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Microsoft Research Shows Off Multi-Touch Mouse Prototypes
Engadget has snagged some of the details behind a bunch of multi-touch mouse prototypes from Microsoft Research. The prototypes range from the wacky to the extreme, but at least they are thinking outside the mouse trap. "Each one uses a different touch detection method, and at first glance all five seem to fly in the face of regular ergonomics. The craziest two are probably "Arty," which has two articulated arms to cradle your thumb and index finger, with each pad housing its own optical sensor for mission-critical pinching gestures, and "Side Mouse" which is button free and actually detects finger touches in the table immediately in front of the palm rest. Of course, there's plenty of crazy in the FTIR, Orb Mouse and Cap Mouse (pictured), which rely on an internal camera, orb-housed IR camera and capacitive detection, respectively. Of course, there's no word on when these might actually see the light of day"
...to try and reinvent the wheel.
The game they demo the second mouse with in the video appears to be cube. I suppose they used it because they had access to the source code and could modify it for multitouch interaction.
Frankly multi-touch is really needed to help modernize the mouse. As somebody who uses a Macbook Pro at work I can honestly say it is the first trackpad I have ever used that doesn't make me not long for a mouse. In fact I would say with the exception of gaming I actually prefer the trackpad and its many gestures. The amount of things that can be done is both more intuitive and more elegant than simply strapping more buttons on a mouse. Now obviously multi-touch only works well if its implementation is great, so only time will tell. Thankfully it seems many companies are involved in this effort, so we don't have to only rely on MS "innovation"
Is this to make up for those Microsoft SongSmith adverts?
Always proofread carefully to see if you any words out.
Personally, I hold the mouse with my thumb and ring-finger on the sides with my index and middle fingers resting on the buttons. When I'm at home using my Microsoft Intellimouse Optical (not explorer), I use the same grip except that I use the top joint of my thumb to hold the mouse so I twitch the tip of my thumb to hit button 4. (http://www.actionforblindpeople.org.uk/data/images/width590/hand-on-mouse-514.jpg)
I move the mouse with a combination of movements including the use of my ring-finger (holding onto the mouse), my thumb (holding onto the mouse), and, to a lesser extent, my wrist which rests on a gel pad.
Why? Because my fingers are much more dexterous than my wrist and thus it's better for moving around multiple links, playing an FPS, or doing any kind of visual editing.
And yet... they seem to think I want a touchpad on a bump.
Other than moving your fingers closer together or further apart to zoom in or out of various 2D and 3D images - what use is a multi touch mouse? Personally, I don't understand the point.
Microsoft's table technology looks more intriguing to me because unlike a mouse, you can have more than 1 person using it at once.
Well, I guess that a big part of why you hold the mouse as you do is that you are used to that because mice have worked in such a way for a good while. It might be that some other system than that has a bit of a learning curve for us who have used to the current system but - after the curve - is more efficient.
That said... I think those presented systems are now patented very throughly. Aside from Microsoft (which has sold pretty decent mice before, I got to admit) there will not be companies using any of those in decades.
They had such a good idea with the Trackball Explorer - I just cannot understand why they won't produce more. There's a large, passionate community surrounding the TBE, with fan websites, forums and continuing write-in petitions (pleas) to MS.
Market demand usually speaks for itself:
A new-in-box TBE goes for $500+ on ebay - 10x its original retail price; a good refurbished one will go in the $250 range.
I personally have 2, and I will honestly cry when they go out.
I really prefer to feel a response from the mouse (well trackball) and keyboard. I'm sure people'd get used to whatever mouse was available so selection is good.
I do like the ability on the iPhone where I can expand or contract a web browser window with two fingers. I tried it on my Mac's touchpad and it didn't work (maybe I need to enable it). I don't like the lack of response, or at times too light a touch of the keyboard aspect of the iPhone. It's so light that I'll double enter letters and it's hard to tell if I have the right character unless I'm looking right at the text. Since there's no tactile feel, I can't touch type which means I have to look at the keyboard to make sure I'm in the right place and look at the input field to make sure I'm typing in what I want to type.
Interesting ideas though. The pinch one might be cool for porn :)
[John]
Shit better not happen!
