Slashdot Mirror


Religion in Video Games

The Opposable Thumbs blog recently took a look at how religious themes are handled in video games. Most makers of mainstream games are hesitant, given the strong feelings of most consumers on the subject, but other companies are trying desperately to bring religion into the spotlight. Quoting: "Part of the problem is that the game industry is often touted as being a corrupting influence for the youth of the world. Criticism against the game industry has come from leaders as high up as the current Pope, and many of us who have been exposed to sermons bemoaning the influence that games and movies have on kids. Even when groups like the Christian Game Developers Foundation put out a video encouraging developers to create wholesome titles for kids, the attitude conveyed towards current members of the industry was contemptuous at best. Needless to say, games with heavy religious content are usually fringe projects, independently created and oftentimes sporting dodgy production values, because publishers wisely don't want to risk boycotts from legions of the faithful."

29 of 523 comments (clear)

  1. First, make a good video game by Hawthorne01 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Then worry about the religious content. If it's not a good game (or movie, or song, or book) you can stuff it to the gills with religious messages, and no one outside of your particular religious community will ever buy it. Build a better game (or movie, or song, or book) and the world will come to you. (See: Sufjan Stevens, C.S. Lewis, VeggieTales, etc.).

    --
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
    1. Re:First, make a good video game by Akira+Kogami · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or you can make a good video game based on religious themes, mythology, and history, rather than one with religious messages. A lot of religious mythology would make pretty awesome settings for games.

    2. Re:First, make a good video game by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But the whole point of these Christian "developers", like Christian "rock/pop musicians" is not to put out a quality product, it's to get the faithful to fork over money. Obviously these kinds of products are not going to be marketed at the mainstream, because the mainstream could give a shit about a bunch of whacked-out Evangelicals and snake-oil dealers.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    3. Re:First, make a good video game by Monsuco · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But the whole point of these Christian "developers", like Christian "rock/pop musicians" is not to put out a quality product, it's to get the faithful to fork over money.

      In other words, rather then being the "snake oil" dealers you claim they are, they are just simply like every single business on the planet. They identify a market, then they look for a way to make money serving that market. There is clear demand for Christian Rock, and the customers obviously buy the music because they enjoy its message, just as one might buy a regular album (or especially a concept album) because one enjoys its message.

      The only problem with video games is they are expensive to produce and to buy. A series of Christian games might work, but it is a gamble. Books and songs require relatively less staff than a video game. Of course, a game with an underlying religious message could very much stand a chance at success, but an expressly "Christian Game" might not.

    4. Re:First, make a good video game by timmarhy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      the only thing that you got right is that religion is a business like any other.

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    5. Re:First, make a good video game by paiute · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A video game based on the Bible would be more violent than GTA and have to be rated M++ for all the sex.

      --
      If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
    6. Re:First, make a good video game by darthdavid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Man I fucking hate that phrase. There are plenty of nonreligious people in the military and plenty of people who don't turn to god just because they're in a life threatening situation. I know you were making a joke but every time that old chestnut gets dragged out it makes a mockery of those who are willing to put their life on the line for country and kin knowing that if they're right in their beliefs then death is nonexistence and if they're wrong then it's probably some sort of hell (most religions take a rather dim view of non-believers...). Seems a hell of a lot braver than someone who goes into combat expecting to go to heaven if they buy the farm...

    7. Re:First, make a good video game by OeLeWaPpErKe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wait a second. Christian rock is bad because it doesn't have the macarena ?

      Check again ... bad ?

      Boy, I'd heard tastes differ, but I had no idea.

      Given that as little as a century ago a (very) large majority of music was purely religious, I'd take that "tools the 'other side' has used for centuries with a hefty helping of salt).

      Most of those "brilliant" themes you refer to being used in songs, imho, sound suspiciously familiar to someone with a decent knowledge of, heh, 16th century music. Very familiar indeed. One regularly recognizes long parts of those symphonies. Using strategic silences for suspense and dramatic effect has been done in operas since before the first letter was written in the bible.

      The fact that those themes are repeated is logical in a way, since that old music is still how music is taught even today. Which, honestly, is a good thing. You can't teach someone more than 2 notes or patterns longer than 5 seconds with any recent song.

      The "successful music" you refer to is merely the "big mac" version of last centuries' game feast. Yes they take very little time and effort to "enjoy to the fullest" (most take me less than a second to do that), but they're lacking in every single department. They're not satisfying, you cannot listen to them for even the paltry 2 minutes they last, most are rightfully identified as "noise", they're bad for the ear (and for the stomach if played at the "advised" volume), they lack depth, it is a rarity to have any kind of message in there, and ... They're "big macs". There's loads of music out there that you can listen to for 2 days continuously and still not be revolted by.

