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Mafia Sinks Ships Containing Toxic Waste

Hugh Pickens writes "For years there have been rumors that the mafia was sinking ships with nuclear and other waste on board as part of a money-making racket. Now, BBC reports on a sunken vessel that has been found 30km off the coast of Italy. Murky pictures taken by a robot camera show the vessel intact, and alongside it are a number of yellow barrels with labels indicating the contents are toxic. The ship's location was revealed by Francesco Fonti, an ex-member of Calabria's feared 'Ndrangheta crime group, who confessed to using explosives to sink this vessel and two others as part of an illegal operation to bypass rules on the disposal of toxic waste. Experts are now examining samples taken from the wreck, and an official says that if the samples prove to be radioactive then a search for up to 30 other sunken vessels believed scuttled by the mafia would begin immediately. 'The Mediterranean is 0.7 percent of the world's seas. If in this tiny portion there are more than 30 (toxic waste) shipwrecks, imagine what there could be elsewhere,' says Silvestro Greco, head of Calabria's environment agency."

32 of 401 comments (clear)

  1. No moral fibre by GrahamCox · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Fuck. Me. I sometimes wonder what it must be like to be a person with no moral fibre at all. I can't imagine it, must be weird.

    1. Re:No moral fibre by demonlapin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's highly profitable, that's for sure.

    2. Re:No moral fibre by oldspewey · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not that hard to imagine. Surely there is some part of you - some element(s) of your behaviour - that are driven by profit rather than regard for your fellow humans. It doesn't have to be big, consequential stuff; just think about those times when you're likely to act in your own self interest rather than the greater social good.

      Now, imagine that those motivations make up 90% of your consciousness rather than the (hopefully smaller) percentage they currently do. It's an exercise in relativism, in thinking in degrees rather than absolutes.

      Now spend some time exploring hypothetical situations and imagining how you would react. There's no need to change the basic elements of your personality, just tweak the motivational balance. Are you there? Can you imagine it?

      Congratulations! You're a sociopath!

      --
      If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
    3. Re:No moral fibre by TechForensics · · Score: 5, Informative

      Fuck. Me. I sometimes wonder what it must be like to be a person with no moral fibre at all. I can't imagine it, must be weird.

      My wife's a psychologist and we have discussed such people. The answer to what it's like to be one is depressingly simple. They have no morals to trouble them at all; no conscience, no guilt. They're happy as if they had ethics and compassion.

      There are people who are simply not like us; just not the same.

      --
      Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
    4. Re:No moral fibre by Nursie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Don't forget the element of excuses and justifications!

      What can one little ship matter in such a big sea? Those government types are always making bizarre laws and nothing *that* bad ever happens anyway, does it?

      Sure, it's gonna be fine! I'll just get rid of this for you, it's no big deal...

    5. Re:No moral fibre by sakdoctor · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'd start a record label.

    6. Re:No moral fibre by cthulu_mt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We sleep easier at night. Having a clean conscience and no conscience are effectively the same.

      --
      Virginia is for lovers. EVE is for griefers.
    7. Re:No moral fibre by Swizec · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Fuck. Me. I sometimes wonder what it must be like to be a person with no moral fibre at all. I can't imagine it, must be weird.

      My wife's a psychologist and we have discussed such people. The answer to what it's like to be one is depressingly simple. They have no morals to trouble them at all; no conscience, no guilt. They're happy as if they had ethics and compassion.

      There are people who are simply not like us; just not the same.

      Well to be honest, morals and ethics are just trivial rules communally agrees upon by a society. We find it unethical, perhaps even immoral, to have sex with a 14 year old. But even our own society less than 200 years ago saw nothing unusual in 40 year old men marrying 14 year old girls.

    8. Re:No moral fibre by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The particulars are, to a significant degree, matters of convention; but there is a big difference between people who convention has an inner hold on, and people who observe convention only under external compulsion, if at all.

    9. Re:No moral fibre by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Funny

      Speaking of excuse and justification - This sounds like a good opportunity for the European Union to annex the countries on the northern edge of Africa, claim the Mediterranean Sea as an European inland sea, and bring an end to piracy with strong policing (as the Romans did 2000 years ago). We will, at last, know peace in our time. The Pax Europa.

