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Treading the Fuzzy Line Between Game Cloning and Theft

Posted by Soulskill on from the welcome-to-the-world-of-policeactioncraft dept.

eldavojohn writes "Ars analyzes some knockoffs and near-knockoffs in the gaming world that led to problems with the original developers. Jenova Chen, creator of Flower and flOw, discusses how he feels about the clones made of his games. Chen reveals his true feelings about the takedown of Aquatica (a flOw knockoff): 'What bothers me the most is that because of my own overreaction, I might have created a lot of inconvenience to the creator of Aquatica and interrupted his game-making. He is clearly talented, and certainly a fan of flOw. I hope he can continue creating video games, but with his own design.' The article also notes the apparent similarities between Zynga's Cafe World and Playfish's Restaurant City (the two most popular Facebook games). Is that cloning or theft? Should clones be welcomed or abhorred?"

40 of 235 comments (clear)

  1. Warcraft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One of the world's most popular computer game franchises is a clone of Games Workshop's tabletop/pen & paper games. That seems to work OK.

    (captcha = helmets)

    1. Re:Warcraft by somersault · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Saints Row 2 (haven't tried the first) is actually much better and IMO more in line with the GTA philosophy than GTA IV. I was surprised how good it was. Bring on the clones. We don't have to play the crappy ones.

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      which is totally what she said
    2. Re:Warcraft by Sockatume · · Score: 2, Funny

      There's scant little "pen and paper" in Warhammer, and the gameplay is bugger-all like Warcraft. The setting is a knock-off but the game sure as hell isn't.

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      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    3. Re:Warcraft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not Warhammer Online... Games Workshop put out the original Warhammer, a tabletop miniatures strategy game, back in 1983. Warcraft: Orcs and Humans came out in 1994 and completely ripped off the style as well as many of the gameplay concepts. The way the orcs talk, the races in the game, the art style, it's all blatantly copied from Warhammer. And now some people have the gall to call Warhammer Online's art style a "ripoff" of World Of Warcraft.

    4. Re:Warcraft by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For a guy that has so much to do that he never gets bored any more, that's saying a lot.

      There's a difference between "never gets bored" and "easily amused".

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    5. Re:Warcraft by Nathrael · · Score: 2, Informative

      To be fair though, Blizzard cooperated a lot with Games Workshop iirc. GW even did some concept art for them.

      --
      A good education is a bit like a STD - it makes you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and gives you a desire to spread it.
    6. Re:Warcraft by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually Warcraft was originally a licensed Warhammer game, but it got cancelled. Then Blizzard decided to change it just enough to avoid infringement and released it anyway.

      Which is why it's so ironic that Warhammer online is accused of being a copy of Warcraft.

    7. Re:Warcraft by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Cloning is what caused the videogame crash of 1983. The popular console of the time, Atari VCS/2600, was an open platform with ~25 million users so everyone was trying to create quick clones of previously-created Atari and Activision games. For example: Coconuts is an obvious clone of Kaboom with near-identical play mechanic, but nowhere near as good.

      What then happened was a major overload of games, most of which were not worth buying, and consumers got feed up and simply stopped buying. Sales fell-off during 1983, game prices plummeted from $30 to $5, and after Christmas many companies went bankrupt.

      I think we're going to see the same thing happen now. There are too many games flying around on Facebook, iPhone, and other net-connected services, people will burn-out, and sales will plummet.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    8. Re:Warcraft by thisnamestoolong · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think that, paradoxically, the tool we have that is inundating us with information (the Internet) is also the greatest weapon against this happening. With the way information is processed, it becomes trivial to sort through all the crap out there and skim the sweet delicious cream from the top of the Intarwebz (ewwww....)

      --
      To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
    9. Re:Warcraft by russotto · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yes, and Warhammer was a rip off of Tolkien who was a rip off of god knows how many people.

      When you copy from a small group of well-known identifiable individuals who are still living (or in existence, for corporations), that's "rip off". When you copy from a large group of relatively obscure individuals who are not only dead, but may be unknown and whose descendants don't even know who they are, that's "research".

    10. Re:Warcraft by StuartHankins · · Score: 2, Insightful

      it becomes trivial to sort through all the crap out there and skim the sweet delicious cream from the top of the Intarwebz (ewwww....)

