Slashdot Mirror
China Expands Cyberspying In US, Report Says
An anonymous reader writes "A new report published by The US-China Economic and Security Review Commission wags a finger at the People's Republic of China for conducting Internet-borne espionage operations against United States high-tech companies. The paper, written by defense giant Northrop Grumman, provides a detailed case study of one such intrusion that moved large volumes of sensitive tech data out of a US firm in 2007. From a Wall Street Journal article, '"The case study is absolutely clearly controlled and directed with a specific purpose to get at defense technology in a related group of companies," said Larry Wortzel, vice chairman of the commission and a former U.S. Army attaché in China. "There's no doubt that that's state-controlled."' Wang Baodong, a spokesman for the Chinese Embassy in Washington, criticized the commission as "a product of Cold War mentality" that was "put in place to pick China to pieces." He added: "Accusations of China conducting, or 'likely conducting' as the commission's report indicates, cyberspace attacks or espionage against the US are unfounded and unwarranted.'"
China is just checking to see where all it it's money is going.
The notion that China is NOT doing the things they are accused of in this story is utter and complete bullshit .
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
in the U.S. !
Why do I found the report suspect when the author is part of the military-industrial-health care-complex?
Yours In Novy Urengoy,
Kilgore T.
I'm shocked to discover, an emerging world power is spying on the existing world power and is trying to get its weapons technology...
Seriously, this shouldn't even be news. What countermeasures are being taken is a lot more interesting — for both us and the Chinese — but should be kept just as secret for the latter reason...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
the chinese hackers doing this are mostly motivated by ultranationalist impulses. they are self-starting, they are not command and control from the central government. if they discover any informational gems, the desire to report this to the government is also completely voluntary and desirable from an individual nationalistic point of view. if useful enough, such hackers can be brought into the fold and become a genuine command and control tool of the government, but this is at the late stage of things
of course, by completely controlling media, the government is creating a population of robots who aren't thinking critically and are ultranationalist only by default
luckily, tribalism is never stronger than principles in terms of motivations that win over others on the global stage. chinese censorship is creating a generation of cottonheads in its youth, unable to see the wider world for what it is. youth from countries with open and transparent media, and without hermetically sealed censorship of the level china employs, are meanwhile more globalistic and principled in their attitudes, rather than tribal. of course nationalistic, tribal thinking exists in all countries. but only in places like china and iran, who feel the need to control the media, does the nationalism rise to the level of blind passion: these minds simply aren't exposed to other opinions
so china has developed a wonderful machine for keeping china safe and secure from the outside. but as china begins to emerge as a player on the world stage, it is going to have to think on the world stage, not simply react from the point of view a cloistered hermit kingdom that imagines itself walled off from the wider world and its concerns
china will never lead in this world as long as it breeds children who can't think about anything except china. critical thinking only comes from exposure to alternative opinions and points of view. the chinese are raising their children to have no criticla thinking skills, to be blind cottonheaded nationalistic robots
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Isn't everything made in China these days? There's no need to spy companies, just wait for them to get the manufacturing contracts with a Chinese company.
Score: 50% funny, 50% scary.
Nothing like a good scare to rake in some more of that military industrial complex funding pork. It might be true, it might not be, but the incentive for the writer is clear. Too bad it is impolitic towards China at best, but they don't care. They need monies to fight ebil cybercommieterrists, whether those actually exist or not.
A military contractor wrote a report making a foreign power look like a military threat.
I don't doubt China is spying here, electronically and otherwise. However, it seems like a conflict of interest to have someone who would benefit from escalated military production evaluating our military needs.
This report and story are simply American government propaganda. It is difficult to keep Americans believing that this is the "Land of the Free" without creating some sort of external threat. Sometimes those nasty Iranians with their nuclear missile programs are the biggest danger to our American way of life. Other times, it's those copycat Chinese with their industrial espionage trying to take jobs away from good, hard working Americans.
The story in this case is based on the assumption that there is anything worth stealing that is stored on Internet-reachable servers. It's a completely different story when you start questioning why secret information would be put anywhere near the biggest information network in the world. Is the problem a nefarious hacker country, or is the problem an incompetent American government?
Odds are both. However, remove the beam from thine own eye, and all that.
What did they expect? A polite call? A mail?
"Excuse me. We'd like to know about your military efforts. Thank you."
Or is it just a case of: "Countries spy on each other. News at eleven."
