Slashdot Mirror
HTC Dragging Feet On GPL Source Release For "Hero" Phone
Squiff writes to mention that despite being based on the Open Handset Alliance's Android platform and using several open source components, HTC are effectively refusing to release the source for the GPL parts of their "Hero" Phone code, saying that they are "waiting for their developers to provide it." It has been called an "object of lust," it's beating the iPhone for awards, and it seems to be the first Android phone that really is "the phone to have," to hear some people tell it. It has also just become available in the US after a June release in Europe.
Phone code, citing that they are "waiting for their developers to provide it."
Too bad that doesn't work.
"Yes your honor, I downloaded all of that music, but I emailed the artists asking how I could send them money, and are just waiting on them to license it to me properly!"
Not exactly fitting I know, but still.
Every other closed source shop has to hold off on release of their product until all licensing issues are taken care of (at least if they don't want to be taken to court.) This license is no different.
Dear Sir, I have sent a communication to our head office to have this source code released on the developer website. It will be available soon at developer.htc.com. We will work to release this as soon as possible. Best Regards, HTC Europe Customer Care
However, this isn't really good enough. Let's hope that the combined might of slashdot will be able to sort it out!
HTC is the Sony of mobile phones. Cool features, but crap quality.
If they're not willing to share their (OUR) source, I wouldn't be at all upset if they got the legal bat to the side of their corporate head.
The Hero is nice and all but, like other Android phones, it doesn't have the processing power. The Acer A1 looks like it will be coming with a Qualcomm Snapdragon 1GHz processor and Android 1.6. Now if it would just be carried by someone other than T-Mobile in the states I would be happy.
FTA: Going into the review, we desperately wanted to love this phone, but given the combination of a few poor hardware choices and an OS which outclasses the device it runs on, we can only recommend that you enter at your own risk.
That sounds completely different then my definition of lust.
Got Code?
With a name like "hero", you know it's going to suck.
Gone!
HEY!
HTC has feet! I feel they are "more human", already!
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
...until one of the copyright holders (you know, the ones with standing to sue) send a C&D and threaten to file for an injunction stopping all HTC Hero sales. The source code will be ready for download about 0.2 seconds later.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Wake me up when the iPhone has the same.
Have you ever tried to get the source for the Linux kernel from CheckPoint for their NGX/Splat firewall? They basically told me they don't do that. After some digging they have a very old version of source available but it is very old and not up to date so it is useless. I was trying to get it to help troubleshoot a driver problem.
I am sure someone would come up with it then.
It's actually page 4 with the relevant posts
Report them to the FSF.
I though they only have to provide the source to those they provided the binary? Do they already sell the phone?
iPhone killer?
Where have we heard that before!?!?
Where have you heard that here? I don't see anyone calling the Hero an "iPhone killer". Looks more like an "iPhone competitor".
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
The upcoming Motorola Cliq seems way better than this one, specially (at least to me) because of the keyboard.
We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
HTC knows that random email requests from $random_slashdotter can be safely ignored. Who is it that administers the GPL? The FSF? HTC needs to get a letter from a real lawyer with a known corporate identity. Until then, they will just keep stalling (stalling Stallman? Hahhaa ha ha...)
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
Fail. The point of the GPL is to use copyright to promote freedom until such time as copyright no longer prevents that freedom. Learn your history before commenting in future.
that's because the iphone wasn't killer in the first place.
Slashdot, despite persistent rumors to the contrary, has more than one person commenting on articles. While not scientifically established as fact, it seems likely that those separate entities could have diverging opinion on copyright.
"Say you want iphone to be killer in the first place. There's an app for that."
So I decided to RTFA on the "Object Of Lust" link. Here's the conclusion to the article:
"The Hero represents a valiant effort from HTC -- though unfortunately, the company appears to have bitten off more than its last-generation hardware can chew. If this build of Android were to be loaded atop the guts of a 3GS or Pre, the performance would likely be astounding, but fused with the two-year old architecture of previous devices, it's mostly disappointing. We're not saying this isn't the best build of Android on the market -- we think it is. What we are saying is that this build is a bit too much for a device like the Hero to handle, and that makes for an uneven, sometimes frustrating experience. Going into the review, we desperately wanted to love this phone, but given the combination of a few poor hardware choices and an OS which outclasses the device it runs on, we can only recommend that you enter at your own risk. HTC has an explosive entry in the smartphone category with what its done on the software side... now it just needs the hardware to match."
I think they may be make the Hero out to be a bit more than it really is.
I tried for a month or so to get the latest source for the Linux kernel that Checkpoint distributes with their NGX/Splat product but all I got was statements that they don't do that. After some research and digging on their site I found a very old version that they didn't even know about. Since they do not update it. It is useless. I was trying to help diagnose an issue that I was sure was a driver related problem.
*prod*
*dumps cold water on you*
wake up and smell the roses, you can't build an iPhone killer until you acknowledge what the platform has.
