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Harvard Says Computers Don't Save Hospitals Money

Lucas123 writes "Researchers at Harvard Medical School pored over survey data from more than 4,000 'wired' hospitals and determined that computerization of those facilities not only didn't save them a dime, but the technology didn't improve administrative efficiency either. The study also showed most of the IT systems were aimed at improving efficiency for hospital management — not doctors, nurses, and medical technicians. 'For 45 years or so, people have been claiming computers are going to save vast amounts of money and that the payoff was just around the corner. So the first thing we need to do is stop claiming things there's no evidence for. It's based on vaporware and [hasn't been] shown to exist or shown to be true,' said Dr. David Himmelstein, the study's lead author."

12 of 398 comments (clear)

  1. Transferability by oldhack · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Well, that's mouthful, but with electronic records you can at least switch doctors without having to take X-rays, tests, and other records again. No?

    --
    Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
    1. Re:Transferability by jma05 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Nope. The current Electronic Medical Record systems are not capable of exchanging information freely. There is no standard data format that everyone can exchange.
      There are a few standards that can package data, but they are not adequately specified for seamless interoperability.
      If you request records, they can print them out quickly for you though.

    2. Re:Transferability by AK+Marc · · Score: 5, Informative

      "The problem "is mainly that computer systems are built for the accountants and managers and not built to help doctors, nurses and patients," the report's lead author, Dr. David Himmelstein, said in an interview with Computerworld."

      The systems aren't put in help the doctors. They are put in by the non-medical managers to help their jobs. And they fail at that. A system designed for doctors with the goal of reducing error and improving care could work. But that's not what the systems are. They should start working now to have all records be electronic, X-rays, MRIs, personal history, etc. should be in formats that can be directly shared between doctors. Then processes and systems that are designed to help the medical care should be used to put that information to good use and let patience get improved care for a lower cost. But the systems are all billing systems first, and care second. And that's why they fail, and always will. Improving billing doesn't help care, and can often make it worse, as having a doctor or nurse putting in billing codes will only slow down the process.

    3. Re:Transferability by MattSausage · · Score: 5, Interesting

      As a personal anecdote, computerized medical records most likely saved my father's life.

      He woke up in the middle of the night with unbearable pain in his abdomen, and when he didn't fight my mom about going to the hospital she knew it was serious. Five hours later and untold scans and prodding later (not to mention a significant amount of morphine) they determined a blood vessel leading to my father's colon had been blocked and basically part of his colon was dead or dying. Not having the facilities or expertise to handle the necessary surgery in my mid-size town of Owensboro, KY, they sent him to the University of Louisville Medical center telling us that basically, even done by the best surgeons in the business there is a 3 out of 4 chance he wouldnt' make it through surgery unless it was done in the next few hours. The trip to Louisville takes two hours. Following the ambulance we arrived in Louisville in an hour and a half, and he was in his room and being prepped when the doctors realized they didn't have any scans of his abdomen, the EMTs had left them behind in their rush to get us all there. Faxing them was the only option, and to do that they would have to get in touch with someone in Owensboro, convince them who they were, have them look up the records, and then get them to a fax machine that could handle the scans. It could take another hour.

      Except my mother (who, frankly, is the smartest person I know) insisted that she be given a copy of the CD with all the electronic scans and data the doctors had collected that morning. I thought the surgeon was going to kiss her. 20 minutes later my father is in surgery, and 5 hours after that (or so, it was a long day) he was back out and kept in ICU for two weeks before finally coming home. The doctor had said if he'd had to wait much longer chances would have shot up considerably that my father would have died. So, there is at least one example of how Electronic Medical Records did help a doctor save a life.

  2. Well by ShooterNeo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Here's a relevant quote from "Superfreakonomics" :

    The diagnosis was clear: the WHC emergency department had a severe case of "datapenia," or low data counts. (Feied invented this word as well, stealing the suffix from "leucopenia," or low white-blood-cell counts.) Doctors were spending about 60 percent of their time on "information management," and only 15 percent on direct patient care. This was a sickening ratio. "Emergency medicine is a specialty defined not by an organ of the body or by an age group but by time," says Mark Smith. "It's about what you do in the first sixty minutes."

    Smith and Feied discovered more than three hundred data sources in the hospital that didn't talk to one another, including a mainframe system, handwritten notes, scanned images, lab results, streaming video from cardiac angiograms, and an infection-control tracking system that lived on one person's computer on an Excel spreadsheet. "And if she went on vacation, God help you if you're trying to track a TB outbreak," says Feied.

    To give the ER doctors and nurses what they really needed, a computer system had to be built from the ground up. It had to be encyclopedic (one missing piece of key data would defeat the purpose); it had to be muscular (a single MRI, for instance, ate up a massive amount of data capacity); and it had to be flexible (a system that couldn't incorporate any data from any department in any hospital in the past, present, or future was useless).

    It also had to be really, really fast. Not only because slowness kills in an ER but because, as Feied had learned from the scientific literature, a person using a computer experiences "cognitive drift" if more than one second elapses between clicking the mouse and seeing new data on the screen. If ten seconds pass, the person's mind is somewhere else entirely. That's how medical errors are made.

    END QUOTE
    I agree wholeheatedly with the last bit : I can't count how many times I've been to a doctors office or library or other institution and had to wait for a person to pull up my information on "the system". If you're gonna build a friggin computer system to handle local records, for the love of God don't scrimp on the hardware! Optimize the software! It should be INSTANTANEOUSLY fast!