      For many things it's not trivial. For instance, have you tried locating apps in the App Store lately? To say that it's tedious doesn't do it justice -- way way way too many choices that aren't relevant. I recently looked for a free painting program and after trying various forms of paint, draw, edit image etc I eventually had to use the term "sketch" to find what I was looking for. It was just dozens of pages of crap, many of which had nothing to do with painting / drawing. For my purposes these were synonyms yet to the search engine they were not. And yes I tried Google also, and again there were so many hits, many outdated, that finding "real" content was a problem. So many dupes that I couldn't easily tell what options I had.

      As another example, commonly-used terms such as OpenOffice's Calc or Write -- try searching for those and see what you get. Or OO Draw. How about tips for MS Paint?

      We need a semantic web because so many of the content is based on keywords which are either inexact or are also commonly used words. We need to be able to grep the web in a more efficient manner.

    11. Re:Warcraft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Can you provide a citation for that? It sounds plausible, but Wikipedia does not have this info, so either your information is mistaken, or a rather noteworth peice of informqation is missing from Wikipedia. If you can find a citation for this, could you please also add it to wikipedia, or at least post it to the wikipedia talk page.

    12. Re:Warcraft by LandDolphin · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hope they fired whoever made the choice not to go through with Warcraft being a a licensed Warhammer game.

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      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
    13. Re:Warcraft by LOLLinux · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, he can't. It's a widespread internet rumor that no one actually can provide real evidence for.

    14. Re:Warcraft by Odin_Tiger · · Score: 2

      What then happened was a major overload of games, most of which were not worth buying, and consumers got feed up and simply stopped buying.

      *cough*Wii*cough*

      I got a Wii about two years ago, and haven't bothered to even browse the Wii section of games in stores in probably 1.5 years. It's basically just a convenient emulator as far as I'm concerned - it's simply not worth the bother of browsing through the gobs and gobs of utterly horrible movie-tie-in and mini-game shovelware to find the bare handful of games that are Wii exclusives and worth playing. I can understand trying to hit a broader / more casual market, but I don't think anybody can deny that the vast majority of Wii games are simply shit without crossing their fingers behind their back.

      --
      Unpleasantries.
  2. Sometimes clones surpass the original by cheesybagel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Starcraft is one example. I would rather play Starcraft than C&C.

    1. Re:Sometimes clones surpass the original by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ...and Starcraft is a clone of Warhammer 40,000, the sci-fi version of Warhammer Fantasy Battles. Blizzard rips off Games Workshop again. Zerg = Tyranids, Terrans = The Imperium of Man, Protoss = Eldar...

    2. Re:Sometimes clones surpass the original by cheesybagel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not just Starship Troopers, but Dune as well. God Emperor of Man? Astropaths? Space Marine training grounds often look like Salusa Secundus.

    3. Re:Sometimes clones surpass the original by Chyeld · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Blizzard doesn't make new. Blizzard takes what's out there in raw form and polishes it so much that you have to be careful you go blind from the glare.

      This is their 'special ability', it's what they do.

  3. Culture vs Consumerism by QuantumG · · Score: 4, Insightful

    at its finest. "This is plagiarism!!" No it's not, you tool, it's conversation. Your attitude is exactly what is wrong with the world copyright has built. You don't own that idea, it belongs to the ages.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
    1. Re:Culture vs Consumerism by tepples · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Copyright applies to expression, not ideas. The motivation to make new ideas is that you can make money off the execution of the idea. That's why Linux and Wine aren't copies of UNIX and Windows respectively, even though they implement the same idea (the POSIX API and the Win32 API).

    2. Re:Culture vs Consumerism by TheKidWho · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Only temporary monopolies called Trademarks and Copyrights.

      The fact that they are being extended for well beyond their original intended life span is what's wrong with the system. I blame Disney.

    3. Re:Culture vs Consumerism by badpazzword · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Are you trying to claim there was no reason whatsoever to innovate or create art before patents and copyright were introduced?

      --
      When ideas fail, words become very handy.
  4. There's no line by vadim_t · · Score: 4, Insightful

    First, there's no theft. There could possibly be copyright infringement if somebody is using somebody else's graphics.

    Second, there doesn't seem to be any copyright infringement, since as far as I can tell nothing is being copied. Copyright only applies to copies of the original material. Making your own graphics that look a lot like something else is not copyright infringement.

    There could possibly be trademark infringement, but that's most definitely not theft.

    And what's the big deal, anyway? For every successful game, there have always been a few clones.