I'm sure every country is spying on every other one - including so-called "allies". All this tells us is there's one single case study where someone's internet security wasn't up to scratch.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
Report prepared by group who's going to benefit from new contracts against the "threat"
Spreading fear is great money making machine.
Stop this paranoia.
This report demonstrates precisely why many companies, particularly those with no direct overseas connections, black hole the entire IP ranges of countries like China, Russia, and others. While this does not entirely prevent attacks originating in those countries it does put one more roadblock in the way of any would be attackers (i.e. they must first compromise some other US host before launching their attack through that host). According to the report linked in the TFA, the attackers were able to RDP into company computers directly from China...doh!
Are you kidding me.This is what keep everybody in business. I would have a problem believing them if both sides said they where being good boys and girls
Im shocked. Really shocked. Or perhaps not...... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enercon#cite_note-zeit-0 In other words: So what? Is normal competitive behaviour when the USA is spying, but evil when the USA is the victim? Cry me a river.
They should know better! Shame on them! Everybody knows it's only good/moral/OK if WE do it. Sheesh.
Ok, fair enough. Who would you suggest is better qualified to write a report like this? The Armed forces who are actually doing the fighting? Think tanks? God-forbid, politicians? The general public? Who, exactly, is better qualified to do the research and write a report like this?
Also, are your "doubts" based on anything at all or is that just somekind of gut feeling you have?
I am asking because some of us on this site see the things they speak of in this report. This isn't some esoteric intelligentsia news story. This stuff that is happening in our sandbox and has for multiple years now.
Recently, Obama moved all of ITAR regulated space goods to being under department of commerce. This is the same group that allowed various space companies to work closely with China under Clinton. Problem is, that all of the fixes that were done to China's rockets were transferred to China's nuke missiles and it now appears that same tech was transferred to North Korea AND Iran (both of their missiles showed up with similar fixes). So, now, Clinton's transfer to tech has enabled China, NK, and Iran to land a missile within 1 km diameter or less. Before, none of them could hit within 100 km, which is why China was not putting up space cargo.
Between bad moves on American dems and EU liberals, combined with China's illegal spying, it is safe to say that China will surpass the west militarily much faster than expected.
"the government is creating a population of robots who aren't thinking critically and are ultranationalist only by default"
Have you ever been to china? Do you know anyone from china? I have both visited and have many friends from China. None of them are nationalistic and all of them are sceptical of their government.
Seriously, how is this a new thing?
Holy happy hippy crap!
I worked in Nuclear security, and a Chinese programmer before I was hired ran off with the source code to our nuclear security system and went back to China with it. It is happening.
go figure. It's like over-feeding a pet until it's large enough to eat you, and then complaining that it's eating you.
Table-ized A.I.
Their government has no conscience whatsoever. All I know is communism leads to a society that doesn't innovate.
Is this American Propoganda? There is most likely an element of that. It was chosen to be released, rather than kep quiet.
OTH, is the report accurate? Most likely. China has been building up a military like never seen before. In addition, they have spies over the ENTIRE western nations. They are known to have at least 8 boomers and 8 attack subs. They are getting ready to launch new military only space stations to which the ONLY use of, would be for weapons. Worse, it appears to be multiples. BTW, this space station is different from their quasi-civilian space station that will go up later.
You can chose to dismiss the report, but it does not mean that it is worth having the west look at what is happening. To not do so, is foolish. It is no different than when so many in EU and Australia claimed that Bin Ladin was a threat ONLY to USSR. Now, they are attacking Russia, China, America, and starting in on EU, and Australia. Basically to ignore how China is operating also is to ignore history; 1930's Germany comes to mind.
US is the economical, technological and military superpower; there is no surprise that China, or any other country would be attempting to steal knowledge from them. However, the question is, do they actually succeed? Considering the advancement of the US, and that any medium to large enterprise will have dedicated IT staff to monitor and protect their network, I would be really surprised if most attempts were successful at all. There is certainly some breaches, but not at an alarming scale.
This study was contracted with Northrop Grumman Corporation, which is:
"Northrop Grumman Corporation (NYSE:NOC) is a leading global security company whose 120,000 employees provide innovative systems, products, and solutions in aerospace, electronics, information systems, shipbuilding and technical services to government and commercial customers worldwide."
How convenient would it be if the US government decide to invest billions in cyberspace protection.
