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AU Senator Calls Scientology a "Criminal Organization"
An anonymous reader passes along news that an Australian senator, Nick Xenophon, has denounced the Church of Scientology as "a criminal organization" from the floor of Parliament. "Senator Xenophon used a speech in Parliament last night to raise allegations of widespread criminal conduct within the church, saying he had received letters from former followers detailing claims of abuse, false imprisonment, and forced abortion. He says he has passed on the letters to the police and is calling for a Senate inquiry into the religion and its tax-exempt status." It wasn't that long ago that the CoS was calling for Net censorship in Australia; a month later the organization was convicted of fraud in France.
To me, all religions are a scam. Some have been around longer than others and thus emanate a sense of legitimacy but they're mostly cults with a God that we offer our prayers and money to in return for a hope of a better life.
Religions come and go, their Gods are offered gold, placed upon altars and have great building and churches erected in their names - and yet, people die of violence, starvation, and famine. Their Gods grow weak and frail, their subjects grow old and a new religion eventually emerges and takes its place as the new "true" religion. A sad cycle indeed.
The magical number is: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
That's fairly rare among politicians. Congratuations, Austraila!
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I don't like Scientology either but I value my freedom to associate.
Should all associations be given tax-free status? If not, then what conditions deserve tax-free status, and should that status be irrevocable once obtained?
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Pretty OT here but with people making Xenu gags because of the name its worth point out that Xenophon's Conversations with Socrates is one of the few sources for views of the great Greek philosopher and orator.
CoS are of course a shill, its not even a very clever shill, their "e-meters" are almost as dumb as the bullet proof pants that the Mormons try and pedal.
Why should any religion get tax status? They aren't a charity, the money is primarily there to support their own organisation. They are selling a product called "salvation" and people are paying money in the belief they are getting something back.
Socrates wasn't the biggest fan of religion either... question everything.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
"Someone get me an e-meter, quick!"
I'm afraid sir you'll have to buy your own. This is a religion not a charity.
For those unfamiliar with the australian parliment - the definition of what "Parliamentary Privilege" is: http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/pubs/briefs/brief11.htm#1
I think you miss understand the purpose of "parliamentary privilege", my fellow australian. Our elected representitives can discuss such issues as the authenticity of Scientology, without fear of slander/libel suits or gag orders or general legal hoop-la to silence their criticisms. It is their role to raise issues of their consitutents in such as manner, so that members of the public can come forth/organise/e.t.c to provide the necessary PROOF that the laws are being broken. Then the appropriate law enforcement agency can be engaged.
Sorry mate - I don't want to live in your world where if no-one talks about a problem it doesn't exist - that's just plain foolish.
But regardless, by READING THE FIRETRUCKING ARTICLE, you would have encountered the first two paragraphs stating:
"Senator Xenophon used a speech in Parliament last night to raise allegations of widespread criminal conduct within the church, saying he had received letters from former followers detailing claims of abuse, false imprisonment and forced abortion.
He says he has passed on the letters to the police and is calling for a Senate inquiry into the religion and its tax-exempt status."
First sentence of your post: "If you think a person has broken the law then call the cops" ... Check - he's passed on the letters to the police. ... Unless you're a scientologist too...
As for the rest - I can't believe you're trying to align criticism of Scientology with an attack on your freedom to associate
Addendum: For those in America - Australia doesn't have a "Bill of Rights". We work on the principle you have a right to everything, unless prohibited by law. There's no explicit listing of rights that you guys have ... YFMV? (Your Freedom May Vary)
I am sure there are plenty. The difference is in Australia these politicians are occasionally voted into office.
Religions aren't about money and mind control? Really? That's an incredibly naive statement.
I see Operation Clambake and raise you the house arrest of Galileo, the crusades, 9/11, Salem Witch Trials, etc, etc, etc, etc. The list is pretty long...
As he should. I don't agree with the man on most of his points, but I can appreciate someone getting up and metaphorically saying "Are you fucking serious?!" to the rest of the parasites he has to work with.
