Slashdot Mirror
Depression May Provide Cognitive Advantages
Hugh Pickens writes "Paul W. Andrews and J. Anderson Thomson, Jr. argue in Scientific American that although depression is considered a mental disorder, depression may in fact be a mental adaptation which provides real benefits. This is not to say that depression is not a problem. Depressed people often have trouble performing everyday activities, they can't concentrate on their work, they tend to socially isolate themselves, they are lethargic, and they often lose the ability to take pleasure from such activities such as eating and sex. So what could be so useful about depression? 'Depressed people often think intensely about their problems,' write the authors. 'These thoughts are called ruminations; they are persistent and depressed people have difficulty thinking about anything else. Numerous studies have also shown that this thinking style is often highly analytical. They dwell on a complex problem, breaking it down into smaller components, which are considered one at a time.' Various studies have found that people in depressed mood states are better at solving social dilemmas and there is evidence that people who get more depressed while they are working on complex problems in an intelligence test tend to score higher on the test (PDF). 'When one considers all the evidence, depression seems less like a disorder where the brain is operating in a haphazard way, or malfunctioning. Instead, depression seems more like the vertebrate eye — an intricate, highly organized piece of machinery that performs a specific function.'"
I've been struggling with a real tough problem, and getting more and more depressed.
Now I read this, and I have hope of solving it! woo hoo!
I can't tell you how happy I am!
wait....
Not every depressed person drifts to suicide. Some of us just become miserable cynical bastards.
Kind of like Goth vs Emo - one wants to kill you, while the other wants to kill himself.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
I agree! Last time we met, I was thinking that I wish I were as dumb as you. Sure, you're smarter than a lot of people (and therefore moderately happy) but if I had your meager intelligence, I would be so much happier than I am now.
Yeah, it's fucking great for me. Great till one day I end up failing to find a solution to the shit that's going on.
Yes, I am very intelligent. I am very successful in my career. I have a lot of people telling me how they would love to swap positions. I can tell you that for every person that I meet who is dumb and unsuccessful, yet happy in their lives, I would swap places in an instant.
I got asked once, if I would prefer to live intelligently in a prison knowing I was in one, or stupidly in the same place not knowing what it was. I would choose the latter.
Have a read of some of my musings and art to see some of my side of the coin:
Normal
Two Little Boys
Positive and Negative
and finally Depression the file in my sig.
For the record I am bipolar (Manic Depressive in old terminology).
Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
That's what we *used to* think. This research suggests that we were in fact incorrect.
Correlation and causation are difficult to disentangle, and I'm usually the first to point out what you did. But this research is specifically into temporary advantages, not actual intelligence boosting.
The idea is you shut everything out, except for what you're trying to solve - putting the blinders on, so to speak. You get no pleasure from nor have desire for things which might distract you from the issue at hand.
It's not an intelligence boost, just a way of coping with a problem. Usually its' several problems, my opinion creeping in. Too much to do, too much stress, and the mind revolts and says "one thing at a time, my friend".
While depressive people tend to consider a problem very intensely and break it into lots of sub-problems and try to analyze what could have happened if some options were different, all those - ruminations (as the summary states) - still lead to nothing because the all the shit has already hit the fan and there is nothing that can undone that. so the thoughts go round and round and round again.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
This is basically where people who are prone to depression have markedly less influence by illusiory conditions. They view the world as it is, without the rose tinted spectacles of the non-depressed.
This gives a general predisposition towards problem solving and accurate assessment of situations, allowing the excision of the personal investment in problems, treating the problem as a more logical construct, which overall leads to better problem solving (which has been researched since the late 70s and 80s).
However, depression being what it is, it doesn't make life around a depressed person any easier, and isn't that great for the depressed person themselves (I speak as one that's prone to that state of mind and have to be a little careful from time to time; it does make things in my favourite field of IT Business Continuity seem somewhat easier than it does for most though, with me jokingly being accused of having enough paranoia for the whole hospital).
