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HTC Finally Releases Hero Source Code

Posted by timothy on from the shouldn't-heroes-be-more-forthcoming? dept.

An anonymous reader writes "After months of prodding by developers, HTC has finally released the long-requested Android source code for the HTC Hero. This follows up on a recent report on Slashdot concerning device manufacturer HTC's perceived stonewalling over releasing source code for the device after repeated attempts to initially obtain source were met with vague responses."

32 of 123 comments (clear)

  1. Re:HTC by AnEducatedNegro · · Score: 5, Informative

    Anyone know what kind of custom stuff they're build for Android?

    Sense UI and a few applications. Nothing spectacular, android steals all the glory. In fact, don't waste your time on the HTC Hero.. wait another week and get the Samsung Moment. Faster proc, onscreen keyboard and physical keyboard, better battery life.

    I love my HTC Hero but boy is it slow at times. And I'm not just talking about waiting for an app to load, there are times when the entire device just decides to freeze up for 2-3 seconds while queuing input.

    aEN

  2. Not so bad... by Sarten-X · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm assuming good faith, but personally, I'm not concerned that it took so long to release the source code. Most likely, the developers were under a deadline to have the phone in working order, and had to postpone lower-priority tasks to meet that deadline. These lower-priority tasks were probably such trivial things as comments, changed names, formatting, and all those other bits that get neglected under heavy pressure.

    --
    You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    1. Re:Not so bad... by mevets · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I've been in situations that appear like this in companies before. Usually it is stage fright, the developers know they took outrageous short cuts to meet schedules, and don't want to publish it until SP1, when they have had time to remove the hacks and crap. These are the good guys. One company I worked for thought that the source was harder to understand than the (disassembled) binary; they had a point.

      Sometimes I wonder how much of a role of embarrassment plays in the decision to keep the source code private. Happy Launch Day Windows 7!

    2. Re:Not so bad... by iYk6 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm assuming good faith, but personally, I'm not concerned that it took so long to release the source code. Most likely, the developers ... had to postpone lower-priority tasks to meet that deadline.

      You think that meeting legal requirements is a low priority task? And that pirating free software goes with good faith?

    3. Re:Not so bad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, it's most likely because they are Chinese (Taiwanese, same thing) and don't give a shit about open source anything. Having worked with Chinese and Taiwanese OEMs, I can tell you firsthand that getting them to abide by any open source licensing is like pulling teeth. If it's free to download, it's free to use however they like, period.

      Posting anon because naive politically-correct types with zero Asian development experience will mod me down.

    4. Re:Not so bad... by MemoryDragon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Even in the EU you can see differences. I am from central Europe, and sometimes I can only shake my head on the US you have to abide by the law no matter what mentality. We here have the mentality that law is done by people and sometimes the law is not fair so public disrespect and civil disobediance has to be done. That starts with small things but can also go big.
      My personal opinion is this is the best way to cope with laws because as everything in life even laws are not a black and white thing, but if you live that way you have to live with getting punished (which literally no one cares here, unless the punishment starts to hurt severely)

      So we dont have a black and white view on law. I assume if you go further east this becomes more along the lines of a nationalistic view of
      we only care about laws which are done by us and no one else.
      (We dont have that view on due to our history)

      I guess our view is due to our history we have run through 2 fascistic governments
      in the last 100 years and the laws back then neither wair fair nor could you obey
      them without getting into conflict with your personal conscience.
      There is always something above the law because law is done by man.

  3. Re:HTC by delire · · Score: 5, Informative

    Sounds like you need to upgrade the firmware..

    People are reporting huge speedups after doing so.

  4. Nice by blind+biker · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Sure, I know, they were supposed to, by law. But they at least didn't drag their feet too long, and deserve some kudos for choosing an open-source platform to begin with.

    What, if any, is the (physical or otherwise) obstacle for this device to become a hacker's darling? Here "hacker" is used in that old, positive meaning.

    --
    "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    1. Re:Nice by wasabii · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What, if any, is the (physical or otherwise) obstacle for this device to become a hacker's darling? Here "hacker" is used in that old, positive meaning.

      I guess the same as every other Android phone? A signed flashing process that needs to be cracked?

      The only reason people can install custom Android copies on the G1 is because of a leaked SPL and the root console bug. Oh, and the ADP.

