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Google-Microsoft Crossfire Will Hit Consumers

theodp writes "Newsweek's Dan Lyons doesn't know who will be the winner in Google and Microsoft's search battle, but that's not stopping him from picking a loser — consumers. As we head towards a world where some devices may be free or really cheap, consumers should prepare to be bombarded by ads or pay a premium to escape them. 'The sad truth is that Google and Microsoft care less about making cool products than they do about hurting each other,' concludes Lyons. 'Their fighting has little to do with helping customers and a lot to do with helping themselves to a bigger slice of the money we all spend to buy computers and surf the Internet. Microsoft wants to ruin Google's search business. Google wants to ruin Microsoft's OS business. At the end of the day, they both seem like overgrown nerdy schoolboys fighting over each other's toys.'"

17 of 336 comments (clear)

  1. Business as usual by sopssa · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The sad truth is that Google and Microsoft care less about making cool products than they do about hurting each other,' concludes Lyons. 'Their fighting has little to do with helping customers and a lot to do with helping themselves to a bigger slice of the money we all spend to buy computers and surf the Internet.

    For anyone else joining the real world, enjoy your stay. A business making money? This is madness!

    This seem to be just an another story of a Google fanboy in his basement discovering that their do-no-evil "friend" is a normal company, a normal business which purpose is to generate revenue. He hasn't yet understood that money doesn't grow in trees and this is how our economy works. For him Microsoft seems like a bad guy because they dare to sell products at a price. Google is the 'cool and hippy' friend who offers everything for free. And what he doesn't understand is that the revenue is just generated other way, and he loses her privacy to an advertisement company. Google is not a search engine company, it's an advertisement company that uses internet searching to 1) gather very detailed information and usage statistics about people all over the internet 2) sell targeted ads to advertisers.

    It's unnecessary to blame the companies how it is. "Making cool products" and not caring about business sounds more like a public service or some teenagers naive thinking before he comes contact with the real world. Of course two competing companies are going to.. eh, compete. That's how it works, that's how they generate income, but that's also how they're always on a run to improve their products.

    If there weren't competing companies, it would be a lot worse situation. Just look at how the adsl and cable internet is in USA. People pretty much have only one choice of operator, and it's shitty. In lots of European countries there's many competing ISP's and you get faster and better service.

    At the end of the day, they both seem like overgrown nerdy schoolboys fighting over each other's toys.

    They're the exact opposite. They're businesses that have a clean plan and understand what they are doing. Microsoft wants more marketshare on search, Google wants more users locked in to their services to keep their 70% marketshare. Oh, you though Google wants to fight for OS marketshare? Just see how limited Chrome OS is. It's designed to offer people Google's services so they will be locked down in them. That's the whole idea behind it, not fighting to destroy Windows.

    1. Re:Business as usual by chabotc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      One slight detail that I hope wont get in the way of your ranting:

      ChromeOS is a web OS, and in the browser you can do everything you can do in your regular browser, like changing your search engine to 'Bing', using MS Office 2010 online or Zohoo office, Yahoo mail, and any other competing web service you desire.

      Web is the very opposite of a vendor lock-in, there's an unlimited amount of choice and Google always seems to do their best to allow for competition, the best practical example of this is how easy it is to change the search engine in Chrome to Bing vs the hiding of the Google search option in IE8.

      Sure, Google does believe that 'anything that is good for the web will also be good for Google', so having powerful devices and browsers that make the web an attractive platform will also be good for Google in the end (more searches, more ads, more docs, more maps and location services, more waving, etc), but in no way are they locking people into any platform or product

    2. Re:Business as usual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      At the end of the day, they both seem like overgrown nerdy schoolboys fighting over each other's toys.

      They're the exact opposite. They're businesses that have a clean plan and understand what they are doing.

