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Comparing the Freedoms Offered By Maemo and Android

Posted by timothy on from the they-canna-take-our dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Maemo 5 and Android have received a lot of publicity lately, despite the former not even shipping yet. Both have become famous partly for using the Linux kernel, but now that we have a choice, how do we pick one? Is the issue as mundane as choosing your favorite desktop distribution, or is there a more significant difference? This article compares the two from an end user and developer perspective, emphasizing root access and ease of sharing code."

53 of 244 comments (clear)

  1. Freedom of choice is made for you, my friend by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Maemo 5 and Android have received a lot of publicity lately, despite the former not even shipping yet. Both have become famous partly for using the Linux kernel, but now that we have a choice, how do we pick one?

    I assume that you'd probably pick the one that you can actually buy. Or you could opt to buy nothing, but that's not really picking one.

    "We" don't really have a choice, do we?

    1. Re:Freedom of choice is made for you, my friend by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, I've had a Maemo device since 2007, and a couple of my friends have Android devices, so I'm not really sure what your point is. I don't really like either, but I'd probably choose Maemo because it runs X11 and so it's much easier to port programs to. You can run OpenOffice, for example, on a sufficiently powerful Maemo device, but porting it to Android would be a lot more effort.

      --
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    2. Re:Freedom of choice is made for you, my friend by SCHecklerX · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Simple. Get a Palm Pre. Seriously. WebOS is good stuff. Download the SDK, plug the phone into your computer, and type 'novaterm' (ok, first you have to type the konami code on the phone). Hey. Look. Linux. And the apps are all text (javascript to be precise). You even have things like vi and wget without having to install them.

    3. Re:Freedom of choice is made for you, my friend by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, it really sucks to have a mature system that supports remote display (want to run CPU-intensive apps elsewhere and display on your portable? Want to run apps on the portable and display them on a bigger screen?), is compatible with most UNIX GUI software written since the mid '80s, supports compositing, OpenGL, accelerated text rendering, and cleanly separates policy and mechanism so that window and compositing management can be easily swapped out and replaced.

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    4. Re:Freedom of choice is made for you, my friend by Microlith · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Basically, you have a Busybox session where vi and wget haven't been compiled out. You're still bound to whatever Palm decides to push your way.

      Which makes me wonder if you can replace the kernel on a Palm Pre, or if it will only boot a signed kernel.

  2. maymo? memo? meemo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    If I choose that one, there's a danger that some geek will say, "You don't even know how to pronounce it, you clueless f***!" Big-time pain and humiliation.

  3. How do I choose? by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I choose the one that will install on the hardware I own. or the one that has the most pro user functions and anti carrier functions...

    I.E. mp3 ringtones that are not locked out.
    Backgrounds can be any file I choose to upload to it, same as themes. Give me a way to design and upload a look change without makign the carrier rich.

    All features enabled and systems in place that keep the carrier from disabling features in the phone or forcing an update to my phone that is crippled.

    Allows me to use a voip client at a wifi hotspot to circumvent airtime charges.

    there are features on my S60 phone that I dont see anywhere else. If I press end on a ringing call it will SMS that person with a "I'm really busy right now, I'll call you back as soon as I can" That is a ROCKING feature that I dont see on any of these phones.

    Finally scripting. I want scripting on my phone. a sequence to happen when number xx-xxx-xxxx calls me.

    So I choose whatever empowers me and works on my hardware.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:How do I choose? by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2, Informative

      all the features you mentioned are available with windows mobile.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    2. Re:How do I choose? by schmidt349 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That auto-SMS idea is amazing, and one of the reasons why even as an iPhone developer I'm annoyed at Apple for locking us out of making apps to fill in that kind of functionality. I respect that they need to make sure the phone doesn't blow up whatever network it happens to be running on or ring up a $500 bill for the user, but you would think that something that cool would be really trivial to write now that everything else is in place.

      Another idea: why not have the phone give you a couple of options on the auto-SMS that you can write yourself, i.e. "in a meeting right now," "at the theater," "soldering my fingers to the windowsill," or vary the auto-SMS depending on the caller? I don't know if you can roll this kind of functionality yourself on Android, but if you can Apple is going to be sweating bullets in a year or so.

    3. Re:How do I choose? by sonnejw0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why would you want to send an auto-SMS and waste a text message when you don't answer a call? Isn't it implied that if it goes directly to voicemail that I'm busy and I will call back? Are the people that call you really that paranoid that you don't like them that they need an SMS to tell them that you didn't answer your phone but you still want to be friends?

