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Schooling, Homeschooling, and Now, "Unschooling"

ciaohound writes "The Baltimore Sun has a story about 'unschooling,' which is like homeschooling except, well, without the schooling. '...unschooling incorporates every facet of a child's life into the education process, allowing a child to follow his passions and learn at his own pace, year-round. And it assumes that an outing at the park — or even hours spent playing a video game — can be just as valuable a teaching resource as Hooked on Phonics.' If you have ever been forced to sit in a classroom where no learning was taking place, you may understand the appeal. A driving force behind the movement is parents' dissatisfaction with regular schools, and presumably with homeschooling as well. Yet few researchers are even aware of unschooling and little research exists on its effectiveness. Any Slashdotters who have experience with 'unschooling?'"

22 of 1,345 comments (clear)

  1. So it's a fnacy nmae by Hognoxious · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sounds like a fancy name for goofing off, skiving and truancy.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    1. Re:So it's a fnacy nmae by ravenshrike · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Child C, the one who took apart the toaster when he was 4.

    2. Re:So it's a fnacy nmae by Timothy+Brownawell · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Obviously, Child A needs to learn his multiplication tables too.

      So you're saying "school + extracurricular learning > school", which is a rather silly thing to argue about.

      What this is about is whether "extracurricular learning > school", which could be slightly less silly. If whoever was helping with the "extracurricular" learning knew a large amount about pretty much everything, and could generate interest in all of history, politics, math, literacy, science (how to use experiments and record-keeping to assist curiosity), the various trivia that we learned from science (earth goes around the sun), basic accounting, etc.

    3. Re:So it's a fnacy nmae by Hognoxious · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Who do you think is going to be a better engineer someday?

      Child B. Maths is a prerequisite for being an Engineer (with a big "E"). Spend all day tinkering with old bikes and maybe you'll be a mechanic.

      But I seem remember that about 80%-90% of my time spent in public school I was bored out my mind to damn near the point of insanity after 15 years of it. Granted, I am in the top 1 percentile intelligence-wise.

      And that makes everything you say true? FWIW I'm the same level, but I wasn't bored.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    4. Re:So it's a fnacy nmae by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, clearly it's better to drag down the more intelligent to make it fair for those who can't learn as fast. Fuck. That. The world needs ditch diggers.

    5. Re:So it's a fnacy nmae by Bught_42 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Don't underestimate the value of being bored, or being forced to be at someplace other than at home. When I sit at home all day I have a tendency not to do much intellectually, I play video games, watch TV and movies, and maybe read a book.
      When I'm stuck at school or work and am bored I find better ways to entertain myself, thinking, writing or drawing. I have had teachers that didn't care if I sat in the back of the class room coding on my laptop as long as I kept up and didn't disturb anyone else.

      This might just be my lack of motivation but I find it very helpful to be forced to find someway to entertain myself, often in a positive manner, when not surrounded by the distractions of home.

    6. Re:So it's a fnacy nmae by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Who do you think is going to be a better engineer someday?

      Child B. Child B without a shadow of a doubt.

      I'm sorry to burst the bubbles of all the school reformists around here, but the simple fact is learning anything, and learning it well, requires a certain amount of effort, work and indeed hard slogging. While I agree that school should not be a monotonous, pointless drudge, at some point in education student are going to be required to sit down at their desks and drill something difficult into their heads.

      Do you know what happens when you let children run around, be inquisitive, ask questions, appreciate concepts, and open doors of wonderment in every topic? You get Arts students. Arts and Humanities students who know how to appreciate everything and know how to do absolutely nothing. People who can master the art of appearing intelligent whilst remaining shockingly ignorant. People whose ideas and tastes and practices are simply imitations of something that was actually original.

      When you sit a child down, get them to learn their times tables; learn how to spell and write; learn how to add, subtract, multiply and divide; learn how to solve algebraic equations; learn the periodic table; learn the organs of the body; learn the continents and countries of the world; learn the history of their own country; learn the planets of the solar system; and nowadays learn the principles and usage of computers, you will have given that child the tools they need to build a life worth living. A life that they spend bettering themselves and their society.

      I was as bored as anyone in school. Sleepy too. But, reluctant as I was, I learned my lessons and I know full well that if I had been left to sit at home with entire library of books and no one to watch me I would probably have spent the whole day playing video games. Maybe my education could have been faster, better and more comprehensive, but only if my society wanted to spend more on it. But no matter how magnificent my experience could have been, I could not know all that I do today without those mind-numbingly painful drills and lessons and test and reviews.

      Learning is fun. But it's also pretty hard. And a wide curriculum means a better chance of everyone finding something they are good at. Combined, this means that most children will be bored at some stage during the school day. But it also means there's a good chance they'll learn something each day too, or learn how to do it better.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    7. Re:So it's a fnacy nmae by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We regret to inform you that Child C has died due to electrical shock.

