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Colleges Struggling With the Digital Bathroom Wall

theodp writes "Back in the day, anonymous character assassination was confined to permanent marker scrawl in bathroom stalls. But now, thanks to sites like the student-run CollegeACB.com (ACB=Anonymous Confession Board), which can get hundreds of thousands of hits on a good day, TIME reports that anonymous slander is going viral on campus. Even the most elite universities — normally the land of the politically correct — have been struggling with the problem of anonymous gossip sites and their very un-PC posts, which an Amherst dean likens to 'the worst of junior high.' If he thinks things are bad now, wait until the kids start getting creative with Google Sidewiki."

67 of 262 comments (clear)

  1. Anonymous coward posted by hyperion2010 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Welcome to the internet, please enjoy your stay or GTFO promptly.

    1. Re:Anonymous coward posted by smitty777 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's funny how this particular thread is attracting all the Anonymous Cowards

      --
      "Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish"
      Albert Einstein
    2. Re:Anonymous coward posted by war4peace · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'll tell you:
      Let's say you are a nerd. You get some verbal slaps from a few dorks, and learn to get along with it in the end. That's life, it can'te be all roses and clear sky for everyone. But while you can grudgingly accept to be called names by a few guys, you would absolutely hate to hear the same broadcasted on the school's radio. Furthermore, you would hate it more to see such aggressive texts written on a website which everyone visits and makes fun of you.
      Remember American Pie and the shame of having an embarassing movie about you posted on a website? Now imagine yourself as the guy who gets the shaft.
      For weaker people, this might lead to psychological problems and ultimately suicide. And there's your problem right there.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    3. Re:Anonymous coward posted by BiAthlon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Natural selection would mean that it would be ok for me to beat you to death. However in civilized nations we create rules that the majority of people believe are for the greater good. These rules general serve to protect those those that need protecting.

    4. Re:Anonymous coward posted by war4peace · · Score: 5, Informative

      Sounds like natural selection to me.

      Oh wait, that wasn't the PC thing to say. I'm sorry, should I report to the Museum of Tolerance or skip that step and go straight to Tolerance Camp?

      It doesn't sound like natural selection to you if the poor kid who hangs himself in a closet is yours.

      I know a couple who have a kid. Back when she was pregnanti woth this kid, she was involved in a car accident and the kid had some birth defects. Now I don't know exactly what happend or how the condition is called (it's not a nice thing to avidly ask them for details), but he can't walk properly, when talking he mumbles horribly (I don't understand a word he's saying, but his parents can; they learned the hard way) and will most likely never go out by himself, meet a girl and/or procreate. He can write but the letters look like crap and are very hard to decipher. He's 12 now.
      Back when he was 8, his parents attempted to send him to a public school, and for about a week or two all was fine; but one day teachers found him tucked behind a garbage container; turns out some of his colleagues mocked him, prodded him, called him names and so on. Bullied him, in a word. And they finally dumped him behind that garbage container. He refused to eat or drink, his parents had to take him to the hospital, sedate him, feed him intravenously and pray he won't die. He eventually got better. By that I mean back to what is normal for him.
      So what?, would you say. Natural Selection, he'd better be off dead. Okay, but he paints. He's a bloody ARTIST, my friend. He makes art like you or I can't, and he's good at it. I've seen him do it, it's amazing. Now he's no Picasso or anything and at some points his paintings are hard to understand (my guess is he sees the world very differently from us), but it's amazing nevertheless. His parents are not interested in showing his work, they're just glad this activity makes him feel better, but when I enter their house, the walls are literally covered in his drawings. So learn this, man: not all people who can't behave like us are bound to go silently in the night.

      Now teens are living by their own standards. You're successful as a teen if you got the dough, the looks and the (sometimes chemically enhanced) sexual stamina. Whoever doesn't fit the pattern likely becomes a victim, no matter the size of his brain. When I was younger, I was respected during the IT classes/exams (because I could help all others) and at parties because I know a gazillion of jokes and I'm pretty good as an amateur stand-up comedian. That's it. I wasn't welcome to join the gang when they went to see movies or in clubs. I ain't good looking, don't have the dough and even if I'm okay in bed, I had to match first two prerequisites to be able to prove the third :) People tried to bully me, but my sheer irony managed to turn their rather limited attempts against me, so most gave up. Exceptions were the (in)famous sports class guys, who used their punches where their wits were powerless. Classic story, yeah I know. Yes I managed to be fine. However, I might have more empathy in me for those who get bullied.