      Oh wait.
      I forgot.
      This is the EU not the U.S.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    10. Re:No moral fibre by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Morals and ethics are not relative. There is a difference between the specific and the general. The general: it is immoral to coerce someone to have sex with you. The specific: a fourteen year old is unable to make an uncoerced decision to have sex with a 40 year old.
      Hundreds of years ago society did not agree with the specific rule, but it did agree with the general rule. If you examine the moral rules from society to society you will discover that they all follow the same general rules even though the specific rules vary (there may be some exceptions, but those are immoral societies).

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    11. Re:No moral fibre by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Hundreds of years ago society did not agree with the specific rule, but it did agree with the general rule. If you examine the moral rules from society to society you will discover that they all follow the same general rules even though the specific rules vary (there may be some exceptions, but those are immoral societies).

      This is a classic No True Scotsman fallacy

      1. All societies follow generally similar moral rules.
      2. Any society that doesn't is not moral.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    12. Re:No moral fibre by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >>>a fourteen year old is unable to make an uncoerced decision to have sex

      Why not? Lots of 14-year-olds have sex with their boyfriends or girlfriends every day. That's why teen pregnancy is so high (which provides proof they were adult individuals - children are sterile and can't get pregnant). I went to college with a 14 year old, and believe me, he was no dummy. He was fully capable of making adult decisions and handling the adult courseload.

      You see numbers are arbitrary. We pick 16 or 18 or 21 or 25 (congress) or 35 (president) for the same reason we say 70% is a C, 80% is a B, and 90% is an A. It just makes life convenient to assign categories, but the choices are still arbitrary.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    13. Re:No moral fibre by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 5, Funny

      You guys just stopped bleeding from the last time you did it (ask the French about Algeria). It's not *our* fault if you screwed it up.

    14. Re:No moral fibre by Qzukk · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The specific: a fourteen year old is unable to make an uncoerced decision to have sex with a 40 year old.
      Hundreds of years ago society did not agree with the specific rule

      Hundreds of years ago, 14 year olds would have been raised to be responsible for themselves and their families, to support their communities and nations, to hunt or raise their own food, and to make major decisions on their own.

      Now, 14 year olds are raised to take tests and play videogames.

      It isn't "the rule" that has changed.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
  2. Tonight... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Funny

    Toxic waste sleeps with the fishes...

    1. Re:Tonight... by RivenAleem · · Score: 5, Funny

      Tomorrow you sleep with the fish-crab-dolphin hybrid monsters

  3. Any justice though? by Alcimedes · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So then what? Nothing happens to these people? If they are connected to this mess and convicted they should press them into service as part of the clean up process of all this crap. Make them work cleaning up the lethal crap they felt no qualms about exposing everyone else to.

  4. Who is paying them? by pavon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't have a hard time imagining crooked corporations paying to have their chemical waste disposed under the table like this, but who has nuclear waste that would do this? At least here in the US I can't see a power plant getting away with this - they have to keep close account of their material and it is audited pretty closely as well. That would leave mostly medical and scientific sources. I suppose they don't dispose of that directly so the company they paid to take care of it must be crooked.

    The people that made this decision deserve to fry. Too bad it is impossible to create a justice system that I would actually trust to make those sort of decisions.

    1. Re:Who is paying them? by Sockatume · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Doesn't even have to be crooked ones. You put up a legit-looking front and you can get even the good guys' waste floating in the sea. It's got to be a nightmare PR scenario for any company that might have toxic waste to dispose.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
  5. Here's Your Justice Thingee by RobotRunAmok · · Score: 5, Funny

    If they are connected to this mess and convicted

    Good luck with that, as they say. If it's anything like NYC, Justice will pretty much need two separate news crews, six NYPD detectives, nineteen passersby, and a televangelist to witness one of the "made men" machinegun down a busload of out-of-town nuns at high noon in Times Square on the day before Election Day to be served.

    Then the appeals process begins...

