Police Swarm Bungie Office Over Halo Replica Rifle

Ah, paranoia by DesScorp · 2009-09-07 03:12 · Score: 4, Insightful

Maybe Congress can attempt to pass an "Assault Replica" bill.

I've never understood the logic of banning a gun because it looks scary. American "assault rifles" are semi-automatic. Pull the trigger, and one shot comes out. Politicians want to ban them because they look intimidating next to, say, a standard bolt-action Ruger 30.06. This is like banning a V-6 equipped Camaro because "it looks fast".

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Life is hard, and the world is cruel

Re:Ah, paranoia by nurb432 · 2009-09-07 03:46 · Score: 3, Insightful

You go on believing that.. Its all about the disarming of America, little by little.
if they can stigmatize ownership enough people will be afraid to own.

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---- Booth was a patriot ----
Re:Ah, paranoia by jabuzz · 2009-09-07 04:01 · Score: 3, Insightful

That is because the police got very tired of the hassle and expense the massive inquiries that inevitably followed when some moron pointed a replica gun at someone, and a police marksman shoots them.
Personally if you point a replica gun at someone, especially a policeman don't whine when you get shot.
Re:Ah, paranoia by maharb · 2009-09-07 04:11 · Score: 3, Insightful

We are already disarmed. The purposed of the clause in the constitution was to enable the general public to have equal ability to overthrow/control the government if it tried to overstep its boundaries. That is what our nation was founded on and that is what the founding fathers wanted to give the people. Now are are just like every other nation, ruled by our government and not the other way around. In terms of relative firepower the best a regular citizen can get might as well be a water pistol compared to what the government has.
They don't even need to stigmatize gun ownership. Rather than taking guns away they are just taking the ammo away. Every store I have been to lately has been out of nearly everything that most guns use excluding shotgun shells and .22's. Now you can buy all the guns you want and still be unarmed.
All this to stop what? Urban violence? I am sorry but just because big cities have a problem with guns does not mean the solution is banning them. Politicians need to get out of their sheltered city environments and see why gun ownership is not such an absurd idea. See that most gun owners are true Americans and not gangsters.
If everyone was disarmed a criminal will still be able to get guns, and if they can't they will still be able to get other weapons. Banning guns to fight crime is like banning cheeseburgers to fight obesity. They are related but there are other ways to get fat than cheeseburgers.
Re:Ah, paranoia by Maxmin · 2009-09-07 05:40 · Score: 5, Insightful

ammo companies aren't going to increase their production lines too much because the increased buying was caused first by Obama's anti-gun tendencies and has continued because of the extremely large expansion in government power

Huh? You who didn't notice the "extremely large expansion in government power" during the Bush era deserve to get your playtoys taken away.
Didn't notice a one of you showing up to Bush's (few) public speaking engagements packin' 2nd amendment heat, not during the time he expanded the federal budget and deficit to new record levels, all the while crossing out sections of new law just cus his lawyers say he can.
Now that you got a Democratic president, you're all up in arms. Whoop-te-do, you're at least five years late.

--
O lord, bless this thy holy hand grenade, that with it thou mayest blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy.
Re:Ah, paranoia by cloudwilliam · 2009-09-07 06:02 · Score: 3, Insightful

"Law abiding gun owners aren't the problem, the follow laws... They are the ones who sometimes stop crimes before the police arrive. They are the ones who have CCW permits and stop deranged sociopaths who are going on public murder sprees before they can kill or before they can kill as many people as they'd like to."
Do you have an example of this? I haven't done a lot of research, but it seems that when "deranged sociopaths" do go on "public murder sprees," they tend to have specific targets in mind, say Columbine high school or the Holocaust museum, rather than just random murders of people. And in most of these exceedingly rare cases of mass murder, it's been trained professionals that put an end to the incident, not some Joe Blow packing heat. Even in situations where citizens did act--the Kip Kinkle school shooting and the September 11th flight over Pennsylvania, for example--they acted, and were effective, unarmed.
I mean, sure, public murder sprees happen movies and NRA wet dreams, but not so much in real life. Hypothetical mass murders being an argument for concealed weapons is weak at best. It's specious reasoning because if someone's nutty enough to want to go shooting, they aren't likely to give a shit whether anyone out there is armed or not. You can't guard against something like that any more than you can prevent earthquakes or lightning strikes.
Re:Ah, paranoia by sumdumass · 2009-09-07 06:31 · Score: 3, Insightful

