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Wolfenstein Being Recalled In Germany
D1gital_Prob3 tips news that Activision's recently-released shooter, Wolfenstein, is being recalled in Germany due to the appearance of swastikas in the game. Such symbols are banned in Germany, and the German version of the game went through heavy editing to remove them. Apparently, they missed some. Activision said, "Although it is not a conspicuous element in the normal game ... we have decided to take this game immediately from the German market." Reader eldavojohn points out a review that has screenshot comparisons between the two versions of the game.
Apparently this is the reason that it has to be pulled from the market. I don't know about you but I find the rationale for this type of censorship to be utterly absurd. So much for free speech.....
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
So just release a modified version of Wolfenstein that focuses on commies rather than nazis called "Trotskydoom" wherein the objective is to blow away all of the Bolsheviks that are confiscating food from the farmers to impose the famine of 1921 on rural Russians. I mean, come on, there isn't anywhere in the world the hammer and sickle are outlawed and the commies killed far more than the nazis did so it should be even more fun than Wolfenstein!
Seastead this.
It's been over 60 years, Germany. You don't have to worry about symbolism bringing back the Nazi party; most of them are dead. Your reasons for denying the existence of history are over now. It's time to give free speech a try.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
but the invisible-to-my-eye Swastikas are not?
Don't you know that human beings are so impressionable that all they need is to see a small swastika and they will instantly volunteer to help load the boxcars? Clearly we need a benevolent government to protect us from such evil.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Beyond the obvious problems with censorship in general, this kind of "censorship" where superficial elements are removed while keeping the overall spirit and subject matter of the game (come on, who wouldn't figure out looking at those obfuscated Nazi banners what the REAL symbol is supposed to mean) is abous as ridiculous as Japanese censorship laws, where you can make the most perverted porn than any other country in the world, but must superficially pixelate certain parts.
If you are not willing to forgo censorship alltogether, at least do it "right". What's done here detracts from immersion while serving absolutely no purpose towards whatever your censorship laws are trying to serve (unless their purpose is to ruin immersion, that is)
Stuff like this is one reason out of many I'm very wary of social progressives. Germany is a socially progressive state, and I don't think it's at all a coincidence that such censorship exists. Of course the social progressives are going to come out of the woodwork to justify it by scaring people up about the possibility of Nazis arising again and so on and so forth, but I guess sacrificing freedom in order to protect it is just a necessity to them. Individual freedom is on the down-and-out world-wide in the name of social consensus and thus niche groups (including nerds and gamers) suffer the most.
The Swastika didn't kill anyone.
A bunch of jackasses did. Why don't you just outlaw people planning to kill other people?
Do you think not having a Swastika will prevent a dictator or demagogue from choosing a different symbol to hide behind?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
If it's so bad, why the hell do they censor it when the point of the game is to lay waste to everything it stands for?
Of course, rationality is far too much to expect from a censorship board.
Witness the USA's own B Obama and the renewed, continuing, supported powers under the Patriot Act and patriot Act II. There, fixed that for ya.
Shame the anti-Nazi folk couldn't give you a break
I'm anti-Nazi. Everyone here is (hopefully) anti-Nazi. That doesn't mean we should censor their symbols out of existence or try to ignore history.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Here's a huge list of screenshots of differences between uncensored and german version
Wow how did you ever find that link? Did you actually read the summary or something?
The interesting thing now is if they're gonna remove that texture, remaster, repackage and send the new ones to all stores again, even more so because the game is over an month old now and the best sales are already gone.
German law Strafgesetzbuch Section 86:
Dissemination of Means of Propaganda of Unconstitutional Organizations (1) Whoever domestically disseminates or produces, stocks, imports or exports or makes publicly accessible through data storage media for dissemination domestically or abroad, means of propaganda: 1. of a party which has been declared to be unconstitutional by the Federal Constitutional Court or a party or organization, as to which it has been determined, no longer subject to appeal, that it is a substitute organization of such a party; [...] 4. means of propaganda, the contents of which are intended to further the aims of a former National Socialist organization, shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine. [...] (3) Subsection (1) shall not be applicable if the means of propaganda or the act serves to further civil enlightenment, to avert unconstitutional aims, to promote art or science, research or teaching, reporting about current historical events or similar purposes. [...] Section 86a StGB Use of Symbols of Unconstitutional Organizations (1) Whoever: 1. domestically distributes or publicly uses, in a meeting or in writings (Â 11 subsection (3)) disseminated by him, symbols of one of the parties or organizations indicated in Section 86 subsection (1), nos. 1, 2 and 4; or 2. produces, stocks, imports or exports objects which depict or contain such symbols for distribution or use domestically or abroad, in the manner indicated in number 1, shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine. (2) Symbols, within the meaning of subsection (1), shall be, in particular, flags, insignia, uniforms, slogans and forms of greeting. Symbols which are so similar as to be mistaken for those named in sentence 1 shall be deemed to be equivalent thereto.