  6. Connection to Somali piracy by DriedClexler · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This has long been suspected, and there's a connection to Somali piracy. The mysterious blogger "TokyoTom" has an excellent summary of the research indicating that European companies were using the lack of a government in Somali to dump toxic waste illegally near the coast of Somali, which really wreaked havoc after the 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami, which washed a lot of the crap onshore and caused mass illness.

    There were always suspicious that this illegal dumping was a money source for the Mafia, although even legit businesses seem to have no problem with it. I don't defend Somali pirates, but people forget that it originated from fishers trying to get illegal dumpers to leave the area, then to try to get compensation for what the dumpers did. This doesn't justify piracy, but it does give lie to the notion that they lack a legitimate grievance and are simply out for money, and it helps to explain why they enjoy such support from Somalians.

    I'm surprised the Mafia didn't screw up so bad sooner.

    --
    Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
  7. Corporations and the Mafia by catchblue22 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The line between major corporations and the mafia is a grey one. Do we really think that if a major corporation could get away with this, that they wouldn't do it, if it contributed significantly to their bottom line? Corporate behavior is all about cost-benifit analysis. The mafia operates by a slightly different risk profile. It also seems likely that what we think of as the mafia owns substantial portions of equity in our major corporations.

    Why do I think this comment is appropriate to the discussion? Because I watch the behavior of legitimate corporations and see similarities. Gold mining companies often create huge pools of arsenic waste. The oil sands companies in Canada create huge and persistent pools of massively polluted water, sucking away and polluting water that would have otherwise gone for agriculture or human consumption. Major shipping companies routinely dump their oil laden bilge water in the open ocean. How exactly does this behavior not fall under the category of "organized crime"?

    --
    This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
    1. Re:Corporations and the Mafia by masonc · · Score: 5, Informative

      A few years ago, Royal Caribbean cruise line was found by the US coastguard to have fitted bilge bypass valves on their ships, allowing them to dump oily bilge water at sea with being detected, or so they thought. They were fined heavily for this. They didn't just do it as an afterthought or by accident, they intentionally refitted the ship to be able to do it, meaning the corporation actively intended to pollute the waters they were making their living from. Maybe the scale is different, but the intent is the same.

      --
      CM www.cometenergysystems.com Blog: http://caribbeanrenewable.blogspot.com/
    2. Re:Corporations and the Mafia by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Both exhibit hugely damaging behavior; but there are structural differences worth noting.

      In broad strokes, organized crime exploits the niches created by legal prohibitions, while corporations exploit the niches created by legal allowances.

      Bootlegging, drug running, cigarette smuggling, and illicit waste disposal are all activities that are profitable because they are either illegal, and thus have no legitimate competitors, or have legitimate competitors that operate under considerable restrictions or high taxes. In order to exploit these niches, mafias put resources into stealth and subversion of the law enforcement apparatus(bribing cops, planting informants, intimidating witnesses, etc.). They don't tend to try to alter the law(indeed, the law creates their profitable niche); but simply to evade, subvert, or blunt its enforcement on them.

      Corporate activities tend to focus much more on subverting the law, rather than subverting the law enforcement. Lobbying for softball legislation(in particular, if an industry supports federal regulation of something, that probably means that some state's law pisses them off, and they want it preempted), exploiting loopholes(spinning off shell subsidiaries as owners of all your severely polluted sites, say), moving from country to country to find the most favorable regulatory conditions, buying supreme court justices, and the like; are all about exploiting, and where possible modifying, the structure of the law.

      The two aren't completely distinct, obviously, and both use a mix of tactics(not a few corporations have used outright violence from time to time, and most mafias have substantial interests in legal areas of business); but there behaviors are hardly identical, even if the results sometimes are.

    3. Re:Corporations and the Mafia by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Just a fine? Sounds to me as though the ship(s) should have been forfeited and sold at auction.

    4. Re:Corporations and the Mafia by Dog-Cow · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, the Board of Directors should have been sold at auction.

