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Spain Codifies the "Right To Broadband"

Reader adeelarshad82 writes to lets us know that Spain has now codified a "Right to Broadband," thus following the lead of Finland. Spain's industry minister announced that citizens will have a legal right from 2011 to be able to buy broadband Internet access of at least 1 Mb/sec at a regulated price wherever they live. The telecoms operator holding the so-called "universal service" contract would have to guarantee it could offer "reasonably" priced broadband throughout Spain.

23 of 312 comments (clear)

  1. Not a "right"! by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is not a "right" to anything. These people need to look up the definition and history of what a "right" is.

    This is merely a law that regulates the Internet providers, requiring them to offer service to everybody for a regulated price. That's a regulation on the business side, not a "right" on the consumer's side. There is a pretty big difference. If it were a "right", it would not cost anything.

    We have similar laws. For example, within certain geographical limits, my local utility is required to offer me electricity at a regulated rate, no matter who I am. It's exactly the same kind of law. But that doesn't mean I have a "right" to electricity! If I get too far behind on my bill it can get shut off. It's merely the ability to buy something, not a "right" to it. If I had a "right" to electricity, nobody could legally shut it off.

    1. Re:Not a "right"! by Razalhague · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's a right to buy.

    2. Re:Not a "right"! by sopssa · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's a right to get at least a 1mbps internet connection at reasonable price. It is still a right.

    3. Re:Not a "right"! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Then, all the spanish constitution is wrong.
      It says things like "you have the right of a worthy house"
      (meaning that the government will try that everybody should be able to buy a acceptable house)

      (Sorry for my horrible english).

    4. Re:Not a "right"! by dingen · · Score: 4, Informative

      If I had a "right" to electricity, nobody could legally shut it off.

      I don't know about the situation in your country, but here in the Netherlands your water supply is not free, but you also cannot be cut off, because every citizen has the right to running water in their house. The same thing goes with gas during winter, because you cannot deny people the ability to warm their homes, even if they don't pay for it.

      Education is another example. It's not only a right, it's even mandatory for children under 16, even though there is a fee to have your kid in a school.

      Having the right to something doesn't mean you get it for free.

      --
      Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
    5. Re:Not a "right"! by Walzmyn · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No it's not a right. It's a guarantee. "If you pay this contractor, we guarantee this contractor will provide this minimal service."

      If it were a right, then you would have a right to these people (the contractors) work, that's called slavery.

      It's the same thing with this so-called right to healthcare here in the states. You might have a right not to be denied service because of your skin color or country of birth but you do not have a "right" to the efforts of other individuals.

    6. Re:Not a "right"! by BeardsmoreA · · Score: 3, Insightful

      All of this is nit picking over the definition of the word 'right'. It has more than one meaning! Generally, the precise meaning is determined by who we are saying is 'giving' the right - and in the case of 'basic human rights' we usually imply that either 'the natural order of things' or $DEITY 'gave' the rights. All rights do not have to be innate though - I can contractually give you a right of access across my land. In the case of TFA we are talking about a government / constitutionally granted right. Ok? Can we all stop arguing semantics now? Kthx.

    7. Re:Not a "right"! by zach_the_lizard · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is not a "right" to anything. These people need to look up the definition and history of what a "right" is.

      It entirely depends on what sort of philosophy you happen to believe in. Religious people can claim that they have rights, and that they are derived from the existence of their god(s). Others have attempted to create systems of rights that are entirely objective, independent of any deity or supernatural forces. Debates on this have been raging for millenia between all sorts of greater and lesser philosophers. Immanuel Kant, for example, claimed to derive natural rights from reason alone. Legalistic individuals could also say our rights are exactly what the laws say they are.

      --
      SSC
    8. Re:Not a "right"! by fnj · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wrong, actually. Just because you have a right to free speech does not mean your nanny state has to bus you wherever you want to go to vent your spleen, build you a platform, buy you a bullhorn, and dragoon a bunch of losers into listening to you stammer, ramble, and make an ass of yourself.

