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Honda Makes Nanotube Breakthrough

SkinnyGuy writes "Carbon nanofibers and nanotubes are the future of computers, cars, energy and more, but it won't happen until someone figures out how to make carbon nanotubes more efficiently and in formations that can deliver enough energy and functionality to offer practical solutions for real-world problems. Honda's latest breakthrough could be the first step. Of course, Intel is working on similar carbon nanotube fabrication technology. Whoever finally delivers a practical solution, it sounds like a win-win for us."

22 of 88 comments (clear)

  1. Seems Wasteful by BigSes · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Use only as a pure conductive option? There should be so many more intelligent applications that could be used.

    1. Re:Seems Wasteful by John+Hasler · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You consider cheaper, more efficient power transmission, smaller, cheaper, more efficient motors, lighter, cheaper cars, etc. "unintelligent"? Ok, how about more efficient antennas for your cellphones leading to longer battery life? Surely you would consider that a Nobel-grade breakthrough!

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      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    2. Re:Seems Wasteful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That thought process works to dim the interest of the story, don't you think? Implementation into all of the technology you mentioned would take years. Hence, I'm more excited to hear that they have actually achieved a level of stability with the product, but simply for conductivity seems anti-climactic. I suppose I'm more interested and impressed with Intel's intentions.

      Oh, yeah, and let us not forget...lighter and cheaper cars? RECENTLY the cost of a hybrid or electric car is becoming reasonable enough to pay for itself in a decade. Just because a tech is new and amazing doesn't mean that mean that a company won't milk it for all it worth until it gets much more widespread. I'm sure Honda is going to release a Prius upgraded with nanotubes for just a few thousand dollars, all on the basis of it being lighter weight and more efficient that current models (oh, and good for society, since corporations are so altruistic). Being naive about the price of any tech made for hipsters and early-adopters seems to be an "unintelligent" point of view.

    3. Re:Seems Wasteful by wizardforce · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Nanotubes can theoretically carry a current of 1 billion Amps/cm^2 which is over a thousand times the current at which Copper gets fried. THey are also lighter and far stronger than any other conductor we have tested. Upwards of 200x as strong as medium grade steel and 4x less dense. Not even superconductors can carry the amount of power we are talking about here as the magnetic fields created by such a current destroy the superconductivity of all known examples of superconductors well before this amount of current is reached.

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      Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
    4. Re:Seems Wasteful by Jeremi · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wake me up when I can head down to the market and buy a widget made with nanotubes.

      This is Slashdot ("news for nerds"). The site you seem to be looking for is Consumer Reports. Everything discussed on that site is available for sale now, and they won't bother you with any of that horrible "science stuff".

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      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
  2. win-win by gmuslera · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Unless whoever gets it put a big fat expensive patent around it.

    1. Re:win-win by karnal · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's not fat, it's just big boned.

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      Karnal
    2. Re:win-win by plague911 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is why the Chinese are helpful to the technological world. If Intel or Honda makes a breakthrough and gets a patant. The Chinese will just copy is and sell it for dirt cheap. So the choice for consumers becomes Cheap and shady or Expensive and "clean" If Intel or Honda charge too much for their patent than cheap and shady will win. Its a ballance of powers.

    3. Re:win-win by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What do you mean shady? Patents are something that shouldn't exist in the first place! There is nothing shady about ignoring them, especially if it's legal in the country of residence.

      People should realise that invention is not A to B, but it is a feedback loop! If you make it hard to go from B to C, it's pointless!

      --
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      Be yourself no matter what they say
    4. Re:win-win by navyjeff · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is why the Chinese are helpful to the technological world. If Intel or Honda makes a breakthrough and gets a patant. The Chinese will just copy is and sell it for dirt cheap. So the choice for consumers becomes Cheap and shady or Expensive and "clean" If Intel or Honda charge too much for their patent than cheap and shady will win. Its a ballance of powers.

      If a Chinese product infringes on an American patent, importing the product becomes illegal. So then they can sell it to India or Malaysia or whoever doesn't have that patent registered in their system. I don't really find that helpful.

      Patents in the US only last about 20 years, but it's usually more expedient and profitable to license such a patent.

    5. Re:win-win by sconeu · · Score: 2, Funny

      I believe the PC term is "gravitationally enhanced"

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    6. Re:win-win by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Without patents, there is a huge incentive to keep all commercializable discoveries and inventions secret,

      It doesn't work that way. The only way to keep it secret is to not sell it; as soon as you sell something, it can be first copied and later reverse-engineered and duplicated. These are the distribution-related problems patents were allegedly created to solve.

      In my opinion that's a better result than having the invention remain secret forever.... YMMV.

      You are committing the logical fallacy of false dichotomy. Given a choice between making some profit by selling an unpatented product, and no profit by not selling an unpatented product, the choice is fairly clear. Any product not produced because there is no patent protection is either obvious (which is why it's easy to copy) or a bullshit novelty. Anything else requires infrastructure to produce, and time to reverse-engineer.