      ...And let me tell you another real-life story:
      When I was a kid, I had a classmate who was poor. I mean, dirt-poor. he only had 3 pairs of pants, and other kids noticed. One day, they threw some god damned substance on his pants (oily stuff, can't recall what it was) and the pants were ruined. He was so ashamed that later that evening his parents caught him attempting to commit suicide (he fucking hanged himself on the outside of the window). He managed to survive and later he earned a sponsored scholarship and became a doctor in the ER in a local hospital. He saved dozens of lifes. Hell, if you have a car crash near that town, he'd be the only one able to help you (small town, one hospital) and save your life. But hey, maybe you're right, maybe he oughta be dead...

      You know, it's not always about the "rig

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    5. Re:Anonymous coward posted by war4peace · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Verbal aggression and physical aggression both have the same root and both have the same effects. Disregarding the effects of one leaves half of the problem unresolved.
      I do agree there are worse things in life than bullying. But let's stick to the world seen from a teenager's perspective. They don't cope with an assholde boss. They will later, but not now. They also don't cope with aggressive drivers, not till they turn 16 (in US) or 18 or even 21 (in some countries). And here we don't talk about Facebook, we talk about dedicated school websites/areas, where the message target is your entire class/school, not a few friends you can block.
      Now about that good-bye letter you mentioned. The Suicide rate because of such things amongst teens is surprisingly high. And whereas you can't help getting dumped sometimes, you can (or should be able to) do something against bullying and targeted verbal/physical aggression in schools. And by action I don't mean throw the offender in jail, but counsel the offender and at the same time silently remove the offending entry/post from the website. As for the seriousness of the offense and its implications, let me put an analogy together...
      Let's say there's a corporate forum which all your co-workers access. And it's anonymous and unmoderated. Now I, covered by anonimity, go there and write "Shakrai has a small dick, finishes in 2 minutes and can't satisfy a woman ", you wouldn't like it. You could just go ahead and ignore my entry and even the forum altogether, but your co-workers won't. They will show each other this entry and some (most, from my experience) would assume it's true. And all of a sudden, you are going to be the lame hero of the company, the guy everyone makes fun of. People will cease to call you, you will feel isolated and so on; and when the poor soul who hasn't read my entry comes and sits next to you or talks to you, there's always going to be someone who will gladly (and viciously) point the uninformed guy to my entry. Gossip goes fast, gossip goes far. And before you know it, a large part of your life (that would be work environment) would shred to tiny pieces.

      Now, you are entitled to sue my ass and get a large amount of money from my misdemeanor, but surprise!, you don't have anyone to sue, because Internet anonymity protects me, and the webmaster doesn't give a shit about your protests (forum outsourced to Vanuatu Islands, good luck reaching someone). OK, maybe you would find a solution, because as an adult you are resourceful, but what can you do as a 14-17 year old kid?

      Finally, you say there are lots of help channels available. That's reactive thinking. You wait for the problem to happen and then attempt to fix it. How about being proactive for a change? Identify offenders, counsel THEM, remove the offending post. If cyber-bullies know that their entries are moderated and won't see the daylight if they are aggressive, they will cease doing it.
      How about freedom of speech? Freedom of speech applies to identifiable people, to those who are ready to take the heat if they are proven as liars. Not to the so-called "anonymous cowards" (no pun intended) who hide behind the iron curtain of Internet to harm others, willingly or not. Therefore, if I could be identified in the above mentioned imaginary forum, then yes, that forum can be un-moderated and I would be held responsible for my actions.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    6. Re:Anonymous coward posted by eiMichael · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree, we lose people to preventable suicide that could become great, healthy, contributors to society. And we all know that some of those bullies grow up to be in a position of power and do things we hate. There are Hitlers, and there are Ghandis.

      Now I don't know exactly what happend or how the condition is called (it's not a nice thing to avidly ask them for details), ...

      Here is a contributing reason why people continue to be so sensitive (which bullies just eat up). If someone has a medical condition, one that is so obvious that it causes physical defects, why is not nice to ask what condition they have? We all have our inadequacies, and trying to pretend they don't exist does nothing to help us cope with life in public. Hiding behind secrecy only makes the "coming out" more of an issue. Kids love to uncover and spread secrets.

    7. Re:Anonymous coward posted by shiftless · · Score: 3, Insightful

      For weaker people, this might lead to psychological problems and ultimately suicide

      So what's your solution? Stifle free speech so that a bunch of pussies will feel better about themselves, and not get their poor feelings hurt? I don't want to see anyone commit suicide over something they read online, but the best solution to this "problem" certainly doesn't involve censorship.

      Yes, I was depressed for most of my life up until a few years back when I finally was able to cure myself of it. I know what it's like to be teased and picked on and to hate life. If someone is getting picked on all the time, then the real solution is for him to "man up" and grow a spine and thicker skin, instead of trying to neuter and gag everyone else.

  2. Herpes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Soulskill has herpes!

  3. So, it's... by Voulnet · · Score: 5, Insightful

    4chan for Harvard?

