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AU Senator Calls Scientology a "Criminal Organization"
An anonymous reader passes along news that an Australian senator, Nick Xenophon, has denounced the Church of Scientology as "a criminal organization" from the floor of Parliament. "Senator Xenophon used a speech in Parliament last night to raise allegations of widespread criminal conduct within the church, saying he had received letters from former followers detailing claims of abuse, false imprisonment, and forced abortion. He says he has passed on the letters to the police and is calling for a Senate inquiry into the religion and its tax-exempt status." It wasn't that long ago that the CoS was calling for Net censorship in Australia; a month later the organization was convicted of fraud in France.
Senator Xenophon? He must be in the clutches of Xenu! Someone get me an e-meter, quick!
512 MB RAM, 20 GB disk, 200 GB transfer, five datacenters. $19.95/month.
Good
I can't help but wonder if the COS would even exist without its tax exempt status. Sure the people up top would be doing well like any pyramid scheme but would there be such an incentive for new members to join without the tax exemption?
Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
To me, all religions are a scam. Some have been around longer than others and thus emanate a sense of legitimacy but they're mostly cults with a God that we offer our prayers and money to in return for a hope of a better life.
Religions come and go, their Gods are offered gold, placed upon altars and have great building and churches erected in their names - and yet, people die of violence, starvation, and famine. Their Gods grow weak and frail, their subjects grow old and a new religion eventually emerges and takes its place as the new "true" religion. A sad cycle indeed.
The magical number is: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Anyone else shocked that a failed entrepreneur discovers a religion that requires significant capital outlay from it's followers? Hm....me either. Just google "e-meter"
Did you read what he said? Oh that's right, this is /.
All he is saying is that we should question the tax free status of Scientology. He then gave some examples of what the cult does.
It wasn't that long ago that the CoS was calling for Net censorship in Australia; a month later the organization was convicted of fraud in France.
So does the CoS have to call for Net censorship in Belgium before Australia can convict them of fraud?
My webcomic
That's fairly rare among politicians. Congratuations, Austraila!
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Nick Xenophon is the only independenr of the Australian Senate. I wonder if that is related, as he doesnt have to please his party?
Would that make Xenophon a Xenuphobe? ... to be fair, I got that line from Dominic Knight's Twitter feed :)
I don't like Scientology either but I value my freedom to associate.
Should all associations be given tax-free status? If not, then what conditions deserve tax-free status, and should that status be irrevocable once obtained?
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
We all know how Scientology works. If you don't, look it up.
What method of assassination will Scientology take?
1) Physical Assassination
2) Assassination of Character and Reputation
3) Assassination of Assets
4) Assassination of Family Members
5) Something Else
6) All of the Above
Really, don't expect this guy to be around much longer.
Pretty OT here but with people making Xenu gags because of the name its worth point out that Xenophon's Conversations with Socrates is one of the few sources for views of the great Greek philosopher and orator.
CoS are of course a shill, its not even a very clever shill, their "e-meters" are almost as dumb as the bullet proof pants that the Mormons try and pedal.
Why should any religion get tax status? They aren't a charity, the money is primarily there to support their own organisation. They are selling a product called "salvation" and people are paying money in the belief they are getting something back.
Socrates wasn't the biggest fan of religion either... question everything.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
An "anonymous" reader. Hm, ironic?
For those unfamiliar with the australian parliment - the definition of what "Parliamentary Privilege" is: http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/pubs/briefs/brief11.htm#1
I think you miss understand the purpose of "parliamentary privilege", my fellow australian. Our elected representitives can discuss such issues as the authenticity of Scientology, without fear of slander/libel suits or gag orders or general legal hoop-la to silence their criticisms. It is their role to raise issues of their consitutents in such as manner, so that members of the public can come forth/organise/e.t.c to provide the necessary PROOF that the laws are being broken. Then the appropriate law enforcement agency can be engaged.
Sorry mate - I don't want to live in your world where if no-one talks about a problem it doesn't exist - that's just plain foolish.
