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Goldman Sachs Code Theft Not Quite So Cut and Dried

The New York Times has some interesting details that are surfacing about the recent charges brought against Sergey Aleynikov, the programmer who allegedly stole code from Goldman Sachs on his way out the door to another job. "This spring, Mr. Aleynikov quit Goldman to join Teza Technologies, a new trading firm, tripling his salary to about $1.2 million, according to the complaint. He left Goldman on June 5. In the days before he left, he transferred code to a server in Germany that offers free data hosting. [...] After his arrest, Mr. Aleynikov was taken for interrogation to F.B.I. offices in Manhattan. Mr. Aleynikov waived his rights against self-incrimination, and agreed to allow agents to search his house. He said that he had inadvertently downloaded a portion of Goldman's proprietary code while trying to take files of open source software — programs that are not proprietary and can be used freely by anyone. He said he had not used the Goldman code at his new job or distributed it to anyone else, and the criminal complaint offers no evidence that he has."

27 of 306 comments (clear)

  1. open source... Likely defence by Anonymous+Cowar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Here's the thing, Open source or not, taking it directly from his employer was a bad idea. If you modify a piece of software for in house use and don't distribute it outside, you don't have to distribute the source. If he wanted open source software, i know of a few places where he might find copies. (no links because you should know about google and source forge by now). So, if the source code HAD to have been taken from GS's servers, then it probably had proprietary in house changes which may not be re-licensed under the gpl (the gpl is a distribution license and kicks into effect as soon as GS starts distributing). That might still be theft of in house IP, which is bad.

    Anywho, in summary, weak sauce excuses are weak sauce.

    1. Re:open source... Likely defence by digitalunity · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What he did was wrong, but not for the reasons you think.

      Superfast trading puts all other traders at a disadvantage and essentially lets day traders manipulate the market. The SEC doesn't see fit to step in and stop the madness. They're a leech on the market and the frequency and volume of their trades hampers the ability for real investors(meaning people) to determine the volatility and legitimate trade volume of a stock.

      Some day the SEC will pull their head out of their ass and put a mandatory ownership period on all stock purchases of 48 hours or something. Addicted day traders might stop gambling away their retirement and it might put an end to these fast traders.

      --
      You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
    2. Re:open source... Likely defence by timmarhy · · Score: 5, Interesting
      fail. if it's sitting on the companys computers and you've been working on it in company time, they own it. i can't fathom a reason he would copy personal projects onto company hardware if it wasn't to work on it.

      this is something that scares me a bit about the work i do. i've had employers get really pissed off at me leaving before, my greatest fear is that one day they might pursue me in this kind of manner out of spite. a perfect example was one of my early gigs - a fully automated laboratory system that ran linux. i developed it, supported it 24/7 and saved the company a fortune. in 3 years they never gave me a single pay rise. so i was forced to leave to better my financial situation, and my god my last 2 weeks consisted of snide remarks and petty shots at my work. I handled it by just going about my work as normal and tieing up as many loose ends as possible, not taking the bait at their attempts at rattling me. once my notice was up i offered them a very fair rate if they ever wanted me back as a contractor to fix things or do new developements, and it was turned down without even a moments consideration.

      the fearful part comes from how much work i took home with me, a really committed employee who enjoys his work will tend to wrap his life around his work. at that time it would have been hard to separate personal life from work. i don't think anyone should be penalised for that.

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    3. Re:open source... Likely defence by hoggoth · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I used to work at Lehman Brothers years ago. I was developing new trading software. Once a buddy brought me a PC game. He put a CD in a drive, copied the files to his PC and burned it to a new blank CD.

      The network admins got an alert from the CD burning and within 15 minutes security was making sure nobody entered or left the section we were in. We both almost got fired from the shit-storm that followed. They didn't overreact one bit. We were wrong. We were being paid good money to know better than to copy our personal files on the same network as proprietary company software. It was a good thing they reacted so quickly so we could hand them both CDs to prove we hadn't been stealing the company's proprietary competitive advantage to sell it to a competitor. That kind of inter-company espionage goes on ALL THE TIME.

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    4. Re:open source... Likely defence by Chyeld · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No offense, but they were idiots then. Why did they have CD burning capabilities in these PCs and why did they trust that the CD you handed them was the one you just burnt and you hadn't palmed one under your desk with the actual stolen code.

    5. Re:open source... Likely defence by ChameleonDave · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We both almost got fired from the shit-storm that followed. They didn't overreact one bit. We were wrong.

      You appear to have a form of Stockholm syndrome.