How I hold my mouse is kind of personal don't you think? ;)
Modernize the mouse maybe - but what about our hands? Every single one of those looked like a carpal tunnel nightmare.
L'esperienza de questa dolce vita (The experience of this sweet life) - Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy
They should bring back a moldable CLIPPY!!! The helpful paperclip animation, but this time you could hold it and play with it, like you would a moldable action figure. It would be so useful, just like the other Clippy was! It would suggest things for me that I didn't even KNOW I wanted to do, and when I told it to go away, it just kept popping up, suggesting things!
http://www.beanleafpress.com
What about a simple, largish, multitouch trackpad instead of a mouse? Ever since I switched to a MacBook I've been wondering about that. I tried a mouse on my MacBook (the unibody thing) a few times but I hardly ever used it at all. The MacBook trackpad ist just too good. Then I've tried to buy an large external trackpad to use with an external keyboard (it makes no sense to wear out a notebook keyboard when you're sitting at your desk) but to no avail.
So, why there isn't a large, USB-connected trackpad to use with a keyboard? These things should be simple and cheap, but try to buy one!
I liked the Orb, because it was the closest to both the Trackball Explorer and a boob.
Burn FAT not OIL
I'm not sure a mouse needs to be "multi-touch", in the same way that I don't think a mouse should respond to voice commands (sorry, Cmdr. Scott....).
Multi-touch makes sense for touch screens or track pads, as it changes them from a "cave-man" interface where the only real choices you have is "grunt" (tap), "grunt-grunt" (double-tap), and "uuuuuuugh!" (drag), into an interface where you have a few more choices (multi-finger drag, pinch, etc.).
The mouse already underwent such a change, when multiple buttons were added. I don't know if trying to map things you do on a flat panel onto things you do to a mouse makes any more sense than trying to make a joystick "multi-touch".
What is wrong with different interfaces having different semantics? I don't expect to drive my car with a touchpad, use a mouse to control my stove, or do word-processing with a steering wheel.
www.eFax.com are spammers
You would think ergonomics might be a consideration when designing some of the new input devices. It looks like the user would need to put their hands, wrist, and fingers in awkward positions to perform specific tasks. What about something that allows for the natural movement and precision of the hand and fingers to control the device?
Or anybody with missing digits? A basic mouse can pretty much be used with one finger (not counting the thumb for grip). People with severed digits or even just a cast on may find newer applications a bit too hard to use if they require these interfaces.
My only other compliant is that they seem to be ambidextrous. I demand a mouse that discriminates against left handed users so my brother won't steal it.
"Common sense will be the death of us all"
Well change seems inevitable because developers want the same multi-touch apps for all the new phones to work on desktops without redoing the interface. So the PC is going to need multitouch. So either the screen goes multitouch (which it has in some cases), or the input devices do. Since touchscreens have issues with things like smearing and comfort distance, that leaves the interface devices. Multitouch pads have been done, but most people still prefer mice. They're more precise due to the size of the working area, and easier for certain tasks like dragging because of the extra degrees of freedom on the arm/elbow which frees up the fingers for clicking instead of overloading them for both position and input.
Of these candidates, the cap mouse is most likely to win out, followed by the orb mouse, which may see a competing run in the high end. Why? Let's see:
FTIR mouse: This is basically an internal reflecting material like a lightpipe or fiberoptic cable. The problem is it limits the mouse because it requires this kind of material (think the demo uses acrylic), and design such that the camera can always see it. The shape has poor balance, CG, and drag properties, and will probably result in breaking or issues sliding for many people. The restrictions to mouse design will annoy existing manufacturers, unlike say optical sensors, which were just drop in replacements for mouse balls.
Articulated mouse (Arty): Not happening, for a simple reason - people won't want to readjust to left/right click being thumb/forefinger instead of index/middle. It sounds stupid, but believe me it will be a showstopper. Plus the design is a bit fragile, and I'm not sure on the ergonomics of having to extend the finger and thumb like that, seems like an RSI issue waiting to happen.
Side mouse: This has some potential, but it will be plagued by unintentional inputs. Any time you drum your fingers impatiently, drop a pen on the desk, move the camera too close to something sitting on the desk, it will go nuts. It might be useful in cases where you can't build a touchpad into a device, but in most of those cases the device is so small you want to hold it not rest it on a desk anyway, so there'd be no surface for the side mouse to track on.