But regardless, by READING THE FIRETRUCKING ARTICLE, you would have encountered the first two paragraphs stating:
"Senator Xenophon used a speech in Parliament last night to raise allegations of widespread criminal conduct within the church, saying he had received letters from former followers detailing claims of abuse, false imprisonment and forced abortion.
He says he has passed on the letters to the police and is calling for a Senate inquiry into the religion and its tax-exempt status."
First sentence of your post: "If you think a person has broken the law then call the cops" ... Check - he's passed on the letters to the police. ... Unless you're a scientologist too...
As for the rest - I can't believe you're trying to align criticism of Scientology with an attack on your freedom to associate
Addendum: For those in America - Australia doesn't have a "Bill of Rights". We work on the principle you have a right to everything, unless prohibited by law. There's no explicit listing of rights that you guys have ... YFMV? (Your Freedom May Vary)
Xenophon, for those unfamiliar, was an ancient Greek general best known for writing The Anabasis -- an account of the trials and adventures of The Ten Thousand, a group of Greek mercenaries hired by Cyrus the Younger. After he's killed in battle, the Greeks have to march back to Greece from deep within enemy territory. It's quite a thrilling tale with plenty of action and treachery. Surprised they haven't made a movie out of it a la 300.
If I was Mr. Xenophon, I'd rather go up against the Persians than the Scientologists :D In any event, he has an awesome last name.
Following on from the informative comment from Onetus, The Age also has a full transcript of Xenophons speech to the Senate. He makes it clear that he is tabling letters in the Senate with names removed to protect informants and innocents and has left the names in the copies sent to the Australian Federal Police.
The point of his speech is to open dialogue in the Senate with a view to holding an inquiry into the CoS tax exemption. The purpose of sending the letters to the police with original names is for the police to investigate any criminality. Kind of a pincer movement really, good on him.
From the speech:
I don't therefore I'm not.
I can only hope this means no more promotional tours from John Travolta and Tom Cruise. That's a protest I can live with and love. Also, Jenna Elfman.
"In November 2009, Xenophon labelled the Church of Scientology as a criminal organisation in a speech to the Senate. [42] This is clear evidence that he has very large testicles."
I'm not in favor of vandalism, but LOL!
Still not dead.
Kevin Rudd, Prime Minister, has said he's concerned too, and wants to see the material before calling a full inquiry.
It's a sudden outbreak of common sense in the House in the Hill, that's for sure.
Man who leaps off cliff jumps to conclusion.
nope, just an evangelical.
I'm amazed that this pyramid scheme has been allowed to continue unabated (and with tax-free status) for nigh on 40 years !
It's no more a religion than Amway, Avon or Tupperware is ... although you'd need a firemans vice to separate my mother-in-law from her overpriced plastic boxes.
Xenophon? Sounds Foreign
You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion. - L. Ron Hubbard, 1948
... glad for Austrailians. Personally I wish we had a stand up politician like him in America.
Mod Me Up. You'll make a grown man cry.
.....and I can tell you from personal experience that it really is pure concentrated evil.
Scientology has gotten away with innumerable crimes over the years in part because the average person is incapable of imagining that anything can be so completely malign in its goals. The organization is completely sociopathic.
They kicked me out because I wouldn't drink the koolaide.
If you want to know more, I recommend you check out operation clambake (www.xenu.net)
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
Maybe you should have gone with "sounds alien" - might have clicked a few more gears into place for some.
From an outsiders perspective (atheist), scientology isn't any more corrupt or evil than any other organized religion in the world. It always amuses me when people of other faiths unload on scientology, while ignoring the crap their own religions promote.
Give it a couple of thousand years, and they'll be able to join the club of Established Religion.
Scary thought? Not really. It's no different than the bronze age fairy tales that millions of people believe in today...
You haven't really researched this a lot, otherwise you wouldn't say that. Check out Operation Clambake (http://www.xenu.net). Usually, religions aren't all about money and mind control. Scientology is:
"The Church of Scientology is a vicious and dangerous cult that masquerades as a religion. Its purpose is to make money. It practices a variety of mind-control techniques on people lured into its midst to gain control over their money and their lives. Its aim is to take from them every penny that they have and can ever borrow and to also enslave them to further its wicked ends." (cited from xenu.net)
Religions aren't about money and mind control? Really? That's an incredibly naive statement.