    6. Re:open source... Likely defence by ChameleonDave · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Assuming he is just stupid and is not lying, he should just have waited until he was at his new job to grab the code from the original distributor (SourceForge, or wherever).

      It's lovely, seeing with 20-20 hindsight, isn't it?

  2. Mountain or molehill? by davidwr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Criminally negligent carelessness or a clever disguise for future criminal intent? Short of reading his mind, we may never know.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  3. Weird phrase by PCM2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Can you really "waive your rights against self-incrimination"? Like, now that he's waived his rights, he's required to incriminate himself?

    --
    Breakfast served all day!
    1. Re:Weird phrase by Trepidity · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yeah, phrased weirdly, but I assume it means something like, "he incriminated himself even after being advised of his Miranda right to remain silent". It might mean something stronger, though, like police actively asked him if he was waiving his right not to incriminate himself, and he confirmed that he was--- police sometimes do this so that the recorded interview is absolutely clear that the suspect knew what his rights are and was consciously waiving them, rather than speaking accidentally or because he was tricked into incriminating himself.

    2. Re:Weird phrase by CodeBuster · · Score: 4, Informative

      For those who are interested, the Electronic Frontier Foundation has put together a Surveillance Defense Project manual which discusses the basics of government search and seizure powers in the United States (among other things). There are other sources available on the same and related topics (the searches are left as an exercise to the reader), but basically the only way to completely preserve one's rights when dealing with the authorities is to refuse any cooperation, other than name and id, from the very start and continue that refusal until one's attorney is present and one is acting under advice from that attorney. Of course, our individual rights are being constantly diminished in this country so your mileage may vary, but at least in theory if you want to protect your 5th amendment right against self incrimination you must never cooperate, not even partially, until you are acting under the advice of your attorney, even if you have not yet been arrested or detained (i.e. this applies to any interactions with the authorities under any circumstances).

  4. Holy JESUS by BitterAndDrunk · · Score: 5, Insightful
    $1.2m a year to PROGRAM??

    I'm in the wrong industry vertical.

    --
    You better watch out, there may be dogs about . . .
    1. Re:Holy JESUS by camperdave · · Score: 4, Funny

      Maybe you're just at the wrong horizontal.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    2. Re:Holy JESUS by cptdondo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, you earn it. My sister used to work on wall st; got all sorts of perks. Catered dinners and a chauffeur home when she worked late, that sort of thing. Thing is, the late nights, killer pressure, and absurdly long weeks were the norm. Me, I make probably a tenth of what she did, but I show up at 7:30 and leave at 4, and sleep at night. I have time for my kids and family. I've never worked on a weekend on this job. So yup, you can make $millions; you can also lose your soul.

    3. Re:Holy JESUS by Red+Flayer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      For GS, he was making approx 400k. That's not outlandish for the kind of optimized programming on optimized hardware required for automatic trade execution, which is highly time-sensitive.

      But it's not just the programming skills that demand that much pay. There's lots of specialized knowledge, and some ability that likely you or I are not capable of[1].

      1.2 MM for a different company? Likely the extra $800k was for the inside knowledge of what GS was doing.

      [1] I don't know what your abilities are. But given my own geek-normal tendencies to overestimate my own abilities, I think it's quite possible that others do the same :)

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    4. Re:Holy JESUS by wandazulu · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not worth it. It's just not worth it. I have never been more miserable than when working in such an establishment. I never, ever, ever thought I could get used to being called an a-hole to my face for, well, anything...that's just how you referred to. And while the executive offices were likely very nice, I sat in a cube with ripped fabric, working under a flickering florescent light.

      In addition to what others have said, insanely long hours, unbelievable pressure (I was told that if I didn't have something working in production by Sunday night that I should just assume I'm fired), I can say that in 1996 I took 3 days off: New Years, Thanksgiving, and Christmas. I worked every other day.

      Not worth it. Absolutely not.

    5. Re:Holy JESUS by DahGhostfacedFiddlah · · Score: 5, Interesting

      How much is 3 years of missing 16 hours/day of your kids lives worth, versus 20 years of missing 8 hours/day?

  5. sounds fishy by shadowofwind · · Score: 4, Insightful

    He said that he had inadvertently downloaded a portion of Goldman's proprietary code while trying to take files of open source software

    Why try to take open source software instead of downloading it when you need it?

     

    He said he had not used the Goldman code at his new job or distributed it to anyone else.

    It sounds like maybe he wanted to keep it around for possible later reference. Not uncommon, but not innocent either.

