EU Recommends Noise Limits On MP3 Players

A story at the BBC notes increasing pressure from the European Commission to set standards that would limit the maximum volume on portable MP3 players. Their reasoning is that it would protect users from damaging their hearing after listening to loud music for extended periods. Quoting: "This follows a report last year warning that up to 10m people in the EU face permanent hearing loss from listening to loud music for prolonged periods. EU experts want the default maximum setting to be 85 decibels, according to BBC One's Politics Show. Users would be able to override this setting to reach a top limit of 100 decibels. ... Some personal players examined in testing facilities have been found to reach 120 decibels, the equivalent of a jet taking off, and no safety default level currently applies, although manufacturers are obliged to print information about risks in the instruction manuals. Modern personal players are seen as more dangerous than stationary players or old-fashioned cassette or disk players because they can store hours of music and are often listened to while in traffic with the volume very high to drown out outside noise."

Comments

But how to do that?

[Anonymous Coward]

But how to do that?
The effect used to play at 85db is not the same across all headphones.
The small tiny ones that comes with the player normaly need less effect to reach 85db then if you get some nice big headphones with better sound.

Re:But how to do that?

[SpooForBrains]

No, what would happen is that the levels would be calibrated either arbitrarily, or with whatever standard earbuds come with the device.

Those of us that go out and buy decent earphones will then just have to deal with them being too quiet, and no one important enough will give a shit.

Re:But how to do that?

[BrokenHalo]

While all our governments are in a nanny-state frame of mind, they might turn their attention more usefully to the kind of amplification given to bands in pubs and clubs, where the dimensions of the places are often small enough to hear the sound of a mouse fart from one side of the room to another, but the bands turn up the volume as high as they can anyway. Or at least in a mathematically inverse ratio to their musical ability.

It's common to see musicians playing with plugs stuck in their ears so they don't drive themselves stone deaf, while they obviously consider it perfectly OK for them to obliterate the hearing of customers frequenting the place.

I realise I'm probably a tedious old fart, but I've long been forced to recognise that my hearing is far from what it was when I was a teenager or even in my twenties, and I hold many of these crappy bands to blame.

Re:But how to do that?

[areusche]

All in all that doesn't matter. This is just another example of ignorant politicians. As a sound designer these dB SPL levels are USELESS with a reference point. 85 dB SPL at 10 meters from a source is a busy room, while 60-65 dB is general room noise. Also 120 dB SPL is the threshold of pain. At or above that our body starts to respond by desensitizing and tinnitius. In incremental doses our body adapts to loud sounds. Limiting headphone output is a farce and manufactures should focus on limiting outside interference. Never use ear buds.

Re:But how to do that?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because you couldn't possibly be responsible for your own behavior.

Funny how telling someone to take responsibility for his own behavior has now become the best way to avoid taking responsibility for one's own actions.

Re:But how to do that?

[John Hasler]

> By that logic, this regulation of mp3 player volume level shouldn't exist
> either because the owners of the players should be responsible for their
> own actions and turn down the volume.

You're very quick.

Do what we say, not what we do

[Anonymous Coward]

Hearing loss is bad if it is caused by MP3 players, but it's okay when it's caused by police using crowd control devices against innocent civilians.

Re:Do what we say, not what we do

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

http://www.atcsd.com/site/content/view/15/32/

Known to have been used at the G20, probably other events as well.

Wrong approach entirely

[BadAnalogyGuy]

A technical problem requires a technical solution.

Instead of forcing media player manufacturers to implement a volume limiter, just force them to include a jamming frequency and allow third parties to sell jammers. When a person feels that someone's music is intruding on their personal space (in a bus, on a train, or anywhere that people are in close contact), a single button press could send a piercing squeal right through whatever audio the earbud guy had playing.

This has two benefits. First, if there are multiple people around and it is difficult to determine who is listening loudly, this gets all of them in one shot. Second, if a person's earbuds are so loud that the sound is invading someone else's personal space, the brief tone should be enough to put their eardrums out permanently.

Re:Wrong approach entirely

[Yvan256]

The issue here is not the ambient noise produced by the earphones, but the damage to the listener.

You're not making any sense!

Imagine you're a car, and you want to put the wrong kind of gas in your tank.

That's a much better explanation, thanks!

Better Headphones

[secondsun]

Since we are going the consumer protect route, wouldn't it be better for headphones/ear buds to require noise cancelling technologies so the music doesn't have to be turned up as high?