    1. Re:There's no line by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Here's your source material:

      U.S. Copyright Office - Games

      Copyright does not protect the idea for a game, its name or title, or the method or methods for playing it. Nor does copyright protect any idea, system, method, device, or trademark material involved in developing, merchandising, or playing a game. Once a game has been made public, nothing in the copyright law prevents others from developing another game based on similar principles. Copyright protects only the particular manner of an author’s expression in literary, artistic, or musical form.

      Material prepared in connection with a game may be subject to copyright if it contains a sufcient amount of literary or pictorial expression. For example, the text matter describing the rules of the game or the pictorial matter appearing on the gameboard or container may be registrable.

      The back side of this form letter describes the options for registering copyrightable portions of games. If your game includes any written element, such as instructions or directions, we recommend that you apply to register it as a literary work. Doing so will allow you to register all copyrightable parts of the game, including any pictorial elements. When the copyrightable elements of the game consist predominantly of pictorial matter, you should apply to register it as a work of the visual arts.

      The deposit requirements will vary, depending on whether the work has been published at the time of registration. If the game is published, the proper deposit is one complete copy of the work. If, however, the game is published in a box larger than 12" * 24" * 6" (or a total of 1,728 cubic inches) then identifying material must be submitted in lieu of the entire game. (See “identifying material” below). If the game is published and contains fewer than three threedimensional elements, then identifying material for those parts must be submitted in lieu of those parts. If the game is unpublished, either one copy of the game or identifying material should be deposited.

      Identifying material deposited to represent the game or its three-dimensional parts usually consists of photographs, photostats, slides, drawings, or other two-dimensional representations of the work. The identifying material should include as many pieces as necessary to show the entire copyrightable content of the work, including the copyright notice if it appears on the work. All pieces of identifying material other than transparencies must be no less than 3" * 3" in size, and not more than 9" * 12", but preferably 8" * 10". At least one piece of identifying material must, on its front, back, or mount, indicate the title of the work and an exact measurement of one or more dimensions of the work.

  5. No kidding by Sockatume · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If you, an intelligent Slashdot reader, can no longer distinguish between a genuine creative influence and copying something wholesale, then the notion of authorship is fucked, and it's all commodity.

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    No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
  6. Iteration leads to innovation by Kentaree · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why did someone write Linux when Unix was already out there? Why was Mario created when there were already other platform games out there? It's going to get harder and harder to come out with original ideas, e.g. look at any game released in the last 10 years, you can count truly innovative ones on both hands. But yet there's still games that come out, using a tried and tested formula, that are better than the rest. If there was no cloning, we'd have very few new games coming out ever.

  7. The great pet war of 2010 by Flixie · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think 2010 will be the year of the Great Pet War. Zynga just launched Petville, a Pet Society (Playfish) clone, and although it's arguably better looking, much of its content it's also embarrassingly familiar. http://petsocietyanonymous.com/2009/12/06/petville-vs-pet-society/

  8. Clones should be abhorred by Shinobi · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The reason is that no clone brings any innovation or evolution. Another problem is developers who confuse cloning and inspiration, thinking both equate the other. There are some who view any game inspired by theirs as a clone, but far more common are developers who straight off clone/plagiarize something and then claim it's inspired by as well as innovation blah blah, and it's not just game developers who are guilty of that. In fact, just look at development in various open source areas, and you'll see that they are more busy plagiarizing functionality and then spouting off some PR about innovation rather than actually engage in innovation. GIMP is one, the Linux project has a fair amount of it too. The various BSD's have also done this, but to a lesser extent.

    The FSF may claim that it somehow fosters innovation, but that's disingenious at best. Innovation is, when you get down to the root of it, to say "Who cares if others think I'm wasting my time, I'll do this completely new thing". Plagiarization fosters laziness and incompetence.

    1. Re:Clones should be abhorred by Sockatume · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think the truth lies somewhere in between. A mechanical, soul-less knock-off, like the flow example in the article, accomplishes nothing from a creative perspective. Yet even the most conservative "Doom Clone" brought some sort of rich addition to the design mix, even if it was just new levels. In the act of duplication, creative forces can be at work, producing a less-than-exact copy which carries with it some trace of the creative processes of the duplicator. There's a broad spectrum there.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    2. Re:Clones should be abhorred by vadim_t · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sorry, I don't give a damn about originality. I care about what matches my needs. Obviously a straight 1 to 1 feature clone isn't terribly interesting, but once you're there, you're probably going to want to differentiate your clone somehow, so you'll have to add improvements somewhere. That's where it gets interesting.