      Or, what if your declaration of independence asserts that you have a right to life. That doesn't mean your nanny state has to give you an armored car so nobody shoots you, a chauffeur so you don't hit a tree while you're texting, and a bulletproof vest for when you are shopping or watching the opera. They don't have to stop traffic so nobody can collide with you. They don't have to clothe and feed you so you don't die of exposure or starve to death. They don't have to wipe your ass so flies don't gather and give you a disease. They don't have to watch you 24x7 and come and put you on life support every time you overdose on some self indulgence, let alone stop you doing it in the first place.

      The right to broadband mentioned in the article says that no matter where you live, somebody has to OFFER to sell you broadband at a reasonable price. That's a DAMN sight more than you get in the U.S. on this subject.

    9. Re:Not a "right"! by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yesterday I heard people saying it's okay for President Obama to block FOX's access to the white house press pool. They said "FOX has a right to freedom of the press. They don't have the right to access." Couldn't the same argument be made about internet? You have the right to buy any product you want, but that doesn't mean you have a right to broadband access. Everyone already had dialup access. Thoughts? Objections?

      (No this is not a troll. This is the Socratic method (asking questions; making people think).)

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    10. Re:Not a "right"! by amplt1337 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It makes no logical sense to say that an innate quality of the human body can be removed.

      This is the fundamental fallacy of the doctrine of innate rights.
      Any actual part of the human body can be removed. People can be born without them, they can become defective and degrade over time. None of those properties apply to rights (as you're conceiving them), which means they're non-corporeal. In fact, there's no objective way to demonstrate that they exist at all. If I make the claim that every man has a Y chromosome, there is objective proof, with some edge cases that don't apply. If I make the claim that every man has the right of free speech & access to information, there can be no objective proof.

      There is no reliable basis upon which to determine that a "natural right" exists as an objective property of nature. As a demonstration, try to disprove the existence of a right you do not believe in, such as the right of every man to have three wives if he wishes.

      The only way "natural rights" make sense is if we understand the term "natural right" to mean "a legal right to which I think every person should be entitled." There is no way to remove the subjectivity from that statement, and that's okay. At the end of the day, we make our decisions based on what rights we, subjectively, think people should have. It's just better not to give them grand airs as some universal property of nature, rather than reflecting part our system of preferences (which we're ready to defend by force of arms).

      --
      Freedom isn't free; its price is the well-being of others.
    11. Re:Not a "right"! by Khisanth+Magus · · Score: 3, Informative

      You do know that fox was sued, and the courts ruled that they are not obliged to tell the truth in their "news", right?

  2. Re:Before people start complaining that its only 1 by sopssa · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Maybe I'm answering to a flamebait, but theres nothing wrong with web applications. Many people want to have their email in webmail instead of using a client. Many people write to forums, news sites and sites like slashdot instead of newsgroups (as you seem to do too). Many people are perfectly fine using twitter and facebook for communicating (facebook even has that IM "client"). And because bandwidth is considerably cheap now a days (well in some countries at least, and it's getting there everywhere too), it becomes easier for people to upload a video file to a web service to convert it to another format than to download all the required codecs and find a software that can do it. Remember that majority of people aren't geeks.

    That doesn't mean there's no desktop application alternatives and that you couldn't use them. I do for email, IM and many more things because it suits me better. But it doesn't mean other people couldn't do otherwise.

    If you do not like those web applications developed by "modern hipster web devs", just don't use them and let people who like them use.

    (and 1mbps is the minimum guaranteed speed in the news)

  3. Same Reason that Telephone Service is Regulated by reporter · · Score: 5, Insightful
    What Madrid is doing is basically what is being done in super-free market, the United States of America. American phone companies are required by state regulators to provide low-cost land-line phone service to citizens whom state laws consider to be indigent. This government subsidy is necessary because the phone is necessary to live adequately in modern society. The phone connects you to emergency services via 911. The phone connects you to the manager (who works you like a slave). The phone connects you to your family. The phone is nearly as important as food, shelter, and clothing.