    1. Re:So, it's... by smitty777 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Jerry Springer for the interwebs

      --
      "Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish"
      Albert Einstein
    2. Re:So, it's... by couchslug · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "4chan for Harvard?"

      Lulzworthy!
      I favor anything that "helps" the public view graduates of such schools with less respect.

      Since the internet rarely forgets, it will be a hoot when some of this comes back to bite the high and mighty as they rise up the political ladder.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    3. Re:So, it's... by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No. It's the Valley of the Squinting Windows. Technology has brought us right back to the ignorant, vindictive and intolerant society we started out from. The more things change....

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    4. Re:So, it's... by mcrbids · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Kids do stupid things. That's aout as newsworthy as the sun rising I the East. Within a few years, stupid comments you made way back when will be recognized as such.

      But while there is real slander going on, that's the extreme edge of a real sea-change going on. Sites like RateYourProfessor.com have fundamentally changed how studets and learning institutions interract! My wife, daughter, and two oldest sons are all attending CSUs and they all rely on RateYourProfessor HEAVILY to decide what classes to take. They find that it's quite accurate, too!

      This is something that strikes at the very heart of (IMHO) antiquated conncepts like tenure, which often works to cement boring, mediocre teachers into irrevokable positions in schools, draining the will of otherwise good students, and making education more expensive and less valuable to all others involved.

      This is a very good thing!

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    5. Re:So, it's... by skydyr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is something that strikes at the very heart of (IMHO) antiquated conncepts like tenure, which often works to cement boring, mediocre teachers into irrevokable positions in schools, draining the will of otherwise good students, and making education more expensive and less valuable to all others involved.

      While tenure may keep professors teaching when they're not that good at it, that's not the purpose of tenure, and to claim that it is seems a bit disingenuous. Tenure serves to protect professors from retaliation, either in terms of their research or general academic politics, of which there are far too many.

      Personally, I feel that there is too much emphasis on research positions at schools when there should be more space for professors who focus primarily on teaching, but this is a separate issue from tenure.

    6. Re:So, it's... by mcrbids · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I work with charter schools, and regular schools. It's an eye-popping exercise to attend staff meetings to discuss our services. At charter schools, it's an energetic experience! Teachers are engaged, excited, bubbling and happy. Charter schools are typically non-union.

      But go to a union district, and staff meetings feel something like a funeral dirge - quiet, stiff, and teachers have the "deer in the headlights" look. I've listened to the administrators whine and complain about how they are over a barrel since they have craptastic teachers that they can't just fire for incompetence unless they basically catch them breaking the law!

      It's shocking how different the two systems are.

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
  4. futile struggle by Odinlake · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Really, it's futile in the long term to try and ban "harassment comments" or whatever you want to call it, unless you want to really compromise free speech and become worse than China. Maybe instead stop being so bloody touchy about stupid things stupid people write? What is it we've told our children for ages - "stop caring, don't give it attention"?

    1. Re:futile struggle by ascari · · Score: 2, Funny

      You're ignoring the vandalism aspect: Anyone who scribbles on the digital bathroom wall deserves a digital swirly!

    2. Re:futile struggle by symbolic · · Score: 2, Funny

      That would be an e-swirly.

    3. Re:futile struggle by swillden · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Maybe instead stop being so bloody touchy about stupid things stupid people write? What is it we've told our children for ages - "stop caring, don't give it attention"?

      That's a nice theory, but it's a really hard thing for people, especially immature people, to do.

      Teenagers in particular are extremely sensitive to criticism, and often respond poorly. Spend some time watching the interactions of a group of, say, 14 year-old girls on Facebook. Vicious doesn't begin to describe it. People in general are willing to say things behind the shield of their computer that they would never say face to face. Add to that some low self-esteem and peer approval dependency and you have a recipe for a whole lot of heartache. Kids have always been mean to one another, and always will, but online interaction raises it to a new level.

      Kids in college are a little more mature and self-confident, but only a little. And there's a lot of variability, so you can expect these online fora to be filled with the spew of the least mature, the least secure and the most vicious.

      It will indeed be interesting to see how society evolves in response. Hopefully we'll all develop a thicker skin and learn to be more forgiving of all sorts of errors. That would be a good solution, and would actually make the world a better place than it used to be. Another possibility is that the next generation is going to grow up almost universally traumatized and defensive.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    4. Re:futile struggle by indiechild · · Score: 2

      I can see both sides of the argument. But I'd say it's a safe bet that most of the people who say "just ignore it" have never been seriously bullied and terrorised in their lives before.

    5. Re:futile struggle by Odinlake · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Kids have always been mean to one another, and always will, but online interaction raises it to a new level.

