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Apple Says Booting OS X Makes an Unauthorized Copy

recoiledsnake writes "Groklaw has an extensive look at the latest developments in the Psystar vs. Apple story. There's a nice picture illustrating the accusation by Apple that Psystar makes three unauthorized copies of OS X. The most interesting, however, is the last copy. From Apple's brief: 'Finally, every time Psystar turns on any of the Psystar computers running Mac OS X, which it does before shipping each computer, Psystar necessarily makes a separate modified copy of Mac OS X in Random Access Memory, or RAM. This is the third unlawful copy.' Psystar's response: 'Copying a computer program into RAM as a result of installing and running that program is precisely the copying that Section 117 provides does not constitute copyright infringement for an owner of a computer program. As the Ninth Circuit explained, permitting copies like this was Section 117's purpose.' Is Apple seriously arguing that installing a third party program and booting OS X results in copyright infringement due to making a derivative work and an unauthorized copy?"

65 of 865 comments (clear)

  1. Unauthoriazed Copy by fidget42 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Is Apple seriously arguing that installing a third party program and booting OS X results in copyright infringement due to making a derivative work and an unauthorized copy?

    I think what they are saying is that everytime you run an unauthorized copy of a program, you infringe its copyright.

    --
    The dogcow says "Moof!"
    1. Re:Unauthoriazed Copy by sopssa · · Score: 5, Informative

      On top of that Apple has a good case here because Blizzard already won similar argument before

      Blizzard won on two arguments: first, that if a game is loaded into RAM, that can be considered an unauthorized copy of the game and as such a breach of copyright; second, that selling Glider was interfering with Blizzard's contractual relationship with its customers.

    2. Re:Unauthoriazed Copy by BlueBoxSW.com · · Score: 3, Informative

      I agree, "unauthorized copy" is the key concept here.

      I hate how slashdot posts these half baked articles.

      What is this, the Drudge Report?

    3. Re:Unauthoriazed Copy by dontmakemethink · · Score: 5, Funny

      Careful, you just made an unauthorized copy of a registered trademark on my monitor!

      --

      War as we knew it was obsolete
      Nothing could beat complete denial
      - Emily Haines
    4. Re:Unauthoriazed Copy by prockcore · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'd rephrase that to say Apple has an effective case... because I certainly wouldn't call what they're doing "good".

    5. Re:Unauthoriazed Copy by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think what they are saying is that everytime you run an unauthorized copy of a program, you infringe its copyright.

      This, in fact, is the logical consequence of the absurdity that is "copyright". Ultimately, when you look at something, the photons bouncing off its surface (a copy) enter your retinas whereby they trigger electro-chemical impulses (a copy) in your receptor cells and travel down axons to other cells (a copy) and end up bouncing around your brain (multiple copies).

      As one can easily see, the argument of "unauthorized copies" in any medium, once precedents are established (as they already apparently are), must logically lead to convictions for "unauthorized copies" in your mind (also known as "illegal thoughts"). Otherwise some "copies" are unequal to others based on arbitrary rules pulled out of some law-monkey's ass.

      This will become even more apparent once technology advances to the point where computer/brain integration will become feasible and deployed on a large scale in form of mind-enhancing implants, thus blurring the distinction between a "copy" in one's brain or one's implants.

      Copyrights (as all so-called "Intellectual Property") are illogical, nonsensical make-believe results of greed overpowering common sense and as the time goes on and technology progresses, their utterly moronic nature will only become more and more odiously apparent.

    6. Re:Unauthoriazed Copy by bahamat · · Score: 4, Informative

      This goes back to the 80's, or possibly even 70's and deals with how computers work on a fundamental level. As you know, copyright means that the rights holder is the only one allowed to authorize copies. When a program runs, it is copied from the storage medium (i.e., disk, but back then it was tape) and into RAM. That's a copy. Copyright law was modified to explicitly permit these types of copies (I believe they are termed "transient copies") for license holders.

      Apple's argument goes back to this statute. Apple's license says that you can only run Mac OS X on Apple hardware. Thus, the copy from disk to RAM on non-Apple hardware is an unauthorized copy.

      It makes sense, from a letter-of-the-law point of view, and I find it very interesting because by and large nobody thinks about software copying in that sense anymore, but back in the day it was a very hot issue. I'm not saying I endorse this argument, but IIRC, this is how the law is written. Also, IANAL, so if you want to know more about this, go look it up yourself.

    7. Re:Unauthoriazed Copy by IntlHarvester · · Score: 4, Informative

      The two copies here (and the one on psystar's server) are not.

      And that's the key point. Psystar admitted to using disk duplication software to install OS X, which is almost assuredly a violation of copyright law. (PC OEMs and corporations need to obtain an special licence from Microsoft to do this.) After that it doesn't really matter how many additional copies were made.

      Plus, Apple's legal strategy here is "throw the book at them" -- including traditional copyright, EULAs, derivative works, DMCA, trademarks, and patents. I wouldn't read too much into any particular argument, Apple will find something that sticks.

      --
      Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
    8. Re:Unauthoriazed Copy by Alien+Being · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Peak Computer, Inc. had a business repairing MAI's Basic/4 computers and MAI got pissy about the "lost" service revenue.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAI_Systems_Corp._v._Peak_Computer,_Inc.