      I mean, sure, it's great that the phone's OS allows that kind of open development and all, but ... honestly?

    4. Re:How do I choose? by ap7 · · Score: 2, Informative

      In S60v3 Nokia phones, when you choose to send the SMS, you are presented with the standard SMS writing interface, with a basic template already filled in saying 'Sorry, I will call later'. Simply press send. If you so choose, you can edit it to whatever you want and then press send. Its been around for a long time and I am kind of surprised other phones still have not copied this.

    5. Re:How do I choose? by SpooForBrains · · Score: 5, Funny

      Windows Mobile is like the two Matrix sequels or the Star Wars prequels. We pretend it doesn't exist.

      --
      "The dew has clearly fallen with a particularly sickening thud this morning"
    6. Re:How do I choose? by PitaBred · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Which is great, as long as the phone is running. In my experience, WinMo phones need a firmware reset every couple of months or else buttons and functions start flaking out, which is completely unacceptable for a phone. It has happened with every WinMo phone I have seen.

      --
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    7. Re:How do I choose? by Late+Adopter · · Score: 2, Informative

      I choose the one that will install on the hardware I own. or the one that has the most pro user functions and anti carrier functions...

      I.E. mp3 ringtones that are not locked out. Backgrounds can be any file I choose to upload to it, same as themes. Give me a way to design and upload a look change without makign the carrier rich.

      All features enabled and systems in place that keep the carrier from disabling features in the phone or forcing an update to my phone that is crippled.

      Allows me to use a voip client at a wifi hotspot to circumvent airtime charges.

      The Palm Pre is what you're looking for (though I don't think there's a voip app yet... just that Palm doesn't have the ability to lock one out when it comes around).

      In all seriousness, I love the philosophy behind my Pre. It doesn't come with an install CD. There's no such thing as "Pre software". It works with internet services and data protocols you already have. Mail, chat, calendar, and contacts sync through Google. All uploads to the phone (ringtones, wallpapers) and downloads from it (photos) are done on a flat file-system on a USB mass storage device (standard USB micro cable, BTW, the same one that powers it). Music goes through iTunes, not some branded "Sprint Pre Jukebox" (yes, they should've used the less proprietary MTP, but you can upload as flat files if you like). Apps can be (and are) created by third parties and installed without Sprint/Palm's approval. Including a bluetooth tethering app.

      Using common preexisting standards. Not creating its own protocols to lock you into their services. All features available and unlocked. Slashdotters should approve of this.

    8. Re:How do I choose? by hardaker · · Score: 3, Funny

      So... In essence you're saying that for WiMo every once in a while you need to format and reinstall? Now... what other OS have I seen that advice attached to before.

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    9. Re:How do I choose? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, it's easy to get away from it, you complain to the regulator that this is price gouging. Of course, that requires you not to have crippled your regulators because they interfere with some quasi-religious view of the free market.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  4. Re:Not a chioce right now by Canazza · · Score: 4, Informative

    the N900 gets released 16th November

    http://www.product-reviews.net/2009/10/22/nokia-n900-uk-release-date-pushed-back-to-november/

    --
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  5. The writer is clueless about end users by InsaneProcessor · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The reason the providers lock the phone to their service (besides profit) is support. They only need to support one variation of the platform. More than that is way too costly. The end user in the U.S. wants support from one place not two. If they didn't do this then the average (idiot) user would hear "this is an issue with your device, contact the manafacturer" and "it is your service provider that is causing your problem, contact them". When you want support, you don't want to chase around to get it.

    --

    Athiesm is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.
    1. Re:The writer is clueless about end users by vadim_t · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There's more than one kind of end user.

      As an end user, and potential programmer for the platform this is precisely the sort of review I wanted. It doesn't work for the non-technical user maybe, but there will be plenty reviews for those.

      Personally as an user I want lack of restrictions and don't give a damn about support -- I've never ever called it for anything I own.

    2. Re:The writer is clueless about end users by JohnFen · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There must be a nontrivial market consisting of people like me who don't care about support as much as they care about functionality.

      The Maemo looks good. It's the first smartphone that I'm actually excited about!

    3. Re:The writer is clueless about end users by BlackCreek · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I second this.

