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FCC Lets Radar Company See Through Walls

DesertNomad writes "Attorney Mitchell Lazarus over at CommLawBlog gives a good overview of a new radar technology and the challenges of getting regulatory approval, which seemingly can be just as difficult as developing the technology itself."

18 of 179 comments (clear)

  1. "Go 'way, 'batin!" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    *knock knock*
    "Go 'way, 'batin!"
    "Sir, we are well aware of your current status, we can see through your walls. However, that's not why we're here--we would like to discuss the illegal transmitter you are running on your roof right now."

  2. What are the chances by jnmontario · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Any guesses that clients of this company include the NSA, FBI....

  3. do not want by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Here comes my tax dollars, with a new technology to help arrest me.

    1. Re:do not want by MrFurious5150 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh, I'm sure it'll never be abused...like wiretapping, or tasers. *cough*

  4. Fuzzbuster by snspdaarf · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How long before someone markets a radar detector for the home or office?

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  5. Soon.. by natehoy · · Score: 4, Funny

    The server manager will upload a new hack that prevents wallhacking. In the mean time, keep voting the cheaters off the CS server.

    Oh, wait, this is real life?

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  6. Gonna be expensive by vegiVamp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    All that tinfoil for the walls...

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    What a depressingly stupid machine.
  7. Re:Stop scaremongering by brxndxn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think a lot of people are just afraid that the 'law' is becoming too proactive. Our society (at least in the US) likes the idea of treating a house as a 'black box' where only the external features are noticed. If there is a problem inside the box, people come out and interact. Now, law enforcement can peer into that private box whenever they want..

    Even though the technology has a lot of non-scary uses (rescue), it is easy to imagine it being used by every cop to peer right into the very center of our private lives while we are in our homes. So ya.. it is scary.

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  8. Resolution by worip · · Score: 3, Informative
    3.5GHz translates to a ~8cm wavelength (maybe a bit less with the speed of light being slower in air). Resolving features that vary in amplitude of say less than 2cm (breathing and swaying) requires VERY accurate phase detection and time measurement equipment. Which translates to some very fast hardware doing phase correlation etc. From the article:

    Instead, the L-3 CyTerra device sends pulses on 200 different frequencies, one at a time, ranging in sequence from 3101 to 3499 MHz at 2 MHz intervals.

    and

    The system is sensitive enough to detect the chest motions of a person who is unconscious but breathing, or the slight swaying of a person trying to stand perfectly still

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  9. Must be deployed only with court orders. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The system described is an active device, not passive. An active device emits radiation and listens to echo. A passive device just listens to naturally occurring radiation emanating from a source. Police and private parties might use a passive device at their own discretion. But an active device, that actually illuminates the target would violate expectations of privacy and should not be deployed without court supervision. It should be treated like wiretapping, no need to inform the targets but the police should not be able to use the technology willy-nilly at their own discretion.

    Also we could create devices that look for patterns of radiation and emit jamming or stealth or confusing radiation in response to thwart being seen through the walls. Something like the radar detectors. These devices should be legal. And since the idea has been posted publicly, (i.e. here in slashdot by yours truly) any patent to such devices should specific to that device, not a broad based patent like one-click. Unless patent application for such a device has already been filed.

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    1. Re:Must be deployed only with court orders. by srollyson · · Score: 5, Informative

      The Supreme Court ruled that thermal devices require a warrant in Kyllo v. United States. I'm sure this radar system will follow precedent.

  10. Re:Stop scaremongering by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Insightful

    the article itself is nothing less than enthusiastic about the range of uses for it.

    Sad, isn't it? At least I think so. Like someone's sig said, Orwell was an optimist.

    What I see happening more and more is that people are fearing technology because of what "bad people" will do with it

    Unfortunately the very worst people run the world's governments. Tech that the powerful can have but I can't have IS bad tech. You don't think your government will let you build one of these to look through your governor's walls, do you? Hell, many governments won't even let the population have firearms. The fault isn't technology, it's technology that you posess and I can't.