      It was that case that made it illegal to load copyrighted software into RAM without a license.

      Before that, the legality was unclear and there were many heavy-handed lawsuits brought by manufacturers (including MAI) against 3rd party service companies.

      Long after it mattered to either of them the court decided that it was ok to boot the system in order to repair it. Peak was never depriving MAI of any software sales, they were preventing MAI from using their software licenses to lock customers into their service contracts.

      Similarly, Psystar isn't depriving Apple of any software sales but the are preventing Apple from using their software licenses to lock customers into their own brand of hardware.

      Fuck Apple.

    9. Re:Unauthoriazed Copy by mysidia · · Score: 3, Informative

      Capitalizing it or not has no significance.

      Yes it can be. BSD licenses allow software to be restricted in it's use but the BSD is still open source, notice I did not capitalize "open" or "source".

      You're using a strawman argument, and you're completely wrong. The BSD license allows me to take the source, modify it, and give you source code with a restriction that you may not use it in a certain way, for example, I may include a restriction that you may not modify the code or re-publish parts of it.

      In that case, the code I received under BSD license is open source, the code I gave you is not open source, because of the additional restrictions I have imposed.

      If I take BSD licensed code and give you only binaries (but no source) or add restrictions to the license, such as "You may not use this for commercial purposes", or "You are only allowed to run this program on fridays", or "You may not create derivative works, or republish this code",

      Then the code I gave you is not open source software.

    10. Re:Unauthoriazed Copy by Lord+Kano · · Score: 3, Informative

      When Jobs came, one of the first things he did was up the major version number from 7 to 8 because the license for Mac OS 7 allowed third parties to make computers that could run Mac OS.

      Thus fucking over millions of customers and potential customers in the process.

      It's just my guess but I think the reason Apple is doing this because some of the price that goes into it's computers is the price of developing the operating system.

      That's precisely why each licensee had to pay Apple a fee. If they weren't getting enough, they could have negotiated a higher fee.

      If Psystar wins this case, it will give a carte blanche to everybody else to create Mac clones, bringing Apple back into the situation they were in in 1998.

      Hardly. Apple would be in a worse situation. In the late 90s they had fairly unique hardware. The only affordable PPC computers were either an Apple or a clone. Today, their hardware is custom x86. Everyone and their brother is making hardware that could run the OS if not for Apple's artificial barrier.

      Personally I'm rooting for Apple on this one. It's their business model, and it has benefits for their users.

      Apple is certainly entitled to try whatever business model they choose, but the are not entitled to have the courts enforce their wishes to make higher profits.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    11. Re:Unauthoriazed Copy by MobyDisk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Personally I'm rooting for Apple on this one. It's their business model, and it has benefits for their users.

      Don't do that. You are rooting for someone to win not based on the merits of their arguments, but because you like them and think the other side are jerks. That's very dangerous.

  2. Litigated before by metaomni · · Score: 5, Informative

    This has actually been litigated before -- as crazy as it sounds, courts HAVE consistently held that booting a computer (and thus loading it to memory) does create a copy. End-users are granted a license to do so, and here Pystar doesn't have such a license. Crazy yes -- but Apple is on solid precedential ground in claiming so.

    1. Re:Litigated before by recoiledsnake · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This has actually been litigated before -- as crazy as it sounds, courts HAVE consistently held that booting a computer (and thus loading it to memory) does create a copy. End-users are granted a license to do so, and here Pystar doesn't have such a license. Crazy yes -- but Apple is on solid precedential ground in claiming so.

      Really? From their Snow Leopard EULA:

      A. Single Use License. Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, unless you have purchased a Family Pack or Ugrade License for the Apple Software, you are granted a limited non-exclusive license to install, use and run one (1) copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-branded computer at a time.

      Looks like Apple doesn't grant you a license to make another copy(as they argue you do by booting). If Apple wins this, can they successfully sue their customers for making unauthorized copies when the computer boots?

      --
      This space for rent.
    2. Re:Litigated before by Mr2001 · · Score: 3, Informative

      This has actually been litigated before -- as crazy as it sounds, courts HAVE consistently held that booting a computer (and thus loading it to memory) does create a copy.

      Yes, but...

      End-users are granted a license to do so, and here Pystar doesn't have such a license. Crazy yes -- but Apple is on solid precedential ground in claiming so.

      No. Like Psystar said, 17 USC 117 grants the owner of a copy of a program the right to make copies or adaptations as needed to run it. You don't need a license from the copyright holder; copyright law itself gives you that right.

      And before you respond with "it's licensed, not sold": (1) if you purchase a DVD containing a copy of OS X, you own a copy -- that's what owning a copy means; (2) most courts have found that software is actually sold, not licensed, regardless of what the company "licensing" it wants you to think.

      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
  3. Groklaw going down the drain by recoiledsnake · · Score: 3, Informative

    Groklaw and PJ seem to have turned the site into a slanted conspiracy site. She was insinuating that MS could be likely behind Psystar(why would MS risk invalidating EULAs on which their cash cows thrive?). Even in this article, PJ doesn't seem to defend the freedoms that she seems to hold dear in her Linux vs. SCO articles. Infact she seems to hold the DMCA dear and Groklaw has gone from giving a nice objective look at things to becoming like BoycottNovell, which is another site operating on anti-MS-at-all-costs grounds. She even fails to highlight the egregious abuse of copyright law that Apple is trying here which would ruin freedom to even run a program without paying for double licences. In fact she appears to side with Apple on this.