      Most users don't need root, nor have any need for source code access. Most users have access to support from the manufacturer, and are fine with that.

      Judging from this guy's questions, he already had a conclusion, and started asking questions to justify his points of view. The article is flamebait beginning to end. Some notes:

      1. In practice, any Gnome/KDE GUI app will simply not run properly in the display resolution of a phone, and not lend itself well to a touch screen interface. When you want to talk about the great stuff you can do with MAEMO, and you decide to illustrate with XEYES, I say you are out of touch with reality.
      2. Android forces a rewrite of even Java code, but it also provides full application isolation. Nowhere the security advantages of it were considered.
      3. Android is also offered with root access from Google (ADP) and with the Geekphone from Spain. The fact that you can also buy it in a locked state, doesn't disqualify the platform.
      4. As a developer, I also care about the fact that the new MAEMO APIs are scheduled for deprecation before its release. Having a stable, well documented API matters. A lot.

      The N900 will (hopefully) be a great phone, no need to go on bashing the competition in order to promote it.

    4. Re:The writer is clueless about end users by ultrabot · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The Maemo looks good. It's the first smartphone that I'm actually excited about!

      That's because it's the first "phone" that's actually a real computer, not a locked down piece of plastic.

      I just got an N810, and I'm loving it. As a double-plus, you can actually get a used one cheap now that everybody is buying an N900.

      --
      Save your wrists today - switch to Dvorak
    5. Re:The writer is clueless about end users by FictionPimp · · Score: 3, Funny

      Luckily, I was able to find another computer to post from.

      You sir are an asshole. :-p

    6. Re:The writer is clueless about end users by Ptur · · Score: 4, Informative

      Let's correct my support claim a small bit: There is actually good news for the n8x0, it's called Mer (http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer)

    7. Re:The writer is clueless about end users by BlackCreek · · Score: 2, Informative

      As a developer, I also care about the fact that the new MAEMO APIs are scheduled for deprecation before its release. Having a stable, well documented API matters. A lot.

      Please elaborate on this?

      I don't know if things got clearer since this article was written. Anyways, this is what I was referring to:
      """
      Furthermore, the difficulty of the toolkit switch between Fremantle and Harmattan is compounded by the fact that Fremantle will break compatibility with the Maemo 4.x-series, thus forcing two consecutive rewrites onto developers."""

      http://lwn.net/Articles/341391/

    8. Re:The writer is clueless about end users by vadim_t · · Score: 2, Informative

      The way you wrote it makes it sound like the N900 will provide an API that's already scheduled for deprecation. But what the article actually says is that the N900 will use Maemo 5, which won't be backwards with the Maemo 4 used in earlier products.

      I think the "new" word is the confusing part, if you said "the current MAEMO APIs will become deprecated" then it'd have made more sense.

  6. Not really an article by Ash+Vince · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is just a blog by someone unknown that is also very light on facts.

    He seems of the opinion the Maemo owners will be better treated if the root their hardware because Nokia make it slightly easier to do. The problem is that we do not yet know what Nokia will make you agree to in order to install the gain root privileges application. In my opinion they will make you agree to voiding your warranty anyway so that will put you in the same boat as most android owners.

    Even if Nokia do not then most carriers will, and the vast majority of phones are purchased through a carriers discount so the user does not end up paying full price for the handset.

    --
    I dont read /. to RTFA, I read /. to offend people in ignorance.
    1. Re:Not really an article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      The problem is that we do not yet know what Nokia will make you agree to in order to install the gain root privileges application

      Using Maemo 4 running on a Nokia N810 (the predecessor to the N900) as an example, the exact disclaimer is:

      Nokia has neither created nor delivered this software and is therefore unable to guarantee that the software will not harm your device. Installation will be at your own risk. Continue anyway. Ok/Cancel

      My experience with the N810 indicates that the Maemo system is extremely open. It's not merely slightly easier to get root access, it is significantly easier compared with jail-breaking an iPhone or hacking root onto an Android device. It is literally installing a third-party package (either gainroot or openssh) via the usual GUI package manager and takes a couple of minutes. Your data is not wiped, nor will your root-access be revoked upon the next firmware upgrade (which doesn't wipe your data either on the N900).

    2. Re:Not really an article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      It only provides a warning that you may damage your device and does not mention breaking a warranty, EULA, TOS, etc...