A government should be doing what is best for the country, not what is seen to be most politically correct - at least Nick is working on getting that to happen.
Even if he is a filthy South Australian.
Me failed English...
FreeBSD over Linux. If my comments seem odd, this may explain...
The sad truth is that religions become centres of power, and centres of power attract criminals. It's interesting to see how even the green movement is being plagued with criminals selling people massively uneconomic wind and solar systems, because people's desire to do good often exceeds their ability to see through bullshit. But some religions - Zen, Quakers, Reform Judaism, the liberal wing of the Episcopalian Church - have proven very resistant to criminal infiltration. That's possibly because they attract mainly very educated people. To be blunt, one reason Scientology is so successful might be because it has targeted the rich and gullible.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
From an outsider's perspective (atheist) it is a mistake to think that scientology isn't any more corrupt or evil than any other organized religion in the world. Not all religions have specific tenets requiring you to part with large amounts of money to simply read their 'scriptures'. Not all religions specifically attempt to stop members from contacting their families who are non-believers. Not all religions embark on well funded, well organised and effective smear campaigns against ex members. Not all religions have private internment camps for members who are being wayward.
To think that Scientology is on a par with the average world religion is a relativist mistake.
I attend a church that regularly meets with other churches (of different beliefs, islamic, jewish, etc) to discuss how to best focus thier efforts to improve the community around them. They offer aid to needy families, the just released the parish budget last week showing how our money was used to give over 154,000 dollars to the local community in money alone. I would hazard that over 50,000 hours of time are devoted each year to the local community by our parish alone, not including the mosques and temples whose members also donate their own time. Friends of the night people, GoodWill, Catholic Charities, Shalom House, The Family Development Center. They have open discussions on the ideas of women priests and gay rights. The church is "in charge" if you believe it in, in keep you safe, in advising you in all aspects of your life. They don't want to discriminate, but they also don't want to simply give the "go ahead" over traditional beliefs. It's a slow changing organization, and that is their biggest failing, but it is not the ignorant body of mindless followers you describe.
You seem to be stuck on the idea that if a religion has ever done anything wrong, than it can never be right. You are equating the minds and education of people in the 1000 AD with people in 2000 AD. These people believed that gassy food from your stomach would rise through your body and cause blindness (John Milton). They thought that the body consisted of four humors and there was no proper education to aid them.
The fact that you equate a time when most of the church was uneducated and fearful to today is simply ignorant of our own history. If scientology existed in 1000 AD and was pulling this stuff, then fine. I agree, while I don't believe their view, they are no different. But it is not 10 AD, it's not even 1500, 1700, or 1800. The Catholic church supports evolution, the big bang, and has officially adopted all the most modern scientific positions. They have dedicated and inspired millions of people to work harder at a better world. If the church starts a new crusade you can bet I'll be out in a heartbeat, but they won't. They have grown smarter as our people have, and we will continue to work on making sure we are not adhering to meaningless tradition while putting real help into the world.
I cannot defend the actions of religious leaders over 1000 years ago, and I shouldn't have to. If the church of Scientology stops suing people and starts helping I'll gladly back off of them. Likewise if the bible ever become a "for pay" book, I'll be banging on my church door for change.
The Catholic Church, and many other churches, do a myriad of good in the world today. Whatever their individual beliefs, they help atheists and non-believers a like because it is their duty. They may be wrong sometimes, in fact there are things in the church I don't agree with (gay rights is one of them) but the true churches are not hunting down "the gays" they welcome them to talk, to understand, and to try and figure out who needs to change.
The moment I see a group of atheists give this kind of consideration to their fellow man, the day they offer over millions of dollars and man hours to the welfare of man kind, the moment they come together and actually practice the "humanity without religion" they so often preach, the moment they a start viewing mankind as a being with dignity and not a lump of flesh to be abused, well sir, then I will eat my hat.
>"Someone get me an e-meter, quick!"
>I'm afraid sir you'll have to buy your own. This is a business not a religion.
Fixed that for ya.
Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce