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Free 3G Wireless For Nintendo's Next Handheld?
itwbennett writes "'Nintendo is feeling the sting of competition from the iPhone,' writes Peter Smith in a recent post. 'At least, that's the feeling one gets when reading Nintendo president Satoru Iwata's thoughts on the future of Nintendo handhelds. According to a Financial Times piece, Iwata suggests the next Nintendo handheld (and to be clear, he isn't talking about the big screen DS launching in Japan next month) might include free 3G wireless, much like the Amazon Kindle does. The challenge is to offer the immediacy of downloading an inexpensive new game, anywhere, anytime, without forcing the user into some kind of monthly data plan.' From the FT piece: 'Only people who can pay thousands of yen a month [in mobile phone subscriptions] can be iPhone customers. That doesn't fit Nintendo customers because we make amusement products,' Mr Iwata said."
Agfain nintendo is finding a truly innovative idea in order to stay dominant.
They found a niche with the Wii for the casual gamers, now they'll find another niche with people on the move (but with limited budgets) for casual on the go gaming purchases.
Go nintendo!
Also, First.
Without a doubt, as soon as a product that comes with "Free 3G," there will be hackers on it to enable tethering.
interactive hologram, or it didn't happen.
Does he mean "in Japan" or "everywhere in the world"?
This sure won't work in Canada, where the cellphone providers have a stronghold on almost anything wireless.
It seems to me that it's more the large number of developers, and the diversity of games/apps, that could be a bigger issue. Sure, immediacy is nice, but...if Nintendo keeps up the policy of charging multi-thousands of dollars for a dev kit, with a requirement that it _must_ be a business location (no home offices), I don't see 3G as being much help...
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --H.L. Mencken
The ebook readers can get away with this cheaply because ebooks don't take up much space. Games on the other hand can be quite large, and I imagine the next-gen games meant to compete with the iPhone 3GS (which has more powerful hardware than both the current DSi and and PSP Go) will be even larger. Can Nintendo really front the costs to provide access to this service without increasing game price?
"That doesn't fit Nintendo customers because we make amusement products,' Mr Iwata said."
This guy sounds sane, unlike the crazies in the US industry where the sleazebags ramble on about "life style" and what not.
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
I loved my dslite, and played it a lot, and there are lots of games (lots and lots) of games that I had a lot of fun with (Mario Kart especially). I don't think I'll get another one only because the games I have on the iPhone, while not Mario Kart or Nintendo-quality, are good enough for what I want to do, which is kill some time on the bus or in a line. Plus, as it's my phone, I'm going to always have it with me.
Comparing the games I've played on the ds and the iphone, the only difference is that a majority of the games on the iphone seem to be trial balloons from established companies (EA, Sega), and home-brew games that are of varying degrees of quality. What I don't see is a major benefit of the ds hardware over the iphone. Yes I can pull out the game cart quickly get going with another game, but I've lost several carts and that's $40+ down the drain. With the phone, the app is actually installed and I don't see any excessive start lag that wouldn't be there in a cart game too (setting up the db, loading graphics, initializing the engine, etc.). From a graphics, sound, networking, etc., standpoint, I don't see anything the ds can do that the iphone can't (okay, yes, there are two screens, but that's not a "killer features" as far as I'm concerned; if anything, I've never been very good at keeping focus on the "right" screen at the right time).
I can appreciate we won't see Mario Kart on the iPhone soon, if ever, but I'd think that there are plenty of other companies developing for the ds who, if they wrote an iphone version, would be opening up a whole new market for themselves. I know there's been articles about iphone app piracy that you don't have as much with a cart, so I guess that's a legitimate concern. That said, I know lots of iphone users, none of them even know what jailbreaking is; are there really more iphone users "in the know" about how to pirate an app than users who just buy their apps and go about their business?
I appreciate this sounds very fanboy-ish, but as someone who had an ipod, a phone, and a dslite...I was carrying around a lot of stuff. The iphone, for me, consolidates everything into one package and there's no reason I'd want to go back.
The challenge is to offer the immediacy of downloading an inexpensive new game, anywhere, anytime, without forcing the user into some kind of monthly data plan.
There won't be a monthly plan, because it was be bundled into the price upfront. I also wouldn't be surprised if the median owner rarely used their 3G connection, and were subsidizing the small minority who uses it. There's a problem when Nintendo's handheld is more expensive than their full console. Especially when a large part of the success for the Wii is attributed to it's low price point.
A 3G chip adds manufacturing cost, won't play well in all countries (look at how the kindle has had functionality removed outside the US), can be incredibly slow depending on the network and location, will be incredibly expensive for the 500mb+ downloads that will probably make up DS2 games...
that'll be expensive...
Good luck Nintendo. They better be building this cost into online game sales...
I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
One of the biggest problems I've had with the Nintendo systems is that you either have to carry around a ton of cartridges in order to play
Not on the DSi. It has a 256 MB microSD card soldered onto the motherboard for storing apps downloaded from the DSi Shop. The only thing that the article would change is that you don't have to walk to a restaurant to buy new apps.
The ability to DL a new game on the fly
Except 3G doesn't work so well on a jet airliner: too many handoffs per minute. You'd have to use the onboard Wi-Fi, which airlines would likely price for executives of medium to large businesses. And at that point, you could just use the DSi Shop.
Free, speedy Internet. Who'd have thought?
Games on the other hand can be quite large
How large? Classic NES, Super NES, Game Boy, and Game Boy Color games are 4 MiB or less (with a handful of exceptions). Even a DS-native game like Animal Crossing: Wild World is only 32 MiB. Compare that to the 256 MB of internal memory on a DSi or the 4 GB card in the DSi's SDHC slot.
more powerful hardware
Wii has more powerful hardware than the DS, but Wii Shop Channel games still weigh in less than 48 MB. (There are roughly eight "blocks" in 1 MB.)
Can Nintendo really front the costs to provide access to this service without increasing game price?
Full-size games cost $30 to $40 in the United States, partly due to the cost of making and shipping Game Cards. Do you think the 3G airtime to download, say, a 64 MB game will cost more than making and shipping a Game Card?
Leave it up to their (your) parents. Nintendo isn't grafting them every child's hands, yet.
I'm skeptical of how successful this can be. For one thing, their analogy is flawed. It's easy to build the price wireless of service for ebooks into the purchase price because ebooks are, on average, less than 1MB in size. Contrast that with modern portable games, which can regularly exceed 1GB in file size. If Nintendo plans to build that cost into the price of games, they could be looking at a substantial markup. Also, acquiring the game is not the only consideration for portable game buyers. They'll also want online functionality within many games. Does Nintendo plan to offer this without subscription charges as well? How will they fund it?
The other problem with this is that it doesn't really address the main reason why so many people are opting for games on platforms like the iPhone, convenience. Despite Sony's and Nintendo's (best?) efforts, the DS and PSP are still pretty much only gaming devices in a world where mobile phones are becoming an increasingly convergent platform. Sony and Nintendo still provide a better gaming experience, but for a lot of people who are just looking to pass a few minutes of free time while they're on the go, mobile phones are increasingly "good enough". Why shell out another $100-$200 for a portable device, plus $30-$40 for games (not to mention deal with the logistics of charging and carrying a second device), when you've already got something in your pocket that replicates, say 70-80% of the functionality of a dedicated device? For some, the answer to that question is obviously "because the games are better". But as mobile phones get more and more powerful, that group will get smaller and smaller.
What I don't see is a major benefit of the ds hardware over the iphone.
A lot of DS and PSP fanboys on Slashdot prefer the tactile response of the directional pad and physical buttons on the "traditional" handhelds over the flat multitouch screen of an iPod Touch. Some of the members of tetrisconcept.net and harddrop.com (forums for hardcore Tetris fans) have tried Tetris on an iPhone, and the control scheme wasn't suitable for the sort of 100+ piece per minute play that they're used to.
as someone who had an ipod, a phone, and a dslite...I was carrying around a lot of stuff. The iphone, for me, consolidates everything into one package
I'm currently on a $5 per month plan at Virgin Mobile because I don't text or use a lot of minutes. I looked into an iPhone and found the convenience of a single device not worth the money for the required voice and data plans.
Next up... 3G on Casio calculators...
Nintendo is famous for not buying into the "all-in-one" device and has always focused on games only. Adding 3g sounds interesting but its reality is really limiting. This would likely be only for access to DSi type mini game downloads since actually supporting online gaming with "free" g3 is financially impossible unless the handheld is prohibitively expensive. There is also the added cost of supporting different architectures since there is no real global standard for cellular technology.
Given that Canada is STILL one of the countries you can't get the Kindle in - our wireless companies have things monopolized and locked down to the point that there's no money in it for them to bring it here - guess that means any new Nintendo HH with built-in 3G would suffer the same fate.
ebooks are, on average, less than 1MB in size. Contrast that with modern portable games, which can regularly exceed 1GB in file size. If Nintendo plans to build that cost into the price of games, they could be looking at a substantial markup.
I addressed that in this post.
Also, acquiring the game is not the only consideration for portable game buyers. They'll also want online functionality within many games.
But how many friend codes do you think a player can gather? Playing without a friend code is little different from playing against the CPU.
Are you saying that Nintendo should intentionally lower their revenue or raise the consumer price?
No, emag and I are saying that Nintendo should follow Apple's model of the iPhone developer program and the App Store, which in turn is a carbon copy of Microsoft's XNA Creators Club and Xbox Live Indie Games. But instead, Nintendo chooses to discriminate against people for whom developing video games is something other than a day job.
You don't say "Meh, automobiles aren't very innovative. They're really just a horse drawn carriage without the horse."