      I don't particularly think it "raises the level", but I'm sure that it (the online-ness) makes things much more visible to adults - which is of course when they become horrible. (Mind, I for one think this is horrible in general but in particular cases I'm of course not horrified by things of which I'm unaware). Parents, guardians, schools, etc. must combat this problem exactly the same way as before - by taking time with their children, individually, not by spying or censoring public forums.

    6. Re:futile struggle by Sheen · · Score: 5, Funny

      You spend time watching 14 year old girls, on facebook?

    7. Re:futile struggle by ClosedSource · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Really, it's futile in the long term to try and ban "harassment comments" or whatever you want to call it, unless you want to really compromise free speech and become worse than China."

      Sure, because making infantile comments about other people is just as important as being able to speak freely about your government's policies.

    8. Re:futile struggle by Buelldozer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Adults do it too, the only reason it becomes "horrible" when kids do it is because kids tend to be less discrete so it become EMBARRASSING. Otherwise I don't think most adults would care.

    9. Re:futile struggle by Arthur+Grumbine · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Another possibility is that the next generation is going to grow up almost universally traumatized and defensive.

      I sure hope so! Then those with any degree of emotional fortitude will have all the greater advantage because of their willingness to take more social "risks". Success and greatness will come to those who risk, even more so than before because of all the opportunities not being taken advantage of by the cowards. A greater separation (in terms of control of the direction of energy of society) will develop between those who face life boldly and those who whimper at a cross glance, and greater advancements will be made, especially in the sciences - where boldness has driven the greatest discoveries for hundreds of years.

      Without this kind of strength of character, and thick skin, would Michelson and Morley have rigorously repeated their experiments despite the criticism and ridicule they received in fighting the establishment when it came to the existence of aether? Would Einstein have faced the criticism/ridicule of most of academia by trying to destroy the absolute space of Newton (if you think Einstein was immediately acclaimed/well-received you need to brush up on your history)? Galileo? Copernicus? The scientists who make the greatest discoveries are often doing so in the face of the established academic thought. It takes a thick skin to be able to live this kind of life, and not be intimidated by thousands of your peers criticizing and mocking (scientists can be mean too) you.

      --
      Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
    10. Re:futile struggle by Shark · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sure, because making infantile comments about other people is just as important as being able to speak freely about your government's policies.

      The entire point of free speech and all human rights is that they can't be categorized as more or less important. Once you start making them relative to each other, you enter the realm of what is often called 'the tyranny of the majority' whereas if the majority decides that your right is unimportant, or unacceptable, it vanishes.

      This being said, libel is illegal and if you are a victim of it, you are well within your right to take your case to court. I think society would work better if we maintained that libelous statements must be false though.

      --
      Mind the frickin' laser...
    11. Re:futile struggle by ClosedSource · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I understand the slippery slope of these issues, but at the same time it's silly to pretend there aren't differences of degree even if as a practical matter we have to treat them the same in law.

    12. Re:futile struggle by phiwum · · Score: 2, Informative

      The entire point of free speech and all human rights is that they can't be categorized as more or less important.

      T'ain't what the courts say. Different kinds of speech have different amounts of protection. Political speech is most protected and commercial speech among the least protected.

      --
      Phiwum's law: anyone that names an obvious law after himself and then puts it in his own sig is just pathetic.
    13. Re:futile struggle by TarPitt · · Score: 2, Informative

      I would think a company would be hard pressed to not hire someone based on an anonymous posting board. That's a dangerous practice that could result in a major lawsuit if anyone found out about the practice. It essentially amounts to hiring discrimination.

      You are very funny. Have you ever been on the employer's side of the hiring process? Hiring is an incredibly risk-averse process - many candidates have the ability to do the job, so the discriminator is any real or perceived fault.

      First, discrimination applies only to protected classes. These are legally defined and generally amount to age, race, gender - period. There is no law that prevents employers from refusing to hire based on other criteria, even if that criteria is completely unrelated to job performance.

      Second, most hiring managers are smart enough to discriminate without leaving an incriminating trail. For example, I was verbally instructed at one job to only consider candidates under a certain age, in order to fit a corporate "image". I'm sure none of this was in writing, and the manager advising me to do this would deny it under oath. When you apply for a job, you have no idea the real reason you didn't get interviewed. When you are interviewed, you only get a vague sense of why you weren't hired ("didn't fit the corporate culture" is a common one). If you were denied a job based on anonymous libel, how would you know?

      Last, I *have* served on a jury dealing with these issues. It is amazing how many potential jurors stated right out they did not believe companies should be sued for employment discrimination under any conditions (didn't you know that all these law suits are crippling the US economy?). It was also amazing how many people with this mindset actually made it on the jury.