  5. Re:HTC by eihab · · Score: 2, Funny

    I love my HTC Hero but boy is it slow at times. And I'm not just talking about waiting for an app to load, there are times when the entire device just decides to freeze up for 2-3 seconds while queuing input.

    Give it a second, It's going to space! [1:30]

    --
    If you can't mod them join them.
  6. Code cleanup by Smidge204 · · Score: 3, Funny

    They were probably stalling for time while they read over the source code to remove all the swear words and personal attacks against coworkers...

    =Smidge=

    1. Re:Code cleanup by Webcommando · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They were probably stalling for time while they read over the source code to remove all the swear words and personal attacks against coworkers...

      =Smidge=

      Don't forget they had to remove the 1000's of TODO's that were still in the code comments with several "We really should fix this before release" and a couple of "This works but I'm not sure why."

      --
      I love the sound of distortion in the morning -- webcommando
  7. not android source code by wcoenen · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is not actually about android source code as the summary says. Android source code is distributed under the Apache License, which doesn't require you to "give back" modifications to the open source community. This is just about the GPL-ed part: the linux kernel.

    1. Re:not android source code by Dr_Marvin_Monroe · · Score: 4, Insightful
      That's an awesome point. To drive that home a little further for the folks at www.phonenews.com, here's the snip from the above link to wikipedia

      Licensing

      Since 21 October 2008, Android has been available as open source. Google opened the entire source code (including network and telephony stacks[23]) under an Apache License.[24]

      With the Apache License, vendors are free to add proprietary extensions without submitting those back to the open source community.

      After the negative attitude I read on the link at "phonenews" from the article, I'm really wishing HTC hadn't released it... Just to put those folks at "phonenews" in their place. They don't know what they're talking about, spewing a bunch of hate towards people from India and they're just trashing on HTC.

      I've been a author / user / supporter of open source software for over 10 years now and I'm still really shocked at the attitude and misconceptions that some folks have about what should be released and how fast it needs to be done. Even under strict GPL, HTC is ONLY required to release the source to people who have actually bought the phone. When exactly did the Hero go on sale?

      I've also personally worked with HTC on several mobile phones and I've found them to be very forthcoming. They're busy as hell, working insane hours continuously, and if they can't satisfy the Trolls at phonenews, that's too bad.

    2. Re:not android source code by ivucica · · Score: 2, Informative
      No, just provide users of binary releases either source, or a written offer valid for a few years to provide source. Certainly not to everyone.

      a) Accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code, which must be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,
      b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,
      c) Accompany it with the information you received as to the offer to distribute corresponding source code. (This alternative is allowed only for noncommercial distribution and only if you received the program in object code or executable form with such an offer, in accord with Subsection b above.)

      [snip]

      If distribution of executable or object code is made by offering access to copy from a designated place, then offering equivalent access to copy the source code from the same place counts as distribution of the source code, even though third parties are not compelled to copy the source along with the object code.

  8. A little unfair... by pablo_max · · Score: 4, Informative

    I would venture to say that any decision to delay the release of code has very little to do with HTC trying to stonewall.
    Contrary to what people think, you are not allowed to do what ever you want to a phone.
    Naturally, Andriod has access to the phones protocol and RF layers. Giving the user access to these layers is a VERY, VERY bad idea.
    To sell a mobile phone in North America, a manufacture must obtain PTCRB certification. This is a very stringent set of tests which look at all layers and all the hardware, including the antenna performance. We are talking more than 6000 tests and more than $800K!!
    Once they pass..this SVN (Software version number) is locked in. ANY changes in code or hardware and the manufacture must make an ECO with PTCRB and make some additional checks.
    The main reasons for this is network health and link budgets.
    The carrier must be able to count on your phone acting in a predetermined way in order to keep the network on the air. Believe it or not, one single phone could bring down an entire tower!
    I can promise you that the carriers will NEVER allow a situation where YOU can alter those layers and kill the network.
    I am sure HTC need a fair amount of time to figure out how to lock it down and still let you mess with the OS.

