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Will Books Be Napsterized?

langelgjm writes "An article from yesterday's New York Times asks the question: will books be Napsterized? So far, piracy of books has not reached the degree of music or movie piracy, in part due to the lack of good equipment on which to read and enjoy pirated books. The article points to the growing adoption of e-book readers as the publishing industry's newest nemesis. With ever-cheaper ways to conveniently use pirated books, authors and publishers may be facing serious changes ahead. This is something I wrote about three months ago in my journal, where I called the Kindle DX an 'iPod for books.'"

48 of 350 comments (clear)

  1. Already happened by CRCulver · · Score: 4, Informative

    I travel most of the year and don't like to lug too many books around. But I always have my laptop (yes, the screen is not ideal, but still...). A surprisingly large amount of what I want to read -- even obscure academic monographs -- are already available as scanned or OCRed PDFs on websites based in the former Soviet Union. It is in fact quite rare for me not to find what I'm looking for, and just as with music from file-sharing services, I've already downloaded more books than I'll ever be able to get through.

    1. Re:Already happened by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, Avax seems to be quite popular, even though for some reason they moved their domain from Russia to West Samoa, of all places. Hmm, I wonder what the reason might have been? ;-)

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    2. Re:Already happened by mrmeval · · Score: 3, Informative

      Free library of Baen science fiction books http://www.baen.com/library/defaultTitles.htm

      This is run by Baen but carries other publishers books. It is a no drm subscription service. You can also get electronic advanced reader copies of some books.
      http://www.webscription.net/

      You can buy individual books or a monthly offering.
      http://www.webscription.net/c-81-2009-webscriptions.aspx

      --
      I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
    3. Re:Already happened by Squalish · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Books are usually around 1Mb.

      How many people listen to music they've downloaded, vs read books they've downloaded? How willing are people to stockpile books they might want to read, versus music they might want to listen to?

      I have a friend with more books on his hard drive than my county library system has on their shelves. In case he ever wants to read them. In case of nuclear war. In case of anything. He finds that about half of my new-read requests are fulfilled on the internet, via simple torrent sites which are 1-step removed from the usenet and IRC scene. Surprisingly, this hasn't affected his buying habits.

      He told me to start with the Great Science Textbooks 2007 DVD library, which comes in 20 parts (the final one was a few months ago, when the Knowledge-Should-Be-Free-based releaser considered his quest finished and stopped compiling), and covers a lot more than physics and biology. Supplement that with a few science fiction library dumps, some programming stuff in areas you're interested in, and you're golden to read until you die.

      Oh, and get Calibre.

      --
      People in Soviet Russia, however, appear to be afflicted with amusing juxtapositions of the aforementioned situation
    4. Re:Already happened by HairyNevus · · Score: 3, Informative

      http://elbitz.net/home.php is good, but they only open up registering every now and then (I remember I waited like 2 months to get my user). In general, though I just use the same popular torrent sites for everything else I get for books, too and I've gotten 6.28GB that way. Also, appear to have just found a .pdf with a huge list of ebook sites (and one for how to swear in all languages!). Haven't tried any of them, but go for it:
      O'Reilly online http://www.oreilly.com/openbook/ | http://sysadmin.oreilly.com/ Computer books and manuals http://www.hoganbooks.com/freebook/webbooks.html | http://www.informit.com/itlibrary/ | http://www.fore.com/support/manuals/home/home.htm | http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/webbuy/freebooks.html The Network Book http://www.cs.columbia.edu/netbook/ Some #bookwarez.efnet.irc links http://www.extrema.net/books/links.shtml Some #bookwarez.efnet.irc fiction http://194.58.154.90:4431/enscifi/ Pimpas online books (Indonesia) http://202.159.16.55/~pimpa2000 | http://202.159.15.46/~om-pimpa/buku Security, privacy and cryptography http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~rivest/crypto-security.html | http://www.oberlin.edu/~brchkind/cyphernomicon/ My own misc online reading material http://www.eastcoastfx.com/docs/admin-guides/ | http://www.eastcoastfx.com/~jorn/reading/ Computer books http://solaris.inorg.chem.msu.ru/cs-books/ | http://sweetrude.net/~cab/books/ | http://alaska.mine.nu/books/ | http://poprocks.dyn.ns.ca/dave/books/ | http://58-160.skarland.uaf.edu/books/ | http://202.186.247.194/~ebook/ | http://hooligans.org/reference/ Linux documentation http://www.linuxdoc.org/docs.html FreeBSD documentation http://www.freebsd.org/tutorials/ Sun documentation http://osiris.imw.tu-clausthal.de:8888/ | http://uran.vvsu.ru:8888/ SGI documentation http://newton.unicc.chalmers.se/ebt-bin/nph-dweb/dynaweb;td=2 | http://techpubs.sgi.com/library/tpl/cgi-bin/init.cgi IBM Online Redbooks http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/ Digital Unix documentation http://www.unix.digital.com/faqs/publications/base_doc/DOCUMENTATION/V40D_HTML/V40D_HTML/LIBRARY.HTM Filesystem Hierarchy Standard http://www.pathname.com/fhs/2.0/fhs-toc.html | http://www.linuxbase.com/ UNIX stuff http://ww

      --
      You were critically hit for no damage. The bruise will look nice, and maybe the scars will make good party talk.
    5. Re:Already happened by Jurily · · Score: 2, Funny

      Also, appear to have just found a .pdf with a huge list of ebook sites (and one for how to swear in all languages!). Haven't tried any of them, but go for it:

      Hey, I found this cool Linux ISO:

      Read the rest of this comment (2111870976 more bytes)...