IF you didn't notice, it's because you weren't looking. Gun rights advocates have spoken out against attempts during the bush administration to take guns from us. Bush didn't exactly support those attempts either. It seems to be the democrats that are so scared of what they are doing, they only feel safe when they can take a mans means of protection away from him.

Now that you got a Democratic president, you're all up in arms. Whoop-te-do, you're at least five years late.

So we should just give up and lay down? That's not the way it works. If you are just now finding out what is going on, then it's you who had the problem, not everyone else. Anyways, even if they were asleep at the switch, it's no excuse to all the sudden allow it to happen now. If it was wrong then, it is still wrong now, and if it's still wrong now, then you bringing up the past does nothing but show how much more important it is now to do something.
Seriously, if someone started killing off your immediate family, would you give up and let them finish because you missed them killing the first few people? Or would you fight even harder to protect those who are left?
Re:Ah, paranoia by hardburn · 2009-09-07 06:58 · Score: 3, Insightful

Basically, almost all the people who actually know a thing or two about guns are on the anti-control side of the debate. When the people for gun control write laws, their experience is largely drawn from movies rather than any personal experience, so their laws end up being silly and ineffectual. They also tend to say things like this:

"As unnerving as the Fort Dix terrorism plot was, it could have been all the more worse if the weapons of choice for alleged assailants had been .50 caliber assault guns instead of AK-47s," said Assemblyman Reed Gusciora, D-Mercer.
No, it wouldn't have. In a close quarters battle (which is what the Dix guys were planning), a 50 cal is far too bulky to be usable; we should wish the terrorist were that dumb. An assault rifle, like the AK-47, is ideal for this sort of thing.

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Not a typewriter
Re:Ah, paranoia by jcr · 2009-09-07 08:17 · Score: 4, Insightful

Do you have an example of this?
There were enough examples of this in Israel that the perps switched tactics. Trying to shoot up a shopping mall became ineffective, since the attacker didn't manage to hurt many people before being shot by several armed civilians. They started using improvised rockets instead, with a range of several miles.
Hypothetical mass murders being an argument for concealed weapons is weak at best.
Most of the time, when a firearm is used for self-defense, it's not even necessary to fire it. Just showing it to the perp tends to make them reconsider.
-jcr

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The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."

Perhaps not an AK47 by houghi · 2009-09-07 03:12 · Score: 3, Insightful

But it looks very much like something real to me. Sure you can make fun of people not knowing it does not look like an AK47. I can also imagine that somebody who knows very little about riffles would say 'ak47' where he means 'looks like an assault wepon that is not like any standard hunting rifle'.

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Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.

Re:Perhaps not an AK47 by Vinegar+Joe · 2009-09-07 03:20 · Score: 3, Insightful

At least the cops reacted appropriately, both to the initial information they were given.....
Since Washington is an open carry state where it's legal to carry a firearm openly, how was their reaction appropriate?

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"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
Re:Perhaps not an AK47 by P0ltergeist333 · 2009-09-07 04:01 · Score: 5, Insightful

In an age where it is not unheard of for a citizen to gun down schoolmates and coworkers, I think erring on the side of caution when someone is wielding a dangerous looking weapon in a populated area is appropriate no matter what the gun laws are. And I am not a fan of the police by any means.