Well, that's because it's a pain in the ass to drag a horse-drawn carriage around places when you don't have a horse...
Bow-ties are cool.
Okay, we need to get moving faster on wireless networking oversight. It's getting worse than the cable/dsl nightmare of crappy service and quality they provide. How about we unbundle these wireless connections from their devices and simply allow us to select the right one and drop in the appropriate chip? Someone put some pressure on the US market to standardize on something. then have them compete on price, speed, service, and support. Right now they compete with lock in and fancy stupid commercials.
And it's not "free". At the very least, it's included with the price of the device. And how does one exactly subsidize that on a single device? It's $30 a month for the iPhone data plan, that's $360 a year in fees. Are they going to tack on $360 to the price of the device? And how do they expect to do this in multiple countries? And in the US will anyone accept the hit their network is going to take? They saw the iPhone, they should be wary of the nintendo with 3G wireless.
There are too many questions here, and so many fail points. The best way to serve consumers is to UNBundle the wireless component so we can all make choices. I'd love to be able to do that on all the networks, and I'd sacrifice visual voicemail to do it.
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
it gets hacked and people tether it to get free 3G data access. Its happened in the past, and it can happen again, especially with Nintendo's stellar record of console security.
A 3 hour flight is ten bucks for airplane WiFi.
Times you, the SO, and how many kids?
I don't have a Kindle, so someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the concept is, the Kindle isn't a 'general purpose' Internet device, like a smart phone - that is, I don't think you can really just browse the web, stream audio and video from youtube, hulu, or whatever. Basically, the data connection on the Kindle is special-purpose - for downloading Kindle eBooks/eZines/eNewspapers, which are a) relatively small, and b) the price of the 3G network bandwidth for the download is essentially bundled in the price of the content you purchase.
So, Amazon, I think, worked out a deal with carriers in different countries to pay for the cost of the downloads, by sharing the revenue generated by the content purchases with the network operators(granted, there is also some activity, like the user browsing the amazon kindle 'store', which doesn't directly generate revenue, but which is recovered by the user purchases).
In such a business model, the individual users are probably generating, collectively, much less bandwidth-use per device (on average) than your average smart-phone user, so the costs to the 3G network operator are relatively small. Any users who are using a lot more bandwidth than the average user are also paying a lot more for content than the average user, so the high-use users pay for themselves (as do the low-use users).
I could very easily see Nintendo working out such a deal with network operators if the only thing the online connectivity is used for is browsing the Nintendo store to find and purchase games/DLC, and then download the games after purchase. If, however, the Nintendo device allows web browsing and online play against/with other Nintendo users, then I have a harder time seeing that business model succeed (because the users, then, aren't necessarily paying indirectly for all the network bandwidth they use).
Ummm, 1000 Yen ~= $10 USD. So paying thousands == between $10 and $100 per month (I think most people here fall into the higher end of that range). I fail to see how that's an astonishing figure worth pointing out...
If a man isn't willing to take some risk for his opinions, either his opinions are no good or he's no good
YOU FiaL IT11!1 lulz
...I'll buy it. If it's downloaded games-only, I won't.
As hard as it is to believe, there are some of us out there who still prefer games in a tangible format with a box and a manual and aren't going to cease wanting physical copies of games in the next generation of consoles and handhelds (and every generation after).
Yay for more people crowding the network that I have to pay for. I don't care how much it's routed and packet shaped, they're getting bandwidth free that I have to pay for in LARGE sums per month and still get crappy quality of service.
international data roaming charges
Your handheld won't even try to download games while on another continent as a side effect of the region coding that Nintendo has been using since DSi.
The airplane's monopoly ISP's terms of service ban WLAN-to-WLAN bridges. Here's why: There are only three channels considered non-overlapping in Wi-Fi: 1, 6, and 11. If the network uses channel 11, what channels can three families of passengers use for their bridges?
Hahahaha!! Oh shit, that made my day! Thanks man :)
DS games are as big as 256MB, compression varies. DSi games stored on SD cards could be much larger, and they may need the extra storage space since the DSi has upgraded hardware specifications (speed, memory, etc) compared to previous DS models. DSi exclusive games could use larger textures, higher bitrate videos, etc.
Twinstiq, game news
When the iPhone battery starts giving you 15 to 20 hours of gaming time, you can start comparing it to the DS. Until then, the iPhone remains a phone that turns into a paperweight after six hours of playing games.
thanks for the nice topic and review.
is it really true? if true than itz a kool news.
i like nintendo.. though i dont have one yet...
http://www.buyergen.com
Time to stop moving
I assume your comment was sarcasm. Do you know how much it costs to move to a city that has a commercial video game development scene?
And what would happen if all of these homebrewers, as (correct me if I'm wrong) is very likely amongst homebrewers, didn't bother to charge for their software?
Microsoft already solved this in its Xbox Live Indie Games environment: a price floor of 400 MP ($5.00), or 200 MP for games weighing under some size in megabytes.