    6. Re:Already happened by Cheesetrap · · Score: 2, Funny

      if you can dig up anyone that was born in Colonial America

      That sounds like a wager! *grabs shovel* :D

  2. More on the "iPod for books" by langelgjm · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The relevant part of my journal entry follows:

    Now to other thoughts. I can sum these up simply: the DX is an iPod for books.

    Think carefully about what that means. What are most people's iPods filled with? We'll not kid ourselves: pirated music. Of course pirated books and texts have been on the Internet for years, long before the MP3 reached its zenith. But just as the iPod made listening to those MP3s simple and enjoyable, to really enjoy a pirated book, you'll need an e-book reader, unless you want to read on the computer or print it out. Now, even e-book readers have been around a while; however, there are a variety of formats, and conversion between them is not always simple. PDF, on the other hand, is an extremely common and widely used format. This means that one could load up their DX with hundreds of pirated PDF books, all in one portable, simple to use package.

    I won't be bold enough to call this a prediction, but rather a possibility: with the increasing adoption of e-book readers, particularly those capable of reading PDFs, we might witness digital book piracy on a much wider scale than before. I doubt it will ever reach the levels of music piracy, since books require a much larger investment of time to digest, but I do think it will increase markedly. The interesting thing about this is that while music piracy seems to cluster around recent and highly popular works, I don't think this will be as much the case with book piracy. Don't get me wrong; you can find all of J. K. Rowling's or Stephanie Meyer's works on The Pirate Bay, but you can also find the works of Isaac Asimov and Ayn Rand. Slightly older books such as the latter, despite not being classics of all time, still elicit continued interest. So, when book piracy increases, sure, we'll see this year's bestsellers being shared, but we'll also see a lot more books published between 1923 and 1980 being shared than we see music from that time. This also means that we'll see a lot of books that, while still under copyright, were written by authors who are now dead. And if the copyright debate turns toward digital book piracy with even partially the same furor it has over music piracy, it's going to be a lot harder to convince people to feel bad about violating the copyrights of dead authors.

    If there are any Star Trek fans reading this, you'll recall the PADD - an e-book like device ubiquitous enough to be carried in stacks, lent to friends, and forgotten carelessly. The DX is the first step in that direction. Like all consumer electronics, the price will drop eventually (remember how expensive the first VCRs and DVD players were?). And the idea of having free, wireless access anywhere in the U.S. to a sizable library of public domain works at Project Gutenberg is pretty inspiring. Imagine expanding that idea so that anyone with an e-book reader had access to a universal library of books. It'll be possible... let's hope that copyright doesn't stand in the way.

    --
    "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    1. Re:More on the "iPod for books" by PaintyThePirate · · Score: 4, Interesting

      On the other hand, a well stocked digital library that functions like Netflix or like a physical library with a reasonable monthly fee could nip mainstream e-book piracy in the bud.

      This isn't quite like Rhapsody or Zune Pass or similar music subscription schemes where you would end up with an annoying pile of encrypted data when your subscription runs out or the company folds. Well, it is, but most people are content with checking out a book once, reading it, and checking it back in.

      Of course, something like this could only be possible with DRM and e-book reader support for that DRM, which despite what you hear on Slashdot, can be useful when implemented properly.

    2. Re:More on the "iPod for books" by russ1337 · · Score: 3, Informative

      GP is referring to the Netflix streaming service, not the DVD delivery service.

    3. Re:More on the "iPod for books" by russ1337 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      On the other hand, a well stocked digital library that functions like Netflix or like a physical library with a reasonable monthly fee could nip mainstream e-book piracy in the bud.

      The publishers have a massive opportunity here, like you say, to nip piracy in the bud before it takes off. They'd need to partner with the leading e-book distributors (such as amazon) quickly, and grow that market share soon otherwise, napsterizing will occur simply due to the convenience.

      Unfortunately the publishers want us to continue to follow their business model of purchasing hard books, and are reluctant to change their business model to suit the customers needs.

      Also, the publishers are so fragmented, they'd never agree collectively agree on how to implement a new business model.

    4. Re:More on the "iPod for books" by Fozzyuw · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What are most people's iPods filled with? We'll not kid ourselves: pirated music.

      The only person you're kidding is yourself. My iPod is 100% legit music. And yes, I'm more than tech. savoy enough to find everything I want for free. I'm willing to bet out side of one small demographic, most people's MP3 players are filled with legit music as well. You're making the same assumptions that record companies make. Congratulations.

      --
      "The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became truth." ~1984 George Orwell
    5. Re:More on the "iPod for books" by Hatta · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If there are any Star Trek fans reading this, you'll recall the PADD - an e-book like device ubiquitous enough to be carried in stacks

      Unfortunately, they only carry one document at a time. Otherwise there would be no reason to stack them.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    6. Re:More on the "iPod for books" by vegiVamp · · Score: 3, Funny

      The analogy didn't have cars, there's your problem.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    7. Re:More on the "iPod for books" by cjsm · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My mp3 player is almost totally ripped from my CD collection. A handful of tracks which were given to me by my brother might be downloaded. In the past couple of years I've probably bought over 50 pop/rock CDs and over 100 classical CDS. I'm not interested in downloading illegally.