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One of these days I'm going to cut you into little pieces. - PF
Re:Perhaps not an AK47 by testadicazzo · 2009-09-07 19:37 · Score: 3, Insightful

Reading the article, there doesn't seem to be any evidence that the person carrying the replica did anything remotely threatening. As for:

The person who had thought they'd seen a gunman in the neighborhood had actually seen a Bungie employee carrying a replica Halo rifle back to the studio's offices, Bungie community director Brian Jarrard told me. Recognizing there was no longer an emergency, officers advised Bungie officials to transport the gun more discretely in the future.
Note that the article says the employee was 'carrying' the weapon, and that police advised Bungee to be more discreet in 'transporting' the replica. So although there are no guarantees, the article certainly implies that the replica was just being carried.
Me, I think the police should have advised the individual who called in not to be such a candy ass in the future. My personal, biased, unscientific risk assessment tells me we suffer far more from excess paranoia than we do from random shootings. I acknowledge that random shootings are a real problem in the U.S., but I think the paranoia we live under is a much bigger problem.

Some people fear guns like they fear bugs by commodore64_love · 2009-09-07 03:17 · Score: 3, Insightful

their way to the local farmer's market called 911 saying that they thought they saw someone walking down the street with an AK-47

I've seen people get paralyzed because a black beetle crawled across the kitchen counter. I suspect many people have the same irrational fear of guns, therefore if you carry ANYTHING that even resembles a gun their first instinct is to call for help (aka "call 911"). It's a phobia which is NOT rational, and it's no wonder they irrationally identified a toygun as an AK-47.

>>>officers advised Bungie officials to transport the gun more discretely in the future.

No. Read the Constitution mister cop (you know, that thing you pledged to protect, but apparently never read). Carrying a flag, sign, or other item is considered "symbolic speech" according to the Supreme Court and therefore protected.

--
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall

Re:Some people fear guns like they fear bugs by bcmm · 2009-09-07 03:33 · Score: 4, Insightful

I've seen people get paralyzed because a black beetle crawled across the kitchen counter. I suspect many people have the same irrational fear of guns, [...] It's a phobia which is NOT rational
The thing that makes the beetle phobia irrational is that the beetle involved is harmless (well, technically I'm probably making an assumption about what part of the world you're from there). Whatever you think about gun control, you surely don't think they aren't dangerous. What exactly would you consider a rational phobia?

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# cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
Re:Some people fear guns like they fear bugs by timholman · 2009-09-07 03:52 · Score: 3, Insightful

>>officers advised Bungie officials to transport the gun more discretely in the future.
No. Read the Constitution mister cop (you know, that thing you pledged to protect, but apparently never read). Carrying a flag, sign, or other item is considered "symbolic speech" according to the Supreme Court and therefore protected.
There's such a thing as being right, and there's such a thing as being stupidly right.
Sure, I have the right to do lots of things. I can stand up in a PTA meeting and say: "I think we ought to reconsider if sexual relationships between students and teachers are really such a bad thing." I can walk up to a group of Hispanics and say: "I really think this country would be better off if you moved to Mexico." According to the Constitution if have the right to do it, but having that right, and dealing with the consequences of exercising that right, are two entirely different things.
Walking down a street carrying what looks like an assault weapon to the average guy on the street is just begging for trouble. Notice that the cop didn't say "Don't carry the replica." He said: "Be discreet. Don't cause people to panic." There is a big difference between the two.
When it comes to exercising and fighting for your rights, choose your battles intelligently. A mature adult chooses discretion and consideration when dealing with his fellow man, not meaningless confrontation just to prove a point.
Re:Some people fear guns like they fear bugs by ceoyoyo · 2009-09-07 04:05 · Score: 4, Insightful

Which makes being alarmed when a stranger walks down a city street with a huge gun not a phobia.
Re:Some people fear guns like they fear bugs by kindbud · 2009-09-07 04:21 · Score: 3, Insightful

It always amazes me that gun owners fail to understand that when people talk about their feelings towards guns, they are really talking about their feelings towards gun-wielders. In this case, the Halo rifle was not walking down the street by itself. It was being wielded by a person. The 911 caller was alarmed by the person carrying what they thought was a powerful weapon.
So remember kids, when we're talking about guns and gun control, we're really talking about gun toters, not inanimate objects.