In fact hacking through a foreign governments secret, but badly secured websites could severely damage a citizen's health (fatally!) if it caused that website to improve it's security - thereby making it harder for the real spies to gain access.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
as long as china is simply concerned with china
that's not loaded, its simply straightforward and obvious
you criticize what i say with a point of view which is not relevant to my conclusion:
"From my understanding, your main point is that China will need to have more open and engaging policies in order to sustain itself in the global economic and political arena"
i have no confusion or misunderstanding that china can and will continue to take care of itself- to sustain itself
but it won't LEAD
and if china can't lead, then leadership in world affairs will not flow from washington dc to beijing, it will stay in washington dc. if anything, it will flow to brussels, since europe is not a closed, censored media market
by censoring its media, china is creating a generation of dunderheads, only capable of seeing one point of view. if that point of view is "what is good for china" then that is fine if all you care about is china sustaining itself economically and politically. as if that is the only relevant point of view, and more to the point, as if that is the most useful point of view for china's future on the world stage
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Even supposing that the US is spying on China's corporations to the same level as they do everyone else (unlikely, given how much worse China is for this than most developed countries), Chinese corporations would have recourse in the US against such actions if they discovered them. Try being an American company in the equivalent situation in China. The PRC would laugh itself silly at an American company's grievance.
I couldn't get past this: "Wang Baodong" (the spokesman for the Chinese Embassy in Washington...)
i guess you missed the memo
i see whistleblowing on corporations and where they do evil all the time in western media. the same would be completely covered up and whitewashed in china. do you understand the level of pollution chinese companies get away with in china? if chinese companies tried to pull in the west the kind of crap they get away with routinely in china, the media would start a firestorm. oh, in fact they did: melamine in food, ethylene glycol in medicine, lead in toys...
witness:
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/14/showcase-65/
look at those pictures. this is what companies get away with in china. if you showed such pictures in the west about a western company doing that somewhere to people in the west are you going to tell me they get away with anything near remotely as murderous in the west? i'm not asking for historical examples, i'm asking for the here and now. plenty of western companies pollute outside the west... and chinese companies just as much if not more now. here in the west, western companies are sued and erin brockovitched to death. while in china its carte blanche, standard operating procedure: poison poor chinese with impunity
and deny this:
one of the most influential and deeply historically entrenched american businesses has been systematically dismantled over the last 20 years in the usa. its media edifice hamstrung and turned against itself, all of its entrenched political players and lobbying and propaganda utterly defeated. i'm talking about the tobacco industry. where's this amazing western corporate control of our lives again?
i am very sick of this meme that companies control everything in the west
of course money has too much influence in politics. as if this is unique to the west, or even the worst in the west. there are actually are laws about crass manipulation. so the money has to flow in soft ways, in indirect ways, and so its not as big a deal as certain propagandized "money controls everything in the west" fools believe. go back a hundred years, when the obsession was with preventing pinkerton gangs from breaking up union demonstrations with kneecap busting, with breaking up business monopolies, with establishing a standardized hours per workweek, from doing away with child labor, etc. meanwhile, in china, its communist in name, but more ultracapitalist than the usa in reality. try to get your stereotypes in synch with reality please
it is in fact the solid truth that in china, companies have much more influence and arrogant assumed right to pretty much murder, while in the west they are regulated and hounded by the media constantly. no such hounding in a government monopoly media in china, regulations only after they prove embarassing and hurt the bottom line in china
"Have you ever considered that it is precisely ultra-nationalism and 'tribalism' that could actually help China be the next superpower and crush the competition? I guess not."
actually, it won't help china. you need to cooperate on the world stage. you assume for some bizarre reason that india, russia, europe, brazil, etc., will simply roll over and take blatant han imperialism without any resistance
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
it ended in tiananmen square
the worst the us government came up with as a response to the 60s was kent state
there were (and are) plenty of command and control arrogant authoritarian assholes in the us government who were itching (and are itching) to go hardline on the 60s countercultural revolution and its political effects. luckily, they didn't prevail, and are still not prevailing. however, such authoritarian assholes are clearly prevailing in china
its really hard to put a flower in the tip of a national guardsman's rifle and make a potent image and political point when said gun is actively firing on you
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
even the most skeptical about the government's censorship excesses are still completely nationalistic. for example: it is not questioned, in the least, that tibet is part of china
with a straight face, tell me a chinese director could make a "dances with wolves" style movie about chinese troops in tibet, and that such a movie would as widely praised and be as popular with chinese citizens as the real "dances with wolves" was with americans
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
your observations are fine in a vacuum of any other considerations. but if you compare how children are raised in the west, their media market, with children raised in china, the chinese media market, you are not creating a generation of critical thinkers in china because there is no exposure to anything other than "what is good for china". "what is good for the west" is still a valid concern in the west, but in the west, via self-criticism, you sometimes wind up with an even better answer to the question "what is good for the west"
self-introspection, self-criticism, does not necessarily result in a tampening down or destruction of self-centered greed. oftentimes, it actually results in better ways to enrich yourself. in other words, the guy who only thinks about "what is good for me" sometimes cannot see that what is best for him is something he would never see if he was unable to articulate, appreciate, and examine alternative points of view. cooperation and paradoxically giving rather than taking often result in more self-enrichment than simple blind obsessive "me, me, me"
of course there are also plenty of nationalistic blind morons in the west, and critical thinking is a rare commodity anywhere. but the mind is a muscle: use it or lose it. a media environment that challenges people with alternative points of view results in a mind that can justify what it already believes even better, or alternatively, adapt a superior point of view
raising that same mind in a hermetically sealed environment where "harmony" is valued over sometimes ugly truths results in minds that can't always see what is best for them, even if that is their only concern
what is best for china? sometimes, it is self-criticism. is that allowed in china? no. that's my point: what is best for china is not served by being singularly obsessed with what is best for china to the exclusion of any criticism and alternative points of view. a bunch of unthinking robots is all the current chinese media climate creates. this doesn't actually serve china in the end, it impoverishes china because such nationalistic fools do actions which often hurt china, internally and externally
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
USA: Mooom! He's spying on me!
China: Nuh-uh! You can't prove it was me!
in the west, i can view any media source i want. in the west, i can criticize my government freely
in china, i can't view any media source, plenty are blocked. additionally, if i say something that criticises the chinese government, i can be monitored, perhaps punished
the difference is real and significant in terms of the types of minds that are created. there are plenty of nationlistic idiots in the west. but in china, there are many more, as simple result of the fact that the chinese government policy encourages the creation of tribal han and their self-comfort
apparently the chinese government thinks chinese people are pets, slaves, incapable of their own opinions. the chinese government thinks that adult chinese have to be treated like children
by any objective, heck, by any subjective measurement, in the west i clearly have orders of magnitude more freedoms of expression and political opinion than i do in china
which means i am able to fully express my mind as a fully capable human being. the chinese, meanwhile, are only allowed to be children, to be unquestioning robots. this is not my opinion. this is the obvious policy of the chinese government: the chinese people have to be controlled, they can't be treated like adults, they can't be trusted
i have a higher opinion of the chinese people than their own government. why?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
and, in hawaii, i can stand on a street corner and say so. i can go on a website and say hawaii should be independent. no us official will punish me. in fact, if a us official tried to punish me for expressing my political opinion, that official in turn could be punished, sued, even possibly charged with a crime. would that be true of the beijing official who cracked down on the tibetan's expression of political opinion?
i can make a movie about the injustice of hawaii being part of the usa. i can create a political party to that effect. on the mainland usa, i can view said party's literature, i can agree with it, openly, and i can even give that cause money. can a resident of shanghai do that?
http://www.freehawaii.org/
http://freehawaii.blogspot.com/
http://www.hawaiiankingdom.info/
where are those servers located?
they are located in the usa
they are freely allowed to run by the us government
can you say any of those things about what tibetans can do?
a better allegory would be if you had used puerto rico rather than hawaii as an example. puerto rico is not a state of the usa. puerot ricans can not vote for american president. yet in puerto rico, votes continue to come up, and PUERTO RICANS (not washington dc) continue to decide to be part of the usa as a commonwealth by a vast majority rather than be an independent country (they do this for the generous financial reasons of this commonwealth situation)
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/11/15/us/puerto-rico-votes-to-retain-status-as-commonwealth.html
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I heard they had an elimination style competition with varoiious rounds of hacking to see who'd be the head of the cyber espionage unit.
And when they got down to the final survivor they said "You are the geekiest chink!".