      --
      This ad space for rent.
    8. Re:More on the "iPod for books" by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree.

      step 1- Ebooks need to be 1/2 price of the printed book OR LESS. sorry but they simply have rampant greed going on in the ebook arena. I am not going to buy your latest ebook if it costs as much as the fricking hardcover.

      So if they want to nip this in the bud, tell the freaking publishers to stop being greedy assholes and reduce the MSRP on all books and pull in their profit margins to that of a printed book. it is NOT cheap to print a book, pass that fricking savings on to the reader.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    9. Re:More on the "iPod for books" by cerberusss · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The relevant part of my journal entry follows:

      Now to other thoughts. I can sum these up simply: the DX is an iPod for books.

      Think carefully about what that means. [...] PDF, on the other hand, is an extremely common and widely used format. This means that one could load up their DX with hundreds of pirated PDF books, all in one portable, simple to use package.

      My first question is: have you ever tried to read a file in PDF format as an e-book?

      You have an awful lot of opinion on something which I guess you have not tried.

      PDF as a format for an e-book reader is a very bad format. The e-book reader cannot nicely fill out the screen with text; the point of a PDF is that the markup is page-perfect. Thus you are constantly either centering the page if the zoom is correct. If the zoom is not sufficient for your e-book reader, then you are even moving the page for every line you read.

      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
    10. Re:More on the "iPod for books" by BrokenHalo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Over time, I suspect physical books will inevitably be moving back to their original social place as cultural collectibles or luxury items.

      That might be true if publishers and sellers could come up with some sort of agreement that doesn't unnecessarily lock out large sections of the world's population. For instance, I can buy dead-tree copies of most books from Amazon. But if I attempt to buy an electronic copy of the same book (from Australia), I usually hit a brick wall.

      This is clearly stupid.

    11. Re:More on the "iPod for books" by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I agree.

      step 1- Ebooks need to be 1/2 price of the printed book OR LESS. sorry but they simply have rampant greed going on in the ebook arena. I am not going to buy your latest ebook if it costs as much as the fricking hardcover.

      So if they want to nip this in the bud, tell the freaking publishers to stop being greedy assholes and reduce the MSRP on all books and pull in their profit margins to that of a printed book. it is NOT cheap to print a book, pass that fricking savings on to the reader.

      There was a story here a couple of weeks back that detailed why various book formats cost what they did, and how that related to physical print costs - producing a hardback copy is not significantly more than a paperback, but the extra cost you pay is for the early access, not the format.

      That doesn't change with an ebook - if you want it now, then you pay for that desire. If you want it later on, then you can wait and save.

  3. Not for a while by schnikies79 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When MP3's got big, they could be burned and listened to on any cd player or computer. Later MP3 playes got cheap. E-books can be viewed on any computer and most phones, but it sucks. There are no dirt-cheap readers out yet.

    I've tried them onmy iphone, my netbook, my desktop and a palm. Each and every one suck equally when reading. Changing the contrast, brightness, it doesn't matter.

    --
    Gone!
    1. Re:Not for a while by tabrnaker · · Score: 2, Informative

      Try them on an N800 with fbreader. the pixel density on the 800x480 screen makes it quite enjoyable. Not for pdf's though

    2. Re:Not for a while by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think that's the wrong way around - the reason we haven't seen more widespread piracy of books is because they're difficult to pirate. You have to scan them in. That's a huge pain.

      With more books being sold in a digital format, we'll see more piracy. Then it will increase again when there are good e-book readers.

      There wasn't a lot of music piracy before CDs delivered nice, easily copied digital music and the Internet provided a way to share it. Napster started up in 1999. There were very few mp3 players around then, but lots of people downloaded mp3s to listen to on their computers or burn to CD.

    3. Re:Not for a while by gmuslera · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Technology is converging to giving us better reading devices, not specially for ebooks, but for amount of information need to be read anyway. Before LCDs popularized reading in CRT really sucked. Palms, big screen cellphones, notebooks, LCDs improved on that. Ebook readers, good screen resolution cellphones, netbooks and tablets, even the XO are the newest improvement in that direction. Where you draw the line? Probably depend on how much you want to read that, but for a lot the tech is already here.

    4. Re:Not for a while by Mozk · · Score: 2, Informative

      Many style guides recommend using apostrophes in plurals of acronyms and initialisms. It makes them easier to read, as you can tell whether the s is part of the acronym.

      --
      No existe.
  4. short answer: no by plasmacutter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Recent reports of pilot programs with the kindle show the fundamental difference between the way people experience movies and music and how they experience books.

    There is no tangible difference between a downloaded song/vid and one which is on dvd, tv, or radio.

    This is VERY different from how books are experienced.

    Reading text on a video screen is very taxing on the eyes. Additionally, and especially in the case of textbooks, interaction with the paper media is something which is important to readers. While its very logical in the case of texts with the capacity to scrawl notes in margins, highlight passages, and tape stickies to pages, there is also an emotional/comfort aspect to the interaction with the paper itself which is simply not there on digital versions.