Now for the showdown between the two serious contenders.
Orb mouse: Really nice input image. Can easily do a variety of applications with it, since there's so much area. Datacenters sometimes use illuminated vein pattern recognition for biometrics, which can be efficiently integrated with this, and it's a better solution than those stupid touchpad fingerprint readers. But for more conventional apps it's got the most area, the best shape to exploit the use of all fingers, and in deference to the mention of clock-based positioning on the Gizmodo article about it, will probably be the easiest for people to extend thinking to. The main showstoppers are cost (not sure) and bulk/shape issues. People may not find the bulgy shape appealing though I suspect it will test well with male audiences.
Cap mouse: Probably going to win, despite the low resolution sensor image. Why? That "$1 gesture recognition" on the video says it all. Not the gesture support part, the $1 part. Cost wise it's probably cheapest, and it seemed to work sufficient for the apps in the demo. It's also just a bolt-on to existing mouse designs. No need to modify the existing shape or ergonomics to accommodate it, which means it's the path of least resistance. If it's also the path of least cost, which given most of the rest need a camera-quality sensor it most likely is, then the winner seems pretty obvious.
Introducing the new Occam Fusion! Now with sqrt(-1) fewer blades!
An ergonomist taught me that one thing you do not want to do is continually hold your button clicking fingers away from the buttons. That kind of static loading on the extensor muscles is really bad. While using a mouse and are not actively clicking, you want the fingers to rest on the buttons without extensor or flexor muscles being used (preferably with an armrest supporting your entire forearm). With these touch sensitive devices you HAVE to use the extensor muscles to keep the fingers away from the device.
Well, I guess that a big part of why you hold the mouse as you do is that you are used to that because mice have worked in such a way for a good while.
No. He said he holds it like this for a very good reason - because when manipulating a mouse using the fingers gives you much finer control than simply using the palm of your hand.
That's why any "improvement" that moves the fingers off the mouse is an inherently worse design. It's not "what he is used to", it's how our bodies are actually built. Within those parameters sure, you can come up with different shapes that seem worse at first but are actually better - as long as the fingers are responsible for controlling mouse movement.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I think for Desktops the design that will win out is keyboards with trackpads, like a laptop keyboard separated from a laptop. Most people would simply use those alone, gamers or people with more need for fine control would attach a traditional mouse for specific uses.
But fewer and fewer people will be using them, since laptop use is dramatically increasing.
Perhaps mice will even go away altogether, replaced by more task specific controls, like game controllers and Wacom tablets for artists.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
how about a mouse shaped like a pair of breasts. It would be a gate way into more interesting things!
Only works with windows 7 but pretty slick...
http://geekswithblogs.net/kobush/archive/2009/03/10/129993.aspx
There are two general classes of mouse posture: finger-based and palm-based. There's also the "claw" one, which people contend the standard finger based posture is a subset of just less optimal for clicking response time. There's a heated contention between them among gamers who take things like this too seriously. Razer designs mice to fit the various styles, which they describe in their ergonomics guide: http://www2.razerzone.com/MouseGuide/html/palmgrip.php
Some people prefer to use the fingers for fine motor control, as you mention. Others prefer to just use a lower sensitivity and arm motion for positioning, freeing up finger control for more buttons. These inventions aren't aiming at a specific ergonomic target, they're adding functionality. If anything, a prevalence of multi-touch support in the future will dictate the common mouse holding posture, and I suspect you may be in for some grumbling about it for the forseeable future as it does not fit your natural tendency.
Your kids will wonder how the hell you can hold a mouse like that and still use it though.
Introducing the new Occam Fusion! Now with sqrt(-1) fewer blades!
These were not the droids I was looking for.
Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
Tactile response is sometimes a god send. I would hate having to look at my mouse to figure out where my hand was. A touch pad makes sense because you aren't moving it so everything stays relatively put. The mouse on the other hand would at least need something to orientate yourself to where things are, but that would kind of destroy the whole point in my mind of using a multi-touch surface.