      I really have to question that. For the longest time, it seems like Microsoft has been in reactionary mode, swinging at whoever was making money with electronics. Sony PS1 was the most popular for a generation and really making them money, Microsoft decides to go into video games as well (before Sony, video games consoles were generally designed/made by companies that only did video games, not electronic giants). Apple came out with the iPod and popularized (not invented) the mp3 player, Microsoft decides to jump in with the Zune. Google became the king of search, Microsoft wants a piece of the action with first msn and now bing. They swing at any other megacorp making good money at something.

      It isnt to say they aren't going anywhere with it (Xbox seems certainly to have to net them something), but "clean plan" and "understand what they are doing" doesn't come to mind. More like FDR's concept during the great depression to throw a bunch of darts and see what sticks (and besides WW2, those plans weren't really working).

      Maybe they cleaned up their directionless act with Windows 7, but that is only one component to their empire. Can't say their whole company has gotten better.

    3. Re:Business as usual by cgenman · · Score: 5, Informative
    4. Re:Business as usual by chabotc · · Score: 5, Informative

      As the other poster pointed out, Google makes a serious commitment to not locking you in, so much so that there's an internal team that works with all product groups to make sure the end users retain those essential freedoms, the result of that is available at http://www.dataliberation.org/

      I personally know of no other company that has such an initiative (would be awesome to see MS do the same though, but somehow I'm not entirely hopeful that we'll see that day).

      So what exactly are you basing your information on? I mean, I know it's the year of 'bashing Google' in Chinese astrology or something, but I mean cmon, lets keep some facts in the discussion or all we're doing is random trolling

    5. Re:Business as usual by slim · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Casual people" will learn. Once bitten, twice shy. Just as anyone who bought DRM'd AAC files from iTunes learned, the first time they tried to play them on a non-Apple device.

      Yes, it's about user stupidity. And that's exactly what Google is going for (and MS too).

      Google is going out of its way to make exporting easy - http://www.dataliberation.org/. I haven't looked at MS's offerings.

      You're right that an unethical provider of cloud services could lock its customers in. I don't believe Google is doing that.

    6. Re:Business as usual by slim · · Score: 5, Informative

      As for the cloud, again, I want to be able to "Save as ... " to my hard drive. Google MAY JUST HAVE the very best application on earth for any given purpose, but if I can't move my data to wherever, whenever, in any given format, then it's worth about ten pounds of shit in a five pound sack.

      Fortunately you can.
      http://docs.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=49115

      I honestly don't know why people assume this obviously necessary functionality isn't there.

    7. Re:Business as usual by slim · · Score: 5, Informative

      It gets pretty cumbersome if you have 1000s of files ... exporting them one at a time. Hence the lock-in.

      Again with the assuming you can't do something.
      I'm not providing the link again. Several people have done so within this thread.

      Suffice to say, you can select multiple Google Docs and export them all at once. You can even get at them through an API.

    8. Re:Business as usual by whoop · · Score: 5, Funny

      Why should Google-haters have to go to the trouble of reading instructions, doing things, etc to get to their sacred data?? Google should just transmit the data over the air into their brains. This is an outrage! When will Google just do the simplest of things?!? Google is evil, I say, eeeeeeee-vil!

  2. History lesson by Dyinobal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't recall this so called consumers loosing, when Microsoft tried to compete with Google with their last 2 (or was it 3) search engines. The only way you might loose is if you inflict pain upon yourself by using Bing. I give it a year maybe 2 before Bing is gone.

  3. Dan 'I'm not a paid shill' Lyons? by E-Sabbath · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you've been following Groklaw over the last few years, I should point out that Mr. Lyons is a huge SCO supporter. I can not say Microsoft pays him money, but anything and everything he says is designed to hit Microsoft's opponents from the side. He likes to say bad things about both Microsoft and Microsoft's opponent of the day, but in a way that Microsoft comes off the better of the two.

    I'd put more trust into something John Dvorak had to say than Mr. Lyons.