    Despite being a heavy tech head I will still print out any extended text to dead tree media because it's simply more comfortable and convenient to access in that manner.

    While I'm about a generation removed at this point, the pilot programs with current university students show the same attachment.

    I personally would love to see neurological and psychology experts convene a joint study on this to determine exactly why this is the case.

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    1. Re:short answer: no by mysidia · · Score: 2, Interesting

      When dealing with physical books it's almost inconceivable that you mishandle the book and accidentally "turn the page". When using an e-book reader it's very easy to accidentally push a button and lose your place. Or maybe there's a fear the device dies on you while reading.

      E-book readers are $300 or $400 device you have to get to to read electronic books, why do that, when they can buy real physical ones at the bookstore for relatively little expense? If the book is for educational purposes, you will want it physical for easy access, and the ability to scribble free-form notes (typing is too cumbersome/inconvenient for such notes)

      For entertainment purposes, it's almost inconceivable that you read more than one book at once... so what's the benefit in having a device that lets you store multiple books? To boot, the DRM-laden electronic books are almost just as expensive as the physical ones, and you can't lend them to friends. To boot, you can't place them on a photocopier and make copies of particularly interesting sections to use in a paper, personal momento, etc. You can do less with the e-books than you can physical ones.

      I think there's a stronger feeling of ownership and control over a printed book. as if the text belongs to you, and reading is a very tactile experience, where you are involved.

      Versus Music, DVDs, where you are basically a passive listener, just enjoying the sounds and images the machine is making.

      You can rip a page if you don't like it, you can doggy ear, or bookmark pages with significance to you.

      The book is on your shelf, it's more secure that way, you can always get to it whenever you want. Your dead tree book can't fail you, the batteries cannot die. No one really wants to steal it, and it's easily replaced, you can take it in public without fear.

      It's easy to lend to friends.. just hand them the book.

      You get two pages of text side-by-side. Typical e-book readers just provide you one continuous page, so the experience is completely different.

    2. Re:short answer: no by commodore64_love · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >>>Reading text on a video screen is very taxing on the eyes.

      I thought the Kindle was supposed to mimic the look of paper? Doesn't it use electronic ink? (shrug). Maybe I'm thinking of some other e-book reader.

      Personally I don't care where I read stuff. I read most of Asimov and Heinlein's work when I was a teenager on my Commodore 64 and a TV screen (i.e. blue colored and slightly blurry). I read Harry Potter on a laser printout that was shrunk to 9 pages per page. My coworkers said, "How can you read that?" but it didn't bother me. And of course I've read downloaded stuff on a modern PC during my lunchbreak. None of these mediums have stood in the way of me enjoying the book.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    3. Re:short answer: no by vlm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Reading text on a video screen is very taxing on the eyes. Additionally, and especially in the case of textbooks, interaction with the paper media is something which is important to readers. While its very logical in the case of texts with the capacity to scrawl notes in margins, highlight passages, and tape stickies to pages, there is also an emotional/comfort aspect to the interaction with the paper itself which is simply not there on digital versions.

      Such an old, tired slashdot meme.

      Netcraft confirms, in soviet russia, with natalie portman, MP3s will never become popular because they don't have paper media artistic covers and special liner notes to interact with, and needless to say they are very taxing to listen to because they don't have that "vacuum tube" sound. Also all music listeners interact with their paper media, just like ALL readers scrawl in their books.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    4. Re:short answer: no by Logic+and+Reason · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When dealing with physical books it's almost inconceivable that you mishandle the book and accidentally "turn the page".

      Really? You've never dropped a book and lost your place? Or been reading a new textbook with a stiff spine and had the pages turn on their own? Or been reading a book outside on a windy day?

      When using an e-book reader it's very easy to accidentally push a button and lose your place.

      I don't know if existing e-book readers do this, but it should be very easy to implement a place-saving feature. On the iPhone, for example, most apps will save their state when you press the Home button, so you can re-launch the app and pick up exactly where you left off.

      E-book readers are $300 or $400 device you have to get to to read electronic books, why do that, when they can buy real physical ones at the bookstore for relatively little expense?

      But they won't always be so expensive. What happens when the reader is cheaper than a single new book? (See the Nintendo DS.)

      For entertainment purposes, it's almost inconceivable that you read more than one book at once... so what's the benefit in having a device that lets you store multiple books?

      Maybe not simultaneously, but I am currently in the middle of three or four books that I'm reading for entertainment or learning. It would be nice to be able to take those with me on trips without having to devote the space for multiple books.

      To boot, the DRM-laden electronic books are almost just as expensive as the physical ones, and you can't lend them to friends. To boot, you can't place them on a photocopier and make copies of particularly interesting sections to use in a paper, personal momento, etc. You can do less with the e-books than you can physical ones.

      Hence the book piracy.

      I think there's a stronger feeling of ownership and control over a printed book. as if the text belongs to you, and reading is a very tactile experience, where you are involved.

      It's certainly true that you have a greater sense of ownership with a physical book. But then, you never really owned the text in the first place due to copyright.

      You can rip a page if you don't like it, you can doggy ear, or bookmark pages with significance to you.

      I've never felt the desire to rip a page out of a book. And don't most e-book readers provide bookmarking functionality superior to doggy-eared pages?