I see Operation Clambake and raise you the house arrest of Galileo, the crusades, 9/11, Salem Witch Trials, etc, etc, etc, etc. The list is pretty long...
Nooooo! Somebody please stop the Australians before the Americans wake up, or else Tom Cruise is going to jump up and down on the sofa again!
Scientologists went after Slashdot with lawyers some time ago and forced the only deliberate comment removal from this site. That is why it is on topic here.
Alan Grayson
Republicans attempt to cut off Rep Grayson's speech
His Youtube channel: RepAlanGrayson
Note, that he has balls and he is on a war against the republicans in congress, this means he is going against lobbyists and their underlying corporate masters, this is like going against 10000 CoSs at once.
You can't handle the truth.
we need to get rid of the rest of the religions and we might just save humanity.
I'm not sure its religion, as such, thats the problem. I think its monotheism.
Monotheism creates a kind of mono-mania in people where they can only perceive one very specific way of looking at the world as being 'correct'.
Take Hinduism as a contrast. Hinduism contains within itself as much variation as you'd find between, say Christianity and Taoism.
And then look at the behaviors of these entities that Christians, Jews and Moslems call 'God'.
Judging these so-called 'Gods' by their behaviors as documented in their *own* 'holy' scriptures, I'd have to characterize Christianity, Islam and Judaism as devil-worship.
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
Thank the Hollywood stars who keep funding it.
It should have been dissolved in France but what happened instead is really shameful. The judge was probably going to order the dissolution of the scientology, considered culprit of being a criminal organization of fraudulent aim (that means that money was considered their driving motivation). But two weeks before the verdict (a perfect synchronization). Our parliament made a "mistake". Inside a huge corpus of law modification (aimed at simplifying the laws regarding buisnesses and companies), someone "inadvertently" put a law removing the dissolution as a possible verdict for fraud. Nobody was able to point out the person who put this amendment (how comes !?) and everybody said it was a mistake and they would correct it with a new law. Unfortunately, the verdict was due two weeks later and instead of dissolution, the scientology got a record fine.
They are loosing adepts, but they still have people in the higher spheres...
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
If people in the CoS have broken laws then that says nothing about other people who associate with that organization.
Interesting argument. Think it would work for the mob?
The simple fact is, that CoS members acting on direct orders from their top leaders have repeatedly committed crimes. This is a matter of public record in about half a dozen countries. It would take you all of a minute with Google to find any number of examples.
Sure, there may be some lower-level clambots who have a clean rap sheet (so far), but the truth is that as soon as anyone starts moving up in the hierarchy, they are prevailed upon to participate in fraud to extract as much money as possible from the marks.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
The sad truth is that religions become centres of power, and centres of power attract criminals. It's interesting to see how even the green movement is being plagued with criminals selling people massively uneconomic wind and solar systems, because people's desire to do good often exceeds their ability to see through bullshit. But some religions - Zen, Quakers, Reform Judaism, the liberal wing of the Episcopalian Church - have proven very resistant to criminal infiltration. That's possibly because they attract mainly very educated people. To be blunt, one reason Scientology is so successful might be because it has targeted the rich and gullible.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
From an outsider's perspective (atheist) it is a mistake to think that scientology isn't any more corrupt or evil than any other organized religion in the world. Not all religions have specific tenets requiring you to part with large amounts of money to simply read their 'scriptures'. Not all religions specifically attempt to stop members from contacting their families who are non-believers. Not all religions embark on well funded, well organised and effective smear campaigns against ex members. Not all religions have private internment camps for members who are being wayward.
To think that Scientology is on a par with the average world religion is a relativist mistake.
Here's the fundamental difference between Scientology (and a lot of dangerous cults) and real religions (established or otherwise): Walk up to a member of the clergy or lay leader, and ask them the fundamental tenants of what they believe. Any real religion will rattle off a few tenants, point you to some literature and/or holy books, explain the nature of their rituals and public services, and so forth. The point is to spread the ideas as much as possible, and they'll welcome the opportunity to do so. This is true whether you're talking to a Christian minister, a Jewish rabbi, a Muslim imam, a Voudoun priest, a Wiccan priestess, or Ivan Stang of the Church of the SubGenius.