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
China is already leading. They are running around teaching a number of African and South American nations Chinese. Add to that they are buying any and all resources regardless of their leaders. They are also supplying weapons and associated IP to nations like North Korea, Burma, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. China IS leading. And they are QUIETLY building up a new axis to take on the west. Only they will be in charge.
that china makes in africa and south america are for the benefit of the chinese
what do you think happens when south americans and africans start asking what is best for south americans and africans?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8314534.stm
you can throw your weight around, but you can't lead, until you think about what other people want. which you can't do, if you've grown up never thinking about that, since your country didn't let you be exposed to anything outside the bubble of official chinese thought
dealings with others in the world is built on consensus. this is direct contrast to chinese authoritarian thinking. meanwhile, anyone raised in a democratic environment, which is also built on consensus, are naturally better suited to the task of world leadership
the chinese will never lead in the world, until they change their way of thinking. sure, world leadership in the hands of washington dc may be in sunset, but if anything, it will pass to brussels, not beijing
the chinese stranglehold on chinese media creates robots, not critical thinkers. if you prefer cotton candy "harmony" over ugly truths and uglier dissent, your mind is free of struggle, but it is also free of thought. why the chinese government thinks its citizens are children is beyond me, but i have more respect for chinese citizens than beijing does
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
It's vitally important the Chinese find out what kind of porn the people at our research labs are into.
I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
Whether that makes you sick or not is irrelevant. Most of the media is controlled by a handful of companies, and that is a fact. There is no real diversity of views, only minor ones. The Chinese state censors Western propaganda, where you get your idea of democracy, that you put as a condition to be a superpower. If China has showed us anything, is precisely that being a democracy is not a pre-condition to succeed on the world stage.
BTW, how much "global international cooperation" did the US need to become a world super-power? Next to none. Ultra-nationalism is a strength, not a weakness. And it does not exclude cooperation with other no less nationalistic countries such as Russia, India, or Brazil.
As I said, I find your view on China to be extremely simplistic.
"if a us official tried to punish me for expressing my political opinion, that official in turn could be punished, sued, even possibly charged with a crime."
Where do you think you live again?
Here is just one of the many examples where the government chooses to silence those that oppose them. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2009/sep/25/sonic-cannon-g20-pittsburgh
do you equate political dissent with hooligans intent on smashing windows?
do you really think that me writing my political opinion on a website is the same as some yahoo throwing bricks at police?
why do you think these are remotely the same:
1. the police control a handful of anarchist idiots who can't be reasoned with, feel they have a right to destroy things, and don't understand anything except physical force
2. the government monitors, filters, and punishes any and all political expression by anyone in the country
that's the difference between the west and china
do you have an ability to appreciate the difference? do you really think the level of control in china is anything remotely near that in the west?
because the west has to control a handful of destructive hooligans in pittsburg: this in your mind is the same as a government which filters and controls ALL media and internet expression by EVERYONE? really?
and as for the sound cannon: this is new technology meant to control anarchist idiots nonlethally, without using bullets. in other words, an advancement in nonlethal confrontation. but apparently, just because its a new technology, this is a rationale for your criticism. pffft
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
"Most of the media is controlled by a handful of companies, and that is a fact."
we are reading and interacting on slashdot. which is not owned or run by megaultraevil corporation inc. it is one of thousands of independently run media outlets in the usa, which you are freely allowed to visit. right now, i can go read the news in tehran, or in beijing. if i were in beijing or tehran, i could not freely read the news in new york city. in china: there is only one media outlet. the government. you call my views simplistic. your views aren't simplistic: they are clearly falsehoods
"There is no real diversity of views, only minor ones."
translation: "i have some fringe wackjob belief i don't see getting the respect i think it deserves". because according to anyone levelheaded its not a belief that deserves much airtime, because it is easily dismissed, and is noncontroversial. but prove me wrong: go out and agitate for widespread support for your beliefs. you are free to try that, in the west (not in china). but if you can't get the support you think you deserve, is it because the people think you are nuts? or is it because some evilmegaultra corp is suppressing you?
"The Chinese state censors Western propaganda"
the chinese state censors its own people. for example, you are right now in the west, questioning the west. you are 100% allowed to do that and i support your right to do that. you are not allowed to question china, if you live in china. get the difference oh great wise one?
"where you get your idea of democracy, that you put as a condition to be a superpower."
yes, i believe that it is far superior to rule via consensus rather than force. it is not a condition for being a superpower, it is a condition for you to deserve respect as a government in my eyes. do you believe it is superior to rule via force than consensus?