      The book is on your shelf, it's more secure that way, you can always get to it whenever you want. Your dead tree book can't fail you, the batteries cannot die. No one really wants to steal it, and it's easily replaced, you can take it in public without fear.

      But it can get flooded or burned or torn or peed on or lost... An e-book reader is also susceptible to many of these things, but you can just keep a copy of your books on your PC (which you also back up, right?). And the theft and replacement issues will all but disappear as readers get cheaper.

      It's easy to lend to friends.. just hand them the book.

      It's even easier to email or IM them a small .rar file or a link (depending on how often you see them in person, I guess).

      You get two pages of text side-by-side. Typical e-book readers just provide you one continuous page, so the experience is completely different.

      It's different, but is it significantly better? How advantageous is it that you can see two pages at once in a paper book?

    5. Re:short answer: no by cerberusss · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Despite being a heavy tech head I will still print out any extended text to dead tree media because it's simply more comfortable and convenient to access in that manner.

      I print out long texts just to have an excuse to get the hands and eyes off the keyboard/screen. When you're working 12 hours a day behind a screen, this is an absolute necessity for me to avoid getting caught up in RSI.

      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
  5. It isn't really the same thing by damn_registrars · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Music is expected to be portable. You can listen to music while you drive, walk, work, etc. You generally can't read a book while doing any of those things; and for at least the first you are an idiot for even attempting such a feat.

    Sure, electronic books could be pirated, but it seems unlikely that it would be as widespread, as there isn't really the same market for electronic books as there is for electronic music formats.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  6. Textbooks by mcelrath · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Apparently you aren't in an academic environment. You should see the USB sticks full of pdf and djvu textbooks that are being passed around. Convenient reading, maybe not. But search functionality? Hell yeah. Have you seen the indices of most technical (Ph.D. level) textbooks? They're usually shorter than the table of contents. I don't know about you, but I need to be able to search my textbooks. Most of these seem to be coming from library scanning operations in countries more relaxed about copyright, and can be found on some torrent sites if you know what to look for. If publishers were smart, they'd start distributing a CD/USB key with the pdf/djvu of the text as well. There's also a growing movement of free and open textbooks, and "print on demand" services. Authors don't usually make much money from the publishers anyway, and do the writing to further their own career, rather than for cash. So it makes a lot of sense to do free publishing.

    I think in 10 years time, the printed textbook will be an anachronism, and getting paid by a publisher to write your textbook will be too.

    --
    1^2=1; (-1)^2=1; 1^2=(-1)^2; 1=-1; 1=0.
    1. Re:Textbooks by damn_registrars · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Have you seen the indices of most technical (Ph.D. level) textbooks? They're usually shorter than the table of contents. I don't know about you, but I need to be able to search my textbooks.

      I can't tell you how much I had wished my undergraduate science texts had digital copies included for search functions. However I can also tell you that in some classes (organic chemistry in particular) it seemed that the purpose of the class was to memorize the book, so a search function would have been detrimental to that cause. And for that matter how do you enter a benzene ring into a search query?

      Conversely, in my PhD course work we have had almost no textbooks. Generally we use primary literature in those courses instead with only a couple exceptions (ethics, for some reason, had a textbook).

      --
      Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    2. Re:Textbooks by tabrnaker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And for that matter how do you enter a benzene ring into a search query?

      benzene ring

    3. Re:Textbooks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, I agree. And let me throw in my experience (I am a grad student right now).

      First off, I have noticed that Chinese and Indian students have outright pirated paper copies of books. Yup, that's right, full paper softback copies of all the hardback books that are being sold in the university bookstore. They get them from back home in India or China for about $9. That's compared to the hardbacks that push $160 for engineering texts on Amazon, let alone the bookstore.

      Secondly, it is more and more common for students to have PDF copies of textbooks, AND the solutions books that normally are for professor and/or TA use. There is an active "underground" community online of "I will trade you X book for Y and Z book". All in PDF form.

      I registered for a class, and my bookstore was out of the book. They weren't planning to order it for the summer semester. I went online, and the hard copy was $150. Available in 20 (!) days from Amazon. Google books had the textbook online, but huge sections were missing.

      After about 20 minutes of googling, I was able to find the full PDF version of the textbook online. Downloaded 25MB of PDF, and I could start reading the chapters for class. And, as the parent post said, search through it for extremely quick content lookups.

      Yes, I feel bad about getting the book this way, but it was the only way I could get the book immediately! :(

      I ended up not using it much because the Professor's lectures were so thorough, but with the ease of getting PDFs of textbooks online, soon students are not going to be ashamed of downloading text, especially when they will download music illegally for a $1 song, when textbooks are 200 times more expensive (like for some Biology/Chem books).

    4. Re:Textbooks by iammani · · Score: 3, Insightful

      For $DIETY's sake they are NOT pirated copies. Indian and Chinese editions of books are sold cheaper by the publishers themselves.

      Here is an example of such a case... Distributed Operating Systems & Algorithms by Randy Chow costs $98.80 in the US, amazon offers it for $88.92 [1]. While in India I can purchase the same, marked as Indian edition, for Rs. 423 [2], ie, $8.88.

      [1] http://www.amazon.com/Distributed-Operating-Systems-Algorithms-Randy/dp/0201498383
      [2] http://www.flipkart.com/distributed-operating-systems-algorithm-analysis/8131728595-tu23fw2bbb

    5. Re:Textbooks by spasm · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Authors don't usually make much money from the publishers anyway, and do the writing to further their own career, rather than for cash.