    1. Re:Dan 'I'm not a paid shill' Lyons? by fwr · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I was thinking the same thing. "Dan Lyons," where did I hear that name before? Oh yes! He's that shill. He irreparably damaged his reputation in the SCO fiasco, and anything he says now, or writes, will be forever tarnished. The only reason I read this Slashdot story was to see if anyone else recalled his involvement. I certainly won't be reading his actual article, or even participating in the "debate" over it's contents, as that is actually what he wants to foster. I'd say let this story die.

    2. Re:Dan 'I'm not a paid shill' Lyons? by TropicalCoder · · Score: 5, Informative

      If you've been following Groklaw over the last few years, you probably have a bias against MS already.

      Agreed - because everything discussed on Groklaw is backed up with documentation. Therefore, if you read Groklaw, you will have followed the links to the Comes vs Microsoft material or the links to hundreds of other documents sufficient for any thinking person to come to their own, negative conclusions about Microsoft's business conduct.

      Now you will also find conspiracy theories in abundance on Groklaw as well, as was pointed out in a comment above yours. It you are looking for entertainment, you may find them amusing, but an independent thinker will not pay much attention to this kind of discussion if he want to be informed. He will go straight to the documentation and make up his or her own mind.

  4. Competition is bad for consumers by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 5, Funny

    Normally the reaction to someone saying this kind of pinko commie crap is to laugh and tell them to go fuck themselves back to Russia.

    But Lyons has a point. Competition, in this particular case, may not be the best thing for customers. Why so, you may ask. It is because of the lopsidedness of the market that makes this situation so precarious.

    From the end of WWII until the fall of the Berlin Wall, there were two sides to every geopolitical debate. The side of good, right, and the American Way and the side of the Soviet Union. Countries aligned themselves along these very clear geopolitical boundaries. Though it was easy enough to declare allegiance to one side or the other, many countries found their own geopolitical aspirations dashed to smithereens on either the broad wings of the American eagle or the hard, solid face of the Iron Curtain.

    However, with the end of the Cold War, vassal states are now finding their own voice. Countries that were previously shackled now find that the lack of a superpower competition has resulted in more opportunities for growth. Take two countries that America fought wars in as examples. Korea and Vietnam are now booming with economic and technological growth.

    These opportunities don't come because they are subservient states to a particular superpower, but because they no longer need to pledge allegiance and are able to make their own way.

    So when two superpowers like Microsoft and Google start duking it out, the fallout is going to hit partner companies AND consumers alike.

  5. An improvement for consumers by danlip · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Microsoft has always cared far more about crushing competition than providing anything of value to consumers. They buy up cool products just to shut them down, have a massive FUD engine, and promise the next version will be better but instead deliver Windows ME and Vista. Even if Google is just a money-grubbing competitor, it is a real competitor that Microsoft can't crush. Which means both companies will have to compete by offering something better to the consumers. Consumers win.

  6. This is Dan Lying Lyons by peragrin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    people this is Dan lyons he is the guy who said SCO not only had a case but would win.

    I would trust him being right about as much I would trust darl mcbride to be right. once a liar always a liar. Some people can change but the most will not have the strength to.

    Besides it is almost anti-gogle for google to push even more ads on people. Google ads are almost always simple text based items that are off to the side. unlike MSFT which brands everything it touches two or three times.

    --
    i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
  7. openness(Google) vs. openness(Microsoft) by StCredZero · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Megacorps aren't charities.
    Which is one reason I love using Free Software only in my computing ventures, I'm nobody's bitch.

    If it comes down to the lesser of evils, Google wins by a big margin. If Google challenges Microsoft's OS dominance, the consumer benefits. If Microsoft and NewsCorp succeed in making the Web a collection of walled gardens, the consumer loses out! (Though I say that people will just switch to search aggregators. Heck, you could even run an aggregator as a local proxy! Would make a great GNU project.)

    Google may be a "Megacorp," but it's still far less harmful than Microsoft. I say we side with Google and use it to knock Microsoft down a few more pegs.