Note: I do not agree with the German governments staunch policy against symbols but they're free to govern as they see fit (pending the EU's approval). If they want to keep selling the game in Germany, they might want to uphold German laws. I don't know how many gamers are in Germany but they have a population of about 82 million and I think that it's a safe bet some "texture, remaster, repackage" can be afforded for that market.
My work here is dung.
Ignoring history (or hiding from it) seems to be the basis of these laws. It strikes me as hugely contradictory to outlaw both denying the holocaust and displaying a swastika. It's an unfortunate historical relic - Deal with it...
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
I think the anti-Nazi laws made sense in the first decade or two after the end of WWII, and maybe an argument can be made right through the Cold War, but come on. Is there anybody out there who seriously still has a Thatcheristic fear that they'll be burning the Reichstag again?
Yes, there are some neo-Brown Shirt skin heads out there, and all the anti-Nazi symbolism laws in Germany and Austria haven't seemed to put much of a dent in them. Short of shooting anyone who looks remotely like a Hitler lover, I think the time has come and gone when the laws could be justified.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
You simply have no idea of the significance of Nazi symbols in Europe; the US was never invaded, and the US Government took good care not to expose US citizens to the truth about the Allied invasion of Europe, concealing (for instance) the horrors of D-Day and the Bulge. Your Government takes good care that you don't know what war is like, especially since public reaction ended the ground war in Vietnam.
When you emerge from your bedrooms and basements, try visiting Germany and the east and actually learning some real history. Then you might understand why, to much of Europe, the use of Nazi symbols in a game is highly inappropriate. But, until you are grown up and actually know something about the world other than soundbites and games, shut the fuck up about civil liberties in a country about which you clearly know less than nothing. And yes, you do make me cross. Go talk to some of the American survivors of WW2, they might tell you a thing or two.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Seriously, fuck you. And get back to me when you can say that on American television; until then, continue denying that anyone in America ever fucked.
-- Language is a virus from outer space.
Mod parent insightful, not funny. Seriously though, Buddhism used the swastika (usually a mirror image though) . This was done up until Germany rendered it a vile symbol. Before that it meant good fortune and other positive things. Men give these symbols meaning. The geometry is indifferent.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
The trouble is, laws like this are incredibly difficult to get rid of. What politician wants to stand up and denounce such a law, at the risk of looking like a Nazi sympathiser?
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Gotta 3 /.
But, IMO, it's about time to start letting that censorship crap go. Really. Apparently, the game is perfectly legal and acceptable all around the world, except Germany. After 6 decades it's just time to move on. And, no, "moving on" doesn't mean forgetting the lessons of the past - it only means accepting the lessons, then moving on. Nothing more, nothing less.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Symbols do empower.
Rituals too.
The point is that banning a symbol doesn't change people. And symbol gets its meaning from people. It only suppresses expression of their true wishes. They'd find another symbol - and another scapegoat to blame for their problems - as soon as they would accumulate enough negative emotions.
What actually happened is that svastika's relation to Hitler and nazis was as good as perpetuated by the ban. IOW, you can't get over the problem by forcing yourself to stop thinking about. That simply doesn't work.
Germany would have more success parting svastika from its past by doing reverse: paint svastikas with flowers and funny colors and and slap them all over the country.
Make people smile at it - not shun it. Suppression doesn't work - reframing does.
All hope abandon ye who enter here.
I'm going to be brutally honest, at the risk of sounding like a conspiracy nut: I assumed that the symbolism of Nazism was still banned so that, if ever the country went down a similar road, they would at least never*look*like Nazis again,and would in the process of nazification be able to point to the fact that Nazi symbolism etc was still banned.
In fact, while a swastika can be intimidating, what was dangerous was a group of people acting on certain ideals. So it would be much better if the ideological descendants of those people, trying to act on those ideals again, would do it openly with all the symbolism that reminds us of why we didn't like them the first time round.
I think the issue is with where to draw the line. Obviously, someone shouldn't be allowed to fly the flag of Nazi Germany outside their house, as that would be extremely intimidating to anyone living nearby who belongs to any of the groups Nazis don't like. By banning the swastika nearly outright, they avoid situations where someone could claim it was there for some artistic, ironic reason.
Actually, it wouldn't be intimidating. If you tried this (and it was legal), I can guarantee that the flag, the flagpole, the garden fence, your windows and many other things would be gone very soon.
