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Palm Ignores USB-IF Warning, Restores iTunes Sync

Posted by kdawson on from the gauntlet-firmly-on-floor dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Palm's cat and mouse game with Apple continues. Ignoring the warning from the USB Implementers Forum, with its WebOS 1.2.1 release this morning Palm has restored iTunes media synchronization in its new Pre smartphone — and gone so far as to extend sync to photos. And, according to Digital Daily, it has done this, once again, by using Apple's USB vendor ID. Does the USB-IF have any recourse here? Does Apple?"

12 of 656 comments (clear)

  1. I remember by ShakaUVM · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I remember a time when it was legal to reverse engineer things for compatibility purposes. (Was a long time ago... the 90s, perhaps?)

    I lot of people are complaining the Palm thing smacks of fraud, but it is no different than telling Microsoft Word that the document is opening was made by Word instead of Open Office for compatibility reasons.

    Also, the argument that Apple needs to break compatibility in order to protect itself is complete bullshit. If my Palm doesn't sync with iTunes, I'm going to bitch about it to Palm. Nobody expects iTunes to work.

    1. Re:I remember by Idbar · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You're right, proof of that is that IE and Safari still add the string Mozilla to their User-Agents.

      If that ensures compatibility, of Palm's products, I guess they are making the effort to keep their customers happy (even though iTunes, at least for Windows, is the worst piece of software ever).

    2. Re:I remember by ceoyoyo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes, they "allow" it by providing a human readable, documented XML file which is kept updated by iTunes only for the convenience of third parties (iTunes uses it's own, binary database). I'm not sure what more they could do to "allow" third party access to the iTunes database.

      No, Apple doesn't write the sync software for you. Why should they? Write your own.

      The point about legacy DRMed music is interesting. Do DRMed files work on a Pre synced through iTunes?

  2. Re:Apple's activity is criminal here, Palm's is le by itzdandy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    IANAL *BUT* I do believe that Palm can legally do whatever they like with the USB-compatible ports but what they might be doing wrong is continuing to call the port USB. to be USB to must meet the specs, and palm is breaking those specs so might be in trademark violation of the USB name and logo. They could just name the port something else and maintain compatability but I done think it is legit to call the port a USB port.

  3. Re:Stop buying from Apple. by beelsebob · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Third possible explanation:

    They don't let a political argument between two companies stand in the way of buying the device they see as best suiting their needs.

  4. Patents by tepples · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I do believe that Palm can legally do whatever they like with the USB-compatible ports but what they might be doing wrong is continuing to call the port USB.

    Unless USB-IF ties the USB patent license to the USB logo license.

    1. Re:Patents by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Or USB-IF could revoke the patent license because Palm is not following their regulations. Then Palm can be sued for patent infringement.

      Which'll never happen. Palm may not have the best product now, but they had several years' head start on just about everyone. Can you imagine how many iPhone features are covered by Palm patents?

      If Apple sues Palm, or if they start a proxy war through the USB-IF, they might as well move their company from California to East Texas, because they'll spend the rest of their lives in patent litigation.

    2. Re:Patents by steve_bryan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Brief answer: Yes, a mere figment. The Apple Newton is recognizably an ancestor to the current iPhone/iPod touch. The Psion products from the late 80's are more like pocket calculators with an attitude. Apple created the category of PDA's at least a decade too early and dropped it because of the product being commercially untenable at the time. Remarkably they managed to sneak back in under the pretense of creating media players and arrived just as the needed technology and infrastructure matured.

      To be less brief in my dismissal of Psion compare the API's and development system that Apple provided for third party developers for the Newton versus what Psion had. The difference was much more than slight.

  5. Re:I Wonder What Would Happen If... by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 4, Interesting

    One difference: with Ethernet, duplication of MAC addresses causes a malfunction of the network itself. Prefixes are assigned to companies for a technical purpose: to insure no two companies ever manufacture cards that share an address. The USB vendor ID isn't used for addressing, so as long as the device correctly implements the capabilities it advertises itself as implementing (which aren't tied to vendor ID) there should be no hardware-level malfunctions. Apple's trying to use the vendor ID merely to block sync with devices that would otherwise be technically perfectly capable of correctly syncing with iTunes. IMO it's Apple's right to try that, but nobody else is obliged to go along with them.

    I'd note that vendor impersonation has a long history. Microsoft themselves do it, Internet Explorer to this day claims to be Mozilla in it's user-agent string, and this was done with the deliberate intention of fooling Web servers into thinking it was actually Netscape.

  6. Re:To give people an analogous situation by erroneus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Microsoft has already been taken to court and lost for behavior that is quite similar to what you describe.

  7. How do they sync back? by Kaseijin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Answer: they don't, because iTunes just overwrites the XML file. Apple devices sync back, and so do Palm devices when Apple isn't getting in the way.

    1. Re:How do they sync back? by JohnFen · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If Apple let third party devices to sync back to iTunes then it would be possible for a poorly designed device to cause serious harm to your media library. Supporting such devices in a relatively safe manner is possible but it would be very expensive.

      I hear this sort of argument all the time from Apple fans. The thing is, this sounds like Apple insulting their users -- in effect, calling them all dumbasses that need to be restricted in what they can do because in the end they'll blame Apple for things Apple has no fault in.

      Perhaps that's true, and Apple fans are largely stupid. Or perhaps Apple fans are largely intelligent and Apple is wrong in being so condescending.

      Either way, that argument tells me that Apple does not make products that are aimed at people like me -- intelligent,sophisticated users who want flexibility and freedom.

      That, at the root of it, is why I don't, and won't, buy anything Apple and discourage others from doing the same.