    --
    This space for rent.
  4. Old idea by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 3, Informative

    Actually, wasn't the idea that copying a program from disk to RAM need specific permission, something that was ruled on very long ago?

    I remember having a serious WTF feeling maybe 10 years ago when reading about a judge's ruling.

  5. Unauthorized by Alrescha · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Is Apple seriously arguing that installing a third party program and booting OS X results in copyright infringement due to making a derivative work and an unauthorized copy?"

    Since Apple's license for OS X says that it can only be run on Apple hardware, the in-memory copy is just as unauthorized as the rest of them.

    A.

    --
    ...bringing you cynical quips since 1998
    1. Re:Unauthorized by MakinBacon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But why should users need Apple's permission to install OSX on any computer they want? They payed for it, and they are not distributing unauthorized copies to other people, so I don't see why Apple should have any legal right to dictate how users can use it. Imagine if Microsoft decreed that the only browser Windows users can install is Explorer because they never authorized Firefox. That would be the same kind of twisted logic that Apple is trying to employ.

    2. Re:Unauthorized by kimvette · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They, like the media conglomerates (RIAA and MPAA), are trying to change what copyright law actually is.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    3. Re:Unauthorized by Mista2 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Unless by monopoly you mean the only computers legally allowed to run OS X and the applications written to run under OS X.
      When you have monopolies, you have price gouging.
      EyeTV ship a Haupage USB digital TV encoder, that costs twice as much as a similar Haupage encoder for Windows. I have a Logitec web cam I stupidly bought as this version was OS X supported, not knowing it was exactly the same under the white plastic as the black one sold for Windows that was $50 cheaper. Odd that Logitec feel they should charge more for supplying a web cam with no drivers (OS X sees it fine) as opposed to the Windows one which does actually come with some nice extra Windows features.

  6. My brain hurts, Steve! by MsGeek · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is pretzel logic at its worst. Memo to Apple: build a machine that has a price point between the Mac mini and Mac Pro, that isn't an all-in-one machine, and is internally expandable, and people will buy that machine from YOU rather than buy a PC and make a Hackintosh. People know the difference between a Mac and a crappy PC. They know that the Mac will be the better quality machine. They will pay more -- not a King's Ransom, but modestly more -- for Apple quality. This is why the MacBook has pwn3d most lappies for years, and why the MacBook Pro is the best damn lappie experience currently available. Build something BETTER for a little more than a Dell or a HP or a Compaq and you will have the business back. I guarantee it.

    --
    Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
    1. Re:My brain hurts, Steve! by outZider · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You are completely not their target market. Apparently, you want a two inch thick laptop that runs Linux and KDE. There are plenty of them. Buy them.

      --
      - oZ
      // i am here.
    2. Re:My brain hurts, Steve! by tonywestonuk · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If I buy a book, I can legally do whatever I want with it. Read it, shred it, use it for toilet paper. If I then choose to sell the remains of the book, That I can also do this legally...just so long as I do not copy it (copyright infringement). If I buy a legal boxed copy OS X, then I should have the same rights to do as I please, which includes installing it on my own hardware regardless of it been an Apple branded box or not.

    3. Re:My brain hurts, Steve! by Toonol · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's Apple's OS, they developed it, spend years and millions of $$$ making it - why shouldn't they be allowed to say what machines can and can't run it?

      Because the COPY of the OS the customer purchased is OWNED by the customer. They can do whatever they want with it, short of redistributing copies. It should be no different than if I bought a book; I could quote from it, cross out lines, and even read it back to front if I wanted. Yes, I know that the courts don't treat it the same; that's because the courts are wrong.

      These arguments about "I'd buy a Mac if it had exactly X configuration, but seeing as they don't I'll just pirate it on my own system" have absolutely zero merit.

      I absolutely agree. But the argument "I own a copy of the OS, and I own a computer with exactly X configuration, so I'm going to put my copy of the OS on my computer" DOES have merit.

    4. Re:My brain hurts, Steve! by Vexorian · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yay! Analogy time! I made the keyboard you are using right now, I invested my $$$ making it, and regardless of whether you paid it or not, I am going to forbid you from using it to type your pro apple opinion, if you do, I won't just get mad at you and promise not to sell you a keyboard again, but I will send you to hail for copyrite infrigement!11

      --

      Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
    5. Re:My brain hurts, Steve! by Mr2001 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What Psystar is doing here is the equivalent of copying the book, slapping on a different cover, and selling it for profit.

      No... it's the equivalent of buying a book, slapping on a different cover, and selling it for profit.

      It's not like reselling a book, or installing Mac OS X on your personal hackintosh.

      On the contrary, that is exactly what it's like. Check your facts. Psystar resells copies of OS X that they purchased; they don't make their own copies. And the same law that gives you the right to install your copy of OS X on your personal hackintosh also gives you the right to authorize someone else (like Psystar) to do it on your behalf.

      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
  7. Psystar is 100% wrong by Senjutsu · · Score: 4, Informative

    The Supreme Court indicated in Eldred v. Ashcroft that it was comfortable with the view that Copyright governs even private copying like moving a programs bits from a CD to hard disk or from hard disk to RAM. This is a legally settled matter, and Psystar is quite wrong.