      I can definitely add an 'amen' to this. As a newly-minted phd in a field in which book publication is a normal part of achieving tenure, here's how it works (in the US anyway; other countries vary slightly): you get your first academic job. In 4-6 years you go up for tenure review, at which time you've either met publication requirements for tenure at your institution (varies widely, but "two articles and a book" is pretty common at a teaching-oriented institution), in which case you get tenure and a $10-20k salary bump. Or you didn't meet tenure and you get fired. So the pressure to publish is, shall we say, quite high. Because it's assumed your book will be an academic book, and as such probably only of interest to other scholars in your sub-field, tenure committees pay absolutely no attention to book sales. A book on the role of the western crop weevil on the Tongan famine of 1832 which sold 1000 copies (mostly to academic libraries) 'counts' just as much toward tenure as a book on the contemporary opium trade in Afghanistan which, being of interest to policy makers and journalists as well as academics, might sell 10,000 copies. In either case, royalties for academic books are negligible - you'd be lucky to make a couple of thousand on any book, even a reasonably well respected one. However, as I mentioned, getting published does have a large financial impact in that it contributes significantly toward getting tenure and other steps up the academic career path. In short, getting a book published is potentially worth tens of thousands of dollars to you, but with almost zero connection between this fiscal impact and the number of copies sold.

      From my point of view as an academic writer, I want the ideas expressed in my articles and books to be available to anyone who is interested in them - having those books or articles cost money does not significantly benefit me, and actually blocks access to my ideas. Given that the cheapest way to make work available to everyone is to put it on the web, the only motivation I still have to go through a publisher is this publication process (and the peer review which goes with it) is necessary for my work to 'count' to tenure committees and the like.

  7. One fundamental point ... by charlie · · Score: 4, Informative

    One fundamental point that tends to get overlooked is that unlike CDs or cassette tapes before them, books traditionally came with built-in DRM, insofar as copying them (via scan/OCR/proofread) was a really tedious process. Whereas it's relatively easy to crack the DRM on, for example, MobiPocket or Microsoft Reader books (and probably ePub by now). So the DRM'd formats are easier to pirate than the previous "analog"-analog format. What this portends for the future remains to be seen, but wearing my full-time novelist hat, I'm a bit worried. The music industry has efficiently trained people to grab files without throwing money at the artists, by bringing the role of publishers into disrepute. Now we're all set to repeat the experience, and unlike a rock band, most authors don't perform well on stage.

    1. Re:One fundamental point ... by Reziac · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's still an economy driven by free samples. If I can download the free sample, that's easier than if I have to go to the library to get it; both also lend themselves to random discoveries. But both books and music are too pricey for most folks to buy a pig in a poke. You must understand this yourself, since you've got plenty of "free samples" up on your own website... without which I'd probably never have read your stuff. Now I might, and if I like it, you might make money from me in the future.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    2. Re:One fundamental point ... by tabrnaker · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Or this could work out in your favor (and the environments no more dead books!). What if we completely cut out the publishers? Set up your own author's webpage with your works on them. All author's pages catalogued on servers, could even be a decentralized server to cut out more middle men. Have your works freely downloadable or for a nominal fee (say the amount you get paid per book by your current publisher). Have a micro-payment system so that individuals can easily pay you small amounts, whether for the book or as a donation. Perhaps even be totally open about your expenses and have a running total of donations vs amount needed to survive/publish the next book in your series.
      I think this might be a better system than the current one because there's a bunch of crap out there and once you buy the book you can't do anything about it. Here, you would be supported by people who genuinely appreciate your books and not simply by how many fools your publisher can convince to buy your book.
      If the system was wide-spread, there could even be deals made with instant book printers, and people would still be paying less than they are currently.

    3. Re:One fundamental point ... by slaingod · · Score: 2, Informative

      It takes about an hour of actual effort from paperback to the proofing stage (ie. reading the thing on your PDA to clean up the couple of dozen errors).

      2 min 1) Use a paper cutter to cut the book up
      2 min 2) Send it thru a duplex auto feed scanner (got mine for $300 on ebay...before that I used a single side ADF that took a little more effort (like 5 more minutes).
      1 min 3) Assign a reading block to exclude the page numbers and page header and load it for all pages.
      3 min 4) Quickly scan thru all pages to make sure the reading blocks look good (can do it in like 1-2 minutes for 300 page book rapidly paging down). Otherwise adjust.
      0 min 5) Start the OCR process and wait til it is done.
      30 min 6) Scan thru all of the pages looking for obvious OCR problems and the highlighted 'unsure' words.
      5 min 7) Go thru and look for hyphenated words that need to have them removed.
      1 min 8) Export to Word/HTML/Whatever you feel comfortable with.
      15 min 9) Recreate the ToC, and run some specialized spellchecking (only looks for words that aren't used repeatedly to deal with proper nouns or uncommon subject matter), and run script to join page breaks.

      Start reading and highlight any formatting errors for later correction.

      I'm not saying it isn't tedious, but it isn't 'really tedious' with the proper tools. An hour spent before you spend 6-10 hours reading.