"If China has showed us anything, is precisely that being a democracy is not a pre-condition to succeed on the world stage."
i never thought it was. the entirety of human history has shown brutality often rules. the chinese from their own history know that well: from mongol invasions to the opium wars, the chinese know they have to be strong to survive in this world. does it mean they shouldn't respect their own people and censor their own people's expression? why does beijing not respect its own people? i have more respect for chinese people and treat them like adults than beijing does, which treats its people like children
"BTW, how much "global international cooperation" did the US need to become a world super-power? Next to none."
the usa didn't exist 250 years ago. it rose to power dramatically over much older countries through the force of its ideas: a free market, rule via democracy rather than monarchy/ dictatorship. this has made it a strong stable country. its not a zero sum game: the usa did not take from someone else in order to be strong, the usa built its strength from within. the usa is not strong because of nike sweat shops in indonesia, or because it toppled the iranian govt, or assassinated chilean politicians. these were all stupid mistakes the usa committed. but none of those actions are reasons why the usa is strong. the usa is strong because of what its government and its people values. other countries that have been around a lot longer than the usa, who have committed just as many international crimes as the usa does (including china) are not as powerful as the usa, simply because they do not value free trade in capital and ideas like the usa does. china has learned to value capitalism. china is now more capitalistic than the usa, even though it is ruled by the communist party, which is some sort of laughable absurdity. if china next respects the free exchange of ideas like the usa, i will embrace china as readily as i embrace the usa. because i am not about tribalism, i am about principles
"Ultra-nationalism is a strength, not a weakness."
hi, nice to meet you fascist
"And it does not exclude c
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
egocentric idiotic tribal ultranationalists exist everywhere. in the usa, and in china. in the usa, you are allowed to question such ultranationalism. in china, such ultranationalism is a monopoly, the state owned media, and if you question the party line, you are fair game for monitoring, admonishment, and perhaps prosecution
this clearly means more minds are swayed towards han imperialism in beijing than there are minds in washington dc swayed towards american imperialism. this clearly means more minds in china adhere to the official "harmonious" monoculture, while in the usa they are allowed to inhabit a diversity of dissenting niches. a diversity of thought clearly results in a more supple, less brittle pool of minds, much more ready to lead via consensus, which is the only way you lead on the world stage
you really want to sit there and say that the media environment in the usa versus china makes no difference? you really want to say that argument of mine is thin?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
What makes you think the US might "only" be spying on the Chinese government? Remeber the ruckus about huawei routers? Its chips? etc.? Pfft.
If you want to claim "two wrongs don't make a right", don't shoot yourself in the foot by arguing that anyway, the first wrong is muuuuch woooorse than the second. Shyeah right. If spying is wrong, then spying is wrong, regardless of who does it and what the target is. If spying isn't wrong then spying isn't wrong, regardless of who does it or what the target is. As far as I'm concerned, both China's and America's spying are equally accepted facts of life. Also: Team America is Go!
Nice to see the parent modded "troll" just because it doesn't agree with the American Agenda. Really, things will get a million times better for everyone when you stop pretending you're somehow better than everyone else. For everyone? Well, no, perhaps not for actual extremists, because it takes away their easy target. Pretty hard to villify people that act responsibly and atone for their crimes.
These Chinese types really think for one minute that nobody knows that Chinese Intelligence hasnt been trying to hack or successfully hacking into Corporations networks ? What a bunch of liars! I have worked as a security engineer at some very large Corps in silicon valley and let me inform those that may or may not already know that we had traced IPs belonging to several govt agencies probing and eventually trying to infiltrate our networks ! Thats how bold they are. They wont go to an area that has a IP address belonging to Ma jung a.k.a average Joe but rather right out of there Govt run networks ! But then again we are dealing with a govt that cant develop there own supercomputer on there own without Bill Clinton giving them a few. The Chinese govt is such a Tool.