      It's also worth noting that the warning links directly to the instructions for reflashing the device (with the obvious caveat that any data that isn't backed up will be lost). So even if you shoot yourself in the foot as root, they're more than happy to point your toward the stack of bandages in the corner.

    3. Re:Not really an article by markkezner · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Light on facts, but also seems to have a viewpoint to push. TFA points out that the Android Java VM (Dalvik) is nonstandard, giving it all the associated stigma that a free software oriented audience would perceive. He also claims that this will somehow lock you in to Google's web apps:

      ... forced to use Java with non-standard bytecode. One might even suggest that Google has done this on purpose, in order to limit interoperability and push users towards its proprietary web services.

      How Dalvik or its bytecode would accomplish this feat is left to the imagination. Anyone wanna clear this up for me?

      I posted a response in TFA that points out that the Dalvik VM is also free software licensed under Apache 2.0

      Source Code for Dalvik VM
      Apache 2.0 License, embedded in Dalvik source repository.

      --
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  7. Re:maymo? memo? meemo? by maxume · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Pronounce it 'Nokia smartphone'.

    --
    Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  8. Re:Not a chioce right now by nirjhari · · Score: 2, Informative

    On their website, Nokia says "end of October": http://store.nokia.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/productdetail_10500_10101_-1_10000367

  9. I'm so indecisive by rwa2 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I pre-ordered my N900 through Amazon a few weeks back. I figured it'd be easier to get Android working under Maemo than the other way around.

    Also, Maemo has a pretty long history of development. I was actually planning on buying an N810 a few months ago until I found out that the N900 might actually have a decent GPS.

    Plus, Android phones will be cheap and easy to come by... so hopefully I'll get one for my wife and get to play with it there. But what I've always really wanted in my pocket was a little debian box, and the N900 is pretty much the first thing that fits the bill in that respect. I could care less about the smartphone bit, other than the network connectivity, and of course the fact that I shouldn't need to carry a separate mobile phone around with me anymore.

    I played around with Familiar linux (from http://handhelds.org/ ) on an old IPaq for a while, but it was always a bit frustrating that the hardware support wasn't completely there. So it shouldn't be too hard for Nokia to improve upon that experience :P

    I really do hope Google caves in to the demand for a native google maps / google earth application on the Maemo, though.

  10. Re:Not a chioce right now by Verdatum · · Score: 2, Informative

    That's the UK release date. For US, it's supposedly the end of October, but I'll believe it when I see it.

  11. Re:Send to voice mail by Sparr0 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    screw "send to voice mail". I want the phone to *PICK UP*, play one of a selection of pre-recorded messages, and then allow the caller to press a button if they really really want to interrupt, or answer the question in the message. 200MHz on an ARM is plenty of power to implement this.

  12. Don't forget Palm's WebOS!!! by SCHecklerX · · Score: 3, Informative

    - unfettered access to the linux subsystem (ie, need adblocking? You can replace /etc/hosts with an ad/malware blocking version! You can patch many aspects of the phone this way, go check out the patches on precentral)

    - if you are a web developer (html, css, javascript), you already know how to write code for this phone. It's that easy. The SDK is freely available, and RUNS FINE ON LINUX. No need to keep a windows box around just to write some phone apps.

    - like all the other apps, controlling the US is also done via javascript. Many features can be unlocked just by uncommenting some code.

    - and for just plain old users... the interface is very clean, consistent, and beautiful. It stays out of your way. Some of the included apps aren't as powerful as they maybe should be, but that is what the openness of the phone and the homebrew community is for.

    1. Re:Don't forget Palm's WebOS!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Maemo has all of this, with the added advantage that you don't have to write applications in an arcane scripting language unless you really want to.

    2. Re:Don't forget Palm's WebOS!!! by ianare · · Score: 3, Interesting

      WebOS is definitly a step up in terms of freedom and ease of development compared to anything out there today. It's biggest problem is a lack of apps. This is where maemo really shines, any linux app can be ported with minimal effort, in most cases it's just a few UI changes.

  13. Android and what? by mafian911 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This article seems to push pretty hard for an OS that hasn't been getting a whole lot of press. That being said, I'm not sure Maemo is in a position to take on Android.

    First, consider the fact that "anything that can run on a desktop can run on Maemo". This sounds like an incredible freedom, but it makes me wonder how much care and innovation went into their mobile framework for developers. Android goes out of its way to provide access to everything a mobile developer would care about: text messaging, the camera, open GL surfaces, the sensor controls... even core functionality can be completely replaced. Want a new home screen? Want a new dialer? Their Activity and Intent framework is very well designed to accomplish anything you may want to accomplish on a *mobile device*. If the Maemo is all about putting a desktop computer in your pocket, I'm not sure how convenient that will be for mobile developers.

    Second, consider market penetration. Android is showing up everywhere: phones big and small, net books, GPS devices and e-book readers. Maemo is on one device. Nokias phone. Sure, it may end up on more devices in the future, but will any of these devices *not* be a Nokia? Maybe. Google has done a lot of pushing, however, to give Android visibility. Google has done a lot to cater to developers. They even went as far as releasing the operating system and an emulator for developers to get started before an actual device ever hit the market. Android is going to see more market penetration than Maemo, if not only because Google is going out of its way to make it accessible.

    Third, what does their content model look like? Do they have a market application? How difficult is it for developers to publish apps? How do they safeguard against malicious software? Android has a very accessible market. Securing their very open market is a strong permission model, which allows developers to write the code they want to write, without getting their hands slapped (unlike the iPhone experience). I don't know what content model is in store for Maemo, but it will need to be equally well thought out.

    In conclusion, I applaud Nokia for taking one further step in the direction of openness. But I'm not convinced that Maemo can stand up to Android. "Super open!" and "desktop like!" aren't going to win the mobile war.

  14. Re:Send to voice mail by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Can land lines receive SMS where you live?

    I don't know about now, because I haven't had a landline for a while, but they definitely could back in 2005. The text of the message was read out by a voice synthesiser and you had the option to replay it when you received an SMS. This is in the UK, so it may be different in other places. They occasionally get celebrities to record the voice samples used for the synthesis. For a while, Tom Baker was doing the voice, so it sounded like you were being sent a message by The Doctor.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  15. Maemo wins hands down by the+ReviveR · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From my personal opinion Android simply doesn't stand a chance. While Android does run Linux kernel it doesn't have X Window etc. It's glorified java platform that doesn't even support full java spec. You can do anything with it, but things will take a lot of work.

    Maemo on the other hand is what I see as a 'real' Linux platform running software stack which makes it pretty trivial to port existing apps to it.

    Stuff I currently run on my N810:
    -Real browser looking firefox with flash support
    -MPlayer for playing nearly any format I can throw at it...
    -Gnumeric for spreadsheets
    -Battle for Wesnoth, Beneath the steel sky, Duke Nukem 3D when I feel like playing something
    -Vnc server & client
    -Gjiten for translating stuff to Japanese. Japanese symbols display nicely etc.

    Only thing I'm really missing is the phone functionality. Even if the only improvement to N900 would be adding that, I would be happy. Adding processing power etc. makes it a must buy for me.

    1. Re:Maemo wins hands down by demachina · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think Google is designing phones for ordinary people to use. 99.99% of cell phone users don't give a rats ass about most of the things on your list. I grew up on X11 but I can see no good rationale for putting it on a mobile device for ordinary people to use.

      I imagine some people want Flash in a browser but Android is adding that. Me personally I suspect Flash on a mobile device will just drain the battery, hog the CPU and memory and make browsing generally sluggish up to the point your battery is dead. Might be OK if you are plugged in to a wall socket 90% of the time but at that points its not really mobile anymore is it. Video is the only compelling reason to have Flash, unless you have a taste for stupid Flash sprite games. Video in a mobile device would better be done by an optimized player in hardware like iPhone does on YouTube or like you could have with HTML/5. Unfortunately this requires the web to stop being so Flash centric.

      I doubt anyone really cares about Firefox. They want a browser that works and ViewKit or Opera is just as good or probably better in a mobile device than Firefox.

      MPlayer might be worthwhile but everyone has video players of one degree of quality and performance or another.

      I think I'm saying that everything about this thread coming from Maemo fanboys, including the original article, is probably an advertisement for why Android will win in the real world, while Maemo will thrive in the tiny little niche of open source fanatics, that the rest of the world is mostly indifferent to. Not to mention Maemo is locking you in to one hardware manufacturer and an incredibly small range of hardware, while Android is now on dozens of different platforms. How exactly is that freedom.....

      --
      @de_machina
    2. Re:Maemo wins hands down by randomlogin · · Score: 2, Informative

      I agree that a full blown desktop/server JVM would be OTT. The CDC (connected device configuration) profile is designed for devices which are smarter than the bog-standard Java-ME phone, but not up to running a full SE stack. Have a look at the overview here. A cut and paste of the 'target devices' section:

      The CDC configuration was designed to bring the many advantages of the Java platform to a broad range of network-connected consumer and embedded devices, including smart communicators, high-end PDAs, and set-top boxes.

      Devices that support CDC typically include a 32-bit microprocessor/controller and make about 2 MB of RAM and 2.5 MB of ROM available to the Java application environment.

      What's more, the open source implementation released by Sun has an excellent ARM targeted JIT compiler. All in all, apart from the out of date GUI implementation (QT3 based) it would be an ideal Java platform for something like the N900.

  16. the "freedoms" by nimbius · · Score: 2, Interesting

    are an illusion. so long as either device you buy is tied to a draconian carrier its just another big ass phone screwing up the line of my pants and sucking down 5 hours worth of charge time in 3 days. the phones may be free, but their features, options and abilities will quickly be restricted at the carrier level.

    A phone with freedoms is a phone that doesnt require service contracts or "new every 2" plans for hardware. Its also a phone that lets you question and subvert greedy carrier tactics and, god forbid, gauge and monitor a carriers network performance independently from their own claims of most reliable and most coverage. buy either one, but remember the freedom stops after the transceiver driver comes up.

    --
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    1. Re:the "freedoms" by PeterBrett · · Score: 2, Informative

      the "freedoms" are an illusion. so long as either device you buy is tied to a draconian carrier its just another big ass phone screwing up the line of my pants and sucking down 5 hours worth of charge time in 3 days. the phones may be free, but their features, options and abilities will quickly be restricted at the carrier level.

      A phone with freedoms is a phone that doesnt require service contracts or "new every 2" plans for hardware. Its also a phone that lets you question and subvert greedy carrier tactics and, god forbid, gauge and monitor a carriers network performance independently from their own claims of most reliable and most coverage. buy either one, but remember the freedom stops after the transceiver driver comes up.

      So, since you can buy an N900 without a carrier contract, it's your dream phone, right?

      On the other hand, the contract I'm getting with my N900 gives me unlimited data transfer, unlimited SMS and a big chunk of free talk time. So I'm not particularly worried about "sucking down 5 hours worth of charge time in 3 days." Believe me that if my carrier tries to restrict the capabilities of the phone, it'll be returned to them before you can say "Jack Rabbit" -- and they'll have to take it back.

      But I guess you should ignore me; my lack of a tinfoil hat probably means that I'm imagining all that due to the brainwashing mind control beams irradiating my brain. Enjoy your paranoia!

      --
      Pirate Party UK
  17. Win Mobile features by js_sebastian · · Score: 5, Insightful

    all the features you mentioned are available with windows mobile.

    Additionally, you get a lot of nice extra features, like random restarts, battery monitor that always reports full battery, battery that lasts 1 full day when you're lucky, touchscreen that sometimes responds to your touch (sometimes even to do what you want it to do!), apps that cost much more than I am willing to pay and don't do what I need, plus a generally clunky and inconsistent UI.

    I have a windows mobile phone and I will NEVER make that mistake again.

    And before I get flamed: I know, many of the problems I have are specific to the device, not to windows mobile, so I have also blacklisted LG for my next purchase. Still, the OS makes you feel like it's windows 98 all over *shiver*.

  18. Re:Why does T-Mobile suck? There's a map for that. by mftb · · Score: 2, Informative

    Ringtones are not public performances. Here, have an article from an obviously biased but generally honest source: http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/10/court-rules-phones-ringing-public-dont-infringe-co

  19. Use of X servers on phones... by Tetsujin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yes, it really sucks to have a mature system that supports remote display (want to run CPU-intensive apps elsewhere and display on your portable? Want to run apps on the portable and display them on a bigger screen?), is compatible with most UNIX GUI software written since the mid '80s, supports compositing, OpenGL, accelerated text rendering, and cleanly separates policy and mechanism so that window and compositing management can be easily swapped out and replaced.

    You know, I am generally happiest when my machine is running an X server as the native environment - things just felt too awkward trying to run X apps on Mac OS X for instance - and I don't think X is as bad as people make it out to be...

    But, on the other hand, I have to say, remote display really is not a priority for me on my phone at all. :) It might be fun to play with from time to time but in general it's not something I think I need.