      --
      http://blog.slaingod.com
  8. Probably by mobby_6kl · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I was into reading ebooks on my PDA before it got popular.

    Reading from smaller backlit screens is certainly not be for everyone, although I liked the form factor and the fact that I didn't need to rely on external light. For almost everyone else though, the new e-ink readers should fix most of the problems such as small screen size limited resolution by making the screen look just like paper.* If the devices aren't quite there yet, I think they will be soon enough, it's just a matter of making small improvements to the existing technology. Then there would be little preventing people from just grabbing some books off emule, unless the devices are completely locked down with unbreakable DRM to disallow anything not digitally signed.

    I actually also wrote a short-ish essay on this topic for one of my classes years ago. It wasn't too detailed as it wasn't a business or economics analysis, but it clearly showed that getting a cheapo Palm device and then just warezing the books made sense financially if the reader could either tolerate the reading method or actually preferred it. As I recall, I also made some comparisons between book vs album prices and mp3 player vs PDAs, assuming a desktop PC with internet connection was a fixed cost. The conclusion, I think, was that pirating books is going to be viable on a larger scale in the near future assuming even more suitable devices appear at a reasonable price.

    The only problem for now is that these e-ink devices are pretty expensive. While various PDAs were also not too cheap, they were very versatile, so for instance I used mine mainly to keep track of all tasks, assignments, meetings, and other organizational stuff, then play some Worms or Quake on it, then check my mail or browse the web. As far as I know, the Kindle just has a broken web browser and an mp3 player. I don't think this is going to be a long term problem though, the technology is still pretty young and therefore expensive.

    *- Preemptively acknowledging the few nuts who would just love to rant here about how anything that doesn't feel like dead trees or involve physically turning the pages is unusable

  9. Not As Widespread by ffejie · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I don't think this will be nearly as widespread as music pirating. The reason is because with music, the medium changed, but the experience didn't change for enjoying it. Years ago, before iPods were really popular, and MP3s were still being pirated widely, people would routinely burn CDs and listen to them on their CD players, portable or otherwise. Once the iPod revolution came about, people actually started taking their CDs and moving them to MP3s, to listen to them on their MP3 device. Put another way, there was an easy translation ability from the new way to the old way.

    Books, on the other hand, for the next 10 years (at least) will still predominantly be read on actual paper and not on e-books. Further, people can't take an e-book illegally downloaded and turn it into a real paper book, like you could with CDs. Until ebooks can recreate the experience of flipping pages, and bookmarking a physical part of the book, they probably will never get people to completely switch. The physical part of a book is an important experience. The physical part of music (swapping disks, repairing scratches, rewinding tapes) is nothing more than a hassle.

    --
    Disagreeing with me does not mean you get to mod me troll.
  10. Get it by poptones · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I write too. Are you paid by a publisher? If so, you're polishing the handrails on the titanic - just like those old school rock stars and wannabe rock stars.

    What most creative types don't seem to get is there's no reason for them to exist. There's so muc recorded music already if there were no more new artists we'd still have mroe music available than any of us can listen to in a lifetime. Same thing with books.

    Artists communicate. Your job is to communicate. The enemy of an artist is not piracy, it's obscurity. Publishers are your enemy, not your enabler. People do not buy shit from publishers because they want to they do it because they formerly HAD to - publishers created an artificial scarcity by keeping most artists in obscurity. Once you have someone who CHOOSES to listen to you - and that's how virtually all art works - they will "support" you to the best of their ability. Fans want to be connected to their artists - this is where publishers seek to interject themselves in order to extract value.

    If you're a creative type still thinking in terms of a publisher, you're screwed. Give the people who appreciate you what they want, and they'll support you - it's that simple.

    My house burned down about a year ago. I lost everything. I now have a stack of old BYTE magazines and a copy of the Scelbi/BYTE primer sitting on my shelf. It's not because there's "information" in them - the "information" was obsolete two decades ago. It's because there's creative content in them I can't find elsewhere and I love having this "souvenir" of my youth. Among the things I miss most are my EPs of "Holland Tunnel Dive" and the Detroit band "Shock Therapy." Why? I can download the content, but they don't have the value to me of the records. It has nothign to do with content and everything to do with being something tangible. However, if I had never heard either of these bands those now destroyed records would mean nothing to me - get it?

  11. Just like music? by OpenSourced · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Bet for more. More pirated than music, I'd say.

    I bought a small cheap reader, a Cybook. The thing is far from perfect. The screen is worse than others that I've seen, there are no tree structure in the library, and it hangs about once in ten boots. But it's still a wonder. It's thin, light and you can have a thousand books there. I'm now addicted to the thing. Read mostly novels there, no PDF stuff.

    Then my brother lent me an SF book from Poul Anderson. Heavy stuff, and I don't mean the plot. The book was heavy, more than seven hundred pages of thick paper. The thing bent my hands down when reading in bed. So I reasoned that the text might be online. Went to the net, found it, downloaded it and presto! it was in the eBook reader. The pleasure of reading was back.

    Books are much more pirateable than music, because they are much lighter. You can put ten books in a song. A couple of Gigabytes of books is enough for a lifetime, and you can transfer them in few hours. I have read these ideas of books being an object of love and desire in themselves, and I even thought I was in that camp, till I found out how fast I ditched them paper books. No regrets, no looking back. If I ever miss the sweet smell of paper I can crush a torn page under my nose while reading the odorless ebooks. I just need a better reader and paper books are history for me. And I'd say that also goes for the most of the rest of the world, at least the part that reads anyway. I have to pry my reader from the hands of everybody whom I lent it, for reading something only available online, for example.