    8. Re:First, make a good video game by c_forq · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think you are missing the point of the phrase. At my place of work we recently had an employee collapse and be rushed to the hospital, after returning he stated "man, it is amazing how religious you can become when you have no control over your fate". He was not religious, but found himself praying almost constantly while he was in the hospital. The no atheist in the foxhole refers not to bravery or willingness to fight for something you believe it, but rather the reaction people have when their fate is taken out of their own hands in awful, grim situations. It's not about wanting heaven, it's about hoping to live.

      --
      Computers allow humans to make mistakes at the fastest speeds known, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns
  2. a game that tells the truth about religion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How about someone create a game that occurs during the inquisition when the ignorant Christians killed thousands of people who wouldn't convert to their religion?

    1. Re:a game that tells the truth about religion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Right after they make Total Eclipse, showing the brutality of Stalin's Russia.

      Thousands of people killed by Christians during the Middle Ages was a horror. Millions of people killed by atheist Soviets was worse by at least an order of magnitude.

    2. Re:a game that tells the truth about religion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But I'm sure it makes you feel better that atheists did it because they didn't want to "spread their religion". Even though I'm rather quite sure the USSR persecuted Christians in order to, you know, spread atheism.

      "Spread atheism," my ass. They encouraged fucking pilgrimages to observe the corpsicle of Lenin! Know what they didn't encourage? Skepticism, rationality, or reason! The three cornerstones of atheism.

        They created a goddamn religion around themselves and the state, complete with holy relics and faith-based "science." That's not atheism, so stop repeating that drivel. I'm guessing you're American, since American schools are so damn terrified to teach anything related to politics, that it churns out countless poor saps who don't understand that the label a politician slaps on himself usually has nothing to do with what he is.

      For example: The "Union" of "Soviet" "Socialist" "Republics" was actually an Empire(1) of Anti-soviet(2) State-capitalist(3) Dictatorships.(4)

      (1) - The satellite countries were generally added by military conquest, not some polite handshake, so it was Empire, not Union.
      (2) - The Bolsheviks first borrowed the anti-Bolshevik slogan "All power to the soviets!" for themselves to confuse people like you, then when they had seized power, they disbanded the soviets (which were independent democratically run worker's councils) and told everyone that they were no longer a necessary component for the workers to control the means of production, because the will of the workers was now somehow metaphysically embodied in the premier. (Another religious theme!)
      (3) - A socialist economy, where the workers actually controlled the means of production, was never anything more than a vague promise to be fulfilled, maybe, someday in the USSR. A rationed "command economy" was put in place as a "temporary" measure only for wartime. It never ended, because it gave the party too much power to skim and control. The whole system operated like one huge corrupt mega-corporation, except that the middle managers had guns and the cubicles were prisons.
      (4) - The last is self explanatory. With only one candidate to vote for you don't even have the choice of the lesser of two evils, and you can't honestly call it a Republic.

    3. Re:a game that tells the truth about religion by name*censored* · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There's an obvious difference here. The Christians persecute others to spread their religion. Atheists persecute others for other reasons. In this case, it was to spread political ideas rather than religious ones. Religion is a direct cause of many murders while atheism cannot be blamed for it because there's nothing in the ideology about committing murder in the name of any superstition.

      ... Unbelievable. You come within a hair's breadth of the astonishingly-obvious-yet-no-one-sees-it fact that the problem is not religion, it is extremism, of which religion is only a subset (though when I say subset I should say intersection, since at least one religious person doesn't want to go on a killing rampage). Yet you suddenly take a 90 degree turn and start rambling about how religion encourages murdering, even though it's explicitly banned in many (perhaps most) major religion and is only justified by twisting the words and intents of said religion (which is easy if your audience are uneducated peons, as they were during the Crusades/Inquisition).

      Besides which, this should have rang alarm bells:

      Atheists persecute others for other reasons

      Quite frankly, I don't care if they're persecuting others to spread religion, spread ideology, or to sell chocolates. I don't care what they call themselves. The whole damn problem is the persecution. The reason, by comparison, is unimportant and interchangeable - that's the whole friggin' idea behind Skub vs anti-Skub.

      --
      Commodore64_love: I don't comprehend people who're so frightened of death that they'll bankrupt themselves to stay alive
    4. Re:a game that tells the truth about religion by something_wicked_thi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How many people have Christians persecuted since, say, 1800?

      Women, gays, and blacks, to name the first three that pop into my head. That's >50% of the world's population right there. They may not be into killing and burning anymore, but they have definitely persecuted them.

      How many Christians have atheists killed for their Christianity?

      But I'm sure it makes you feel better that atheists did it because they didn't want to "spread their religion". Even though I'm rather quite sure the USSR persecuted Christians in order to, you know, spread atheism.