      It fosters innovation by the virtue of competition. For instance, you make a text editor and have the idea of adding syntax highlighting. Somebody else goes and makes their own editor, also with syntax highlighting. Now you need to do something new to be a better choice, so you add code folding. Then do too, and add a spell checker. And so on. There's your fostering of innovation.

      If you had the only editor in existence you wouldn't have a lot of motivation to make it better, you could just keep selling 10 year old code. But that wouldn't be very innovative.

      If you're so worried about somebody else copying your idea, get off your ass and improve your.

    3. Re:Clones should be abhorred by shish · · Score: 3, Insightful

      GIMP is one

      Last I checked the GIMP developers were trying to be innovative, but all the users were screaming "No! Everything must work exactly the same way it does in photoshop!" :-P

      --
      I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
  9. It's copyright infringement, not theft! by Anita+Coney · · Score: 5, Insightful

    First, it's copyright infringement, not theft. And no one can "steal" your idea because ideas cannot be owned.

    Second, it's infringement if he infringed on your code, art work, or music. If not, it's not infringement.

     

    --
    If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
    1. Re:It's copyright infringement, not theft! by Anita+Coney · · Score: 3, Funny

      So it's entirely based on someone's feelings? Oh poor baby, someone liked your "idea" which you do not own. I feel so sorry for you.

      What is this fricken the Oprah?!

      --
      If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
    2. Re:It's copyright infringement, not theft! by Anita+Coney · · Score: 2, Informative

      Do you even know what plagiarism means? If the code was plagiarized, copied without citation, it was infringement. If not, there is no plagiarism.

      --
      If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
    3. Re:It's copyright infringement, not theft! by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, plagiarism and infringement are two very different things. For example, if you copied someone's ideas for a paper and took credit for them yourself, that would be plagiarism but not infringement; if you copied the paper itself but gave credit, that would not be plagiarism but would be infringement.

      Plagiarism is about who gets credit for things, not copying, while infringement is the other way around.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  10. Clones should be welcomed by rcastro0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Is that cloning or theft? Should clones be welcomed or abhorred?"

    Easy. Clones should be welcomed.

    1) They put innovation pressure on the original, benefiting everybody.
    2) They put price pressure on the original, benefiting everybody.
    3) They may create a better platform, a better product than the original, benefiting everybody.

    Everybody wins. Except when you look at the motivation to create original products in the first place. Will the clones lower the reward and make it less beneficial to be original?

    Hardly.

    1) A truly original and inovative product will take some time to clone -- there will be a lead, in which user base/fan base/multiplayer communities should create critical mass.
    2) Playing it right, the original *will* have goodwill. In other words, all things being fairly equal, people will likely stay with the original.
    3) Originality is a scale, not a binary concept. Games are more or less original. Per (2) above, clones will need to compete in originality just like their inspiration did. When each clone out of many tries to be a little more original than the next, they may arrive at a quite original game, per Darwin. This could happen even though they started off at a lower plateau of originality than the concept originator. Think StarCraft.
    4) In this sense, everyone is (or must be) original to be relevant. Originality is not at risk.

    I hope that didn't sound too confusing :-)

    --
    Quem a paca cara compra, paca cara pagará.
  11. Re:Visual Style by daid303 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So it's just style that counts?

    Aquatica is a clone of Flow for a different platform. So someone took a game they liked, changed platform, and released it so the world could enjoy it in a different way.

    Clones don't happen because of lack of imagination, but because someone sees more in it then the original developer.

  12. Re:SMB1 may have been the first by russotto · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In the early 1980s, there weren't other scrolling platform games. As far as I can tell, SMB1 was the first game to use scrolling instead of a Donkey Kong-style single screen or Pitfall!-style page flipping.

    There were plenty of scrolling non-platform games, e.g. Zaxxon and Defender. I'm pretty sure there were vertically scrolling Donkey Kong clones as well.

  13. Ketara (makers of Aquatica) have apologized by Francis · · Score: 2, Informative

    I haven't seen this mentioned yet - Ketara, the makers of Aquatica, have credited Jason Chen, creator of flOw, with the concept. On their website, they explain that they intended no disrespect, and have apologized for it. They viewed Aquatica as a fan remake.

    Because of the controversy it caused, they have removed Aquatica from the app store - it is no longer available.

    http://www.ketara.ca/aqua.html

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    --
    #include <malloc.h>
    free(your.mind);