    Put a good-enough reader out (and no, the Kindle is not yet it), and you can start re-defining best-sellers the platinum disc way. Books will be leaked before they are printed, and almost nobody will make a living writing. Well, that last part is mostly true nowadays too, so perhaps nothing will change that much. But the pirating of books, by being ten times easier to pirate than music, and a thousand times easier than films; and providing a best overall experience IMHO, will be incredible. And now, with the Kindle and others, you'll begin to get better quality from the pirated ebooks. Now is mostly OCR, but soon will be mostly well-corrected for-purchase ebooks, unprotected after buying, and released to the wild masses.

    Books napsterized? They'll make Napster look like a joke.

    I'd say sell publishing companies' stock and shelve those plans of richness and fame by becoming a best-seller author. Ah! and welcome to the Data Century.

    --
    Rome taught me patience and assiduous application to detail. Virtues which temper the boldness of great, general views.
  12. Inconceivable by pitterpatter · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't think that word means what you think it means.

    When dealing with physical books it's almost inconceivable that you mishandle the book and accidentally "turn the page".

    My experience with physical books has been that if you take your hands off the book or drop it, it turns its own pages.

    the ability to scribble free-form notes (typing is too cumbersome/inconvenient for such notes)

    I would much rather type than scribble, if for no other reason than that I would like to be able later to read what I wrote.

    ...so what's the benefit in having a device that lets you store multiple books?

    How about to take on an extended trip on which you would have time to read four or five or more books. Also, I'm inevitably reading more than one book at a time for entertainment purposes, so to me it's almost inconceivable to have only one book going at a time.

    You can rip a page if you don't like it

    Seriously? I - I - I - don't quite know what to say. How would you remember the precise details of what you didn't like? How would you stir up the embers of your indignation? How would you lend it to a friend after it's been modified that way?

    I agree with the rest of your post, especially the part about the dead tree book being unable to fail you. Of particular importance to me is the concept that no one can modify it without your knowing about the modification.

  13. One reason why book piracy hasn't taken off... by jim_v2000 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There are these places called "libraries". They have books there, and you can read them for free. You can even take them home with you!

    --
    Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
  14. Why not ask the *REAL* questions by Crypto+Gnome · · Score: 3, Insightful
    NYTimes are running an article about the outcomes of the new wave of eBook readers.

    Of course, despite having pretensions of being "a quality newspaper" with "real journalistic integrity" they're too scared to ask the real questions:

    Like, for example, "Will the book and print media industry learn from the mistakes of the Music and Film Industries as new digital technologies (in this case, pervasive and cheap eBook readers) are embraced by the public".

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

    .... a *large* percentage of piracy is due to the *ludicrously insane* policies of the distribution businesses (not all of it , some people genuinely believe its 'free', and some will 'pirate' because they can and believe they won't get caught)
    • can't get that movie in (some foreign country) until at least 6 months after its been released in the US (for gods sake, WHY? - do they *REALLY* believe Americans will stop watching it once some other country can?)
    • can't get that CD, EVER (sorry, that's the "made in amsterdam" release, it has two additional tracks and will *never* be released in America) {again for the love of all things bright and shiny, WHY?} (and no I'm not talking about content bumping up against American Anti-obscenity laws or something like that, just plain old crap-for-brains distribution policies)
    • the "electronic" version of that book costs *more than* the first-run hardcover, leather-bound-and-gilded-writing version, signed by the author (WHY? you hand the hardcopy to an eTailer and LET THEM DO ALL THE WORK, WHY are YOUR charges per sale to the eTailer SO INSANELY HIGH?)
    • I refuse to release this into *that brand eTailer* (even though they are the BIGGEST and MOST POPULAR eTailer in existence), you have to buy MY Hardware, and shop in MY eStore, to get this content (apparently they think that after buying twelve different digital gizmos *and a large backback to carry them all in* we still have money left to buy content)
    • And did I forget to mention that MY hardware will NEVER support Your Preferred Operating System (NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER, SCREW YOU, CONSUMER)
    • it's NOT ENOUGH that I charge you, the end customer like a wounded bull (Elephant, that is) for content, but I SCREAM to the highest heavens that "the INTERNET is STEALING FROM ME" (and by that I mean the ISPs themselves) and claim that THEY TOO owe me BAZILLIONS OF DOLLAAAAAZ (mwuhahahahahaha)
    • Oh Yeah, and last but not least, I Want My Cake And I Want To Eat it Too (canada 'piracy tax', and other insanities)

    The modern "content distribution industries" (MPAA, RIAA, screw-everybody-AA) are destroying their industries, and claiming that rampant copyright violations are hurting 'the poor starving musicians".

    I *used to* spend a fair chunk of $ on "content", now I spend relatively little - but I'm not 'pirating' either. I Just Don't Buy Their Crap Anymore.

    If I *really* wanted to be repeatedly beaten with a baseball bat with large nails stuck in it, and pay for the privilege ... well there's "special clubs" for that ;-)

    --
    Visit CryptoGnome in his home.