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Bernie Madoff's Programmers Arrested

ZipK writes "With their former boss cooling his heels on a 150-year sentence, programmers Jerome O'Hara and George Perez are now in the US Attorney's crosshairs. They've been arrested and charged with criminal conspiracy, and 'accused of producing false documents and trading records at Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC in New York.' Apparently Madoff's fraud was too large and too complex to be foisted entirely by hand."

26 of 280 comments (clear)

  1. Moral of the story: by alecto · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you destroy evidence, make sure you destroy the backups, too.

    1. Re:Moral of the story: by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 5, Funny

      ... and when your boss gets 150 years, get your ass to a country without an extradition treaty with the US.

      --
      I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
    2. Re:Moral of the story: by Tumbleweed · · Score: 4, Funny

      If you destroy evidence, make sure you destroy the backups, too.

      Also, make sure you destroy evidence of your destruction of evidence and backups.

    3. Re:Moral of the story: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Should have used perl.

    4. Re:Moral of the story: by skine · · Score: 4, Funny

      Don't forget to destroy the evidence of your destruction of the evidence of the destruction of the evidence and backups and its backups and its backups.

    5. Re:Moral of the story: by Tumbleweed · · Score: 5, Funny

      Don't forget to destroy the evidence of your destruction of the evidence of the destruction of the evidence and backups and its backups and its backups.

      This is going to turn into one of two things: A painting of Stephen Colbert, or an episode of Black Adder.

      I'm good with either outcome, really.

    6. Re:Moral of the story: by Wuhao · · Score: 5, Funny

      ... and when your boss gets 150 years, get your ass to a country without an extradition treaty with the US.

      Polanski's corollary: Stay there.

    7. Re:Moral of the story: by OnlineAlias · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, the problem is they were sending out statements. Those statements were theoretically based on input from the markets, after the amounts were made bigger by the black box which was Madoff's investment "strategy". Once the black box was determined to be a fraud, the programmers were done, because they implemented the black box. At that point ,no amount of deleting was going to get them out of being implicated.

  2. But by Dunbal · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So tell me, when are they going to go after the programmers at Goldman Sachs?

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    1. Re:But by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's easy: when there is evidence that they committed a crime.

      Goldman Sachs's behavior is probably completely legal (that doesn't mean it's morally right, just legal). Also, it's extremely unlikely that programmers working in the bowels of the big investment banks (GS, MS, BoA) are in on any lawbreaking that does occur.

      It seems like these guys made several stupid mistakes:
      - Being loyal to Madoff et al once they knew what was going on.
      - Being willing to lie to the FBI and/or SEC.
      - Taking big bonuses to keep their mouth shut.
      - Staying in the country after the house of cards fell apart.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    2. Re:But by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 4, Informative

      perhaps some programmers were in on the fact that it was a scam

      FTFA:

      [according to the prosecutor] The computer codes and random algorithms they allegedly designed served to deceive investors and regulators and concealed Madoff's crimes

      At one point they tried to cover their tracks by erasing files, but did an incomplete job.

      After that, the SEC said DiPascali convinced the programmers to modify programs so that he and other employees could create [fake] reports themselves.

      ... which indicates that although they might have been bothered by what they were doing, they weren't bothered enough to quit,or call in the Feds themselves, or take any other redeeming action.

      Granted, they're innocent until proven guilty, etc., but it appears they were in this up to their ears.

      --
      I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
    3. Re:But by CannonballHead · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The injunction of Jesus to love others as ourselves is an endorsement of self-interest

      Ah yes. A great Biblical scholar. All Biblical scholars know that Jesus definitely was trying to protect self-interest. So was Paul, when he said

      Philippians 2:3 (New International Version)
      Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.

      And Jesus when He talked about being meek, humble, lowly, generous, forgiving, feeding the poor, clothing the naked. And the rest of the Bible when it talks about humility, that God hates the pride, that God "sides" with the humble, that God resists the proud, that God sees the poor and needy, that God judges the unjust - especially when they are rich and they unjustly treat the poor ...

      Definitely "an endorsement of self-interest." Frankly, I would guess that Griffiths has never read the Bible but pulled that quote from somewhere because he was in St. Paul's Cathedral and thus wanted to appear religious in some way. To most people that actually have read the Bible and even more so to people that believe it, he only comes off as being ignorant and just using the words of Jesus to excuse his own selfishness and greed (also talked about in the Bible in quite condemning terms). Not sure that's what he meant to do.

  3. crontab by El_Muerte_TDS · · Score: 4, Funny

    Apparently Madoff's fraud was too large and too complex to be foisted entirely by hand

    And that's why we have cellscripts and conjobs

  4. What's the motivation? by cryfreedomlove · · Score: 4, Funny

    There are so many great opportunities out there for making a legitimate living programming that it makes me wonder why these guys volunteered to spend the best years of their lives stealing from people.

    1. Re:What's the motivation? by geekoid · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You're a computer programmer, in your mid 40s. Finding work is difficult for a programmer after 40, every one around you is becoming stinking rich, law enforcement seems to not pay attention when things go well, you have kids in college, and you boss is pressuring.

      Every day you go in and deal with these people, everyday they lie and cut corners and get rich without any legal issues.

      What they did was wrong, but I can certainly understand why they did it, and I can't say for 100% I wouldn't have done the same thing. I like to think I wouldn't, but still.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  5. Well, of course. by Animats · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you've followed the details of the Madoff scandal, it was obvious that it required substantial computer support.

    Each month, Madoff's investors got statements which showed fictitious trades and fictitious profits. The phony trades were for real stocks, with prices which were (almost) real. But the trades were chosen retrospectively, which is like betting on a race after it's run. So superficially reasonable statements came out. This was all generated on an AS-400 that had been in use for this for several decades.