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Edith Keeler Must Die

Re:Death of the 2nd by dunkelfalke · 2009-09-07 03:30 · Score: 4, Insightful

Bullshit. The Americans are just scared of someone walking around.

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"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap

Re:The police are morons by Rogerborg · 2009-09-07 03:33 · Score: 5, Insightful

+1 Informative, -1 Angry Ranting Nerd.

Washington may be an open carry State, but are fully automatic firearms legal there? Are weapons with a caliber larger than .50 legal? Google before answering, and look at the size of the 'weapon' in question.

Under Washington law, it is an offence to open-carry with the intent to cause alarm. A bystander was alarmed enough to dial 911. It's up to an officer to determine whether that alarm was intentional.

So the police investigated, determined that no crime had been committed, and left some sensible advice. Advice, not orders. Seems about right to me.

Next time you hear about some scruffy looking guy dragging a massive gun down the street, and you choose to move towards that person, then you get to armchair quarterback police response to firearms calls. M'kay?

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If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.

Still looks like a big-ass gun to me... by NoNeeeed · 2009-09-07 03:33 · Score: 4, Insightful

Whether it resembles an AK47 or not, it still looks like a scary looking piece of kit to the untrained eye. I know nothing about guns, and while it looks comically oversized, I wouldn't automatically assume it was fake.

As a part-time theatre tech, I sometimes have to transport fake guns for shows, and I always do it discreetly. Just because I know they are fake, doesn't mean other people will, or indeed should know. It's not like people take classes on gun recognition at school. Unless you have an interest in such things, I don't see why you would know what different guns look like.

Reminds me of that girl who strolled into an airport with circuit-boards, wires and blinking lights attached to her jumper, and was surprised when security got rather twitchy. It might not have looked like a bomb to you and I, but to the average person bought up on a diet of Hollywood films, where the bombs always have sticky out wires and flashing lights (and beep, just to let you know they are there), it certainly looked suspicious.

At least in this case the police were a bit more calm and restrained once they figured out what was going on.

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Paul Leader

Re:Still looks like a big-ass gun to me... by iphayd · 2009-09-07 03:51 · Score: 5, Insightful

Right, but in this instance the police acted appropriately... They were alerted to a potential threat, contained it, discovered it wasn't a threat at all and left. No charges were filed, and a suggestion was given that would result in a whole lot of police and Bungie staff not having their time wasted.
To the guy that said carrying the gun was political speech. Bullshit. In this instance, an employee was carrying a piece of equipment from point a to point b. That equipment just happened to be something that the general public took as a threat. The police suggested a way to alleviate time wasted in the future.
If they were to actually carry this item as political speech, it would be wise to alert the police that you are doing so _before_ you start marching around with a fake gun. Otherwise, you are _very_ likely to be looking down the barrel of a very real gun.

Re:The police are morons by schon · 2009-09-07 03:58 · Score: 3, Insightful

Washington may be an open carry State, but are fully automatic firearms legal there?

An AK-47 is semi-auto, not full-auto, so your question is irrelevant.

Are weapons with a caliber larger than .50 legal?

Again, the AK-47 is *SMALLER*, so why are you asking?

Google before answering, and look at the size of the 'weapon' in question.

The police were called about an AK-47 - not a "big gun I don't know the name of", but (specifically) an AK-47. Seeing as the caller specifically said AK-47, the cop's response should have been "AK-47's are perfectly legal to carry in the open."

Replica guns by slim · 2009-09-07 04:00 · Score: 3, Insightful

In the UK, this could easily result in prosecution for carrying a replica gun. I'm not opposed to that law.

Re:Death of the 2nd by Bigjeff5 · 2009-09-07 04:07 · Score: 3, Insightful

The problem with your view is the fact that it is perfectly legal to carry an un-boxed assault rifle in Washington.

I would agree with you if he were brandishing it at people, that crosses the line, but just carrying it? Since when can you expect to be harrassed by the cops for doing something that is legal? I don't know what kind of world you want to live in, but extrapolate that out to other situations and you've got yourself a big-brother style police state.