      It is very difficult and very expensive for an individual to sue under these conditions, and jurors look at *any* ( flaws in the litigant's professional behavior to rule in favor of the defense. Even if you think you have a good case, there is a good chance that a bad impression in front of a jury would dash you hopes of compensation.

      Employers know how hard it is to prove discrimination, and how hard it is for individuals to win these cases against corporate litigators and HR professionals. Policies against discrimination are largely window-dressing, designed to provide plausible deniability

      --
      If your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd murder you in your sleep
    14. Re:futile struggle by swillden · · Score: 3, Informative

      You spend time watching 14 year old girls, on facebook?

      I watch my 14 year-old daughter's interactions with her friends.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    15. Re:futile struggle by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's a little while since I was 14, but I remember the girls of my age being incredibly viscous, with hair-pulling and attacking with sharp teeth and nails being a common way of interacting within the group. If they're now insulting each other over the Internet, then it sounds quite tame by comparison. Of course, when they were near any of their parents, they were always sweet, charming and polite. As the other poster said: putting things online just makes them more visible to adults.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    16. Re:futile struggle by swillden · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If they're now insulting each other over the Internet, then it sounds quite tame by comparison

      You've got that backwards, because you don't understand teenage girls. Pulled hair and a few scratches they can bounce back from. Words produce far more lasting damage, for multiple reasons.

      One of the biggest is that on Facebook these fights happen in public. It's not just a handful of people nearby that hear the hurtful comments and maybe a little gossip that gets passed around fifth-hand. The entire school reads it, nearly in real-time. SMS fights aren't nearly as bad.

      Relative anonymity also facilitates dirt-digging, and if you think face-to-face rumors spread fast, on-line they're lightning.

      Another is, seriously, the LACK of the physical option. At the point in a fight where the nails would come out, online there's nothing to do but dig deeper, looking for the most vicious lie possible or -- even worse -- the most vicious truth possible. Whether lie or truth, the entire school will know it in minutes.

      Another big problem is the "flash mob" effect. Flash mobs are usually planned, but among teenage girls on Facebook, they arise spontaneously. A personal fight (often triggered by something *completely* innocuous, because a comment unaccompanied by body language was taken wrong) quickly spirals out of control, bringing dozens of people piling on whoever appears to be losing.

      And when it gets REALLY bad is when the boys join in, something that hardly ever happens in meatspace catfights. When an ex-boyfriend decided to toss his favorite anti-target anecdote into the mix, for all of the other girls to pounce on, all of the rivalry gets amped up by hormones and puppy love gone wrong. Kids get emotionally destroyed. Seriously.

      Anecdotally, I see these on-line fights triggering many suicides. I expect in a few years we'll see studies showing that kids who make heavy use of Facebook, etc. kill themselves in significantly greater numbers, and suffer from more mental illness.

      There's nothing to be done but to see what happens, to see how society will learn to deal with this new communication channel that seriously changes the dynamics of social interaction among young people who are only just learning how to interact. Hopefully, responsible parents will keep their more vulnerable children off of Facebook, etc.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  5. PC, huh? by FatSean · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Political Correctness is just a new version of Politeness. Those who make sad and angry noises about PC are just upset that their version of PC is out of style. Perhaps they were Emily Post fans.

    We now frown on slurs and other degrading language where once that was celebrated. We now allow discussions of topics in public that were once forced by the Olde PC to be kept private to the determent of those who needed the topics aired.

    When someone complains about 'PC' they're just complaining that THEIR version of right/wrong in public has been pushed out by the majority.

    --
    Blar.
    1. Re:PC, huh? by DJRumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or perhaps people still don't like other people behaving like asses? We were raised (well most of us) to treat each other with at least civility. It grates when you read or see something like that. That's the whole idea of peer pressure.

      I wish they'd do away with anonymous for trivial/unimportant information posts. It serves no purpose other than to bring out the juvenile in everyone.

    2. Re:PC, huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The name "political correctness" implies the two bad attributes of the phenomenon: That it's political and that it claims to be correct (without justification and in a field with many differing perspectives). Politeness often also has these attributes, but the realization that a new behavior is in some way similar to an old behavior which one didn't question should not compel anyone to agree with the new behavior in spite of better knowledge. PC is a limitation on discussion and therefore a limitation on thinking, which is unacceptable. So fuck you.

    3. Re:PC, huh? by daveime · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And who is going to determine that a post is trivial / unimportant ?

      The fact that Jenkins expresses a sexual preference for the dead is perhaps a valid and important fact for other people to be made aware of, especially if he is currently studying for a Bachelor of Arts in Embalming.

      And really, kids start calling each other names in the kindergarten playground. Why does the fact it is posted on the internet make it any more important. Just because it's exposed to perhaps a wider audience doesn't mean discerning people can't simply ignore it for the puerile drivel it is. The only people who will get upset are those who *always* get upset, and there's no helping them anyway, oversensitive bunch of pussies that they are.