I disagree.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
I've had all three phones - Had the original iPhone for 2 years and it's nice, but the plans (esp for the 3G version) are expensive - $110 USD /month. The Palm Pre I ditched after a month - damn keyboard is sooo tiny - I couldn't type on it, and made lots of more typos than on the IPhone. Palm re only had about 50 apps. /month. HTC battery lasts about 20% less than the original iPhones. I suspect the 3G iPhone has a comparable battery life.
HTC Hero has around 9,000 apps vs Apples 70,000, but the HTC is much more customizable, sounds better, and it significantly cheaper $70 USD
I'v now completely switched to the HTC Hero, and I really like it
So go report them to the FSF, or whoever else you can. If you know of anyone with standing to sue, someone with their code in the kernel, get them to sue.
Sounds like they outsourced their development to a third party. That third party is who agreed to the GPL and who is obligated to release the appropriate source.
All they need do is name that third party and they're off the hook.
Ask for a refund of the phone. You are entitled to a phone that does not have illegally obtained software on it. By failing to comply with the license agreements, the phone is illegal.
My bet for an iPhone killer: N900
And I don't mean it will kill it outright, but it is the poison pill of free software that will start the snowball rolling in the mainstream about what is to be expected of mobile computing in the near future. (my prediction)
(Disclaimer: Fuck Nokia, fuck Finland, Fuck Sweden (just to be on the safe side), Fuck capitalism, Long live Freedom!)
Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
"The point of the GPL is to use copyright to promote freedom until such time as copyright no longer prevents that freedom."
AMY
Norville Barnes, you don't know a thing about that woman! You don't know who she really is! And only a numbskull thinks he knows things about things he knows nothing about!
later
MOSES
"An' only some kind a knucklehead thinks she knows things 'bout things she, uh -- when she don't, uh -- How'd that go?"
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/herokernel/signatures-1.html
You can also go to htc.com and fill out the Contact Us form with the contents of the petition as several people have already done.
More people doing the latter would probably generate more concern at HTC if their customer service department is getting flooded with them.
Since without my code being on it (I'll get to a sneaky one there later though), I don't have any standing.
However, when the criminal laws come out that allow governments to persue copyright issues without the owner paying, this may well change.
Now, how about someone does a SCO.
"I need to look at ALL your code because I've released some GPL code and your product may have it"?
If someone with clout finds out that their IP is being imported without a license, the FBI raids a dock-side warehouse in Los Angeles. Good luck getting their attention for this one. But still, somebody with standing and who cares enough could be filing the paperwork. In this case, because physical goods are involved, there is a pressure point with the manufacturer.
are you trying to build a beowolf cluster of those??
Rather than complaining that HTC is "dragging their feet on GPL source release," one could instead be asserting that HTC is using "unlicensed, pirated software with possible security problems." ....Use the source, Luke.
Crap I don't want?
Wake me up when the iPhone has the same.
Wake me up when the iPhone has one of the above.
I am the lawn!
The Samsung Moment looks promising. It's coming to Sprint on Nov. 1 and has an 800 MHz processor.
Bonch is either a silly troll, or extremely stupid. He seems to think that Slashdot is one guy, or maybe two (him and everyone else). He regularly accuses the Slashdot crowd of hypocrisy without even contemplating the possibility that different subsets of the Slashdot crowd reads and comments different articles, and has wildly varying opinions.
Move along, nothing to see here.
Are you a troll, or are you just extremely stupid?
I am incredibly annoyed at people that RTFA and then post entire paragraphs in hope they get modded "Informative".
IT IS AN ANTI-SOCIAL BEHAVIOR
for many reasons: ,but so many trick us into readng taboo content that it get very very disciminatory against thos of us with moral values.
1. not RTFAing is not lazyness, it's a principle. The parent did put a disclaimer
2. it may spawn an utterly informed thread, a situation to be avoided at all costs.
3. in the same way it may bring to an end a highly speculative thread - that is the very essence of slashdot - just because it does not agree with the so-called "facts".
4. the points 2 and 3 may affect other threads due to people inadvertently read the quote and reproducing it in other posts.
On the other hand we appreciate and encourage your karma-whoring attempt, you will receive your mod points soon :)
Suing for your rights under the license either wins you the GPL code and/or recompense, or it falls down and the validity of an EULA is even more shaky.
Report them to the FSF
The FSF lacks standing to enforce the Linux kernel license. Report them on the kernel list, so that the people who actually own the copyrights on the kernel, and therefore have standing to enforce the license, will see.
(Disclaimer: Fuck Nokia, fuck Finland, Fuck Sweden (just to be on the safe side), Fuck capitalism, Long live Freedom!)
I believe this is the first disclaimer that I've read that's actually changed my mind on the point.
wouldn't be much of a killer app if it did.
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
Yes
I'm posting this as a third party, but I was the one that recommended my friend check out the Hero, so I'm relaying the findings.
As you know, many AT&T users in major metros are having some pretty severe service issues - my friend is one of that group. As a gadget geek like many here, he left Verizon shortly after the iPhone was released since there was no light at the tunnel of disappointing handset releases with Verizon. He had been a happy iPhone user up until shortly after the 3GS launch. Prior to that, he'd had a few issues, but nothing like he's been experiencing as of late.