      It wasn't curiosity that killed the cat, it was ignorance. Curiosity was framed.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    8. Re:So it's a fnacy nmae by db32 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Now...high school is a bit of a different beast. However, I am rarely bored in classes I take anymore. There is always someone else to help understand the subject and there are almost always more students than teachers. If you are bored it is because you are allowing someone else to fall behind. If you understand it so well that you have nothing to do, help the others understand and then you can all move forward.

      I can tell you from personal experience hearing another student say "I could not have passed without you" is much more fulfilling than simply hearing the instructor say "you passed". Only the foolish refuse to train their replacements. The brilliant will have a hard time finding enough replacements to keep them moving upward.

      --
      The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
    9. Re:So it's a fnacy nmae by PoeticExplosion · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Hmm, odd. I don't remember it being like that at all. If anything, I had a lot more time to learn things than I do now at college.

      As a kid, my mom read all sorts of great books to me, and when I was older she could literally just leave library books on the kitchen table. I had learned that books are interesting, so of course I read them. Besides fiction, I loved books about science and history. I even tried to read some Platonic dialogues in 4th grade. I was really into spy stuff for a while, so we also did a lot of codes and ciphers, which quickly translated into the fun parts of math. I knew I wanted to go to college, so we did some formal curriculum for a couple hours every morning in middle school. It was mostly lame, but it was helpful with math at least. I also joined the "Homeschool Film Club". I learned Adobe After Effects and did a lot of camera work for the local public access channel.

      In ninth grade I decided to try a fairly rigorous Christian private school in the area. It was fine, I got straight As, but it was boring. The kids had no motivation to learn, and I could progress in most subjects on my own faster than at the school. (Math was again the exception, I had a fantastic math teacher.) So I went back to unschooling in tenth grade. I was really into popular science books at this point, and I read a lot about theoretical physics and evolutionary biology. I was also reconsidering a lot of the religious ideas I had, so I was reading a lot of hardcore theology.

      I discovered UC Berkeley's online lectures around this time, and listened to a bunch of college-level psychology. Eventually I became interested in the philosophical side of psychology, and started investigating philosophy. Fortuitously, UC Berkeley has a philosophy professor who likes podcasting, so I listened to a few of his series of lectures. I went through the first half of Heidegger's "Being and Time" this way. It's a hideously difficult book, even for philosophy, but I had a lot of free time!

      During this same period I was working with a professional theatre in a neighboring town, as well as a couple local community theatres. Since I didn't have set hours for school, I was able to be there whenever they needed me. I acted in several shows, and worked on lighting and general tech work.

      Oh, almost forgot. I also took a couple community college classes, in physics and writing. They were both absurdly easy and I didn't learn anything, but it looked good on my transcript to have some formal classes at the college level.

      I decided I wanted to go to the University of Chicago, if I could. It's ranked 8th in the country, but in my opinion it's academically better than the Ivies and other colleges ranked above it. (MIT and Caltech are the exceptions, but they are also more narrowly focused.) I applied, got in, and am currently attending. It's awesome being around other academically engaged people, but I kinda miss the chance to learn on my own. Luckily, I have the summer to do that!

      I admit I'm a bit of an outlier, and I probably would have done fine in the public schools. Not everyone who is unschooled will have a natural passion for academics. However, if anything, unschooling is even better for people who don't want to become academics. My younger sister has some minor learning disabilities, and is far more into the arts than the sciences. She spent her high school years learning about theatre and music, and has become a fantastic actress. She spent the summer working with the professional theatre company I mentioned, but in a much more intensive way than I ever did. However, while it's not her focus, she still loves learning intellectual things as well. She's currently doing some pretty substantial research into psychology and counseling. She's trying to decide between theatre and counseling as possible careers. Either way, I'm convinced she's in a better position than she would be at the public schools, where she'd likely be forced into special LD classes and not allowed to explore the things that actually interest her.

      It's entirely possible to do unschooling badly, but that doesn't mean it's inherently a bad idea.

      --
      Power corrupts. Knowledge is power. Study hard. Be evil.
  2. Good luck in university by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    These parents are in for a nasty shock when their precious snowflakes head off to university and can't get in. What you will discover, and many homeschooling parents have already found out, is that they don't care how good a job you think you did or how proud you are. You pass their various admissions tests, or you go somewhere else. They are not at all interested in your ideas of how education should be. Your reading comprehension, writing, and math skills had better be up to spec or you are sent packing.

    1. Re:Good luck in university by x_IamSpartacus_x · · Score: 5, Informative

      Absolutely correct. Studies consistently show that homeschoolers are ridiculously better prepared than students who have been through the public school system. A study in 1997 (admittedly 12 years ago) showed that students who have been homeschooled for two years or more usually score between the 86th and 92nd percentile in every subject.
      linky

      Homeschooling has its problems, usually social ones, but academically, homeschooling nearly always produces vastly better educated children.