  8. Strange Reasoning.. by kevinNCSU · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The Mediterranean is 0.7 percent of the world's seas. If in this tiny portion there are more than 30 (toxic waste) shipwrecks, imagine what there could be elsewhere,' says Silvestro Greco, head of Calabria's environment agency.

    Isn't that like saying "OMG, this chainsaw massacre crime scene is just .00000000000000000001% of the earth's surface, so if there's 5 dismembered bodies here just imagine how many more there could be elsewhere?! You should totally give my Agency more money."

  9. Something to think about by copponex · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is something I think about all the time.

    It could be argued that we are all immoral, because we are not interested in the consequences of our actions. The mafia crook dynamiting the ship with toxic waste isn't much different from an "waste resources" executive who bargains to send toxic waste to countries who need the money. One is exalted, one reviled, yet they both basically do the same thing. The executive simply pretends that the waste is properly disposed of in another country. The mafia crook doesn't kid himself. He knows the truth, and accepts it.

    Which person is more immoral? Where does accountability figure into the equation? And where in a capitalist equation do you enter the morality quotient? Who enforces it?

    These questions are simply not asked, because no one really wants the answer. For me, voluntary ignorance is immoral, and represents one of the great evils in the world today.

  10. Re:The mob in italy by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Because, in Southern Italy, the mafia has taken over a lot of the roles more commonly associated with a government (given that they are not a government, this presumably makes Southern Italy a Libertarian Utopia). Removing them is not easy when they are entrenched into every layer of society. In some places they actually receive higher approval ratings than the government; they don't interfere too much with the general populous and the protection money that they pay actually does buy them protection (what the Mafia will do to you if you rob a shop that is under their protection is a lot more of a deterrent to petty thieves than what the police will do to you, and the Mafia are a lot more likely to catch you because they also control the fences you would use to shift the stolen goods).

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  11. Re:Obligatory film tip: Gomorra by Minwee · · Score: 4, Funny

    To get a good impression of 'Ndrangheta's involvement with toxic waste, go see Gomorra

    And to see the possible effects of their involvement with toxic waste, go see Gamera.

  12. Actually, it's slightly different by Moraelin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Actually, I think the emphasis was a bit wrong on "ethics" and "morals". A more correct definition is that some people lack "empathy". See, psychopathy.

    Morals and ethics can be see as an agreed upon code, but empathy is something built in and arguably hard-wired. See, mirror neurons.

    In effect, most of those morals and ethics -- and the real reason why most people go along with them -- are based on that empathy. We're hard-wired to be nice to our fellow humans. Well, about 97% of us, anyway. We don't kill basically because at a hard-wired level something says "well, _I_ wouldn't like to be killed." We don't steal for the same reason. Etc.

    To address your objection: We agree to not have sex with a 14 year old, basically because nowadays we understand that it would cause some psychological harm and that it would make her parents very unhappy. And we're nicer than that.

    But it's a bit deeper, actually. It's not just about direct harm, it's that we tend to understand that others have the same needs on Maslow's pyramid, so to speak. Even without knowing what those are. We tend to realize that others need to feel safe too, for example. Or that they need their private space too. Etc.

    Basically while the actual social contract may vary and is subjective, it's based upon something which doesn't. Sure, we may find different solutions to the same problem, but that problem is real and pretty objective. (You can actually see it on an MRI scan, if you want something which isn't dependent of subjective interpretations.)

    A second factor is that, essentially, we're social animals and want to belong in a group of our peers. (See Maslow's pyramid again.) We want to be accepted, maybe even appreciated, etc. We're prepared to work out a compromise to that end, so the group can function or even exist.

    There are rules and morals and ethics which, basically, solve _that_ problem. They're how the group organizes itself, so it can exist as a group. I won't stress you, if you won't stress me, and all that, in a nutshell.

    That's something that all the moral relativists seem to miss. They dig up some seemingly arbitrary rule, like "don't have sex with too young people", and wave it as a banner for the idea that all rules are just arbitrary conventions. But they miss the foundation for that body of rules, and the purpose they serve. But I digress.

    Sociopaths are amoral basically because they lack that foundation which makes the other people be moral and ethical. The difference is basically at a different level than the morals and ethics themselves.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.