Parental Control Software Datamines Kids' Online Conversations

An AP report reveals that web-monitoring software from Sentry and FamilySafe, both developed by EchoMetrix Inc., is harvesting data from kids' online chats, trying to determine their opinions on games, movies, and music. The data is then sold to other companies for advertising purposes. "In June, EchoMetrix unveiled a separate data-mining service called Pulse that taps into the data gathered by Sentry software to give businesses a glimpse of youth chatter online. While other services read publicly available teen chatter, Pulse also can read private chats. It gathers information from instant messages, blogs, social networking sites, forums and chat rooms. ... Parents who don't want the company to share their child's information to businesses can check a box to opt out. But that option can be found only by visiting the company's Web site, accessible through a control panel that appears after the program has been installed. It was not in the agreement contained in the Sentry Total Home Protection program The Associated Press downloaded and installed Friday."

Comments

Do I smell a lawsuit?

[El Jynx]

Yup, I think I do, yesss preciousss. Filthy nasssty antiprivacccccy dataminersessss! OUR precioussss!

Re:Do I smell a lawsuit?

[nurb432]

i doubt it. Im sure there was something deep down in the fine print that will derail a suit.

Re:Do I smell a lawsuit?

[Darkness404]

Sure, but you can't legally enforce a contract that is illegal. Also, its impossible to know what the EULA is before you buy the software in most cases and most of the time its either impossible or a pain to return opened software. So its like this, here you are going to need to give me the money in advance, then read the contract and sign, oh and if you don't like the contract, well you already took the contract so you can't take it back.

Re:Do I smell a lawsuit?

[Khyber]

"Im sure there was something deep down in the fine print that will derail a suit."

Bullshit. When parents find out their children are being used for profit-making without their consent, not only is it going to be a shitstorm but it just might get COPPA reinstated.
Never underestimate the backlash of millions of pissed off parents. Many of them will do absolutely psychotic things to defend their children from any perceived threat.

That is what you get

[nurb432]

When you delegate your parental responsibilities.

Re:That is what you get

[tinkertim]

When you delegate your parental responsibilities.

As a parent of a three year old girl, I agree with you. However, standing over their shoulder the entire time they use a computer is not going to be very productive.

I wish more parents would understand that you have about 8 years from the time that a kid is born to install a sense of confidence and worth in them that can't be easily (if at all) broken by future peers, predators or come what may. If you manage to do it, your kid will make good choices.

No software is a substitute for a desire in a child to make good, positive self serving choices when they are confronted with the various bumps in growing up.

What a world this police state is becoming, sheesh.

Re:That is what you get

[Shadow of Eternity]

The problem isn't the kids, the problem is that some (probably uncomfortably large) percentage of parents absolutely refuse to consider their children as anything other than half employee and half property. You raise your kids to never know privacy, dignity, or respect and unless they are particularly unique in some way that shakes them free of the pattern they'll be doormats to anyone that wants to violate them in a similar way.

It doesn't help that we're the country that has no problem with flooding our kids with violence but god help us if they might possibly see a nipple somewhere, let alone anything else, and so parents will fall over themselves to pay various companies god knows how much for every knee-jerk reaction they can wring out of them.

Re:That is what you get

[Anonymous Coward]

Cable PVR boxes send usage stats to the cable co (uk) , ok they dont know WHO is watching, but they know exactly what you have watched, if you skipped the ads etc.

Re:That is what you get

[JockTroll]

Children as half-employees and half-property? Speak for yourself. I think of them as half fuel and half dog food.

Re:That is what you get

[quanticle]

There's a reason these stereotypes exist. Its because, in a large number of cases, they're actually true. If nothing else, the success of these companies proves that. The success of "Think of the children!" legislation proves it too.

No one in power is standing up to the parents of America and saying, "Hey, the reason your kids are fat and emotionally maladjusted is because you're too scared to let them go out on their own and make their own decisions." So, its up to people like us to make that point and hammer away at it until it sinks in.

Destroying childrens privacy in order to save them

[russotto]

Part of me wants to give a big Nelson ha-ha to the overprotective parents who install this crap trying to save their children from the eeeevil people on the Internet. Is it really any surprise that the corporations most interested in "protecting" your children are those who have figured out a way to exploit them?