  6. Print sceen by parallel_prankster · · Score: 4, Informative

    To steal code, you print screen and save it as an image file :)

    1. Re:Print sceen by sexconker · · Score: 4, Funny

      My print screen button gives me a paper printout.
      As soon as I rip off the perforated guide hole strips, I'll yell at you to get off my lawn.

  7. Separation by R2.0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Keep your personal business and your company's business separate. For instance, I have a separate banking account whose sole purpose is to hold expense reimbursements until I pay the ccard. Why? Because it's just too damned easy to screw up and cause yourself trouble all out of proportion to the original mistake.

    --
    "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
  8. I don't buy it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    He is a developer so by definition he is computer literate; you don't "accidentally" copy the wrong files (especially since they have BASH LOGS of what he did). However, even if what he says is true WHY IN THE NAME OF FUCK would you copy Open Source Software from your development machine instead of directly from the source? The potential for the appearance of impropriety is bad enough. On top of that, according to the original Slashdot article a while back he also encrypted the files. WHY IN THE NAME OF FUCK would you bother to encrypt Open Source Software files? While everything he said is technically plausible, it just comes off as fraudulent in the same manner as Hans Reiser's defense; i.e. "I'm so smart and I have an answer for everything". I suspect the next thing we hear about this story will involve a plea deal.

  9. Re:the Goldman Sachs Code is illegal front running by Red+Flayer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why would you be shocked?

    I mean, I not a conspiracy theorist by any means, but have you looked at how many ex-Goldman Sachs employees are employed in the highest levels of the US and several state governments?

    And I'm not just talking about Treasury Department appointments... also in the SEC, in elected office, etc. There's a joke I've heard that the SEC doesn't sneeze if they haven't asked GS for permission first.

    At any rate, the funniest thing I've heard about the whole deal is that GS told the authorities that with this software, the guy who stole it could manipulate markets and gain an unfair advantage in trade, and disrupt global markets. And yet somehow those potentials are not possible with GS being the only part holding the software?

    --
    "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  10. He's an idiot by krou · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Mr. Aleynikov waived his rights against self-incrimination, and agreed to allow agents to search his house.

    He's a f*cking idiot, and probably watched too much CSI and other cop shows where they always show people talking without their lawyer. Don't talk to the police, or the FBI, or any authority without your lawyer. Doesn't matter if you are innocent, doesn't matter if you have an explanation, an alibi, whatever. Just don't do it, because you can and will say something that can be used against you in a court of law.

    --
    'If Christ had tweeted the sermon on the mount, it might have lasted until nightfall.' - John Perry Barlow
  11. Interesting... by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The interesting part of the article is actually in paragraph 3 (i.e., before anything the submitter thought was important):

    At a bail hearing three days later, a federal prosecutor asked that Mr. Aleynikov be held without bond because the code could be used to "unfairly manipulate" stock prices.

    Of course, it's perfectly fine that Goldman-Sachs management and traders have code that could be used to "unfairly manipulate" stock prices. But when a private citizen gets their hands on something like that, look out! God knows we wouldn't want the hoi-polloi to have the same chance to "unfairly manipulate" stock prices that the big boys have.

    --
    That is all.
  12. Re:the Goldman Sachs Code is illegal front running by Fnkmaster · · Score: 4, Informative

    It is illegal front running IF it looks at their brokerage business order flow and trades ahead of that. Do you have evidence that they are doing that? If so, you should be talking to the SEC, not posting on Slashdot.

    Lots of firms implement high frequency trading strategies based on statistical probabilities of short term market movements, and order book depth analysis. These strategies are usually capital constrained, and a lot of work to implement and maintain, but can be levered up and earn a relative huge return on a modest amount of capital utilized, when implemented properly.

    Of course, they can also fail to get timely execution of orders if there are 5 people going after the same trades, in which case 4 of you are likely to lose your arses. Unlike other areas, high frequency strategies are often (though not always) a winner-takes-all world where your network latency and code execution speed are measured in microseconds, not seconds, or even milliseconds.

  13. Finally, INTELLIGENCE! by sgt_doom · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Thank you, Good Citizen pod, you are outstandlingly, enlightenly correctimondo--- corect, correct, correct.

    Goldman Sachs alumni also found at World Bank and IMF, as well as at least ten people in the Obama Administration (probably even more than that).

    GS doesn't have a statistically impossible earnings record with HFT because they are smart, it's called cheating..cheating...cheating....what they have always excelled at. Didn't anyone read Matt Taibbi's outstanding article in the Rolling Stone mag the other month? Geez, they have their hardware positioned exactly right to make a killing -- no brains involved -- plus they own all the frigging exchanges (via a series of holding companies, 'natch). You others here, catch a clue, doods....