    4. Re:PC, huh? by NoYob · · Score: 5, Insightful
      That depends on what you consider to be PC or un-PC.

      Bill Cosby said some things about his community a while ago that was very un-PC, but he felt it needed to be said. White people have said the same things before (as well as less prominent Blacks) but were then called "racist" or "bigots", then ignored and in the meantime, the problems in the community continued. Of course, all of those problems were always blamed on others and never on the community - ex. not getting education because it was a "white" thing and then being angry and pissed when the only jobs they can get are janitors which then lead to more rancor and beliefs about being oppressed and what not.

      And it's not only the African American community it's across all racial and religious lines . Although, it's just that it's PC to say anything about white males.

      --
      It's NOT me! It's the meds! I'm on 1000mg of Fukitol.
    5. Re:PC, huh? by 1s44c · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Political correctness is nothing but a bunch of random rules of communication setup as a system of traps for people who dare speak their mind. It doesn't make any sense except to derail communication from its intended purpose.

      When you get white Americans calling European nationals who happen to be black 'African Americans' it's gone too far.

    6. Re:PC, huh? by Wildclaw · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Political Correctness is just a new version of Politeness

      Political Correctness is not polite. In fact, it is the opposite. PC speak at its core is about deception, and as such is one of the greatest forms of insult to any listener that can read between the lines.

    7. Re:PC, huh? by Vahokif · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The difference is that politeness is a style that evolved naturally. Political correctness is an invented newspeak.

    8. Re:PC, huh? by JorDan+Clock · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I am very interested in seeing an example of an American calling a European national 'African American.' I am not doubting you or anything, I'd just like an example to show others.

    9. Re:PC, huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      I am very interested in seeing an example of an American calling a European national 'African American.' I am not doubting you or anything, I'd just like an example to show others.

      Haha, and sorry nothing citeable here because I'm going to post anonymously for this but I have a black African friend who punched an American who referred to him as "African American" [in UK btw]. What a day that was, sigh..

    10. Re:PC, huh? by Bluesman · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hey, I'm an oversensitive pussy, and I find your post extremely offensive and wrong.

      --
      If moderation could change anything, it would be illegal.
    11. Re:PC, huh? by selven · · Score: 3, Informative

      Political correctness is just an impossible game of cat-and-mouse using weird terms until the terms become popular and you have to use newer ones, making reading older texts on subjects like psychological disabilities impossible. When you get streaks of renaming like mongolism -> Down syndrome -> trisomy 21 and stupid -> mentally retarded -> mentally challenged -> differently abled (or whatever the current one is) communicating becomes a nightmare.

    12. Re:PC, huh? by plover · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I wish they'd do away with anonymous for trivial/unimportant information posts. It serves no purpose other than to bring out the juvenile in everyone.

      And who is going to determine that a post is trivial / unimportant ?

      The author. If you're not anonymous, you're less likely to post trivial crap like "Davee is teh gaye!!11!!" It becomes self censorship, mostly because you want to keep posting, and don't want to get banned.

      The flip side is that anonymous lets people post useful stuff that they shouldn't for other reasons. While you may (or may not) find the position distasteful, our form of government is composed of everybody, including drunks, racists, gays, junkies, and whoever else. Today it would be political suicide to say "we should have a holiday to celebrate the rise of the Third Reich." But if you truly believe it, an anonymous outlet lets you do just that. If enough people agree and build up support, over time your issue can come out of the closet, and you don't have to be anonymous anymore.

      That's a horrible example, of course. A real example is to anonymously write "The King is a Tyrant!" until you get enough people to foment a revolution. And we don't have a king anymore, thanks to the anonymous writers and revolutionaries. Thus anonymous speech holds a significant place in our system.

      --
      John
    13. Re:PC, huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      (Today's "look it up" word is: foment)

      There are other important reasons for anonymous speech: I am more than willing to stand behind what I'm writing here, but I want you to answer me here, based on my arguments in the current context, instead of taking my arguments out of context and using them to discredit me that way. I also do not want to be reduced to my current point of view. Published information is archived everywhere, but the mode of communication on message boards is more like oral conversation. I might express opinions that I revise, even as a consequence of the discussion, but a search engine will always bring back my old opinion.

    14. Re:PC, huh? by Arthur+Grumbine · · Score: 3, Funny

      When you get white Americans calling European nationals who happen to be black 'African Americans' it's gone too far.

      Exemplified by the brilliant satire of Sacha Baron Cohen, in Brüno:
      Brüno: There's a lot of African Americans in Africa!
      African-American Lady: No! There's a lot of Africans in Africa!
      Brüno: That's racist!

