regardless of the method. GA-guided-Neural-Networks means you're going to be using terminology from both areas, but that's just one method of training a network and isn't fundamentally different from the many other methods that are all called "learning". But you wouldn't say about those other methods that they "evolved", while about GA-NN you could say both.

      Isn't this to be expected?

      It's expected that the GA will find good solutions. Part of what makes them so cool is that the exact nature of that solution isn't always expected. Who was to say whether the machines would learn to turn off the light near food, or to turn on the light when they know they're not near food to lead other robots on a wild goose chase? Or any other local maximum.

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      The enemies of Democracy are
    2. Re:Mis-Leading by ashtophoenix · · Score: 5, Funny

      who's to say we aren't all very evolved GA's ?

      The Creationists!

      --
      Life is about being a Phoenix!
  5. Deception is not always evil. by vertinox · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In this instance they were playing against other robots for "food".

    In that regards I'm sure that is the evolutionary drive for most species in acquiring meals and keeping the next animal from taking it away from him.

    Like a dog burying a bone... He's not doing it to be evil. Its just instinctive to keep his find from other animals because it helped his species survive in the past.

    --
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    -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    1. Re:Deception is not always evil. by Flea+of+Pain · · Score: 3, Funny

      Like a dog burying a bone... He's not doing it to be evil.

      Unless he has shifty eyes...then you KNOW he's evil.

      --
      Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
    2. Re:Deception is not always evil. by alexborges · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Intent is of no importance.

      Evil deeds are evil.

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      NO SIG
    3. Re:Deception is not always evil. by Anachragnome · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Unless, of course, the robot already has sufficient food and is simply stockpiling for the future. This in itself is not a bad thing, until such tactics prevent other robots from getting just the bare necessities they need to survive.

      Obviously, this is simply survival of the fittest, but are we talking about survival of the fittest, or are we talking about keeping ALL the robots fed?

      At this point we have to decide whether or not the actions of hoarding are good for the stated goal of having so many robots in the first place(why build so many robots if we didn't want them around?).

      Greed, without malicious intent, is still greed. The summary should read "Robots learn greed" rather then "Robots learn deception", if that is the case.
       

    4. Re:Deception is not always evil. by jemtallon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I disagree. Evil is not a factual property naturally accuring in the universe. It is not something that can be scientifically measured. It is something we humans have created and assign to the world around us. Different people and groups of people define different things and actions as evil. Sometimes those definitions are directly opposed to each other.

      Since evil deeds are not inherently evil, only subjectively judged to be, any number of factors can be used to make said judgements. Contrary to what you've said, intent is a very common factor in determing what is evil and that which is said to be "not evil," or good.

      For instance, the act of a human killing an animal could be seen as evil or good based solely on that human's intent. If the human killed the animal out of idle boredome, many would call that act evil. On the other hand, if that human killed the animal out of necessity to survive, many would call that good. Of course, PETA would likely call both evil. And there may be some who would call both good.

      Many legal systems are built on the notion that laws exist to promote the good and/or punish evil. Many account for intent and weigh their judgements based on it. For instance, in the US, there are varying degrees of penalties for murder depending on intent. In some cases, there is no penalty as the action is considered justified, as is the case with self-defence.

  6. Re:why program a robot to find 'food' by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This wasn't really a robotics experiment, as much as it was a group dynamics/behavioral experiment that used robots.

  7. Not really that impressive. by lalena · · Score: 5, Interesting

    From the article, staying close to food earned the robot points. I think a better experiment would be a food collection algorithm. Pick up a piece of food from a pile of food and then return that food to the nest. Other robots could hang out at your nest and follow you back to the pile of food or see you going to your nest with food and assume that the food pile can be found by going in the exact opposite direction. Deception would involve not taking a direct route back to the food, walking backwards to confuse other robots...
    I've done Genetic Programming experiments using collaboration between "robots" in food collection experiments, and it is a very interesting field. You can see some experiments here: http://www.lalena.com/ai/ant/ You can also run the program if you can run .NET 2.0 through your browser..

  8. Then the robots learned to lie about the food... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    and thus were politicians born...

  9. Soon they will realize by gubers33 · · Score: 3, Funny

    That if they kill the humans they will have nothing stopping them from getting more food.

    --
    Just because you are wrong and I called you out on it doesn't mean I am a Troll.
  10. decepticon by FooAtWFU · · Score: 4, Funny

    They have a light, which at first flickers randomly; they learn to turn the light off so that other robots can't tell where they are. To my mind that's not really sophisticated enough to qualify as "deceptive".

    Yeah. It's more like the robots are hiding from each other. You could, in fact, describe them as "robots in disguise".

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    The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    1. Re:decepticon by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2, Funny

      Patentable?

  11. Re:Hardly deceptive by CorporateSuit · · Score: 4, Informative

    From just reading the summary, I guessed that the light went on when the robot found food, and that other robots would move towards those lights, because they indicate food, and that some robots evolved to not turn on the light when they found food, so they didn't attract other robots, so they had it all to themselves, which would be an advantage.

    The summary didn't include enough information to describe what was going on. The lights flashed randomly. The robots would stay put when they had found food, and so if there were lights flashing in one spot for long enough, the other robots would realize the first robots had found something and go to the area and bump away the original robot. The robots were eventually bred to flash less often when on their food, and then not flash at all. By the end, robots would see the flashing as a place "not to go for food" because by that point, none of the robots would flash when parked on the food.

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    I am the richest astronaut ever to win the superbowl.
  12. Re:The robots didn't learn... by jasonlfunk · · Score: 5, Interesting
    (Fixed formatting)

    FTA: The team "evolved" new generations of robots by copying and combining the artificial neural networksof the most successful robots. The scientists also added a few random changes to their code to mimic biological mutations.