Sue them.

[Yvanhoe]

Seriously. EULA or not, this is invading the children privacies. There must be a law against this.

Re:Sue them.

[KlaasVaak]

Well I don't know about America but in the EU this would certainly be illegal I think you wouldn't even have to file a civil suit they would just be prosecuted But I know in America companies have much more freedom to fuck over their customers so maybe this was legal with you.

Re:Sue them.

[Twanfox]

I seem to recall there being a law stating that no information may be collected from a under 13 years of age. It's called the Child Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA). I don't know much more about what the software is asking, and whom it is asking, but it seems to me they're treading dangerous ground by doing this kind of thing.

Re:Sue them.

[selven]

The child didn't agree to the EULA.

Sounds Illegal to me

[Concern]

In the US, children have special privacy protections afforded by law. It involves things like "opt-in" and parental consent.

http://www.coppa.org/comply.htm

IANAL, but I have worked on a number of projects which had to comply. Based on what is said here, this seems in flagrant violation. Somebody call the cops.

Highly Vauable Information

[gsslay]

Early results indicate that kids are pre-occupied with gayness (in an unfocussed and confused way), wedgies, noogies and the smell of poo.

Further analysis reveals that Disney actors are hot, teachers aren't and swimming pools are responsible for most diseases.

Any company data-mining this further are welcome to try. There are great truths to be found within, I'm sure.

Re:Highly Vauable Information

[Anonymous Coward]

Early results indicate that kids are pre-occupied with gayness (in an unfocussed and confused way)

Well, to be fair, so is the entire Republican party.

...Further analysis reveals that Disney actors are hot, teachers aren't and swimming pools are responsible for most diseases.

Don't be silly. Cooties are responsible for most illnesses. Boys get 'em from kissing girls. But, of course, only kids who are totally gay would be kissing girls. Ick!

Of course, once you get above the 9-year-old demographic, the scientific consensus changes.

Wonderful ...

[krou]

FamilySafe: Protecting your kids, but not from us!

Scare tactics

[redelm]

Well, what did you expect? Blocking software is basically an outgrowth of monitoring / usage software primarily developed for targetted marketing. So of course it monitors, the better build its' database.

Of course the kids have privacy rights, but as minors cannot exercise these which the parents/guardians have a fiduciary duty to exercise. The parents doubtless click agreement when the software is installed.

The real problem is that parents are scared into agreement by media overhyping low probability events and omitting crucial explanations / causes. So the parents hear: "Your kids could be another Columbine or victim" to sell whatever schlock they're peddling. Non-sequitur but the data is obscured.

A bigger question is why people like being scared. Adrenline rush? Most TV news runs that way. I never understood the popularity of horror flicks.

Proprietary software is evil

[Omnifarious]

One thing I always tell people is that people who won't show you the source code to their software have something to hide. It's almost certain their software is doing something that benefits themselves at your expense. Sovereignty over your own possessions requires that you insist on visible source code, even if you can't understand it yourself.

Re:Cue lawsuits

[couchslug]

"Cue lawsuits as the wife starts getting targeted advertisements for 'hot sluts in your area' due to the husbands chatting habits..."

Cue divorces as husbands start getting targeted advertisements for 'hot sluts in your area' displaying their wives.

Not apparently illegal [Re:Sounds Illegal to me]

[Geoffrey.landis]

In the US, children have special privacy protections afforded by law. It involves things like "opt-in" and parental consent.

http://www.coppa.org/comply.htm

IANAL, but I have worked on a number of projects which had to comply. Based on what is said here, this seems in flagrant violation. Somebody call the cops.

Nope.

"The Children's Online Privacy Protection Act and Rule apply to individually identifiable information about a child"

As long as they're only data mining the information on what the kids are interested in, and not saving which child was interested in what, they're apparently not violating the COPPA law.

Which is not to say that what they're doing is right, of course.