      --
      Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
    15. Re:PC, huh? by ChromeAeonium · · Score: 5, Informative

      I don't have a primary source for this because it was supposedly on TV, but apparently there was a conversation between an American reporter and black British athlete Kriss Akabusi that went something like this:

      "So, Kriss, what does this mean to you as an African-American?"

      "I'm not American, I'm British"

      "Yes, but as a British African-American ..."

      "I'm not African. I'm not American. I'm British."

    16. Re:PC, huh? by Runaway1956 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Political Correctness is just a new version of Politeness."

      Horse Shit.

      Polite society has observed pretty much the same conventions for centuries now. Politeness hasn't changed much at all. Change is slow, and very gradual.

      Politically correct is a fucking bludgeon used mostly by the left to beat down anyone who disagrees with their point of view.

      Need an example? A polite person won't call a queer a queer - he will avoid the subject, or use less inflammatory terms. But, a polite person will STILL vote his conscience, and when the subject of homosexuality comes up, he will voice his opposition to it.

      "Politically correct" bullshit makes it a crime for anyone to speak out against queer sumbitches who want to get married, and take over the churches, schools, military, or whatever else offends them. Opposition to homosexuality becomes a "hate crime".

      Don't ever confuse "polite" and "politically correct".

      Polite pretends that the queer isn't a cocksucker. Politically correct demands approval of cocksuckers.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    17. Re:PC, huh? by ikarous · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Politically correct" bullshit makes it a crime for anyone to speak out against queer sumbitches who want to get married, and take over the churches, schools, military, or whatever else offends them. Opposition to homosexuality becomes a "hate crime".

      Don't ever confuse "polite" and "politically correct".

      Polite pretends that the queer isn't a cocksucker. Politically correct demands approval of cocksuckers.

      As an incorrigible cocksucking queer sumbitch myself, I would like to take this opportunity to offer to you my sincerest gratitude for your honesty. My partner and I have been denied housing by "polite" people here in Texas who are always be forced to go far out of their way to find some valid excuse to support their obviously bogus decision. Everyone in the room knows the truth, but for some reason, the mores of politeness demand that no one verbally acknowledge it.

      Fuck that. It's much better when people just come out and say what they believe. I'm old enough and wise enough now that I truly don't give a shit what people think of me, but they should at least have the courage not to hide their feelings behind a veneer of "politeness." I can respect them for that.

    18. Re:PC, huh? by Runaway1956 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I can understand that. Maybe someone will mod you up. ;^)

      I've been denied service a few times in my life. Lame excuses like, "We just ran out of beer" is bullshit. If you were really out of beer, all the rest of the customers would have been on their way OUT as I walked IN. Just tell me that you don't want no sailors hanging around your bar, no white people hanging around your Bar-B-Que, or that you don't like Americans in general.

      There's a lot to be said for honesty.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
  6. No you are wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Complaints about PC are generally not about any version of right or wrong. They are complaints about being required to use, or avoid, language, which it is claimed might offend someone.

    I don't care what language you use and do not want to restrict your use of any particular words. You might care what language I use and seek to impose restrictions. Those two approaches are not equivalents and PC falls into the latter.

    Just because two people disagree, it does not mean that both views are equal in some way.

  7. Consumers Guide to MIT Men by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is hardly a new problem. Check out the old "Consumers Guide to MIT Men", a 1970's rating book for MIT men in bed designed to mock the rating guides for easy lays published internally by the fraternities of the day. Sadly, the book failed to mention that the authors were sleeping with drunk boys from the "Strat's Rat" bar at MIT, where the high male/female ratio and cheap liquor contributed to their research.

    They tried to censor that, too. And make no mistake: the great desire of university publicity departments and administrators is to shut down such documents, not to prevent slander or libel. We need to be very careful about what actually gets blocked: anonymous has a long, proud history in the US dating back to Thomas Paine and the Federalist papers, and the courts are quite aware of how chilling of free speech even mild restraints can be. The anonymity is critical to protect people from repercussion: www.wikileaks.org is critical proof of this, and I highly recommend it for people to see how amazing the information their bosses and newspapers and governments don't publish really is.

  8. Since noone posted this yet... by andi75 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm so going to whore karma with this obligatory Penny-Arcade reference.

    Mod redundant at will.

    1. Re:Since noone posted this yet... by aj50 · · Score: 2, Funny

      and then Halo 2 came out and showed how much worse it is when everyone has voice chat.

      --
      I wish to remain anomalous
  9. Though fucking noogies. by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Freedom of speech wears-out only if you don’t use it.

    — Maurice Maréchal, founder of the satirical french weekly “Le Canard Enchaîné“.