    1. Re:Psystar is 100% wrong by Nerdfest · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If that was the ruling, then the law, or its interpretation are quite wrong. Just because it's the law doesn't make it right.

    2. Re:Psystar is 100% wrong by Senjutsu · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, but Apple is making their argument in a court of Law, not a court of Nebulously Undefined Rights and Wrongs.

      The current law is the current law, and Apple is legally correct. If you believe that the current law is not optimal, that's a matter to take up with the legislature. Arguing that the lawyers and courts are wrong for following the law is downright silly.

    3. Re:Psystar is 100% wrong by tjstork · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Pystar isn't wrong, just illegal.

      --
      This is my sig.
  8. Re:Anyone surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Apple is being paid for every copy of OS X. Perhaps they should stop selling OS X as a full standalone product then? I don't think Apple has a right to say what piece of hardware you can run OS X on. It's paid for, end of story.

    When everyone else tries to lock stuff down we scream about how evil and greedy they are. But when it comes to Apple, it's different somehow? Apple is just as greedy and as "evil" as Microsoft. They're out to make money just like everyone else.

  9. Apple owners would make same unauthorized copies by leftie · · Score: 3, Informative

    Seems like Apple hardware owners would be making the same unauthorized copies when they boot their computers.

    If I'm I'm Psystar's legal team, I'd argue they make the same unauthorized copies that Apple's hardware owners make. If the Psystar process makes unauthorized copies, then Apple's does too.

  10. Re:Anyone surprised? by lukas84 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Doesn't Apple just sell upgrade licenses at retail?

    At least that's how i understood it. And the other licenses are locked to the hardware - just like Microsoft's OEM licenses.

  11. Not all that controversial by russotto · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The copy loaded into RAM is not infringement according to 17 USC 117, but that only holds if the copy being loaded _from_ is a legal copy. So if the copy Psystar loads onto the hard drive is unlawful, the copy in RAM is a further unlawful copy. That's not controversial (as a matter of law, anyway; it's pretty stupid as a matter of fact) and not really central to Apple's case.

    1. Re:Not all that controversial by russotto · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As I have posted before, what's to stop Apple from successfully claiming that their customers are making modifications(and hence derivative copies) to the OS by installing programs and drivers and then making an unauthorized copy by booting it? Their EULA says only one copy is allowed.

      Nothing, if EULAs are upheld as overriding the sale of the software; that road leads to all sorts of absurd and obscene consequences. But Apple's argument against Psystar doesn't require EULAs to be valid.

  12. Someone has to pay for Steve Jobs' livers... by Dunbal · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Uh oh. Imagine, if Apple wins this, then REMEMBERING A SONG OR THINKING ABOUT A MOVIE SCENE will have the MAFIAA at your door in a flash, since after all you made an "illegal copy" in your brain...

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  13. Re:Apple owners would make same unauthorized copie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Apple hardware owner make *authorized* copies, because those copies are allowed within the terms of license Apple grants. Pystar customers are *not* covered by that license and therefore are making *unauthorized* copies.

    I think it might be silly to argue that ephemeral copies constitute copyright infringement, but there is clearly a distinction between authorized and unauthorized copies that comes down right where Apple says it does.

  14. That might be irrelevant by rakslice · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Here's my understanding of the situation: In both the Glider case and this one, we're talking about the original software being loaded into RAM potentially with third-party modifications to parts of it. This means that, even if the original software (the WoW client, and Mac OS X) was bought and paid for, and a RAM copy at runtime would be subject to the section 117 exception, there is room to argue that what is being loaded is not the bought and paid for authorized copy, but an unauthorized derivative work made by adding the third party modifications.

    However, the section 117 exception gives a specific reason that the software might be allowed to be altered. Take a look (from http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/usc_sec_17_00000117----000-.html ):

    "Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided:
    (1) that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other manner, or [...]"

    So an "adaptation" of the software is allowed if it is necessary to use the software with a machine. Now a court could easily whinge its way around interpreting this as a compatibility measure, but if it doesn't, then in Psystar's case, as long as the third-party modifications are deemed by the court to be only for the purpose of enabling Mac OS X to run on a general purpose PC, then the RAM copy (and potentially all the modified copies) aren't infringing.

    Anyway, I don't think this is a big obstacle to Apple; there seems to be enough case law in the US that has allowed for very broad enforceability of software licensing agreements that Apple can still probably out-lawyer Psystar into the dust for breaking their "Apple-labeled" license provision, even without a finding of copyright infringement.

    It's that part of the case I'm most interested in, as "Apple-labeled" is a strange choice of wording, and Apple has in the past employed it willy-nilly (for instance in the license of Safari for Windows when they pushed out millions of copies as a selected-by-default Quicktime/iTunes upgrade [http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9904445-7.html])

    1. Re:That might be irrelevant by Artraze · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As I recall, the Glider decision actual is more disturbing. Essentially, they sidestepped section 117 altogether and basically said that the RAM copy is a full blown copy, and is only made legally because the ELUA allows such use. As Glider violated the EULA, making a RAM copy of WoW infringed on Blizzard's copyright.

      So not only is making a RAM copy infringement (without a license) ELUA's are also implicitly upheld. Lovely.

