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Pittsburgh To Tax Students
societyofrobots writes "Pittsburgh Mayor Luke Ravenstahl has proposed taxing college and professional students for the privilege of receiving an education in the city. The proposed tax will charge students in the city at a rate of 1% of their yearly tuition — which, at Carnegie Mellon, would mean roughly a $400 tax (PDF) on most students. As the tax proposal hit local media outlets this week, the mayor repeatedly emphasized the burden that college students have placed on city services, and the need for students to pay their 'fair share.'"
In Boston most colleges and universities are exempt from property taxes. The city has been trying for years to figure out ways to squeeze them for the extra cash. We've heard the "pay their fair share" argument as well.Boston Globe Article
The Mayor of Providence has proposed a similar tax in providence, although it would "only" be $150/student as opposed to $400. The arguments being made in both cities seem to be exactly the same: Students need to pay their "fair share". I'm kind of curious how we don't already pay our fair share, though, given that anyone who lives off campus pays property taxes and we bring millions into the local economy. (And in Providence, we're all the local economy has left)
Now I'm not one to go shouting about the Government and taxes, but student taxes are very clearly a form of regressive taxation. It just doesn't make sense to be trying to take money from a group of people who don't have all that much of it in the first place. But that seems to be the trend of taxation lately, more and more regressive so rich people can keep all of their "hard earned" money.
Actually, they did that too.... http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cityregion/s_516110.html
Carnegie Mellon is not a state school. Their tuition is $40,300 per year. http://www.cmu.edu/hub/sa/sa_tuition.html
It's often best to know what you're talking about before opening your mouth.
I'm not defending higher taxes, but I want to give some context, Pittsburgh has a high percentage of it's economy that comes from non-profit entities such as universities and hospitals from which they don't collect the same amount of taxes as they would from a for profit company. This has always been a problem for Pittsburgh, even when the economy wasn't bad. And while the students do pay some local taxes (sales taxes, etc) other people who work in Pittsburgh pay those taxes, plus they also pay income taxes. So, in general, students pay less taxes per person compared to other employed people. A fairness argument is tough to gauge though. Is it fair to tax to students on tuition (money that students need to PAY compared to income that they EARN)? Is it fair to charge more to CMU students compared to Pitt students just because they pay more tuition? Are they going to take into account the level of student aid you get? Do students use up the same level of city services as other people who work in the city? They don't tend to drive much. Campuses have their own police forces. This is something that has been coming for some time. I was once audited by the City of Pittsburgh while at CMU because I received a health insurance benefit from a previous employer and they made me prove that I could legitimately file taxes as a resident of another state. They were pretty reasonable about it and didn't end up charging me anything, but I've heard a lot a similar stories. I think another part of it is that many students (particularly at CMU) are from somewhere else and the city sees them as an opportunity to tax "outsiders".
I live in Pittsburgh and I'll attest to the fact that downtown Oakland is pretty much CMU, Pitt, and UPMC, and a few establishments that cater to students. There really isn't a whole lot more besides that down there...bunch of bars on the other side of the river in South Side, though.
I'm actually quite surprised that the universities are so completely tax free. Certainly, though, off-campus students are paying property taxes and stuff, yeah?
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what services do they use a lot of? My local university has their own libraries, police department, and pays for the "free" municipal bus routes (all paid for by tuition and admin fees). A large chunk of my property taxes are paying for 1-12 education. how many college students also bring along their 6-18 yo kid?
My state has two programs that limit the property taxes for people who own their primary residence, so people who buy a house and rent it out to students (or others) pay higher property taxes.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
CMU already has a private security force, maintains private roads, pays for garbage collection and pays the salaries for police details when they use public spaces. What makes you think they don't pay market rates for sewer and water? You think they are free? Private property owners near a university have higher than average property values due to the demand from students and staff. They would drop dramatically if the university left. You think that would make the owners happy? You should consider getting a college education.
Fine, but I'd still hope the non-profits play hardball and the city loses money in the long run. Pittsburgh's institutions are not nearly so well endowed as Boston's. If they pass the law, institutions like MIT & Harvard will take an interest in the court case. I'd expect that eventually the courts will decide that taxing the users of the services of non-profits is unconstitutional.
Anyway, Pittsburgh has no reason for existing without those non-profit institutions. I assume the city has just failed to capitalize upon their presence, possibly by not offering tax havens to university incubated start ups, etc. Otoh, this move will embitter the student population, encouraging more to depart Pittsburgh upon graduation.
In fact, all local governments have extremely over bloated budgets from the bubble, that extra money largely flowed into non-essential government spending, but local governments usually threaten to cut essential spending over non-essential, just as an excuse to raise taxes. I'd think the cleanest solution is capping the city budget at existing levels, open classify all departments as essential vs. non-essential, and say that all cuts must effect non-essential twice as much as essential. All these universities instituting tuition hikes should institute similar approaches to cutting costs.
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
CNN just reported now the State of New York is considering the same stupid idea - tax tuition of students at 5%.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Actually, Pittsburgh has managed to revive itself very nicely in the past few years, they really managed to clean up and re-image themselves after their steel industry went kaput. It is no longer really fair to compare it to Detroit, which is a shithole now more than ever.
"linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
Deregulating alcohol sales a bit would help with that. It's been a few years since I was in Pittsburgh, but last time I was there you could only buy beer and wine (in bottles, rather than to drink immediately) in a few places, most of which weren't open in the evenings or at weekends. As a brit, it was weird finding supermarkets with no alcohol section (although there is an absolutely incredible cheese shop that makes me forgive any other retail oddities in the city). If you want to pick up a bottle to take to a party, make sure you plan a few days in advance.
I found it easier to find beer in Salt Lake City than in Pittsburgh. The beer in Salt Lake City was better too...
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Also, I doubt the average tuition is $40,000.
In Canada where I live,
I don't think you quite realize how well off Canadians have it with cost of education. The two big schools in Pittsburgh are University of Pittsburgh and Carnegie Mellon. U Pitt is a state school, in-state tuition is $13-$16K a year, out of state tuition is $23-$29K a year. Carnegie Mellon is probably where the quoted figure comes from, as their tuition for entering freshman this year was $40,300. Doubt no longer.
"Until the become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious"
Good points. I'd add that both the Pitt medical researchers and the CMU professors have a choice of what city to set up their start-up companies in. If the city wants to get a reputation of playing rough, no problem...another strike against setting up a business in one of the least business-friendly places around. And, professors have a choice of where to do research. CMU and Pitt medical are always battling to get the best, and Ravenstahl's attitude will be noticed by job candidates (and current CMU/Pitt researchers) immediately. One point that has not been discussed much: $15 million of the $16 million the tax is expected to raise is earmarked by the mayor for the city pension plan (that according to the local paper this morning has been "questionably managed" - that is putting it mildly). Translation: tax the students and alienate the job-creating researchers to pay the bloated pensions of the cops who loved beating the students last month.
... Pittsburgh has a high percentage of it's economy that comes from non-profit entities such as universities ...
Pittsburgh does it to themselves sometimes. Case in point, the Syria Mosque in Oakland wanted to expand their building or parking lot, I can't remember what exactly. They tried to get the appropriate permits from the city, and guess what? They were turned down. So they sold their property to Pitt, taking it off the tax roles as Pitt is a not-for profit, and they moved out of the city to Cheswick. I have the feeling Cheswick appreciates having the Syria Mosque there and all the taxes they pay while the city of Pittsburgh did not.