That would make it harder to hear things while driving, but you shouldn't have headphones in while driving.

Re:Better Headphones

[tomhudson]

Besides, if hearing is your main truck avoidance mechanism, you've got other problems.

People have been killed by trains because their walkmans (yes - it was happening even back then) were too loud. That's why some places have banned the use of ANY earphone-equipped music player when driving a car or riding a bicycle. And when you're driving, hearing is an important part of your awareness - not only for that "slightly odd mechanical noise" that might signal trouble down the road, but also such things as the noise-generating grooves along the right shoulder to warn people that they're straying off the road (or to wake them up if they're drowsing off), and the sound of the motorcycle or car that just pulled into your blind spot.

Forget disabled users...

[Manip]

I have very bad hearing, have done since I was a kid (even had surgery to correct it). I listen to music roughly 10-15% louder than most of my peers. In a noisy room louder still. If they limit volume on my MP3 player will I have to hack it in order to listen to it at a reasonable volume for me?

Wish they would regulate TV channels first.

[rolfwind]

My music usually doesn't surprise me with sudden shifts of maximum volume. But every time a program switches to commercial on TV, the max volume is a shit load louder and with more commercials than ever before that means fiddling with the remote every other minute. It wasn't always this way and is way annoying.

Re:Wish they would regulate TV channels first.

[Hurricane78]

So why do you still watch TV in the first place? Go to eztv.it, or btjunkie.org, and let the stuff download on your home server. Fire-and-forget style. I even download whole shows. All series.

It’s like a Tivo. Only that it’s free, and people manually removed the ads for you. :)

I still use a remote and a big screen. Just that they are attached to my PC. (And that the screen is 9 feet wide and the sound is 5.1 :)

And how will this work?

[Sycraft-fu]

The volume that you get out of phones depends on the voltage sent to the phones, which the volume dial regulates, but also the impedance and sensitivity of the phones, which it can't. So whatever limit you set won't work in all cases. If you limit it to 85dB for ultra efficient phones like the Ultimate Ears UE5s (21 ohms, 119dB/mw) it will be extremely silent on Sennheiser 580s (300 ohms, 97dB/mw). Likewise set the limit on the Sennheisers, and the UEs would still be able to go to extremely excessive volumes.

This just can't be done. Unless you force players to accept only a certain headphone, you can't limit the output in this manner. The range of headphone is extremely wide. With speakers this is mildly feasible since most speakers are 8 ohms (though there are plenty of 4 ohm ones, and some 12 or higher) and generally in the range of 85-90dB/watt (though there are speakers over 100dB/watt). However with headphones the variation is too much.

This will do nothing useful.

I travel on the Tube to work

[David Gerard]

It's a pity the EU doesn't apply noise limits to public transport. The Victoria Line of the London Underground regularly hits 100dB. Travel on it to work every day for five years and your hearing will be permanently fucked up by it. Like mine.

+1, funny?

[Anonymous Coward]

SkullCandy? Really guys? Do yourself a favor and go pick up a pair of Sennheiser CX-300 II's. They will blow what you have away and only cost ~$35. SkullCandy is overpriced trash.

Nanny state

[Dunbal]

Since when is a government in charge of proper parenting? Have we now delegated "common sense" to bureaucrats?

I certainly remember my parents warning me of the dangers of listening to loud music. I have warned my children. Because children rarely listen, I often have to reinforce this warning, and even take their iPods away when I catch them. This is called parenting. It's not 100% successful. My children are not drilled soldiers and so they don't always listen to me. That's normal. I didn't always listen to my parents, either. However it's my job to keep trying.

      The possibilities for one human to harm himself or others are limitless. Are we going to have to legislate each one? Every single law a government makes takes away something from the people. Yes it's stupid to deafen yourself by listening to loud music. However PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO BE STUPID. Laws normally help prevent or settle dispute between citizens. It's not right that you play your music on your stereo at full volume in your crowded downtown neighborhood at 3am. Not everyone out of your 400 neighbors is in a partying mood. It's not right that you drive drunk and plow your car into another because of your intoxication. It's not right that everyone in the airplane has to put up with your stench if you haven't quit smoking yet. However who is harmed, apart from yourself, if you wear headphones and crank up the volume?

      The real danger here, I believe, is that sort of legislation that is trying to accomplish one thing - perhaps some legislator is tired of listening to the tinny sounds of people's MP3 players cranked at full volume in public - under the guise of something else - "oh we're doing it to save people from themselves".