      On somewhat unrelated, but interesting note: Now that SSDs (and, potentially PRAM) are picking of speed, it may well be possible to to run programs directly off the HD. This would completely sidestep all this 'copying to RAM is infringement' BS

    2. Re:That might be irrelevant by Jeremi · · Score: 3, Funny

      And that's not even counting processor cache (probably small enough to be considered fair use).

      And why stop there? The bits on the wire connecting the hard drive to the motherboard? That's another copy right there. And as the bits travel through each additional stage of gates on the way to RAM and/or the CPU? Another copy.

      Cry havoc, and let slip the lawyers of war!

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
  15. What Psystar is forgetting about by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 4, Interesting

    17 USC 117 starts out thusly:

    Making of additional copy or adaptation by owner of copy. Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106 [17 USC 106], it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided:

    (emphasis added). The word "owner" is significant. When 17 USC 117 was originally written, it said something like possessor rather than owner, but during the ratification of this law, that was changed in Congress to owner, indicating that Congress really does intend this to apply to owners, not mere possessors.

    If the purported sale of the copy that ended up in Psystar's possession was conditioned on acceptance of contractual terms that Psystar is failing to honor, it is possible they are possessor of that copy, but not owner, and thus do not get to use 17 USC 117.

    1. Re:What Psystar is forgetting about by The+Cisco+Kid · · Score: 3, Informative

      Unless Apple has a contract signed by Psystar where they agreed to such terms, then Psystar is not a party to any such contract. Further, if they exchanged cash (or cash-equivalent, eg check, electronic payment, etc) for a physical item such as a disc, then they did in fact *buy* a copy of a program, and they are in fact owners of it.

  16. Re:Nice! by AmunRa · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Depends if you have a licence to run the OS in question.

    --
    " To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research. "
  17. Re:Anyone surprised? by Windowser · · Score: 5, Informative

    I don't think Apple has a right to say what piece of hardware you can run OS X on. It's paid for, end of story.

    They may not have a right (morally, that is), but, since the EULA states what you can run OS X on, they would seem to have a legal right.

    Not everyone lives in USA. Different places have different laws. Where I am, that EULA as no validity. You can't impose a contract to use your product after I bought it. You have to make me accept that contract before I buy it. So it looks like eveybody in Quebec can go buy OS X and run it on anything they seem fit, even a toaster if they can make it work.

    --
    Avoid the MS tax, always buy I.B.M. PC's (I Built-it Myself)
  18. Re:Anyone surprised? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No surprise, which is why you can search my house:0 NO Apple/Mac, no iDevices, not today, not ever. Not even welcome on the property (a recent guest was surprised but accepted my position).

    So to summarize - because of Apple's heavy-handed behavior, you will not associate with anyone who does not allow you to force your beliefs on them.

    There's some irony in there, somewhere. But on the bright side, I'm guessing this doesn't affect a significant number of people at all.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  19. Re:Slashdot--so we're against copyright now? by mixmatch · · Score: 4, Informative

    Maybe your confusion is due to the fact that you think the GPL zealot crowd actually cares about copyright. What we care about is freedom. In the GPL's case, it is guaranteeing everyone the freedom to take a program and modify it however they desire. In this case, the concern is about the freedom to use software one has purchased however one desires. As far as I know, this has not been settled by court as copyright infringement. Incidentally, you don't have to support everything about copyright or detest it completely. You can see good and bad implications and places where there is room for improvement. Its perfectly reasonable for me to want to see GPL content covered by copyright and not desire that 40-year old books also be covered.

  20. No, Steve is right and you prove it! by Antiocheian · · Score: 4, Insightful

    People know the difference between a Mac and a crappy PC.

    A friend of mine thought he knew the difference but after he found out that he couldn't upgrade the video card of his 24'' Apple he decided to turn it to a tv/media center for his bedroom. He listened to my advice to upgrade the PSU of his crappy Pentium system, install a low cost RAID array, get a modern 3D card, upgrade the memory to 4 GB and finally get a high quality Unicomp keyboard and a 26'' led monitor. Except for the monitor, the upgrades cost him little and his old machine feels twice as fast as the Apple.

    He is fuming with Apple because he would really like to play a few modern games but the video card of this model cannot be upgraded. (He didn't research that possibility as he never thought it possible to get a desktop system for 2500 Euros with a crappy portable MXM video without the option to upgrade.)

    So he often comes to my apartment just to play Gothic III on my watercooled system which by the way cost only 1500 Euros and turns his Apple to dust.

    A year ago, he was about to buy a MacBook but I saved him from that mistake by asking him to compare an equally priced Lenovo. He was blown away and I think this is the time when the Apple myth started fading on him.

    I am sure you are not convinced, correct? And this is my point: Apple is right. Their secret recipe is no longer how to make great computers but how to make their users feel superior. "The difference between a Mac and crappy PC" in the eyes of a Mac user is that the PC is crappy by nature while the Mac is not. It's a delusion, but one that feeds Apple since the 90s.

    1. Re:No, Steve is right and you prove it! by maccodemonkey · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So your friend was a moron and didn't do any research? You can buy PC's that don't support graphics upgrades either. I'm not sure what your point is. Your idiot friend could have done the same thing with a Windows box. Not to mention the 24" iMac graphics cards are not all that bad, AND can be upgraded to a gaming level card at purchase time. Seriously. So many things wrong with this post.