    With the coming of age of the Internet, it will soon be as important as phone service. With the Internet, you can get legal information about registering your vehicle, and about smog-check stations, about filing a complaint with the relevant state agency. You can get information about universities. You can check whether your jury group is required to appear in court on a particular day.

    10 years ago, the Internet was an exciting fad. Now, the Internet is an indispensable tool for living in modern society.

    Of course, the best use of the Internet is to read articles on Slashdot.

  4. Re:Legality by ChowRiit · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Everything's hated by someone, and I'm fairly sure the Lisbon Treaty doesn't give the EU "carte blanche". I freely admit I know relatively little about the Lisbon Treaty, but I do know that unjustified hyperbole isn't going to help your argument.

  5. Re:Before people start complaining that its only 1 by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You've confused efficiency with convenience.

    A good developer will attend to function first and form second. Part of function is efficiency.
    A bad developer barely even understands the concept of efficiency and function is frequently their last priority - just barely enough of a requirement to justify the site in the first place.

    Look at slashdot for fuck's sake - you can't even metamod without javascript.
    Like we need fucking javascript to click a fucking radio button for good/bad/no-rating?

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  6. Re:Legality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    First, the Lisbon treaty is far from being hated. Most people are in fact pretty indifferent about it, and a sizeable percentage of the population (especially the more informed art) actually support it. Second, it doesn't give anyone a carte blanche to do anything, I'd suggest you actually read the treaty before making such wild (and completely ridiculous) statements.

    Also, "the EU" doesn't want to do anything. Some members of the european commission have expressed sympathy for cutting off offenders, the european parliament is opposed to it. But that question has nothing to do with what the article speaks about, since everything that the spanish government does is to force the major telcos to offer a 1MB connection at a "reasonable" price everywhere in the country. If you can't or don't want to pay, you still get nothing. This wouldn't contradict any law to cut off offenders either. It's effectively the same as with a phone line, the major telcos are forced to offer you a phone line anywhere in the country, but if you don't pay your bill you can still be cut off.

  7. A serious question by Vinegar+Joe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Last year, Spain granted human rights to apes:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/14/opinion/14mon4.html

    Does this mean apes also have the right to broadband? And please, no jokes about Nigerian scammers.

    --
    "The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
    1. Re:A serious question by Idiomatick · · Score: 5, Insightful

      legal rights != human rights

      Pretty big difference. In most countries there are cruelty to animals laws. This could be easily rewritten as an animal charter of rights to not have to go through torture. Nothing to see here, move along.

  8. Re:Before people start complaining that its only 1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    a good web developer focuses on form _and_ function. In web development space, at least, they are equally important. things have to look as good as well as they perform. why is it that people always think it has to be one or the other.

    maybe at slashdot at least, people here generally prefer the function part.

  9. Re:Before people start complaining that its only 1 by Idiomatick · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "A good developer will attend to function first and form second."
    Depends on the application...

    "Part of function is efficiency."
    And part of efficiency/functionality is form.

  10. Re:Legality by Wowsers · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The Lisbon Treaty is self amending. There does not need to be another vote for anything by the people. I think that qualifies as "carte blanche" for them to do what they like.

    --
    Take Nobody's Word For It.
  11. Re:Legality by Hackie_Chan · · Score: 3, Informative

    While I strongly disagree with everything you claimed and find it to actually have no relevance to this discussion, let me point out that since 1963 it has been virtually been agreed to that European Union law is supreme to member state law. Here's the verdict:

    By contrast with ordinary international treaties, the EEC Treaty has created its own legal system which, on the entry into force of the Treaty, became an integral part of the legal systems of the member states and which their courts are bound to apply.

    By creating a community of unlimited duration, having its own institutions, its own personality, its own legal capacity and capacityof representation on the international plane and, more particularly, real powers stemming from a limitation of sovereignty or a transfer of powers from the states to the community, the Member States have limited their sovereign rights, albeit within limited fields, and have thus created a body of law which binds both their nationals and themselves ..

    --

    What's so bad about being lazy? What if there was a war and nobody showed up?