  10. Real reason for their objection? by noidentity · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What's the real reason for the schools' objection to it? I always thought it was because it destroyed school property. If it's virtual, then as a student you have to seek it out to see it, rather than seeing it in the bathroom stalls whether you like it or not. Sounds like it was really about control. They want control over what students say to each other at all times. Heaven forbid students organize in various ways without permission.

  11. Dilemma by handy_vandal · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's a dilemma inherent in our choices of technologies.

    If we allow anonymity, people will
    (a) Use it for good: whistleblowing on evildoers;
    (b) Use it for evil: anonymously libelling the innocent;

    If we prohibit anonymity, people will
    (a) Use it for good: standing by their assertions;
    (b) Use it for evil: track every word you say, stifling whistleblowers and witnesses.

    There is no right answer. There are only choices between problems.

    --
    -kgj
  12. Uh, no, not really by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Have you been encased in a cement bunker for 20 years? "PC" is not just about avoiding overt insults or, say, the fact that we have condom ads on television now with a guy getting his junk buffed in a wind tunnel. When recent polls in the polls in the UK indicate that 80% of the population is tired of political correctness, you have a real problem, not a generation gap.

    When people complain about PC, they mean the sort that causes valid or even scientific discussion from even taking place because some hypersensitive miseryshit somewhere might be offended.

    It's the sort of PC that chastises a kid in a Halloween pirate costume for wearing an eye patch because it's offensive to the disabled. Oops, I mean differently-abled! Sorry! Don't sue me for causing emotional distress, please! It's curious they never seem to ask an actual other-abled person. No, wait, "other" sounds exclusionary doesn't it? Argh! The low seas of PC be treacherous, me mateys!

    Political correctness also seems to be covering hypersensitivity to safety, so you have it applied to cases where trapeze artists are required to wear hard hats or the Army is told to make their training courses safer to the point of, well, pointlessness. That seems odd to me, but the street finds its own uses for words, much like hacker is used in place of cracker by the general population. Language evolves- deal with it.

    1. Re:Uh, no, not really by gblues · · Score: 2, Informative

      As a fairly recent graduate of Army Basic Combat Training, there is nothing pointless about making training courses safer. The training schedule is very very tightly packed--there is virtually no room for a soldier-in-training to get injured and keep up with his classmates. At best, the soldier will be restarted with a new unit; at worst, the soldier might get sent home for convalescence leave (paid), or if the injury is serious enough it might require separation. So if training can be made safer, that means fewer injuries and smoother training schedules.

  13. When I read the title.. by ModernGeek · · Score: 2, Funny

    When I read the title, I envisioned an actual whiteboard on the wall of a bathroom stall that allowed people to write on it. I figured the problems were people using real sharpies on it.

    --
    Sig: I stole this sig.
  14. Untouchable? by cyn1c77 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Owner Peter Frank, a sophomore at Wesleyan University... runs ACB out of his dorm room. The 19-year-old English major... "I'm untouchable," he says.

    You don't sound untouchable Pete, you just sound stupid. Especially after letting time.com publish your full name, picture, the city you live in, AND the school you attend. I am thinking that the next year is going to be very educational for you once your site slanders a couple of people to the point that they lose control and decide to take a trip to Middletown with your picture in hand.

    1. Re:Untouchable? by Fnord666 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Owner Peter Frank, a sophomore at Wesleyan University... runs ACB out of his dorm room. The 19-year-old English major... "I'm untouchable," he says.

      You don't sound untouchable Pete, you just sound stupid. Especially after letting time.com publish your full name, picture, the city you live in, AND the school you attend. I am thinking that the next year is going to be very educational for you once your site slanders a couple of people to the point that they lose control and decide to take a trip to Middletown with your picture in hand.

      Nice job taking that out of context. He was referring of course to the fact that in general, forum providers have not been held liable for the content posted by their users in a court of law.

      FTA:

      So far at least, the law is on Frank's side. Although individuals can sue newspapers and other traditional-media outlets for making false or defamatory statements, the Communications Decency Act of 1996 shields website operators from liability for user-generated content, except for copyrighted materials like movies and music.

      --
      'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
  15. Digital wall by unifyingtheory · · Score: 2, Funny

    Did anyone else read the title and think someone put a big electronic wall in the bathroom that can be written on like a tablet pc?

    1. Re:Digital wall by RoboRay · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If every stall had a board tied to the board in every other stall for collaborative graffiti, that would be pretty neat.

  16. Looks like a non-issue to me. by Vellmont · · Score: 4, Informative

    So the supposed big gossip site Juicy Campus folded in February after existing for a whole year and a half. CollegeACB is some site run by an English Major out of his dorm room. If you actually GO to the site, you'll see a lot of old, outdated posts mostly people asking for gossip and very few actually providing gossip. So this is supposed to be the big problem Colleges are worried about?

    This is just another lazy journalist creating a story out of nothing.

    --
    AccountKiller