      I was homeschooled for all of my primary and secondary education in Arizona (a VERY good state to be homeschooled in because of the LACK of regulation it puts on homeschoolers. It seems Arizona has realized that homeschooling produces MUCH smarter kids and it is best to leave government well out of it) and don't have a High School Diploma or GED. I got a FULL SCHOOLERSHIP into ANY state school (ASU, UofA or NAU) because my SAT scores were nearly perfect. Get that GP. I. Didn't. Pay. Anything. Because. I. Was. Homeschooled.

      Most homeschooling parents have found out that it is an incredible sacrifice to stay home and teach your child yourself, but it is one of the best ways of showing your love for your child by providing an actual education for them instead of the public system that is failing so many children across the country.

  3. Re:What would these kids grow up to be? by candeoastrum · · Score: 5, Funny

    Once they graduate from unschooling then they can master unworking so they can earn their unhome that goes with their unspouse.

  4. It's called "Evenings" by CorporateSuit · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The kid is only in school for 6 hours in the day. Use the other 8-10 of their non-sleep hours to do this stuff. School isn't a substitute for parenting, and it shouldn't be their only source of learning.

    --
    I am the richest astronaut ever to win the superbowl.
  5. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  6. Re:Sounds like... by ari_j · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not only do you get the Calvin's Dad effect, but your children also lose out on learning to deal with structure. It doesn't matter how academically advanced you are if you have never had any real authority to deal with (not necessarily to obey, but at least to learn how to manipulate) or discipline in your life. And let's face it, parents who think they are the best combined teachers and child psychologists their children will have an opportunity to learn from tend not to be the greatest at being authority figures or disciplining their children. This is a Bad Idea(TM).

  7. Worked for me! by digitalderbs · · Score: 5, Funny

    And my sister! And our daughter!

  8. "Unschooling" the hard way. by Animats · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There are some famous examples of this working. But only because the parents had time, money, and high standards.

    One of the Rockefellers, the son of John D., wrote that when he was a kid, his father gave him an allowance. He was required to keep a proper set of double-entry books on how he spent it, and the books were audited by an accountant. He didn't get the next allowance payment until the books balanced.

    Henry Ford II was promised a car for some birthday. On the appointed day, he was taken out to a garage, and there was the car - totally dissembled with all the component parts laid out. A full set of tools was supplied. Eventually, he did get the car assembled and running.

    If you have the resources, it can work.

  9. Sounded good ... never tried it by Oswald · · Score: 5, Informative

    When my wife and prepared to homeschool our kids back in 2001, we both talked a lot about unschooling (yes, the term was in use that far back and longer). It intrigued us. At one point we may even have convinced ourselves that we were going to give it a try. But a funny thing happened on the way to unschool. By the time our kids were done with their reading and writing and arithmetic lessons, they didn't have much more time for learning through play than any other kids did.

    Apparently our common sense was stronger than we gave it credit for. No way were we going to let our kids not learn the three R's. In time, we added the usual history and geography and science and so on, and though we never did subscribe to anybody else's curriculum, ours ended up looking pretty standard.

    We did eventually join a homeschool group to give our kids a way to meet other kids, and that group included a few unschooled children. We saw nothing to make us think we had erred in actually educating our kids. The unschoolers weren't unpleasant to be around; they just didn't know much, and even the other kids could see it.

    [This is all in the past tense because our kids started public school this year -- eighth grade. They're on par with the kids in the AP classes in English (excuse me, Language Arts), and algebra. The other classes aren't tracked (grouped, stratified, whatever), so kids of all abilities are in the same classes, and ours are ahead of many of their classmates in those areas. They're experiencing a bit of culture shock, but overall we're pleased with how it's going. FYI.]

    1. Re:Sounded good ... never tried it by WankersRevenge · · Score: 5, Informative

      My wife and I are investigating home schooling our child at the moment, and one of her friends in her home schooling network is a big proponent of "no-schooling". Long story short, this woman's nine year old child still cannot read. I find that almost criminal so needless to say, I'm not a big fan of the technique ... if it can be even labeled a technique.

  10. Just remember.. by Totenglocke · · Score: 5, Insightful

    what Mark Twain said - "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education".

    Schools theses days are about indoctrinating and conforming to useless standards, not about learning. If you want to learn, you have to do it outside of school.

    --
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
  11. It's about choices and taking them seriously. by SeaDuck79 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Parents who can and will take the time to teach their children about the world around them and how to act and interact within it will, more than likely, end up with children who are well-adjusted, relatively well-educated and prepared children. Parents who believe that it's someone else's job to do all of those things will more likely end up with entitlement babies who will be leeches on society.

    Some kids will be well-educated because of our public schools, and some will end up well-educated in spite of them. The same can be true of any other learning environment, if poorly and carelessly administered. My 15 year old, who none of us think is a genius, scored as post-high school in almost every subject. My son, who is very smart, started college at 16, because we had nothing left to teach him. Both would have been bored in public school, as I was.

    The point is that parents should have the ability to choose that which works best for their children, so long as that choice produces acceptable results.