    I'd only embrace this technology if legal safeguards are in place, and considering that my government is a whooly-owned subsidiary of the corporations, I doubt that will happen. If you say "tech is tech" you're wrong. No irony, just your own misunderstanding of the bigger picture.

  11. Re:Stop scaremongering by plasmacutter · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Let's not mention FLIR (forward looking infra-red) allows law enforcement to see through walls anyway with remarkable resolution.

    They still need a warrant to use it, but let's just say there's a possibility that what goes on in your bathroom won't just be between you and god.

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  12. Re:Stop scaremongering by erroneus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Some might read that as "probable cause." Though this is not quite the same thing, there was one "sting" operation that was run by some people (and I believe it was mentioned here on slashdot before) who decided to rent a house and grow some evergreen trees inside it. Within a day or so, "anonymous tips" informed the police that there was marijuana being cultivated at that location. The reality was that the police was using some sort of heat sensing device and was patrolling neighborhoods with it to look for "grow houses." In short, they were on a fishing expedition.

  13. Re:Stop scaremongering by troll8901 · · Score: 4, Funny

    law enforcement can peer into that private box whenever they want ... it is easy to imagine it being used by every cop to peer right into the very center of our private lives while we are in our homes ...

    When they peer into the basement, chances are, they'll see a hand moving rapidly ...

    What? I'm referring to basement spring-cleaning, in time for the festive season! After all, we geeks really enjoy doing housework, don't we?

  14. Re:Stop scaremongering by Bakkster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Let's not mention FLIR (forward looking infra-red) allows law enforcement to see through walls anyway with remarkable resolution.

    They still need a warrant to use it

    Here's the trick, isn't it? As far as I can tell, our justice system for criminal offenses is still relatively transparent. People still get cases dismissed because the cops did something wrong, such as not obtaining a warrant. If they're busting into your house with a warrant already, I see no sense in complaining about what technology they may or may not use to prepare. Especially with the potential benefits against being surprised by the visitor to your house, or the ability to detect weapons before they're encountered (preventing unintended injuries). Or even just the ability to make sure you're home before busting in your door thinking you're avoiding them.

    Basically, complain about the search and seizure, complain about not obtaining warrants, but don't complain about the specific technology used unless there are concerns about safety (taser) or efficacy (too many false-positives).

    Of course, the big reason why fire departments want this is because FLIR doesn't work on a burning building, this will let them identify breathing victims to minimize their risk and let them rescue as many as possible. The benefit for police is more marginal, though still significant. But if you're worried about cops having the capability to lok into your house, they already do (and SCOTUS have said it requires a warrant).

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  15. Article is misleading on primary use by amstrad · · Score: 3, Informative

    The article is misleading with regard to the primary use of this device. The device was developed for military use in urban combat situations.

    EMMDAR: ElectroMagnetic Motion-Detection And Ranging

    It was developed because infantry were holding up standard handheld mine detectors (AN/PSS-14) that use ground penetrating radar against walls trying to determine threat levels in neighbouring buildings or rooms. Troops would then interpret the audio tones to determine rooms contents.

    This device simply makes that technology smaller and more accessible and includes DSP algorithms to display potential threats (i.e. movement) on a graphical display.

    Other common uses for this device is search and rescue, both military and civilian. Of course the FBI and SWAT is going to want this technology. Any time law enforcement is going to assualt a building, this device is going to prove invaluable in saving lives.

    Nobody is going to pratically use this device for random checking of homes.

  16. Re:Stop scaremongering by thisnamestoolong · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What will stop the cops from cruising down the street looking into peoples' houses, spotting illegal activity, telling a judge that they received an anonymous tip, obtaining a warrant, and then legally raiding your home. Answer: nothing. To further expound, we can absolutely expect this to happen if this sort of technology becomes common-place. The government is not in the business of protecting the citizens anymore -- it is in the business of keeping us scared of as many things as possible to preserve its own power.

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