'Cause the Poles fought back?
Play Command HQ online
Would you see the harm in outlawing the christian cross? How about the pentagram? How about the star of david? The moon and star? The hammer and sickle?
While we're at it, I don't see the harm in outlawing a lot of things. But then again, my views are going to be different from many others and that is the point. What is harmful is one body limiting the free expression and opinion of others, even [and especially] "unpopular thought."
I can still say "nigger" legally and I'm thankful for it. There are likely to be other consequences, but they are not imposed by law and that's the way it should be. If the game that contains swastikas is shunned by the people of Germany, that is good. If some Germans don't care and would enjoy playing the game? That's good too. But when one body says that some things are illegal because it contains offensive symbols? I have to take issue with it.
Now I can hear comments coming ... "what about child porn then?! isn't that the same body telling us that some things are illegal because it contains offensive content?" Well yes... yes it is and I have issues with that as well. Would I rather that child porn not exist? Yeah, certainly. Would I prefer that rape never occur? Yes. Would I wish that images of mutilated bodies from war and disaster not appear in public? Absolutely. I think materials and information like these should be legal. The line should be drawn at the action people take. Don't war. Don't cause mass destruction. Don't murder or rape. And most certainly don't exploit children who are not capable of making choices for themselves. These are actions that should all be prohibited by law and punishable. But things like porn are subjective and the grey areas are far too many. (Some say that cartoons depicting children in sexual situations is child porn... but isn't child porn law supposed to focus on the exploitation of children and not crimes of thought and imagination?)
The line between thought and action is pretty clear and obvious. Punish actions, not thoughts.
Obviously, someone shouldn't be allowed to fly the flag of Nazi Germany outside their house
When you start that sentence out with "obviously" I fear you've already missed the mark.
In the US south confederate flags are flown often. In other parts of the world swastikas are common decoration, even decorating holy temples.
Taking a stance like yours only empowers those icons and enables them to continue to be a hot topic decades later. If, after the civil war, nigger had been legally banned and the government moved to great lengths to eradicate its usage, I'd argue that it would hold *significantly* more power than it does today.
Obviously, someone shouldn't be allowed to fly the flag of Nazi Germany outside their house
Why is this obvious? People fly the confederate flag all the time. Yeah, I'm sure it's offensive to many groups, but that's the problem with free speech, it's often offensive.
I mean unless you were a nazi why risk something that matters over advocating repealing anti-nazi laws? A non-nazi who wanted the anti-nazi laws repealed might mention that restricting free speech is a bad idea, but free speech minus schwa stickers is free speech still. Hardly anyone misses the schwa sticker, and of those that do miss it the vast majority hardly ever miss it. There happens to be no compelling need for the schwa sticker itself. Of course it's absence probably makes it more conspicuous.
...
Two words for you, my man:
Sunset provision.
I have no problem with justified, situational revoking of limited subsets of liberty, provided it expires. For instance, I had no problem with the original USA PATRIOT act, solely because it would expire after a year, and hey, people were scared and needed a bit of security theater. Then, they went ahead and renewed it, and made it permanent... THAT was a stupid move.
Displaying the confederate flag doesn't generally imply a threat of violence.
Maybe not to you...
"I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
The original (pre-Nazi) swastika is still used in Japan too. It's all over the maps there--it marks the location of temples.
Also, those of you who have character palettes on your computers, look up Unicode code points 534D and 5350. I wonder if those are blank on German computers.
Additionally, regarding the well known history of Germany there is NO REASON to show, wear or use Nazi symbols other than for a) education (allowed) or b) propaganda for forces against the German democracy (disallowed).
So which is Wolfenstein?
The fact that a bolt of lightning hasn't come down from the heavens and fried guys like you where you sit is one of the top reasons I'm an atheist.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
How does censoring hate speech stop hate? It hasn't done so in Austria and Germany. You don't extinguish evil ideas by banning them, you extinguish them with counter-argument and facts. Only a fool believes that censorship leads to freedom.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
If someone were to fly as confederate flag as in implicit threat to murder his black neighbours, then I think he should be made to take it down. I'm not from the US, but I get the impression that it's more often used as a symbol of disliking the federal government. I don't see that (seriously) showing a Nazi flag could ever not be taken as a threat against the Jewish/Roma/whatever population of a city.
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
I don't see that (seriously) showing a Nazi flag could ever not be taken as a threat against the Jewish/Roma/whatever population of a city.
That's absurd. It's just a flag. If someone puts up a flag and they are a person who will engage in violence against some other group of people, how is them not being able to put up the flag going to change anything?
People are too goddamned cowardly these days.