I'd say that cap mouse was most likely to see commercial production, but I think i'd be happier with a big touch pad addition to a quality keyboard.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
I just realized something. If the "orb" mouse becomes common, it's going to need a tactile indicator for hand alignment. Like the little raised bumps keyboards usually have on the home keys so you can find the default position by feel.
If it doesn't get named the boob mouse after that, I'll eat one.
Introducing the new Occam Fusion! Now with sqrt(-1) fewer blades!
Speaking of using a webcam for HID (human interface device), Red(neck)mond company is late as usual.
Check out this open source game: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bubblepopper/
Full source code provided.
Looking at the "Arty" mouse, I'm pretty confident in saying that at least one of their designers enjoys playing Pikmin - its cross-section looks a lot like a Bulborb.
#DeleteChrome
While these are all interesting concepts, they all look like solutions looking for a problem. All of the multi-touch gestures shown (like scaling a window or image) can be accomplished easily with the scroll wheel. Add in the modifier keys and you've got several more actions on one motion.
I use Blender from time to time, and its policy of one hand on the keyboard and one hand on the mouse works damn well.
The only device I found actually interesting was the last one, the "Arty" mouse (the one shaped like Mickey Mouse). It provides multi-touch functionality while minimally changing the way you move your hand. Only thing I think it needs is somewhere to put the rest of your fingers. (The video shows the person's middle finger held awkwardly in the air.)
What I think would be optimal is basically a multi-touch touchpad. Take it off a laptop, enlarge it, and add multi-touch. That'd make a pretty good interface device.
...could also be used as a telediddonics device. There. I said it.
The eternal struggle of good vs. evil begins within one's self.
Until my entire body is immersed in comfortable gel pods like EVE's universe pilots, I'm sticking with my mouse/keyboard combo!
Sup dawg, I herd you like wasting mod points, se we put a troll in your troll so you can mod while you mod.
I didn't invent this mouse grip technique, but it really helps. The fingers gripping the sides of the mouse(*) should also be in full contact with the mouse pad. That way you can get fine mouse movements just by rolling your gripping fingers left and right. Your gripping fingers are thus anchored by the mousepad and can exert very fine amounts of push on the mouse.
(*) For me these are thumb and pinky, but I suppose you could use thumb and ring finger.
This baby, the Trackman Marble FX, is the gold standard for pointing devices. Four programmable buttons and mousing position that doesn't require you to twist your arm and put your palm on the table. I would gladly use it today, except that if you use a PS2 to USB adapter, the buttons are no longer programmable. Major, major sadness!
On the other hand (no pun intended), I now make good use of a tablet with stylus -- another pointing device that doesn't require the arm-twisting. It takes getting used to, but it's sooo much easier on your arm. Take care of your arms -- don't just start using a mouse with your left hand.
Vaya con huevos, my darling.
I also assume that it wouldn't be necessary to keep your fingers off all the time. A mouse press would simply be an increase in the area in contact with one finger.
As it looks as if this design would be relatively easy to make splashproof and washable, I can see it having an immediate application in hospitals, labs etc.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
I'd prefer a basic two button mouse, but with capacitive surfaces on the two buttons. These could then be mapped to whatever, including gestures. drag up/down on both buttons = zoom, drag up/down right button = scroll, clockwise circle on left button = fast forward media, yadda yadda. Maybe even keep the scroll wheel, I dunno.
If you want a track-pad why not use one? It will double up as a continent mouse mat when you get bored.
Seriously Natal will be finished long before anything else gains mainstream usage. The keyboard is 135 years without change, the monitor just got a bit thinner over 80 years, an so far the mouse has gained a small wheel in 40 years.
Please tell me you don't think it actually COSTS $1.00 ?
It's a name for a type of gesture - like on Palm devices, lots of $1 implementations listed here.
I'm a 2000 man.
I wrote a blog entry about the concept of multi-touch mice vs. multi-touch trackpads.
"I can envision an ecosystem where multi-touch mice being accepted as a low-cost enabling technology that introduces people to Natural User Interfaces without a large investment. Those would be used in addition to or to complement multi-touch displays and larger Surface devices. It would benefit NUI adoption by allowing existing computers to use NUI software. While it would add to the complexity of planning interfaces across a larger variety of hardware capabilities, the potential for mass adoption may be more important."
I just found a new sig.