The trouble with "Depressive Realism" is that it's not entirely evident whether it's the realistic state of mind that brings about depression (having trouble with the normal chit chat that greases the social wheels, yet goes nowhere, is a real drag and will definitely get you down), or whether it's the depressive state of mind that leaves you more objective.
Jesus Christ, those are the two choices?
Fuck.
<xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
I suspect that whether or not a clearer view of reality confers an advantage depends in large part on the circumstances, mostly the cost of failure vs. possible success.
In a system with debtor's prisons, being optimistic about your small business plan is probably a stupid idea. In a system with comparatively mild bankruptcy terms, and relatively easy incorporation, optimism may well be a very lucrative virtue. In some clannish honor-bound society, being optimistic about your chances with a possible sexual partner could get you killed. In a bar full of strangers in the modern west, the potential downsides are pretty low(assuming social rejection doesn't bother you).
Broadly, depending on the prevailing ratio between possible downsides/worst case scenarios and possible upsides/best case scenarios, a delusionally positive perspective could be highly adaptive, or swiftly lethal, or somewhere in between. A delusionally negative perspective could be as well, in principle.
"Alpha children wear grey They work much harder than we do, because they're so frightfully clever. I'm really awfuly glad I'm a Beta "
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
This may be more than I should post in a public forum, but I'm tired of the horror stories over antidepressants. I bought into that for nearly 20 year and just about lost my life for it.
When I started taking my meds, my blood pressure was 200/140. I was significantly overweight and also had no energy. I would tell people that I was not a morning person and sleep until noon or later. I had no self confidence and no social life. I would cry unconsolably for the most minute things. I was a mess and there wasn't really anything that I could do to break the cycle.
Today, about a year and a half later, I have normal blood pressure (it dropped to normal during the first month!). I regularly get up at 5:30/6:00. I have interest in going places and doing things, I even got out and sang karaoke in public. I feel great, I have lots of energy and am losing weight. I've even gotten back into some of the interests that have waned over the years. In short, my life has been improving despite very trying circumstances (my wife decided that she would be better off without me in January and filed for divorce after 11 years and 5 children).
Certainly not a lobotomy. I'd say anyone experiencing that is on the wrong medication and needs to find something that works.
Last year, and almost all my life before that, I was in the same position.
On paper, my life was great - phenomenal test scores, CTO and one of the founders of a successful software company, good income, attending Harvard, etc. Tall, attractive, etc.
And yet, my life was hell. Many emotions (love, empathy, grief, joy) were literally missing. I had family, pets, etc. die - I felt nothing, so I watched others and emulated them, lest people think I was callous. I didn't want them to see that I was empty inside - filled with only anger, hate, jealousy, etc.
I was rather sociopathic - it made me a great salesperson, and a very lousy human being. I didn't date, I had only 1 long-term friend. In many ways, he was more screwed up than I.
The irony is that ultimately it was my suicide plans that saved me.
I had decided to end my life, and to ensure I would not be screwing over my family (who I was supporting), I decided to get insurance, and stage an accident. Yes, I am aware this is fraud - I was not right in the head. The fact I'm typing this is a pretty good indication I didn't go through witih it.
As part of the insurance process, they did blood analysis. This caught that my cholesterol levels were extremely low.
Further investigation showed that my body does not properly produce cholesterol, and that it messed up my hormonal levels - horribly.
I now chug heavy whipping cream at night, and take hormonal replacement. The depression is gone, and I am a generally happy human being.
When I do what I feel is right, I enjoy it - when I hurt others, or do what I feel is wrong, I feel bad. It's a very profound feeling for someone who has never felt that before. I went on my first date - I never imagined that being with someone in a social situation could feel so good.
We are chemical beings, running on chemical processes. As we get a better understanding of the brain, how things work - more and more people are finding things that can help. I hope, I sincerely do, that you are able to find your answers, and soon.