      Perhaps patents could be replaced by a law prohibiting selling outright copies, forcing competitors to reverse-engineer your work. They would still do this, so the technology would still be understood in time. Or maybe it's enough just to shorten their term; as we approach the technological singularity, developments should come closer together. Patent law is only slowing down this process; we should at minimum shorten patent terms to match the speed of progress.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    7. Re:win-win by lokiomega · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Given a choice between making some profit by selling an unpatented product, and no profit by not selling an unpatented product, the choice is fairly clear.

      Or more likely, losing money from R&D funds not being recouped from insufficient sales. Patents are a good idea by creating an incentive to innovate. It's the abuse of the patent system that's stalling creativity, not the system itself.

  3. Nanotubes... by cheesybagel · · Score: 2, Funny

    Useful for everything, used in nothing.

    1. Re:Nanotubes... by wizardforce · · Score: 4, Interesting

      First of all that isn't quite true. Nanotubes are now used as the tips of some STMs, bucky paper composites, single nanotube transistors and a few others. THe major hurdle to the widespread use of nanotubes is solely due to their high cost. They are about ~1000$/gram the last time I checked so really they'd need to be pretty special to justify that kind of cost.

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      Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
    2. Re:Nanotubes... by dhovis · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If you can show me a shipping product with a single nanotube transistor, I'll eat my hat. STM tips are a pretty limited market. I can't find any references to commercial buckypaper composities either.

      We actually have a buckyball (C60) ion gun for use with our Time-of-Flight Secondary Ion Mass Spectrometer (TOF-SIMS). As far as I know, these ion guns are the only existing commercial use for buckyballs. It isn't exactly a huge market.

      Fullerenes have been around for nearly 25 years now. It they had anything more than hype, they'd be commercialized by now. I'm not saying it isn't possible, but none of the press releases I've ever read about fullerenes has lead to anything more than another press release.

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      The internet is the greatest source of biased information in the history of mankind.

    3. Re:Nanotubes... by russotto · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Fullerenes have been around for nearly 25 years now. It they had anything more than hype, they'd be commercialized by now.

      You could say the same about aluminum before development of the Bayer process, or titanium prior to the Kroll process. This could be the equivalent for nanotubes.

      But, probably not...

  4. Filtering? by pitterpatter · · Score: 3, Interesting

    TFA speaks of filtering the semiconducting fibers from the conducting ones as if this might be a big deal. I would have thought that magnetic separation would be the obvious solution. Am I missing something?

    The physical behavior of a conductor moving with respect to a magnetic field is so dramatically different than that of a non-conductor that I have to believe that a semiconductor would behave differently also.

    My favorite demo of this effect is to drop a strong magnet through a section of aluminum conduit. The magnet falls normally when released next to but outside the pipe, but a strong magnet can take up to five minutes to fall through the inside. A cow magnetin a half inch pipe is particularly effective.

  5. A perfect solution. by B5_geek · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Lets imagine for a second a future where our 'pollution' is the base building material for the majority of products constructed.

    Carbon nanotubes/fibers could be the perfect sequestering medium/method for all the CO2 in the atmosphere. They have already shown to be such a useful product, we are continually finding new ways to make use of them. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that only iron has proven to be as diverse.

    If mass-production ever takes off I suggest we proclaim this to be the birth of the Carbon age.

    --
    "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
    1. Re:A perfect solution. by dbIII · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's is a well known problem with small fibres which people have been keeping in mind with this sort of research for 40 years or so.

  6. Ultracapacitors by questionableswami · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The one place where nanotubes might be of the most benefit is boosting the storage in ultracapacitors. The technology is making advances towards the point where they might match or surpass batteries.

  7. What I find funny... by Rei · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What I find funny about all this is that Honda, the biggest, most anti-electric-vehicle automaker out there, may just have given electric vehicles the best gift they could have asked for. Not in terms of batteries, but in terms of nanotube-composite charging cables. Optimal metallic nanotubes have a resistivity a tiny fraction that of copper; they're practically room temperature superconductors, in terms of resistance. And it's directional, too -- the current flows readily down the length of the tubes, but poorly from side to side. I've seen varying numbers, and I think it depends on the types of tubes and their application, but this article says that CNTs on microchips can carry 1,000 times the current density of copper and silver. Now, you won't get that extreme level in a composite, but those are still amazing numbers to have as a starting point.

    In short, they're perfect for the ideal super-high-power charging cable. Far thinner, lighter, and less cooling needed for a given power output. You could probably have a cable off that monster 800kW charger Aerovironment made for TARDEC be light enough for a six year old to handle.

    Obviously, the ultra-high-power chargers still need the typical battery buffer so that they don't strain the grid, but if metallic CNT cables hit the market, there will be some serious current flowing with a much lower charger size and cost. :)

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