With a cult, if you walk up to the clergy and lay leader, they'll change the discussion from an evaluation of their faith to an evaluation of you. For Scientologists, that's what the initial auditing process is about. Instead of giving you the information you need to decide whether the faith is worthy of your support, they collect information to decide whether you are worthy of the faith. And since people don't like to see themselves as failures (as a general rule), many folks will react to this by trying to prove themselves worthy. And in the often complex process of proving themselves worthy, they will commit themselves more and more fully to the cult, without really knowing what they're getting into.
I am officially gone from
Nope, that's the other independant senator Steve Fielding from the Family First evangelicals.
Nick Xenophon is from the 'No Pokies' party, and doesn't interfere his religion with his politics.
Whenever there's something about CoS it seems like there's a crowd of people who chime in with, "But ALL religions are corrupt, criminal, and commercial." Which inevitably leads to the conclusion that, if you happen to not have a problem with religion in general, you must accept anything which calls itself a religion, or become an atheist.
Here's the problem. We'll put aside my Pollyanna-esque belief that most of the time religions really are about a genuine and sincere effort to understand the metaphysical aspects of existence. Yes, the Catholic church is responsible for suppression of science and learning, set up the "indulgence" system, and a host of other sins. Keep in mind, however, that the Catholic church was the last vestige of Roman-style socio-political organization after the fall of the empire. While the West dissolved, the Catholic church was the closest thing to a stable government that was able to provide legitimacy to regional and local rulers, preserve some measure of learning, and mitigate internal conflict. Not until the Treaty of Westphalia does the modern concept of the state enter into Western thinking, and that was well after the Inquisition's height. So, yes, the Catholic church has done some nasty things, but compare it to any other nation-state if you want an appropriate ethical comparison.
CoS, on the other hand, actively seeks to defraud individuals through a deliberate pyramid-scheme. It is felonious by any legal standards, and does no charitable work to speak of. Churches, synagogues, and mosques routinely collect money from followers as a sign of devotion and as a means of maintaining themselves (literally, as in a "building fund").
Some Slashdotters appear to be confused as to the concept of nonprofit. A nonprofit organization is allowed to raise money through sales and donations in order to pay it's employees and maintain itself; it only has to show that, at the end of the day, it doesn't have any money.
This unbiased moderation brought to you by the Porcine Aviation Group!
I see Operation Clambake and raise you the house arrest of Galileo, the crusades, 9/11, Salem Witch Trials, etc, etc, etc, etc. The list is pretty long...
house arrest of Galileo... Maybe, but it had less to do with the Religion of Christianity, and more to do with personal insults to the Pope.
the crusades... No. The crusades had nothing to do with religion. Entirely political on both sides. After they were under way, they were retconned into a "religious" movement to garner support.
9/11... Which religion says "Kill people indiscriminately, whether believers or not" (there had to have been Muslims working in the towers)? I think you're mistaking criminally insane with religious. Given your bias, that's understandable, but unfortunate.
Salem Witch Trials... Again, Christianity doesn't say "burn witches and sorcerers" In the Bible only example of sorcerers that the apostles meet are either accepted into the Way (and their books/scrolls burned), or denounced and otherwise left alone. The Salem Witch trials came about because stupid people - who happened to be extremely religious and thus invoked God in everything including criminal trials - were afraid of their own neighbors.
etc, etc, etc, etc... Hmm, you may have something there. etc did have the people of etc doing etc for the religion of etc. I suppose etc may have to be lumped in with Scifientology.