    Compatibility would probably be the main reason I'd appreciate Maemo's X server. One of the things that always drives me crazy with PalmOS is that it was always so much damn work to port things to it. Some of this work is unavoidable - when you're working with a small touchscreen display as your main interface, some of the UI assumptions that would go with a 1600x1200 display with a three-button mouse don't apply... To have a reasonable UI it has to be tailored to fit the small display and the precision limitations that go with a touchscreen (especially a resistive touchscreen operated without a stylus...)

    --
    Bow-ties are cool.
  20. Re:No lawsuits? by DesertBlade · · Score: 3, Informative

    Hey AC, The lawsuit was a cease a desist on including copyrighted software in his releases. Namely Gmail and other Google Apps.

    --
    Half of writing history is hiding the truth.
  21. Kind of an interesting metric. by LWATCDR · · Score: 4, Insightful

    None of the metrics really have anything to do with the average user.
    1. Freedom from crashes. random, and forced resets.
    2. Freedom to find the applications that I want to run without having to write them myself.
    3. Freedom from having to learn a complex and inconsistent UI.

    Most smart phone users really want and need a good smart phone first. Most users will never want to root the phone. How free and open a consumer software system is of little concern if it is not functional. I would love to see Android and Maemo put in the hands of a new smart phone users that doesn't know FOSS or the GPL from a hole in the ground just to see how functional they are. I would also like to see a comparison of the SDKs from a programmers point of view. Finally we can talk about how "free" they are. All of that is important but usability really is very important and it wasn't talked about in this story at all.

    I have yet to play with Maemo but my next phone will probably be an Android device. I don't want to be on the AT&T network so the iPhone is out. WinMo doesn't really thrill me, and the PalmOS still lacks voice dialing and video recording. My wife loves her PalmPre but I am disappointed with the SDK and the fact that it still lacks video recording and voice dialing! MY STINKING SANYO FEATURE PHONE CAN SHOOT VIDEO AND DO VOICE DIALING.
    Right now I am torn between the Samsung Moment and the HTC Hero I just hope that we see them get 1.6 and 2.0 updates very soon.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  22. Re:Javascript as a mobile device's ABI? by glop · · Score: 2, Informative

    You know, it's just one trade-off and it might not be much worse than linking C++ dynamically... Or Jitting Java byte code.

    I have owned an Agenda VR3 and a Zaurus. I can tell you that there are many ways to wast CPU cycles and that in any case it takes effort to avoid them. The Agenda guys spent a lot of time trying to optimize the binaries and resolve issues caused by C++. They might have had an easier time coding in Python and avoiding C++. Or not. It's a complex issue, so it's hard to say even now after the dust has settled.

    I don't think there is any silver bullet nor that Javascript, Dalvik or C++ are bad per se. What matters is the effort that the makers put into integrating the software and the hardware, testing, optimizing etc.

    The Pre uses the V8 Javascript engine and it might be more efficient to jit a few tens of lines of Javascript than to link a C++ binary with all kinds of libraries (say stdc++, qt, X11 etc.).

    Also, I remember that programming in GFA Basic and running the programs on my 8MHz Atari was quite fast actually. So why would it be such a mistake on Palm's part to use Javascript on a machine that is about 500 times faster (the fastest instruction took 4 clock cycles on the 68k)?

    I think the Pre is really interesting as almost everything in it is Open Source (V8, Webkit, Linux etc.), based on standards (HTML, Javascript). Also people seem to be able to compare it with the iPhone without laughing so it must be a rather good integration of hardware and software too...

    Anyway just my 2 cents and an occasion to fondly remember the gadgets of my youth ;-)

  23. Re:Not a chioce right now by hardaker · · Score: 2, Informative

    Sadly, I think it's November for everywhere.

    http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=355093&postcount=423

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  24. Re:Javascript is the universal scripting language by Tetsujin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Built in on Windows, MacOS.
    Built in on every web browser.
    Built in on virtually all smartphones.
    Available as Spidermonkey on Unix systems.

    It's pretty much everywhere already. It'll replace most of the others; perl, python, ruby as the libraries and VMs available for it improve.

    That's a lovely poem. Really. The Vogons would absolutely hate it.

    Being a good scripting language is all well and good. That doesn't make said scripting language a good choice for an embedded platform.

    --
    Bow-ties are cool.