Commodore 64 Runs Again On the iPhone

Hugh Pickens writes "Stephen Williams reports in the NY Times that the app recreating some of the Commodore's seminal retro games, including Le Mans, Dragons Den and Jupiter Lander, has been re-issued after being pulled in September. The app features SID sound emulation, auto-save to continue where you left off, and a realistic joystick with a beautifully crafted C64 keyboard. Apple originally rejected the program for violating the SDK agreement, which dictates that 'no interpreted code may be downloaded and used in an Application except for code that is interpreted and run by Apple's Published APIs and built-in interpreter(s).' After disabling the controversial feature, Apple published the app in September, but days later it was pulled and the developer was asked to remove, rather than just disable, the BASIC interpreter from the program, which would have allowed unscrupulous users to run unlicensed, emulated code on the iPhone or iPod Touch. 'The road was bumpy, but we remained persistent and made the changes Apple was looking for. Ultimately, BASIC has been removed for this release; however, we hope that working with Apple further will allow us to re-enable it,' the company wrote on its blog."

Comments

Can you actually do anything useful?

[omni123]

Is there actually a method of doing anything unscrupulous with a BASIC interpreter running inside a C64 emulator running on an iPhone?

Re:Can you actually do anything useful?

[DNS-and-BIND]

That's not the point. The point is, Apple must control everything. Yes, they regard even a BASIC interpreter as a threat. And they are very correct to do so. You might laugh but Apple's principles are sound. I have just spent some time reviewing documents from just before the Wall fell and it was very clearly revealed that letting people have a little bit of freedom was ultimately disastrous.

Re:Can you actually do anything useful?

[Brian Gordon]

I hate the ridiculous anti-free nature of the app store, but it's not hard to see why Apple would be concerned. The fear is that if a program gets into the App Store that allows any sort of user-provided data to be executed, then evil unlicensed apps could be delivered to the platform through that interpreter.

For example, instead of writing your games in C and paying Apple to sell them on the app store, you could write your game in BASIC and deliver them through the C64 emulator. Apple makes no money. Not exactly practical, but if there's a hole in the interpreter environment that allows a jump into raw binary data (which could be set to ARM instructions) then it's up to the app developer to fix it, and Apple has no control. This is the kind of problem that plagued TI calculators for years until they decided to open them up, and was the door into custom unsigned software on game consoles before the age of modchips and hard drives.

Re:Can you actually do anything useful?

[KillShill]

Don't use the word "control" in the same sentence as App£€ when DRM is more accurate.

Telling the customer (or consumer if you support corporate rights over your own) what to do with a product after it has been sold = DRM.

Re:Can you actually do anything useful?

[RanCossack]

*cough* I think someone may have already found a different way to jailbrea-- I mean run unsigned code.

Games written in BASIC that Apple wouldn't make money on, though... hmmm. How would Gorillas the iPhone Game make money if people are playing Gorillas on BASIC?

(Actually, that's a free App. Oh, well.)

Re:Can you actually do anything useful?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. You can do things your Apple overlords have not expressly given you permission to do. This cannot be allowed, because they have not given permission.

The phone market is Apple's wet dream, because none of the customers have any expectation of openness or being able to actually do anything with their own hardware, so there's not much complaint when they give users the full Apple experience by locking everything down. I fully expect they'd do the exact same damn thing with OS X elsewhere if they could get away with it.

Re:Can you actually do anything useful?

[cheekyboy]

Apple is just pissed that no one made an Apple2 EMU, because the c64 rocked ass and was 1000x more popular that apple
crap creation with 1970s green screen crap that was even crap in 1982.

Keyboard was nice, but the insides were dead boring and dull.

Re:Can you actually do anything useful?

[mgblst]

It is ignorant to talk about Apple being upset at not being able to make money from Commodore basic games.

You can already release as many free games as you want, which cost apple money to host, and they do not make a cent. Apple doesn't care if you release any game you want, or as many as you want for free. They will not stop you (as long as you follow the rules).