    1. Re:A little unfair... by Miamicanes · · Score: 3, Informative

      A major complication is the fact that today's PDA phones are basically cellular winmodems. Ever wonder why a Samsung SPH-i300 with ~40MHz 680x0-ish Dragonfire didn't feel all that much slower than a 400MHz dual-core ARM running WinMo? Part of the problem is WinMo's bloat... but an even bigger part of the problem is the fact that cpu #2 spends basically 100% of its time being a software-based faux DSP anytime the radio is in use... and occasionally steals cycles from cpu #1 while it's at it. In contrast, the humble i300 was literally a cell phone radio bolted to a PalmOS PDA, connected by LITERALLY a serial port. In every meaningful way, the two were completely independent. Dialed a number on the LCD-rendered keypad? The Palm side sent what was basically an ATDT command to the phone side. Incoming call? The phone side did the actual ringtone (the beefy speaker was connected to the phone; the palm side just had a wimpy piezo), and sent ###RING xxxxxxxxxx down the serial port for the Palm to decide what to do with it. Pressed the green button to answer the call? The Palm side sent (literally) ATA down the serial port to the phone. And so on.

      The good thing about Winmodem-like cellphones is... um... er... uh... well, I'm sure there's something good about it. But anyway, the bad thing is that it means that you're basically talking about a gigahertz-rate raw DAC and ADC creating a software-defined radio. The supreme irony is that the hardware in a G1 probably COULD be hacked to do UMTS at 850MHz on AT&T... but it would be utterly illegal, precisely because it would wreak havoc with AT&T's network and mess up your neighbors' service while you spent saturday afternoon debugging it.

      As I understand it, a phone running Android (or Windows Mobile, for that matter) is kind of like a PC running Linux under VMware under Windows (or vice-versa). You have the hypervisor-like "Supreme Controller" that runs the software that makes it a radio, with Linux-nee-Android running under the hypervisor. So you really ARE root as far as Linux/Android is concerned, but behind the curtain, Root has a metaphorical deity of his own to serve. I'm not entirely sure how it's enforced, and how much of it is handled by actual hardware partitioning (ie, whether the CPU takes a cue from memory curtaining, so that the core running the radio has ram and registers that the core running the UI and apps can't touch), but that's a rough summary of what happens behind the scenes on an Android phone.

    2. Re:A little unfair... by jeffstar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      if it is a wireless router, a single misbehaving client can render it useless.

      not surprising that it is possible to jam cell a cell tower with a cell phone if the phone was somehow set to constantly transmit random data at full power. If the tower can't hear the other phones because yours is shouting at it constantly there is nothing you can do to stop that.

    3. Re:A little unfair... by jeffstar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      it is wireless, a shared medium. only one client on any given frequency at any given time. it will always be possible to jam radio signals. no amount of engineering can change this

    4. Re:A little unfair... by lordlod · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The good thing about Winmodem-like cellphones is... um... er... uh... well, I'm sure there's something good about it.

      It's cheaper. Cost is the God in consumer electronics upon which everything else is sacrificed. The could be saving up to $5 per phone doing it this way. Ship 20 million phones and that's $100 million dollars in the bank. The effort made in consumer electronics to save four cents (over 10 million units) would probably make your head spin.

      The difference in the two approaches isn't as much as you are making out to be. The dedicated radio chip is still running a microprocessor written in software. By combining the two processors in the single package you save cost and space (more cost).

      The major downside to this is debugging the radio processing where it's interfered with by other actions on the phone, having two cores probably helps a lot with this. That said, assigning three engineers full time for a year to figure it out is trivial compared to the savings you get.

      (I spent a year of my life fixing a 'creative' electronic circuit that saved us 8 cents per board).

    5. Re:A little unfair... by w0mprat · · Score: 3, Informative

      The radio software and SPL (second program loader) in a HTC Android phone are closed source, Android sits on top of this and is more analogous to a VM running on a light OS underneath. (As someone points out below, you may think have root on your droid, but you don't really have root). Thus it is not really harmful to have the Android code out there, as the low-level software that would do the most harm is proprietary and fairly well protected.

      --
      After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
    6. Re:A little unfair... by bushing · · Score: 5, Informative

      A major complication is the fact that today's PDA phones are basically cellular winmodems. [...] In contrast, the humble i300 was literally a cell phone radio bolted to a PalmOS PDA, connected by LITERALLY a serial port.

