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The US's Reverse Brain Drain
We may have to rethink the assumption that Silicon Valley is the hotbed of innovation in which all the world's best and brightest want to work and live. TechCrunch has a piece by an invited expert on the reverse brain drain already evident and growing in the US as Indian, Chinese, and European students and workers in the US plan to return home, or already have. From an extensive interview with Chinese and Indian workers who had already left: "We learned that these workers returned in their prime: the average age of the Indian returnees was 30 and the Chinese was 33. They were really well educated: 51% of the Chinese held masters degrees and 41% had PhDs. Among Indians, 66% held a masters and 12% had PhDs. These degrees were mostly in management, technology, and science. ... What propelled them to return home? Some 84% of the Chinese and 69% of the Indians cited professional opportunities. And while they make less money in absolute terms at home, most said their salaries brought a 'better quality of life' than what they had in the US. ... A return ticket home also put their career on steroids. About 10% of the Indians polled had held senior management jobs in the US. That number rose to 44% after they returned home. Among the Chinese, the number rose from 9% in the US to 36% in China."
More jobs for the rest of us.
...the U.S. had the greatest rise in its living standards. Scientists, engineers, and other professionals from all over the world migrated here in seach of a better life, the opportunity to live pretty much in peace and quiet, or simply to survive. It was seen as the most desireable place to live in the world, and that seemed to become a self-fulfilling prophecy as 'the best and the brightest' came here to do their best.
I wonder, are more folks returning to their home countries' simply because of money and career advancement? Or do they feel less welcome in the culture? Or perhaps their own home cultures are changing to where they feel they can shape them for the better?
This seems more like an anecdote than a study; but there is something wrong when science and engineering and other technical fields are seen as undesirable by most Americans, and the immigrants who come here to learn them decide that they'll have better opportunites back home to use them.
I'm guessing that by better quality they mean materialistically. Being a US citizen I would prefer to live in a place where human rights are championed, personal liberty is maximized and freedom of speech and freedom from government oppression is paramount.
Unless someone is afraid of being randomly assaulted or imprisoned, then no one cares. It's human nature. Bread and circuses you know? I've been to China. It's not Mao's China, not at all.
So, I guess I'm saying where should I move to?
Canada?
Maybe my brain has been drained, too, but, if all the educated people are leaving the US, wouldn't that be a good old regular brain drain and not a reverse brain drain?
"I am Dr. Freud, but you may call me.siggy."
Somalia. The government is too weak to oppress anyone. Of course, that only works if you don't mind giving up a lot of your personal safety, but hey, you win some you lose some.
You really ought to define what you mean by government oppression. Would you include taxation in that category? Because you aren't going to find many governments that don't tax.....
Qxe4
You are confusing quality of life with inequality. In china and india there is truly a land of inequality. With their fancy degrees education and experience when you stick them in a place that has people starving in the streets they are veritable gods.
Economy is such that people are able to survive but big shot CEOs while in the US might be able to afford a nicer car and a bigger house. In China they can afford a nicer garage filled with cars and a mansion with butlers and maids. While this sounds like quite the opportunity... When you look at the average it truly isn't.
I'd think again before I got jealous of a country where most of the populace doesn't have running water. Even if you knew you would be among the privileged would you really wish that on your people?
Foreign students are considered a cash cow by schools, because their fees are much higher, and they are usually funded by sources from their home countries, not from the US. They are subsidizing the education of domestic-born students, not the other way around.
I don't know what your point is; do you really want to boil your water before you drink it? I've done it, and I'll tell you, it sucks. Not only that, you're always wondering if the drops of water you get in your mouth when you take a shower are actually going to cause problems.
In the US, I can just drink the water from the tap, without worrying about whether I'm going to get giardia or something. There's a huge difference. Are you really so focused on splitting hairs that you can't see that?
Qxe4
Poverty in America is entirely different than poverty in China. I mean in China there are people literally living in caves.
Poverty in Scandinavia is entirely different than poverty in America. I mean in America there are people literally living in tents.
Before you mod me down, hear me out and try to think, OK? I'm not directing this semi-rant at anyone in particular, even if YOU think I am.
/.'er spouts off about, all corporations ARE NOT 'evil'. You know, there are companies that value their people, that treat them with respect, that don't overwork their people, etc etc. If you're too lazy to find a decent job, that's your prerogative, but don't whine that it's the fault of American capitalism, or EVIL USA, or whatever your lame group-think of the day is. You're in your own position because that's what YOU CHOSE. PERIOD. Try being accountable for once, and quit expecting something for nothing. You own your destiny.
There is so much BS and misinformation that floats around these threads that it is absolutely ridiculous. It's just so fashionable to be anti-US, and so many uninformed viewpoints are formed by people such as the GP and parent that it's laughable, bordering on pathetic, really. If you want to spout off and sound like a fool because you want to be "in" and be a hater, then that's fine, but you just sound like an uninformed person with a chip on your shoulder.
You want to know who works these 60 hour weeks? People who work for crappy managers at bottom of the line companies that are poorly managed. People who have no spine to stand up for themselves. If you're in this position, it's your OWN FAULT for working for a company that uses you like the tool you apparently are. You're too lazy to get a job at a good company. Don't give me this economy BS either; good talent is always in demand, and regardless of what the average liberal
Listen, there are crappy companies out there, but it is YOUR CHOICE whether you work for them or not.
1 week vacations? Please, get a clue; just get real already. In our industry (you know, I.T.) I have NEVER seen anything under 2 weeks plus holidays, plus more after 3 to 5 years. Again , if you work for a company that uses you in a disrespectful manner, it's YOUR PROBLEM, and YOUR CHOICE to be there. PERIOD. Do something about your situation; you will not be given everything on a silver platter, life takes effort.
You may not like the USA, for whatever reasons, and that's fine. But you know what? We're just people like YOU, like YOUR families, no different at all. We're just born here, just like you were born somewhere else. Because you don't like our political "leaders'" policies, we all suck? NO, that's not fair at all. WE don't make political policy, WE don't directly elect our officials, no matter what you want to believe. WAKE UP.
You're so civilized, you're so superior in your country compared to us, right? WRONG. We're all the same. We're human beings who are at the mercy of our politicians and their sometimes terrible policies. But in your enlightened knowledge, you condemn all of ~300 million of us because of your dislike of a few of our politicians? Yeah, that's very enlightened of you. (That is sarcasm in cased you missed it.)
Everything is a trade-off. Many European countries have 4, 5, 6 week vacation policies. And you have other things we may not have which I'll not get into here. But you also PAY for those perks in terms of *vastly* higher taxation rates. Not an opinion, this is a *fact*. I'm not judging here, I'm just pointing out there's no free ride, only that there's a cost to everything. Yes, you get perks by paying for them, so quit trying to sound superior by implying that these perks are because of your superior society. They are not. They are paid for by YOU, DIRECTLY. Enough of that topic.
The "at will employment" thing is another red herring. People don't get let go from their jobs randomly. Either there's no work long term and you get let go (or the company goes under), or you screw up royally (or are a royal screw-up) and you lose your job. PERIOD. If you think people work 50% more hours than they get paid for because of fear of a random dismissal from their jobs, you're fooling yourself and you sound foolish
The problem is we are backsliding in all those areas, not getting better. Assume he came here 10 years ago - his complaints probably aren't compared to some imaginary version of the US, but rather to how it was when he got here. The more time passes, the more it becomes clear that we really shot ourselves in the foot in a major way with our unhinged militaristic response to 911.