Technology is a tool, not a substitute

[Temujin_12]

My wife and I view our responsibility as parents as very basic:

1) Provide basic necessities an enjoyments of life (emphasis on necessities)
2) Provide love and a feeling of trust and safety in the home
3) Teach them a strong sense of identity and self-worth
4) Teach our kids what choices are, how to recognize good from bad choices, and how to accept the consequences of you actions

For computers, here's our strategy:

1) Place computers in a open public place (including our own)
2) Teach them that computers are a tool and how people use it for good and bad
3) Openly discuss what acceptable and unacceptable behavior with computers/games are
4) Limit time spent on computer
5) As much as possible, don't create double standards
6) Use OpenDNS and block certain sites depending on their age

We feel parental technology should be used to reinforce what you're already teaching, not as a substitute.

Re:Unsafe at any SPEED

[Dreadneck]

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? -- Juvenal

Re:EU policy

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not so sure. If the data is not personally identifiable, I don't think it violates the European Union Privacy Directive.

Note that the information is data-mined for advertising information (finding out what kids are interested in), not for ad targetting (send an ad for "High School Musical IV" to kids talking about "Guitar Hero").

But companies do receive snippets of actual chats. How do they ensure that doesn't contain anything that is personally identifiable?

Re:Unsafe at any SPEED

[Runaway1956]

I remember, long ago when my kids were little, experimenting with some of those baby sitter softwares. None delivered a reasonable balance between access and protection. The kid said he couldn't find anything on some subject, can't remember now what it was. Or, maybe more accurately, he complained that he was finding limited information. Anyway, I did a search, and got something like a gazillion to the gazillionth power hits. The kid looks over my shoulder, and comments that HIS internet found nothing like that. So, I went to his computer, did the same search, and came up with a couple dozen lame hits.

Out went the baby sitter software.

His little project was completed, it went to school, got graded, and we were so proud of our little guy. *scratches head* Whatever did we do with all those projects? Maybe I can sell his nuclear bomb excavator to a coal company now that the economy sucks so bad. Probably buy groceries for a couple months.......

My philosophy: Parental control = censorship.

[Hurricane78]

No exceptions. It's morally wrong, and only "required" if you're an unfit parent that does not have the combination of true respect and ability to educate.

Also it is for those sick twisted minds, who somehow got the idea that sex & co. would somehow be bad and even hurt children. Something that makes absolutely no sense, if you so much as think about if for more than ten seconds.

It's really rather sad. Parents giving their unfitness and diseases to their poor children, who then continue to infect others.
Only education can cure that. Social education and education about how to avoid false social conditioning.
But unfortunately, the government works -- on a higher level -- in the same unfit and sick way.

Basically, we're fucked. :/

Re:My philosophy: Parental control = censorship.

[Dhalka226]

You know what I think makes one unfit to be a parent? Commenting on hypothetical parents with hypothetical children using absolute statements that attempt to assert some sort of moral superiority for letting kids do anything they want.

Contrary to what you think, there isn't a right or wrong answer; it's specific to the parents and the child. Some may consider it a good opportunity to let their children go wherever they want on the Internet and then talk about whatever they see as it comes up. That's perfectly healthy. So is wanting to make sure your child is mentally and/or emotionally prepared for such discussion. I don't personally have a problem with sex or relatively small children seeing it, but I certainly wouldn't want to be explaining bestiality or why that man has that woman tied to the ceiling and is hurting her to a six year old. It's also worth throwing in at this point that parental controls are about more than content blocking.

Some people are control freaks, some people are fools, some people will take things farther than they need to go. But thinking differently than you does not instantly make somebody stupid or an unfit parent. It does not make their decisions some disease to avoid passing on at all costs.

Personally, I'd be more concerned about passing on your grammar than a parent deciding porn sites aren't appropriate for a six year old.

Re:EU policy

[koshatul]

But companies do receive snippets of actual chats. How do they ensure that doesn't contain anything that is personally identifiable?

That sounds like alot of coding and work, isn't it easier just to get full transcripts and sort it out later ?

Denial: They wouldn't do anything like that to you.
Anger: It's your fault for not reading the EULA.
Barganing: How else can they make ends meet in this economy, you need the software, they need the data.
Depression: (actually, isn't the economy heading for one now ?)
Acceptance: Oh well, all hail our new child protection overlords.