What should have happened is this:
Irrational scared citizen: "There's a guy with an AK-47 out here, help!"
911 Operator: "Is the person pointing it at anybody?"
Irrational - "Well no, but he's going to shoot someone I know it!"
911 - "I'm sending a squad car out, stay on the line and tell me if he starts threatening people."

Now, if Bungee employee is dumbass enough to start pointing it at people, pretending it is real, he desearves what he gets. Same with someone brandishing a real gun. But if he's just carrying it, then the cop shows up, investigates, and tells the guy it would be a good idea to keep the gun in a case so he didn't frighten his neighbors.

Swarming Bungee is definitely overkill. If what someone is doing is suspicious but not illegal, you send someone out to make sure it doesn't become illegal, or they don't intend to do something illegal. Hell a few phone calls to nearby business would probably have hit Bungee and they'd have said "Oh shit, that's our employee, it's not a real gun, it's replica of a video game gun."

If you think that anytime someone sees a gun anywhere 911 should be called, you're an idiot. You're the dumbass who has been watching far, far too many mind-numbing action movies, and associates the mere presence of a gun with murder. You're an idiot, plain and simple.

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Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller

Re:AK47? by Razalhague · 2009-09-07 04:10 · Score: 4, Insightful

why would you expect

I expect people to recognize the gun if they call it by name.

Re:The police are morons by eln · 2009-09-07 04:18 · Score: 3, Insightful

The police investigated a complaint involving someone walking around outside an office building with what appeared to be an assault rifle. Would you rather they had told the caller it was probably just a replica, and hung up? How were they to know it was an employee with a fake gun rather than, say, someone on his way to massacre the occupants of the building, without going over and investigating?

Re:AK47? by Anonymous Coward · 2009-09-07 04:33 · Score: 4, Insightful

Actually, considering that my neighbors are all upstanding, law-abiding citizens, I'd be thrilled if they all carried AKs. That'd be one helluva deterrent for criminals thinking about causing trouble.

Re:Death of the 2nd by the_raptor · 2009-09-07 05:10 · Score: 3, Insightful

Bullshit. Nearly every major PD in America has carried AR-15's (civilian version of the M-16) in their patrol cars since shortly after the North Hollywood Shootout.

Considering you are incredibly unlikely to encounter someone carrying an actual assault rifle (no semi-auto EVIL BLACK RIFLES!!!!1111 are not assault rifles, most traditional hunting rifles are deadlier than "Assault Weaponsâ") and doing so is entirely legal, it is silly to send five cars after someone just carrying one. What next? Do you want the police to send five cars when someone sees a "hacker" (aka someone with glasses and a laptop) sitting outside an office building?

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CINC, 4th Penguin Legion

Re:Ugh... by L4t3r4lu5 · 2009-09-07 05:29 · Score: 4, Insightful

You're not far wrong... It doesn't look like an AK-47, but it looks scarily similar to a Barret M107.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=50+cal

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Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/

Re:AK47? by oji-sama · 2009-09-07 07:46 · Score: 3, Insightful

Yeah, and I've never seen them snap...

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It is what it is.

The whole gun arguement can be broken down like.. by msimm · 2009-09-07 11:18 · Score: 3, Insightful

this:

1) a gun is a weapon.
2) a weapon is a tool.
3) such tools can be used to directly influence life.
4) any tool that can directly influence life also effects the socio/political balance of power.
5) both the government and the people want/maintain power, usually for the same reasons.
6) almost anything can be used as a weapon.

Limiting how a tool is used is the right of any society. But forbidding access to such a tool is a sort-sighted attempt to effect the balance of power.

Short-sighted because

6) almost anything can be used as a weapon.

Guns are powerful tools, but certainly not the only tools which can be used to threaten the balance of power.

The kind of corny phrase 'guns don't kill people' is still as true as ever. People can and do use almost anything at their disposal to do it.

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Quack, quack.

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Police Swarm Bungie Office Over Halo Replica Rifle

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