It is clearly not about money. It is about a rule Apple created, not for commodore basic, but for things like flash. basic just happens to fit into this rule.

Re:Can you actually do anything useful?

[Anonymous Coward]

Though really if Apple owned a country I'm not sure if it would be more or less restrictive than the USSR...

If Apple owned a country it would be almost exactly like that commercial for the 1984 Superbowl. Except it'd be Steve Jobs up on the viewscreen and a bearded penguin running up the aisle while the mindless Apple drones would all be sticking their legs into the aisle trying to trip him. before he could throw a hammer through the viewscreen.

Re:Can you actually do anything useful?

[Hal_Porter]

You can't compare the app store and totalitarianism. Apple sells products and people have a choice whether or not they use them. The store is exclusive and the entry policies are somewhat arbitrary/elitist/wanky, but that is no difference from a fancy nightclub. Legally they have a right to offer the service, and I have the right to ignore it. You can't choose whether you want to live under a communist system or not if you're born in a country that has one.

Also Apple haven't killed millions of innocent people.

Now I know people are going to say something like "but they banned my app from the appstore/won't let me run my OSX torrent on my netbook/kicked me out of the Apple Store for explaining the principles of Free Software! My life is just as hard as someone that got killed in a concentration camp! BAWWW!". And unfortunately there is no response to that.

Re:Can you actually do anything useful?

[sjames]

Apple's problem is that they have a bunch of thieving users who think the iPhone is theirs to use as they wish just because they paid for it. Next thing you know, they'll be writing "hello world" and you know where that leads! If you give a bunch of scumbags like that even an inch, next thing you know, they'll be demanding that they get what they pay for every time! The nerve!!

Re:Can you actually do anything useful?

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

are you seriously comparing vendor lock in on software to the Soviet Union?

It's a PHONE. you're free to jail break and Apple won't zap your phone dead. Christ.

Re:Can you actually do anything useful?

[bill_mcgonigle]

You're quite right - Apple is at the top of the proprietary heap.

If iPhone isn't a purposeful implementation of The Innovator's Solution's* description of the proprietary to commodity process I don't know what is. I mean, the authors even have a section on Blackberry and describe how to better it ala iPhone.

Once a reasonable competitor emerges (is it Droid?) Apple will loosen its grip, but until then it commands higher profit by staying as controlling as possible.

* I know, the apostrophe should be after the hyperlink, but slashdot's anti-goat display makes it too confusing.

Because it is there.

[Anonymous Coward]

Just like a mountain.

Re:Another STUPID iPhone story!

[Abcd1234]

Just FYI, jackass (make that "stupid", or perhaps, "special" jackass), the reason this is a story isn't because there's a C64 emulator for the iPhone. Rather, it's a story because Apple pulled it from their app store because you could run a BASIC interpreter on it, and only allowed it back on the app store after the interpreter was pulled.

I mean, jebus, is it so much to ask that you just read the "stupid" article summary?

Re:Another STUPID iPhone story!

[Anonymous Coward]

If you'd bother to read into the history of this, you'd understand why it's news-worthy. It was accepted by Apple, then pulled down awhile ago, due to "breaking the agreement," which caused the media to pick it up regarding if Apple should be allowed this level of control and what not. So the program isn't what's news, the fact that they were able to get around Apple is. If you'd bothered to have read the articles and a little bit of the history, you'd know that. Then again, it's typical for you Apple bashers to just come out and bash them without knowing a single fact.

Re:The point is ?

[Ilgaz]

On real smart phones, people does it for years, installing/running their old games, showing their friends the code they wrote.

The issue here is, your device vendor and your apologists shouldn't be asking this question. It should be YOU choosing what to do with the computing platform you do. Why don't you ask why there is such a limit of "running emulated code"? Why don't you think 10 SECONDS about the reasoning behind it?

I can't wait for the "app store only" OS X 10.7 and apologists for the most closed computing platform ever came to this earth. If things go that bad, I will be running Windows junk with 100 utils to make it my way so it doesn't bother me, I will just grab a popcorn and check Slashdot.