He tried a Pre for a week on Sprint and was impressed with the quality of service and the OS. WebOS is a really nice OS, but still young and lacking many apps (I have no doubt that this will improve.) The killer for him was battery life.
Today, he walked into the Sprint store, and after almost an hour of test driving the latched-down phone, bought one. Almost an hour later, he called and said he was taking it back. Surprised, I asked why. He said that once outside in direct sunlight, the phone was almost unusable since you could hardly see the screen, even at 100% brightness.
Gripe #2: OS lag. Not as noticeable when swiping through screens and launching apps/browsing, but once you use the dialer it becomes apparent. He said that using the dialer was so bad, that he input several digits twice because he had thought they didn't register. I'm not sure if this phone was running cupcake or donut, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and assume it was cupcake (there are supposedly speed improvements in donut.)
Gripe #3: No proximity sensor or other mechanism for disabling the touchscreen while on a call. How can a company make a touchscreen phone and not include some kind of provision for this?! While on a call, he accidentally ended it with an accidental touch of his cheek. After ~30 seconds, the screen is shut off (and hopefully there's a way to do it manually). Still an inconvenience.
This was especially disappointing for me because I think Android is shaping up to be a very nice OS, but it's still waiting for the right hardware.
That won't do any difference if it doesn't include any software that the FSF holds the copyrights to. Only the copyright holder of the software in question can sue for copyright infringement.
The HTC Hero that Sprint released in the US has a cheaper looking design and is hardly an object of any sort of lust.
Sure, you could do that.
But you have to hope no one with standing to sue does so, or, that failing, that your excuses for dragging your feet somehow stand up in court.
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
I really wish someone would sue Novell over the Microsoft agreement.
There is no way that agreement is not an indirect method to breach the GPL2.
Indirect methods of avoiding obligations are still methods of avoiding obligations. In this case, collusion to break a contract can be cause for criminal action.
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
I beg to disagree.
I own and use one. I hate e-mail on that beast. And the UI? How can people still screw a UI up so badly after all these years?
(Yeah, I know, a clean UI gives them no place to slip in the constriction point that allows them to charge for basic functionality as if it were extra.)
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
Gartner is always reliable about the future?
(mumble mumble reliable mumble mumble present mumble mumble)
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
>> Slashdot, despite persistent rumors to the contrary, has more than one person commenting on articles.
> I disagree.
Congratulations, you just disagreed with yourself.
How is what HTC is doing more illegal than what Google is doing with their closed source apps based on Andorid ?
So law enforcement helps you, if you are someone "with clout", but if you lack influence you have to sue yourself. Not exactly the way things should be, is it?
I think you're wrong.
Kid-proof tablet..
It it includes the linux kernel, they are probably also using the standard linux user-level API also known as GNU lib C.
Geeks will buy the Nokia N900 with a full scale Linux, QT, and root access with no need to circumvent or break anything.
And the rest will not care about that stuff anyway.
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
I thought that they installed some batteries for that...
Where are my mod points.
Platform advocacy is like choosing a favorite severely developmentally disabled child.
does that make the iPhone the Camary of cell phones? Mass Produced and nice looking, but lacking a few features and there are 40 million of them just like it?
Platform advocacy is like choosing a favorite severely developmentally disabled child.
You can't be opposed to copyrights all the time and encouraging piracy but then turn around and bash people for violating your precious GPL copyright license.
It's almost as if Slashdotters generally want to ensure the free sharing of information and are opposed to things that block it.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
O Really? So, this phone supports what I want? Bluetooth phone book access?
Bluetooth sms access?
Bluetooth AD2P?
Bluetooth Headset profile?
Bluetooth Handsfree profile?
Bluetooth Dial up networking profile?
T9 physical keyboard?
And a nice big screen with a excellent browser?
Truth is, AFAIK, it only has the last one. Bluetooth support is anemic on both the Iphone and android.
This is just so typical of HTC when the http://www.htcclassaction.org/ was going on ...
They bite off more than they can chew, deny it through canned CS responses, and then try to drag it out until it's sorta fixed, or people loose interest.
It's bettable that they wrote all the Hero code without realizing they'll fall under GPL. It's probably also all statically linked together and they didn't bother separating it properly, which is why they can't "release" any of the code "right now".
It's only fair to get a court order to get the code immediately released before they do any more damage to hide their violations.
Any lag you experience is an artifact of the Qualcomm cpu. This has only been a problem for even Windows Mobile when HTC switched to the Q chip starting with the Kaiser (AT&T Tilt) phone.
It's been evident ever since, so it's no surprise that Android suffers from it also especially with HTC's scrolling hacks all over it.
The lag goes away once you switch back to a XScale cpu, or anything else that isn't a Qualcomm cpu.
I see no basis to make such a conclusion.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
The Linux kernel is not copyrighted by the FSF. In addition, many embedded devices use uClibc instead of regular GNU libc. Thus, in neither case, reporting the situation to the FSF will help at all.