    2. Re:No, Steve is right and you prove it! by maccodemonkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If the consumer has specialty needs, then yes, I blame the consumer. If a gamer goes and buys a netbook and then complains he can't play Crysis, do you blame the netbook maker? The 24" iMac at the lowest end configuration shipped with a GeForce 9400, which is perfectly decent, even for gaming, for most average consumers. For consumers who wanted more gaming power, they gave the option of a Radeon 4850 upgrade, which is a perfectly good card for games, especially when it came out a year ago. I'm pretty sure they even stocked the higher end GPU models in the stores, but it's hard to check now that the models have changed. Any way you look at it, the guy had to go into a store, ignore the different machines, and just go for the cheapest one. I don't really mind if you buy PC's because they meet your needs better. But don't claim ignorance as a good reason as to why Apple is horrible.

  21. They might lose by theolein · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't think Apple will lose this case, given the current legal situation, but if by some slim chance Psystar wins its case on the grounds that Apple should have no control over how their product is used as long as the software license is paid for, i.e. that the EULA doesn't hold in this case, then Apple will have to contend with a legion of people and companies doing this. On the one hand this would be the thing that would enable Apple to break Microsoft's stranglehold on the PC market, on the other it weigh Apple down with an enormous amount of support costs (unless they specifically exclude this in their EULA) and also do damage to their brand as it would get watered down. The latter is an important part of Apple's strength and I can understand them fighting this for dear life.

    1. Re:They might lose by jonbryce · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Apple don't need to support the use of their product for a purpose it isn't sold for. If you try to install OSX on a playstation, it isn't going to work, and nobody would expect it to. If you try to install it on a PC with a hacked EFI emulator, it might work, but you can't really complain if it doesn't work very well.

    2. Re:They might lose by lorenlal · · Score: 3, Informative

      From the (limited) cases I've had involving AppleCare, they'll support what they sold you. That's it. Anything you add is fine... But unless you bought it from Apple directly, that's all they'll cover.

      If you get a new video card, and install it yourself and you get no picture, you'll need to remove the card and try again before they'll step in. Which is okay for those of us who'd be adding hardware anyway.

    3. Re:They might lose by segedunum · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I don't think Apple will lose this case, given the current legal situation, but if by some slim chance Psystar wins its case on the grounds that Apple should have no control over how their product is used as long as the software license is paid for, i.e. that the EULA doesn't hold in this case...

      If the EULA held up and could be enforced then Apple would have had a legal injuction enforced against Psystar pretty much immediately and wouldn't need to resort to trying to argue flimsy scenarios like this one regarding the applicability of copyright to supposed copies of OS X made. The fact that they haven't managed to do that and this is what they're having to do speaks volumes about what their chances on EULA enforcements are.

      ...on the other it weigh Apple down with an enormous amount of support costs (unless they specifically exclude this in their EULA) and also do damage to their brand as it would get watered down.

      It's about the only thing in their EULA that would hold up, and they wouldn't have to provide support for anything they didn't want to. It probably wouldn't make economic sense for them to do so however. You only need to look at Microsoft for the massive profits to be had from a far larger market with a far larger supply of hardware.

    4. Re:They might lose by s73v3r · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think Apple needs to look at Microsoft to see how to make massive profits. They're doing incredibly well with their corner of the market.

    5. Re:They might lose by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 4, Insightful

      but if by some slim chance Psystar wins its case on the grounds that Apple should have no control over how their product is used as long as the software license is paid for, i.e. that the EULA doesn't hold in this case...

      If the EULA held up and could be enforced then Apple would have had a legal injuction enforced against Psystar pretty much immediately and wouldn't need to resort to trying to argue flimsy scenarios like this one regarding the applicability of copyright to supposed copies of OS X made.

      You misunderstand. The EULA is a copyright license. In order for it to apply, Pystar has to have made a copy of the work, such as to disk or RAM.

      It's about the only thing in their EULA that would hold up, and they wouldn't have to provide support for anything they didn't want to.

      I don't think you understand the law very well.

      It probably wouldn't make economic sense for them to do so however. You only need to look at Microsoft for the massive profits to be had from a far larger market with a far larger supply of hardware.

      You're confusing cause and effect. MS makes huge profits because they have monopoly influence. Apple being unable to tie their hardware and software would make developing OS X unprofitable for Apple, not suddenly make them huge amounts of money. Every company that tries to compete in that market loses big time (BeOS for example). I know you think all the people making piles of money at Apple are incompetent compared to your economic brilliance and that they have somehow overlooked the idea of decoupling the markets, but the fact is, your theory is lousy.

      Of course that is moot since Apple has lots of other ways to tie their hardware and software even if the EULA clause is thrown out. If Pystar were to win completely, Apple could just stop selling their OS as a boxed copy and provide it as a free upgrade to hardware customers. Or they could require users to buy a service (like Mac.com) and provide the upgrades free as part of it. Or add some heavy duty DRM and authentication bring the DMCA into it. In short, if Pystar wins, it sets a good legal precedent, but practically just inconveniences OS X users while gaining Pystar nothing in the long run. OS X users will have to get used to entering a big serial number like Windows users.

      Pystar were clearly pretty clueless on a legal front when they started this enterprise and now are hoping to get a payoff and get out. You have to be a complete idiot to think you can include "mac" in the name of a computer you're selling despite Apple having a trademark on that term in the computer market.

