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SSN Overlap With Micronesia Causes Trouble For Woman

Posted by samzenpus on from the not-my-problem dept.

stevel writes "Holly Ramer, who lives in Concord, NH, has never been to the Federated States of Micronesia, but debt collectors dun her mercilessly for unpaid loans taken out by a small business owner in that Pacific island nation. Why? Micronesia and other countries in the region have their own Social Security Administrations which gave out numbers to residents applying for US disaster relief loans. The catch is that the Micronesian SSNs have fewer digits than the nine-digit US version, and when credit bureaus entered these into their database, they padded them out with zeros on the front. These numbers then matched innocent US citizens with SSNs beginning with zeroes, as many in northern New England do. The credit bureaus say to call the Social Security Administration, the SSA says call the credit bureaus, the FTC says they can't help, and nobody is taking responsibility for the confusion."

9 of 494 comments (clear)

  1. Idiot programmers by sunderland56 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    All this, caused by someone too lazy to add a "if (country == USA)" statement.

  2. Re:what i would say by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Instead of insulting a poor call-center rep

    "poor call-center rep"? They are all scumbags. Go watch the movie 'In Debt We Trust'. Go read collections 101 and learn how they are trained. They are all miserable lying bastards who are willing to break the law in order to collect a quick buck. They don't deserve an ounce of sympathy and if they make the mistake of calling me they are going to hear every four letter word in the English language.

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  3. Re:what i would say by CodeBuster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The linked article said that there are potentially 130,000+ potential matches when the Micronesian SSNs are padded out with zeros to form 9-digit US SSNs. It probably won't be too long before some enterprising lawyer realizes that these 130,000 people form a class and files class action lawsuits against credit bureaus, reporting agencies, and any other firms which (a) have a few bucks and (b) attempt to collect from the wrong people.

  4. Re:a little metadata by shabble · · Score: 3, Insightful

    looks like the data (ssn) needs a little metadata (issuing authority, distinguished name) in order to make it work.

    Or, as I've questioned previously on here, WTF are the credit rating agencies in the US using non-unique identifiers (and identifiers that shouldn't be used outside a social security scenario) when (usually the exact same) credit agencies in other countries can manage using other (available) data? (Name, DOB, (Previous and current) Address?)

    For example in the UK, the equivalent to the SSN is the National Insurance (NI) number - this is never used by the CRAs - only by HMRC (tax office.)

    Anyway, sure, they still get false positives using these details (the most common seems to be when they use the name only), but not quite on this sort of scale.

    --
    http://harridanic.com
  5. Re:what i would say by Skater · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Thanks for this info! I have a similar problem - the people who lived at my house before me apparently took off in the middle of the night and left all kinds of debt strewn around. I bought the house (they were renters), and the collection agencies started calling ME. As far as I can tell, the collection agencies find the old number is disconnected, then do a lookup to see what phone number is available at the house, and call it. Idiots - you'd think they could also look at the names and go, "Hey, these are different people!!" I've lived here over three years now (and the renters moved out many months before I bought the house - they may have even been gone for more than a year), and I still get calls for them perhaps once every 6 weeks or so (fortunately waaaay down from the 2-3 every week I got when I first moved in, but still annoying).

    One time a lawyer left a long message on the machine for them trying to get them to call her before court the following day (where I assume she got a default judgement, since I doubt they knew or cared about it). I was sorely tempted to either call her and either (a) imitate them and call her nasty names, or (b) ask to join her lawsuit for the time I've spent dealing with their many collection calls.

    The automated ones are the worst. If you ignore them they just keep calling. So I have to spend time calling them and carefully explaining how someone can actually move to a new residence. It can take a while for them to understand that concept.

  6. Re:what i would say by mjwx · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Then you send them a cease and desist order as provided for by the FDCPA (fair debt collection practices act). If they are stupid enough to continue collection efforts after receiving it then you file suit against them in Federal court and collect $1,000 for each violation. They'll soon stop calling you when they realize that each phone call is going to cost them a thousand bucks.

    Yep, let the legal system deal with it. The worst a debt collector can do is take you to court only to find out they screwed up. You may counter sue at this point depending on the laws of your nation.

    What debt collector shows up at your door anyways? I've never heard of that. If they had the balls to try that with me I'd ask them once nicely to get off my property and if they declined I would "encourage" them to leave with more forceful measures.

    Forceful? Terrible idea. When it goes to court they get to say that you were the belligerent party and their side was "only defending itself". You're better off calling the cops to have them escorted off. First rule of dealing with debt collectors is to let them make the mistakes.

    Remember that a debt collector has no power or authority over you. Their main weapon is intimidation. They are counting on scaring you into paying them money and will use all manner of threats and lies to achieve this end. Other than that their only possible remedy is to sue you. This is an empty threat for the most part though because they almost always lack the documentation that would be required to win a lawsuit. They bank on collecting default judgments when the defendants fail to appear and aren't prepared to deal with someone shows up and contests the matter.

    Their only recourse is to sue you and the onus is on the debt collector to prove you owe them money. All you need to do is prove that you are not who they say you are. Never get intimidated, in Australia a debt collector is not permitted to threaten or deceive in any communications as this would result in the revocation of their license and probably charges being made against the companies directors.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  7. Re:what i would say by mjwx · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In my state you are allowed to use physical force to remove a trespasser from your property. They'd have a tough time claiming that you were the belligerent party on your own property.

    Best lawyer wins. A good lawyer can prove anything they need to.

    Using force only helps them convince others you are guilty of something.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  8. Re:what i would say by Hognoxious · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why the hell would you hit somebody with a bat for attempting to steal a car?

    To stop him stealing it. Beacause it's my fucking car, that I bought with my fucking money that I fucking earned.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  9. There's plenty of good info here. by YoungHack · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you have enough sense to browse the comments, you'll find common themes:

    1. The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act is pretty effective at helping you deal with collectors, so go read the law.

    2. You can usually get a good response by writing a letter (and you'll see why if you read the law). At the minimum you can make them comply with a "do not call me" request and make them correspond by letter.

    I will add a bit of my own wisdom. Find out the laws in your state and record your telephone. I happen to be in a "one party knows" state, so I can record my calls without saying. I always ask the state the collector is in and look it up to see if it is compatible (otherwise you may need to inform them if you want to use the recordings in court).

    Review your telephone recordings. Sometimes collectors will say things that don't mean quite what you think when you are on the line and under stress. I found reviewing the recordings left me with "ah ha" moments, especially when I took the conversation in the context of the FDCPA.

    Despite some other commentor's opinions it was my experience that debt collectors are often professional thugs. It makes sense, thugs have to work somewhere too, and you do what you are good at.

    If you have to pay a collector (I owed for a legitimate claim one time when there was a billing mistake), I recommend a one-time use credit card number. It can't be double billed if you set a limit at the correct amount. Believe me, you don't want to try to collect from a collector who owes you money because they screwed up. You can be successful, but you won't enjoy it.

    Remember, you want to be polite but firm. You want your recorded voice (remember, you're going to be taping this) to sound reasonable. If you take this collector to court, you want them to be the asshole. You want the judge to get pissed on your behalf and zing them with a judgment.