    The "scientists" changed the code so that the robots didn't blink the light as much when it was around food. Therefore other robots didn't come over and therefore got more points then the other robots. The "scientists" then propagated that ones code to the other robots because it won. The AI didn't learn anything.

  13. Re:The robots didn't learn... by guybrush3pwood · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The AI didn't learn anything.

    I think you're right. If the robots had, without reprogramming, efectively turned off their blue lights, then we could talk about "learning". Or, if the robots could reproduce based on their success on finding food, we could talk about evolution. Or we could make up new meanings for the words "learning" and "evolution" thus making the statement a correct one ;)

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    Perhaps I'm trolling, perhaps I'm not.
  14. Re:HAL runs for Congress by jd2112 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Nonsense, How can a computer have an extramarital affair.

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    Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
  15. Re:The robots didn't learn... by zippthorne · · Score: 2, Informative

    Or, if the robots could reproduce based on their success on finding food, we could talk about evolution.

    That's exactly what happened. There is a whole field of optimization strategies known as "Genetic Algorithms" which are designed to mimic evolution to achieve results. In fact, their successes are one of the best arguments for evolution, given that they are, by definition, controlled laboratory experiments in the field.

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    Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  16. No, they did "learn" by Chris+Burke · · Score: 4, Informative

    The "scientists" changed the code so that the robots didn't blink the light as much when it was around food.

    No, they didn't change the code. The Genetic Algorithm they were using changed the code for them. You make it sound like they deliberately made that change to get the behavior they wanted. But they didn't. They just let the GA run and it created the new behavior.

    The part about adding random changes, and combining parts of successful robots, is also simply a standard part of Genetic algorithms, and is in fact random and not specifically selected for by the scientists. The scientists would have chosen from a number of mutation/recombination algorithms, but that's the extent of it.

    The "scientists" then propagated that ones code to the other robots because it won.

    Yes, because that's what you do in a Genetic Algorithm. You take the "best" solutions from one generation, and "propagate" them to the next, in a simulation of actual evolution and "survival of the fittest".

    The AI didn't learn anything.

    Yes, it did. Genetic Algorithms used to train Neural Networks is a perfectly valid (and successful) form of Machine Learning.

    If you mean that an individual instance of the AI didn't re-organize itself to have the new behavior in the middle of a trial run, then no, that didn't happen. On the other hand, many organisms don't change behaviors within a single generation, and it is only over the course of many generations that they "learn" new behaviors for finding food. Which is exactly what happened here.

    With the domain of robots, AI, Neural Networks, and Genetic Algorithms, this was learning.

    --

    The enemies of Democracy are
  17. Re:The robots didn't learn... by Chris+Burke · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think you're right. If the robots had, without reprogramming, efectively turned off their blue lights, then we could talk about "learning".

    They reprogrammed themselves between 'generations'.

    Or, if the robots could reproduce based on their success on finding food, we could talk about evolution.

    Such as choosing which versions of the robot to use in the next 'generation' based on their score in the current generation, and randomly combining parts of those best solutions to create new robots for the next generation, sounds pretty close doesn't it?

    --

    The enemies of Democracy are
  18. A more advanced experiment... by Baron_Yam · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'd love to see the robots given hunger, thirst, and a sex drive. Make 1/2 the robots girls with red LEDs and 1/2 the robots boys with blue LEDs.

    Make the food and water 'power', and give them the ability to 'harm' each other by draining power.

    The girls would have a higher resource requirement to reproduce.

    It'd be interesting to see over many generations what relationship patterns form between the same and opposite sex.

    1. Re:A more advanced experiment... by muckracer · · Score: 2, Funny

      > I'd love to see the robots given hunger, thirst, and a sex drive. Make 1/2
      > the robots girls with red LEDs and 1/2 the robots boys with blue LEDs. Make
      > the food and water 'power', and give them the ability to 'harm' each other
      > by draining power. The girls would have a higher resource requirement to
      > reproduce. It'd be interesting to see over many generations what
      > relationship patterns form between the same and opposite sex.

      I can tell you:

      First the girl robots would seductively blink their red LED's at the boy
      robots.
      The boys get all silly and start swarming around the girl trying to get close
      to her.
      The boy with the biggest hydraulics then gets the girl and they roll off into
      some dark corner for playing with their cross-over cables and rolling around
      swapping oil and stuff.
      A few weeks later the girl robot will barf neon-green liquid all over the
      place, especially in the mornings. While she'll get increasingly cozy among
      lots of spare-parts the boy robot is frantically rolling around at 2am trying
      to get some yummy special machine oil, all the while freaking out about how
      his care-free life with his roboddies is now over.
      A few months later the clatter of little wheels is heard and the now coupled
      robots take countless pictures with their integrated cameras and send them via
      infra-red to every other robot that was built on the same assembly-line. They
      will not notice the deliberate Out-Of-Memory errors of the recipients.
      So far so good, until eventually the two start chirping at each other about
      the little things of robot-life. The woman will harp on the partner bot, why
      she always has to wipe off the nasty-smelling exhaust-buildup's of junior,
      that she has not seen a metal polisher in months to make herself shiny and how
      she should have anyway listened to her Mom warning her not to get involved
      with a guy with obviously inferior software.
      The man robot, OTOH, will simply bypass the receiving sensory circuit and
      refuse to send ACK packets, all the while playing robot wars with junior and
      generally doing, what a robot must do to make a living.
      Eventually they'll settle into their daily routine as the years go by. Despite
      their outward differences they now wouldn't want to miss each other anymore as
      their hinges start squeaking, rust appears and the last firmware update is but
      a distant memory. But as they prepare for being disassembled Junior...now all
      flashy with his LED's...rolls out into the world to link up with a girl of his
      own and start it all again...
      The EOF