I attend a church that regularly meets with other churches (of different beliefs, islamic, jewish, etc) to discuss how to best focus thier efforts to improve the community around them. They offer aid to needy families, the just released the parish budget last week showing how our money was used to give over 154,000 dollars to the local community in money alone. I would hazard that over 50,000 hours of time are devoted each year to the local community by our parish alone, not including the mosques and temples whose members also donate their own time. Friends of the night people, GoodWill, Catholic Charities, Shalom House, The Family Development Center. They have open discussions on the ideas of women priests and gay rights. The church is "in charge" if you believe it in, in keep you safe, in advising you in all aspects of your life. They don't want to discriminate, but they also don't want to simply give the "go ahead" over traditional beliefs. It's a slow changing organization, and that is their biggest failing, but it is not the ignorant body of mindless followers you describe.
You seem to be stuck on the idea that if a religion has ever done anything wrong, than it can never be right. You are equating the minds and education of people in the 1000 AD with people in 2000 AD. These people believed that gassy food from your stomach would rise through your body and cause blindness (John Milton). They thought that the body consisted of four humors and there was no proper education to aid them.
The fact that you equate a time when most of the church was uneducated and fearful to today is simply ignorant of our own history. If scientology existed in 1000 AD and was pulling this stuff, then fine. I agree, while I don't believe their view, they are no different. But it is not 10 AD, it's not even 1500, 1700, or 1800. The Catholic church supports evolution, the big bang, and has officially adopted all the most modern scientific positions. They have dedicated and inspired millions of people to work harder at a better world. If the church starts a new crusade you can bet I'll be out in a heartbeat, but they won't. They have grown smarter as our people have, and we will continue to work on making sure we are not adhering to meaningless tradition while putting real help into the world.
I cannot defend the actions of religious leaders over 1000 years ago, and I shouldn't have to. If the church of Scientology stops suing people and starts helping I'll gladly back off of them. Likewise if the bible ever become a "for pay" book, I'll be banging on my church door for change.
The Catholic Church, and many other churches, do a myriad of good in the world today. Whatever their individual beliefs, they help atheists and non-believers a like because it is their duty. They may be wrong sometimes, in fact there are things in the church I don't agree with (gay rights is one of them) but the true churches are not hunting down "the gays" they welcome them to talk, to understand, and to try and figure out who needs to change.
The moment I see a group of atheists give this kind of consideration to their fellow man, the day they offer over millions of dollars and man hours to the welfare of man kind, the moment they come together and actually practice the "humanity without religion" they so often preach, the moment they a start viewing mankind as a being with dignity and not a lump of flesh to be abused, well sir, then I will eat my hat.
Scientology is a criminal organization with a history of stalking and harassment, as well allegations of burglary, intimidation, kidnapping, bribery, attacks on the U.S. government (specifically the FBI), and murder both direct and through neglect.
Scientology's own documents show they believe in terrorizing and murdering anyone who opposed them.
It should be perfectly legal to use Scientology's own "auditing process R2-45" on every single member.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
If they're really operating as a non-profit, then their year-over-year balance shouldn't really be increasing that much.
Speaking as a certified accountant, non-profit status has NOTHING inherently to do with the amount of cash they hold. A non-profit organization simply does not distribute its surplus assets to owners or shareholders and instead uses them to further the goals of the organization. If holding a lot of cash would further the goals of the organization they can do that. The IRS might review their status if they are holding a lot of cash for no obvious purpose but by itself it means nothing. Foundations typically have large amounts of cash and moderately liquid investments. Non-profit organization can have a significant rise in assets and that is fine. Many hospitals and hospital systems are non-profit but they have large amounts of cash and other assets and frequently grow significantly.
Personally I question the idea that being non-profit should mean tax exempt (especially for religions with vast assets) unless it is an organization with a clear charitable charter but I didn't write the rules.
Greece isn't foreign?
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
There is a certain amount of evidence that the Witch Trials were largely about acquiring some valuable land without going through the conventional process of paying for it. So including it as a "religious" issue is perhaps unwarranted.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
This is not specific to Islam, sorry. It was typical of the culture that existed pre-Islam in the parts of the world where Islam began.
Note, by the way, that "arranged marriages" were the norm throughout most of history. It's only in recent centuries that we've become wealthy enough to allow ourselves the luxury of marrying whomever we will.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
You make it sound like hindu fundamentalism doesn't exist. They make up a large bloq in Indian politics and social structure.
-molo
Using your sig line to advertise for friends is lame.
Seriously.