it is no mistake that out of the enlightenment in europe came the foundations of modern science. the enlightenment started as a questioning of religious edicts from the catholic church, the protestant reformation. the point was: when you question supposedly solid beliefs, you begin your intellectual growth. it doesn't mean you have to give up those beliefs, but some beliefs, yes, you will give up, and this will provide new avenues of thought which is a REQUIREMENT for a strong supple mind. you ask: "How does limiting it in this one small way somehow break the mind as a whole?" and i reply: there is no such limiting in a small way. thats not possible. either the mind is free in all avenues, or it is hobbled in all avenues. cognition does not break down into tiny social compartments
centuries before the enlightenment, the caliphate was the light of the world, where great science was made: algebra, distilled alcohol, alchemy, the names of stars, etc. but you won't see great science coming out of the islamic world today, as they are mired in fundamentalism and autocracies. the ayatollah is on record saying iran's future preeminence rests on it becoming technologically sophisticated and independent. but you will never have that in the iranian theocracy. all of their great nationalist "advancements": nuclear reactors, their satellite launch: its all technology borrowed from elsewhere. a society that rewards obedience to a belief system that cannot be openly questioned creates minds which are not predisposed and capable of scientific inquiry
of course, such great minds still exist in iran, in childhood. in every society exists certain brilliant children who, if the society were a pure meritocracy of ideas, would be rewarded and would prosper. but the "education" in iran, read "indoctrination", would punish such great minds: the mind that obediently brown noses would win the highest marks, the highest grades
the mind that blindly parrots the religious status quo would win control of the science department, not the truly technically most advanced. iranian society has spoken: political and social obedience is most important. i'm saying a great scientific genius in iran would be incapable of not also saying something that would get him in trouble with the religious authorities. simply because the mind that can come to great scientific insights is automatically also a mind which questions all sorts of other things about the world around him. you do not find in science departments anywhere in the world the ultranationalist, the deeply socially conservative, the politically reactionary, the religiously devout. why is that do you suppose?
i'm not changing the subject from china, i'm broadening the topic to show you my point is not limited to chinese control of the media. there is a reason why the usa and western europe has grown so powerful and has invented things like the internet: you can say and think whatever you want, and therefore that which is "truth" that which is most valued is only that which stands on its own. the usa has nothing that cannot be adopted to any other country in the world. and doing so would make that country as powerful as the usa. meanwhile, if you artificially attempt to control ideas, to control the free exchange of thought, all you do is hobble and weaken it
take all the arguments about communism and the free exchange of capital, and apply it to authoritarianism, and the free exchange of ideas. if you understand why communism does not make everyone equally middle class, but why it makes everyone equally poor, then you understand why authoritarian control of media and attempts to control the free exchange of ideas is equally hobbling in terms of intellectual richness. if only human thought could be walled off as simply political. if only those who control said "dangerous" thought only comes from cetain sectors of society. if only thought in one avenue of intellectual expression had no implications on any other
control any aspect of free expression, and you poison the w
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
It's what now, 3 or 4 times a year we hear this same story? If there were something we really didn't want them to have, and I'm sure there's plenty, we'd put it where they couldn't get to it, ie. not networked/online.
Face it, they're the main supplier for the myriad crap consumables and durable goods we pick up the the People's Republic of Walmart. At the pries they're getting they can't afford to buy these 'secrets' and still come up to par with us. If we charged them, their businesses would never get the chance to take over the country, so we could buy them out and control them financially, like we did with Russia.
If we really wanted them to stop, they'd 'find' things that's scare the bamboo curtain back down.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
One point that has been little mentioned in these posts ... Why the hell do these companies have classified information accessible from public facing networks? This kind of information should be available on internal networks only.
I don't know anything for certain one way or another, but I have upwards of 100 password-crack attempts a day on one FTP server alone from Chinese IPs, and I'm on a small business cable pipeline.
Blacklisting a whole country is very close on my agenda.
This really isn't rocket science folks. It really isn't. if you are worried about your data being on the net, then don't put it there. If you need a web face, get a single computer, put a web server on it, done. Oh, what if they should break into your web server!!!!! Well, since its not connected to your local lan, they have to do an air breach to get to your sensitive data. But, but, but... you say. Go ahead, say it. Keep your sensitive data off the net. Get it off and keep it off. There isn't anything more to say.
Corporate spies and government spies are intermingling these days; the line is blurred. They even hire each other!
The CIA hires outsiders in part, to get around their limitations. The USA has done tons of stuff militarily and covert for the benefit of its influential corps or corp groups at least since out messing around in South America for food corps. (likely before that, I draw a blank atm.) Its not just the war for oil recent stuff nor is it just 1 party. It doesn't even need to be organized-- plenty of gov employees get access to info useful to corps and want to make an extra buck-- I'm sure that stuff happened plenty and isn't that big a deal to get it curbed much--- most likely it spread into more a organized system. Its not just a conspiracy theory, its a the nature of these systems to produce such conspiracies - the smarter the better they are and the less gets noticed. Its so bad now we have a lobbyist revolving door between congress and industry.
Just 1 man's story:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit_Man
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
Your wargaming skills are rather lacking in today's world.
They already have millions of personnel in every important natural resource and high tech development area around the world. In research universities and high tech business. Not thousands, millions. And they are taking western stockpiled money they have by the planeload and buying up extremely long term resource contracts, millions of acres of farmland, and gaining access to all modern tech in real time as it is being developed. All of it. And they care naught for your precious "IP", either.
They don't need a huge navy, that is 20th century thinking, especially in these days of a million dollar missile that can take out a billion dollar carrier. Oh, the carriers have anti missile missiles? No problem, they analyze how many the carrier holds, and shoot off one extra over that number. It is still a good trade, your carrier and 80 planes are now sunk. And subs that can surface in the middle of carrier battle groups undetected, just to tweak them.
Their navy, which they are building up, is for show and face mostly, and to intimidate much smaller nations in their perceived theater, which is "the pacific ocean and nearby landmass and islands". It is to keep taiwan, the phillipines, south korea, viet nam, etc on their toes and respecting them. It will serve as a warning to India to not tweak the dragon.
Their real military strength is "stealth" or asymmetrical,(just like the US "was" in WW2, but not now, because of peaceful non attacked manufacturing back home, plus access to all the oil they could possibly need, that's what really won the wars) it is in the sheer force of numbers already deployed all over the world as students, businessmen, and natural resource workers, combined with their unmatched industrial manufacturing capacity. Unmatched. Numbers that go up daily and that they can continue..forever. They are turning out more scientists and engineers than the western nations combined. Millions and millions of their countrymen they can export, gathering influence and wealth all over the world. It is the "engulf the planet and own it" doctrine.
People say the US is imperialistic because it has 153 foreign military bases. Pikers. China has 11,530 foreign "stealth bases" actively staffed and being run now, gathering strength, wealth and power, and sending it back home, on a daily basis. They have enough surplus cash now to just accumulate huge stockpiles of industrial metals, huge as in acres and acres of pallets of ingots. They are buying up entire mines or large stakes in the world's largest mining areas, everywhere. Signing 20 year contracts for energy delivery, then building the pipelines, ships and assorted infrastructure needed to take advantage of that. Doing nation to nation deals that dwarf the largest western energy companies that get all the headlines but are really small potatoes. They are building an entire new rail system and ocean terminal service seaport that extends across Africa, just to get to the new mines they will be operating and basically owning, that they got cheap by paying off some warlords there..err "elected leaders". A new large scale powerplant that goes in weekly domestically. and every et cetera under the Sun.
NO ONE else is building out at the scale they are, globally. No one else is even remotely close. They are making the west's navies and militaries obsolete from forward thinking and long range planning.
And when all the profits are coming from there, even the military industrial complex in the west will be shifting allegiance. Slowly, but it will happen. These very large globalist armaments industries are profit driven, not geographical location-loyal driven. None of them are. They do not care where those profits come from, they are THE strongest lobbiests in DC now to loosen up export restrictions. This should be at least a tiny clue. Same with the IT industry, the chemical industry, advanced large agricultural industry. Th
Over 150 comments and nobody mentioned real report cause?
In soviet russia (or maybe in UK) this kind of "reports" are simple baits that "confirm" successfull action of enemy intelligence.
It should be clear for anyone with half brain that data retrieved by enemy was planted in relatively easy to access place as disinformation.
are full of chinese ip's. Seems port 49365 is being probed along with the usual well known ports.
didn't invent itself.
I find it ironic that until about 1000 years ago, the Chinese were inventing some serious shit! I mean paper, gunpowder, the compass, printing, paper money, the toothbrush... the list goes on and on.
I guess one day they just blew their mental loads and decided that it was easier to steal other nations' technologies. Or maybe they figure they have already contributed enough to civilization and now they deserve to reap the benefits.
i'm guessing 11
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
...and we will remove such statements from your sites asap
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_United_States#War_on_Terrorism
i am making an objective reading of your intellectual sophistication based upon what you have written:
you're 11 years old, or a certifiable low iq moron
but thanks for the laughs retard
xoxoxoxoxoxoxox
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
No matter if you are preoccupied, in 20 years China will be the first economy in world.
Maybe I can hope that the folks at the more impressive military contractors have lots of servers with files almost expertly tucked away, with firewalls almost strong enough to keep out brilliant scoundrels, that are chock full of military secrets... that are fake.