    6. Re:They might lose by Jerry+Smith · · Score: 3, Informative

      You're assuming they know that the person who purchased OS X is running it on a valid piece of Mac hardware. That is where it would get ugly. These OSX86's look like standard hardware when you profile them in System Profile. Apple could waste a lot of time and resources troubleshooting 3rd party hardware without even knowing they were troubleshooting a hackintosh. Especially if they don't inventory all of the hardware, or the hardware matches an actual Mac for the key components.

      One the first thing an Apple employee registers is: The Serial-number. All serial-numbers are matched with a database that tells the employee what macintosh is on the other side with the customer. Psystar can't circumvent that.

      --
      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
    7. Re:They might lose by dave87656 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      On the one hand this would be the thing that would enable Apple to break Microsoft's stranglehold on the PC market

      Apple doesn't want to break MS's stranglehold on the PC market. It works out nicely for Apple and MS. Apple gets a niche market for machines which are significantly more expensive and MS makes sure the MS Office runs on their PC's as long as Apple doesn't tread on their turf.

      Apple could have ported OSX to PC architecture long ago (at least since they moved to Intel).

  22. Re:Are they making this argument? by vikstar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No, apple is. Since their attorneys represent apple, they are apple in a court of law.

    --
    The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than the question of whether a submarine can swim.
  23. Re:Apple owners would make same unauthorized copie by BasilBrush · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No it doesn't. That only deals with people's rights to resell their software package (media and license.) It doesn;t allow Psystar to make a modified version of OSX to load onto their PCs.

  24. Re:that was over a app with online play and pay to by Dishevel · · Score: 4, Funny

    that was over a app with online play and pay to play a OS is a buy one time per system and you don't pay per mouth to use it as well.

    I vote for worst use of the English language ever?

    --
    Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
  25. Re:Anyone surprised? by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 3, Funny

    I've always been a PC at heart.

    Not like the rest, the others. Everyone around me. I was at odds with my society and knew it early since birth. Unlike them, I did not "Think Different!"--the mantra of the Macs around me, the phrase on all the billboards in the city that served as a reminder to its citizenry. Sameness pervaded the essence of my being and no amount of self-conditioning I did could change that. Eventually, I gave up and isolated myself emotionally from society.

    I gaze at the faces going by, the white earphones contrasting their black turtlenecks, connecting their ears to their pockets, their blank faces engrossed in hip Indie rock music and various garage bands. I envied them for their perfection against my flaws and my compulsive nature to expand, to burden my life with troubles instead of remaining, like them, simple and easy to deal with. The grandest of virtues, simplicity... the philosophy by our loyal benefactor Steve Jobs, who descended from the heavens, creating the Earth, the iron, the wind and the rain. Steve Jobs, who defined the parameters of existence, the one who set about the patterns of reality, the constants, the variables. He who made gravity, electromagnetic energy, and shaped atomic structures and brought forth motion. From these things, he crafted the elements, processed them, refined them, and from these things engineered Apple products through the purity of his mind. Each Apple product was individually crafted by his own hands with the programming code used to run each device having being compiled in his brain and uploaded to each device telepathically, breathing life and perfection into each and every unit.

    Except, it seems, for me, for I was not among the many. I was a PC. They were Macs. I've always been a cold, stiff person. I got by, disguising myself by keeping my non-Ipod music player safely out of sight, which I use because of my depraved nature demanding more functionality than the simple and easy-to-use Ipods have to offer.. In the safety of my own home, behind locked doors, I ran a Forbidden, a contraband computer from more depraved, earlier days that was not given the love and blessing of being birthed by Steve Jobs. I dual booted, out of the great sin of curiosity-- curiosity, a shameful value of a PC, as curiosity has no place where simplicity matters most--using two of the great unutterable blasphemies-- something called "Windows Vista" and something else called "Linux." Although, as I mentioned before, although my tendency to be a PC and towards conformity has always been inherent to me, I was truly transformed when I found these old things in a hidden cache of computer parts predating The Purging. Perhaps the greatest sin of all, the single evil that, if discovered, would damn me forever, was the fact that my mouse had more than one button.

    As I walk among the Macs on the streets, passing the Starbuckses as I went along, I wondered how it all came to this. I glanced at The Holy Marks on the foreheads as the people wandered down the streets, the Bitten Apple tattooed on all our of us at birth, and wondered if, perhaps, there could be something more to life. But again, this was a PC's thought, and not, like everyone elses', a Mac's. We were to hold ourselves to the philosophy of Steve Jobs--so as his products were designed for idiots, so too were we to be idiots. But I was not a Mac--I was not an idiot. I was simply too complicated to be a worthwhile person.

    Nature called. I found a nearby public iPoo--squeaky clean and sparkly white, things weren't all bad--and let myself go, expelling the waste that had accumulated inside me. After relieving myself and committing the overly-complicated and thus illegal act of wiping my ass (I did not flush as iPoos, designed to be idiot-proof, did not flush) I left and once again wandered the streets aimlessly, hoping to find some meaning in a world where I simply did not belong, a world where if my true nature was discovered, I would be endlessly persecuted by smug, self-righteous sons of bitches.