    The software wasn't very good. If they'd been better at it, they could have generated statements which showed trades which exactly matched real trades of others (from the "tape"; trades are public but traders are anonymous), delivered trade confirmations every day, and still shown phony profits just by picking trades randomly distributed around the 75% of each day's trades. That would survive external examination, but not a real audit. Close looks at Madoff statements show trades which could not possibly have occurred; the price is outside the day's trading range. Sloppy.

  6. interesting by Trepidity · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I went to an engineering school that was founded in the aftermath of WW2, so had a strong ethos of: "scientists and engineers need to understand what we're doing and why, not just implement stuff other people tell us to". I.e., don't assume the people above you are in charge of the "why" and as the scientist/engineer all you need to care about is the "how". Usually it's seen as more of an ethics thing, but interesting to be reminded that on occasion it can be a matter of self-interest, too, since you have a legal responsibility to know what you're doing and why, at least to some minimum degree.

  7. Re:Alan Johnson is a twat by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 5, Funny

    any particular kind of metal you'd like the chains made from

    Mercury.

    --
    I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
  8. Re:Right after the revolution by WarwickRyan · · Score: 4, Informative

    > That's 10% 10% barely covers overhead, and employee salaries.

    Put simply, Profit = Revenue - Costs.

    All overheads, salaries etc ARE costs. So Dell's $1.5b profit on sales of $14b isn't at all bad at all. It's very good.

    What you're talking about is margin - the difference between the cost price of something and the sale price. The figure of "30%" is a generally accepted minimum margin for a business. I think it's based on a reseller. If you buy a box of paper in at $10, then you should have to sell it for $15 (plus tax if applicable) in order to survive. That $5 should cover all of your costs, with a little left over for profit.

  9. Re:Right after the revolution by Enderandrew · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I hate articles filled with lies.

    Buffet routinely lobbied against the bailout legislation.

    Buffet did lobby for bailouts of a different nature, in which the government would get voting stock in the companies they bailed out, there were clear stipulations on where money was spent (so it didn't go into pockets like his), and there was massive accountability.

    When Buffet bailed out GE, he laid out such a framework and encouraged the government to follow suit. And while Buffet has a high personal worth because of stock he owns, he has always been know to live frugally, and is now giving away the massive bulk of his wealth.

    However Buffet is a known conservative, so a liberally-slanted website is all but obligated to go on a character assassination for no good reason. (I'm neither Republican nor Democrat. I just hate lying. If anything, I support true liberalism, in which there is less government restriction period, and personal liberties are protected as much as possible).

    --
    http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
  10. Re:Alan Johnson is a twat by Rakishi · · Score: 4, Informative

    Very far from true.

    The list of countries with no extradition treaties with the US is, more or less:
    Afghanistan, Algeria, Andorra, Angola, Armenia, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brunei, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cambodia, Cameroon, Cape Verde, the Central African Republic, Chad, China (People's Republic of China), the Union of the Comoros, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Cote d' Ivoire, Djibouti, Equatorial Guinea, Ethiopia, Gabon, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Indonesia, Jordan, Kosovo, Kuwait, Laos, Lebanon, Libya, Madagascar, the Maldives, Mali, the Marshall Islands, Mauritania, the Federated States of Micronesia, Moldova, Mongolia, Montenegro, Mozambique, Myanmar, Namibia, Nepal, Niger, Oman, Qatar, the Russian Federation, Rwanda, Samoa, São Tomé & Príncipe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Serbia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Togo, Tunisia, Uganda, United Arab Emirates, Vanuatu, Vietnam, Yemen, Zimbabwe, Bhutan, Iran, Taiwan, Korea (North).

  11. "Bernie Madoff's Programmers Arrested"???... by Dogtanian · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...Oh My God! Does this mean Bernie Madoff was a robot?

    --
    "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
  12. Re:Right after the revolution by Dunbal · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Buffet routinely lobbied against the bailout legislation.

          Buffet is a smart man. And everyone was against the bailout legislation. Except of course those to be bailed out, and the Pelosi inspired politicians.

          I still remember the reports when it was first mentioned. "All my constituents aren't saying "No", they're saying "HELL NO!"". All that got swept under a pile of money however.

          It's curious for me that, living in Costa Rica, the US dollar has plummeted against our local currency - to the point where a can of Coke is now twice as expensive here versus in the US (due to local inflation continuing despite our currency appreciating against the dollar). I think soon US citizens won't be able to afford to travel outside the US. It's a real pain in the ass for me, because I earn in dollars, so I'm becoming relatively poorer too compared to my wife who earns in local currency. We're talking 10-15% poorer in the past 3 months alone. Running the money printing presses in the US has everything to do with this. But no one listened to Ludwig von Mises the first time, anyway.

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  13. Re:Alan Johnson is a twat by Korin43 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For some reason I don't think we need an extradition treaty with Afghanistan..

  14. Re:Right after the revolution by ShatteredArm · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Buffett is a Democrat.

    And yes, Buffett did benefit from the bailouts... Not to mention Buffett recently tried to back Goldman's recent proposal to buy tax credits from Fannie Mae. He's not the boogeyman, but he's not the nice, friendly man with a sincere belief in capitalism that he is sometimes made out to be.

  15. What about his banker, Chase? by technobabblingfool · · Score: 4, Informative

    Madoff kept all of his billions of money in a single account at JP Morgan Chase bank. If they are going to bust his programmers, they should bust his bank too. Even for a bank the size of Chase, Madoff just leaving billions of dollars sitting in the account instead of investing it like he claimed to be doing must have gotten their attention one or a hundred times. If the bank looked the other way to hang onto a lucrative cash deposit, they are just as guilty as the programmers.