    1. Re:Well by greenguy · · Score: 5, Informative

      I work in a hospital as an interpreter, so I see a lot of how people use computers... and how they don't. Generally in the ER, the patient first sees the triage nurse, who asks a series of questions. The answers all get entered into the computer. Then the patient sees their actual nurse, who asks many of the same questions again. This information may or may not get entered in the computer. Then the PA comes in and asks the same questions a third time. This time, the information gets written on a piece of paper, or maybe a tablet computer. Eventually, the attending physician stops in just long enough to ask the same questions a fourth time, and doesn't enter the info anywhere. If the patient is admitted and sent to another department, the process starts over.

      --
      What if I do the same thing, and I do get different results?
    2. Re:Well by jamesh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I made a call to HP (abbreviated to protect the company :) recently to have a failed disk replaced under warranty. I went to great lengths to explain that I was a consultant acting on behalf of the customer, gave HP all of my details and all of the customers details etc. I could hear constant typing in the background so something was being entered somewhere. About 20 minutes later I got a call from my office saying they had HP on the line asking who the onsite contact was, who the customer was, and where the part should be sent.

      It's not just hospitals... I think I can generalise the conclusion of the article - if the solution (IT or otherwise) isn't designed/built right, and people don't know how to use it right, then it isn't going to work right and is going to make peoples lives harder not eaiser. Seems kind of obvious when you put it that way though.

  3. The key being ... by devloop · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "IT systems were aimed at improving efficiency for hospital management"

    Doctors and other medical personnel do not typically hold much power
    when it comes to IT.

    Software vendors aim to please management, they are the ones who take
    the purchasing decisions.

    Your typical Lab software for example might not have a straightforward
    way to cross-check isolates for emerging resistance trends,
    run critical screens or automatically report to a global EPI database,
    but it sure has 1,000 ways to generate Aging Reports and auto resubmit insurance claims.

  4. no shit by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Almost everyone who's ever used a line of business app could have told you this. Good LOB apps will ask the question "how can we use PC to make the experience more efficient?". Bad ones will just say "paper sucks, lets make it digital!" have the exact same fields a paper would have, but make you type it. The bad ones might be marginally easier for management because of their rudimentary search and reporting, but are usually no different or even worse for the actual day to day users.

    Yet management is continually suckered into thinking less paper == more efficient, and there are _a lot_ of bad LOB apps out there because of it.

  5. Parkinson's laws by vurtigalka · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Results like these shouldn't surprise anyone aware of Parkinson's laws. From Why it is Important that Software Projects Fail:

    The boundless creativity of politicians and bureaucrats to develop new and more complex regulation is bounded only by the bureaucracy's inability to implement them. The absolute size of the bureaucracy is constrained by external factors, so the only effect of automation can be to increase bureaucratic complexity.

    Parkinson's laws are as valid and insightful as always. If someone by chance have missed them, here they are:

    Parkinson's First Law:
    Work expands or contracts in order to fill the time available.

    Parkinson's Second Law:
    Expenditures rise to meet income.

    Parkinson's Third Law:
    Expansion means complexity; and complexity decay.

    Parkinson's Fourth Law:
    The number of people in any working group tends to increase regardless of the amount of work to be done.

    Parkinson's Fifth Law:
    If there is a way to delay an important decision the good bureaucracy, public or private, will find it.

    Parkinson's Law of Delay:
    Delay is the deadliest form of denial.

    Parkinson's Law of Triviality:
    The time spent in a meeting on an item is inversely proportional to its value (up to a limit).

    Parkinson's Law of 1,000:
    An enterprise employing more than 1,000 people becomes a self-perpetuating empire, creating so much internal work that it no longer needs any contact with the outside world.

    Parkinson's Coefficient of Inefficiency:
    The size of a committee or other decision-making body grows at which it becomes completely inefficient.

  6. Re:Let me explain... by daveb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    >You: Computers have made my life much easier.
    >Harvard study: Computers don't save hospitals money.

    >Note the slight difference there?

    yes - but you missed the bit about efficiency. "Computers have made my life much easier." is usually how we express efficiency.

    Over a decade ago I did a stint at a hospital looking after the pathology database. When it was down and paper records were required then lives were at risk due to the lack of efficiency (time spent accessing paper). It honestly scared me!

      I'm sure things are much much more reliant on computers now. Computers are not just for the hospital admins.

  7. building bad clinical systems is harder by r00t · · Score: 5, Interesting

    We are over ambitious. The more code we write, the more bugs we create.

    The trouble with hospital data is that it is messy. You have to accept that.

    It's tempting to design a hospital data system with specific fields for each item, every procedure enumerated, and every field validated. You want to normalize your data. You want it neat and tidy. You can work very hard trying to enforce this. You're screwed though, because life isn't like that.

    You'd be better off with relatively "dumb" software, almost like a wiki, that lets you efficiently handle arbitrary text and arbitrary data blobs. It needs fast Google-style search. It needs to allow arbitrary associations so you can handle stuff like a patient claiming to have the same social security number as a different patient or a patient who claims to have a different identity than he did the last time he visited.

    Then you need to keep medical staff away from both paper and computers. Data entry is for data entry specialists.