  26. Re:Apple owners would make same unauthorized copie by butlerm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Once again, this isn't concerned with transfer of title

    Yes, it is. Apple's attorneys would have an enormous uphill battle fighting against centuries of common law, precedent, and the Uniform Commerical Code to establish that title to those copies did not transfer at each step of the distribution chain from Apple to Psystar.

    Did any of those transactions involve a signed lease indicating that the transaction was not a purchase at all, but rather a transferable lease to a copy that was owned by a third party?

    Apple owns the copyright, not the copy. Nor do they have any basis for the claim that they have title to copies that they delivered indefinitely in exchange for good money upfront. Nor do they have a basis for the claim that a shrinkwrap "license" is an enforceable license that governs the use of something the customer already owns. No one needs a license to use a copy they own - unless Apple owns the copy they cannot set the terms of its use beyond what is regulated by copyright.

    It is worth noting here that generally speaking a license can be retracted on demand. That is why it is a license, not a contract. If I say you can use my swimming pool, that is a license. If I change my mind, I revoke that license. Only if consideration is involved does that license become a contract. "Purchasing a license" is an oxymoron. So is "consideration free contract".

  27. Re:Anyone surprised? by maharb · · Score: 4, Interesting

    That is not a flawed assumption. You CLEARLY stated that you think once something is sold you should be able to do ANYTHING with it. If this means copy and redistribute those copies then that is fine right? Or are you taking back your prior statements and saying that there should be some regulations on what it means to sell something. You are now clearly contradicting your own moral assertions because you are saying that there are conditions to the sale i.e. You can't do certain things with the product once you buy it (such as copy and redistribute the copies).

    I don't care if I lose karma over this; get the fuck off your high horse. Current copyright is not perfect, but the idea that people should have no control over their creative works because it is "immoral" to place stipulations on the sale of something is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Stipulations on the sale of something is the basis of our modern society.

    You are advocating anarchy through your 'morals'.

    Normally I respect ones 'morals' but I think you have clearly demonstrated you are a self interested individual. You only care how this affects you and have no considerations to who else if affected by your ideas of right and wrong. You want to just go out and buy shit and have control over it with no thought of the work the creators put into making it. The reasons for wanting something to be sold with conditions is not to screw over the buyer. In fact most of the time it facilitates the buyer into being able to buy (and then get to use) something that would otherwise be too expensive. By reducing the level of control over said purchased item, or by stripping 'unnecessary' qualities from it, the product or service can be sold at a reduced price. The perfect example of this is a DVD. If there were no stipulations a DVD would probably cost in the thousands or higher because anyone could copy, screen, and otherwise profiteer by the purchase of the item. By imposing limitations the price can be reduced to a more reasonable level because the product is sold for a certain purpose. In the case of a DVD; private viewing with friends and family. Without this condition DVDs could not exist because the makers of the movie would not get compensated for their time and effort but someone else would. I really hope I don't need to go into a whole economics lecture here to explain why people need money to do things.

    You can argue that morals are held by individuals, but all morals are the product of socialization one way or another. Socialization is the product of a society. Society is very closely involved with shaping the morals of the individual. All you need to do to prove this is compare America to say Iran. The vastly different morals are not due statistical anomalies or rational choices in individual persons. It is due to society socializing its members. Morality is inherently based on a set of generally accepted beliefs that a society has. In some societies it is immoral to do things that are perfectly normal in other societies. Laws are generated off of morals that the general society feels so strongly about that they are willing to FORCE that moral on anyone who is wishing to live within the societal structure. i.e. If you feel like parking in a handicapped spot you will get a ticket. There is nothing inherently wrong with parking in a spot arbitrarily marked as special, yet as a society the general moral belief is that those spots should be reserved for certain people who need them more. If this was not a general moral belief of the society.. it would not exist.

    So while you can blab on about what you think is correct, morals are not just opinions.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality

    Only in the most abstract sense of morality do you end up in the zone where morality is just an opinion. The generally accepted definition requires some sort of semi-logical justification of the view you take.

  28. Re:if you buy the software, it's a legal copy by vaporland · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sherwin Williams doesn't tell me that I can't use exterior house paint on interior walls. They might recommend otherwise, but I can do what I want with their paint - I paid for it.

    Prescription drug makers love it when something like Botox, which was originally developed as a treatment for crossed eyes, is used for "off-label" applications. Now, airline tickets are another matter, but it's not really good marketing to justify your shitty business practices because airlines get away with something similar...

    Granted, if I use these products in a manner inconsistent with their labeling, I assume the risk of doing so.

    I couldn't give two fucks about the BSA or your Adobe example (I seriously doubt BSA is going to sue one individual for upgrading a pirated serial, but this has nothing to do with the discussion at hand).

    In my theoretical case, I paid for OS X and I can damn well use it how I please. Apple got their money. If they don't want us using OS X on third party hardware, maybe they should stop selling upgrades, embed the OS in ROM and only sell updated OS software with new machines - they'd love that.

    If I am Apple and some whiner calls complaining that their Dell Mini 9 got bricked by a software update, it's tough luck, Charlie. It's funny though that Dell support will tell you how to install OS X on your Dell Mini 9, and I don't see the BSA going after them.

    Isn't it also funny how Dell has made sure that certain models of their laptops are plug compatible with Macs, which allows you to install OS X onto them without hacking them first...

    --
    Ask Me About... The 80's!