      [...]As I understand it, a phone running Android (or Windows Mobile, for that matter) is kind of like a PC running Linux under VMware under Windows (or vice-versa).

      This is not true, at least not in the case of the iPhone (which has an Infineon baseband processor connected to a Samsung "Applications Processor" by "LITERALLY a serial port") or the Palm Pre (Qualcomm baseband, TI OMAP AP).

      Qualcomm's product info page for the MSM7201 processor used in the HTC Hero says that it includes "Integrated ARM11 applications processor and ARM9 modem, QDSP4000 and QDSP5000 high-performance digital signal processors (DSP)". It would seem likely that the ARM9 core (in combination with one or both of the DSPs) does all of the modem work; I see no reason to suspect that the ARM11 ever "steals cycles from cpu #1".

    7. Re:A little unfair... by Miamicanes · · Score: 3, Interesting

      > The effort made in consumer electronics to save four cents (over 10 million units) would probably make your head spin.

      Tell me about it. It's what condemned many very, very expensive first-generation CD-Rs to the coaster bin (no ram buffer to speak of, so if the CPU got distracted for even a fraction of a second, the CD was toast), and sent almost every Samsung SPH-i330 to an early grave (a few cents saved using mask rom instead of flash, coupled with a fatal bug that bricked them within a few weeks of use and couldn't be fixed). Not to mention the problems due to aggressive cost-cutting that have plagued videogame consoles for decades. Red Ring of Death, anyone?

    8. Re:A little unfair... by cliffjumper222 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Mod this guy up, the parent doesn't know what he's talking about. Most smartphones use dual cores or bridge architectures where the applications processor and the modem processor are separate and communicate over a serial link, be it USB, shock-horror a UART or shared memory. And even more shock horror, yes they might even use AT commands to do talk to each other - even today!

    9. Re:A little unfair... by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 2, Insightful

      All your points are valid, but they don't negate the fact that if you use code under a license that requires you to make your code or modifications available to those you distribute the binaries to, you have to abide by the terms of the license and do so.

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    10. Re:A little unfair... by jeffstar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      you have divided the channel into slots in order to share it. slots are assigned by time (TDMA) or frequency (CDMA/FHSS) or other means.

      still only one transmitter per frequency per moment in time

    11. Re:A little unfair... by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Contrary to what people think, you are not allowed to do what ever you want to a phone.

      Um yes I can, Please give me the LAWS that state otherwise.

      I can do ANYTHING I WANT with my phone. I have an openmoko on AT&T and they cant control my phone other than turning off service. I can do anything I want with my phone, and the worse they can do is turn off service.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  9. It's not pirating if the intent is good by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You think that meeting legal requirements is a low priority task?

    That depends on who might sue you. Certainly to technical people it would generally be a low priority, and even to business managers anxious to get something out in the market and revenue going. The company lawyers don't win every battle you know.

    And that pirating free software goes with good faith?

    It's not pirating if the intent is to comply. Just like it's not really pirating if you truly download media with intent to review.

    In other words, cut people some slack - generally they mean well, and in this case specifically they obviously meant well since they complied fully.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  10. Re:HTC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    wait another week and get the Samsung Moment.

    Damn my impatience! I waited a moment and ended up with the Samsung Week.

  11. Re:HTC by atamido · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I love my HTC Hero but boy is it slow at times. And I'm not just talking about waiting for an app to load, there are times when the entire device just decides to freeze up for 2-3 seconds while queuing input.

    Sounds like my iPhone 3G. From the initial 2 firmware to the current 3, there are constant multi-second pauses. Heck, just unlocking it can sometimes take close to 10 seconds. And yes, I've had my phone replaced so I know it's not the hardware. And I reboot it regularly. It's a great device, but a mediocre phone.

  12. As far as I see, it's only kernel source ... by kojot350 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I see only kernel source here: http://developer.htc.com/ so it looks like they released only the part they had too.

    --
    [ $[ $RANDOM % 6 ] == 0 ] && rm -rf / || echo *Click*
    1. Re:As far as I see, it's only kernel source ... by MemoryDragon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah why should they release the other part, touchflo is their bread and butter, without that they simply would be just another phone vendor and even one with mediocre low end specced hardware. Touchflo is the part which stands out compared to the rest of the phones.
      I would only release the source either if I was in their position.