      No, they did it to spread communism. But the sister post here explains things better than I can. But let me leave you with one more thought. There's not a shred of evidence to support the superstitious belief that there's a god or almighty power or to support the various religions. We have no way to say whether Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Mormonism, or various others have it right. So why do people kill each other over these things? In light of this, the skeptical viewpoint is the only sensible one, and if we so far haven't been able to deal with that truth without killing people, then we need to figure out how. Trying to make everyone believe in the same superstition doesn't seem like a very workable solution here and religion has never been very good at tolerance. It's right there in the holy book that they're not supposed to be tolerant.

    5. Re:a game that tells the truth about religion by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby."

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    6. Re:a game that tells the truth about religion by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Newsflash: Hitler was at the very least a deist. Stalin was an equal-opportunity persecutor. Mussolini was a good Italian, and a catholic.

      Christians are not a persecuted minority. Get over it. You have no idea what actual persecution is like.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    7. Re:a game that tells the truth about religion by ChromeAeonium · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It is a hobby if you go around talking about how great it is to not collect stamps, and join not collecting stamp clubs, and read Not Collecting Stamps Monthly. I get where that sentiment is coming from, I really do, and have to say I agree with it, but I don't think that it is always the case anymore.

    8. Re:a game that tells the truth about religion by roca · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > Skepticism, rationality, or reason! The three cornerstones of atheism.

      The cornerstone of atheism is what the word means --- to believe in no god. Mao and Stalin may not have been the sort of atheists you like, but they were certainly keen on spreading their brand of atheism.

      You are committing the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

    9. Re:a game that tells the truth about religion by X0563511 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What you speak of is less the trappings of religion and more the trappings of assholes who want to feel better than you. I think every group is guilty of a few of these folks.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    10. Re:a game that tells the truth about religion by yndrd1984 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Worst case - converting to Christianity from Islam - can get you killed in many countries.

      To be fair, converting to anything from Islam can get you killed in those countries - it isn't really Christian-specific. Can you name someplace where Christians are hard-core persecuted significantly more than atheists or Jews?

    11. Re:a game that tells the truth about religion by LS · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If there were people killing each other over stamps and forcing others to be collectors, then I promise you there would be not collecting stamp organizations

      --
      There is a fine line between being a cultivated citizen and being someone else's crop. - A. J. Patrick Liszkie
    12. Re:a game that tells the truth about religion by selven · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem with these arguments is that 1930s Germany and Russia were just as religious as a devoutly Catholic state. Hitler took Christian Christmas carols and substituted God's name and Jesus's name with his own, in an attempt to make people worship him. Stalin did something very similar. The common pattern is that blind devotion to another being is dangerous. If you blindly worship your political leader, you're willing to slaughter people for him. If you blindly worship a deity (emphasis on the blindness here - Martin Luther was religious, but he saw the Church as a bunch of frauds), you're willing to slaughter people because his church tells you to.

    13. Re:a game that tells the truth about religion by yndrd1984 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How many people have Christians persecuted since, say, 1800?

      Where to begin?

      Dark skinned people can be used as work animals because they're "Hammites" - cursed by God for the sins of Ham after the flood.
      Plenty of US states' constitutions barred non-believers from public office.
      Some people are still trying to enforce them.
      Catholics and Protestants in Ireland.
      Some states won't allow single people to adopt kids - solely because that's the only legal way to bar gays from adopting.
      Then there's the whole gay marriage thing...
      And that's what I can come up with in two minutes while sleep deprived.

      But I'm sure it makes you feel better that atheists did it because they didn't want to "spread their religion".

      Killing people to spread Communism isn't the same thing as killing to spread atheism, atheism alone doesn't tell you to kill anyone (nor does it endorse any other moral stance). Christianity is based on a book that bluntly says to stone certain people to death, that repeatedly discusses the proper way to practice slavery, that says God approves of some kids of genocide (yes, in order to spread His religion) - you have to add something else (like a specific interpretation) to avoid endorsing the bad stuff.

    14. Re:a game that tells the truth about religion by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A society who has no death penalty or sense of objective morality historically leads to less & less morality and more violence.

      Yeah, because the US with its death penalty and religious freaks has less criminals per capita and less violence than Europe.

      I agree that killing people for not converting to Christianity is wrong. But, by definition, those who practice such things are not Christians.

      No, you're just pretending that all the Christians you don't like aren't Christians. Christianity was spread by killing those who wouldn't convert, it's well documented that's how it happened here in Norway (around 1000 AD) and the Church was fully supporting it. Most famous are of course the Crusades that were blessed by the Pope himself, but there are many more. They only stopped most the killing because the competition was dead, the roman mythology, the greek mythology, the norse mythology, the keltic mythology, all dead. And if you think the missionary efforts during colonization weren't backed up with a lot of lethal force, you are dreaming. The african tribal religions, the Mayan religion, the Aztec religion, the native American religions were all crushed by conquest and forcibly raising the population in the Christian tradition. You're just reaching for the moral high ground but you stand on a pile of skeletons.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  3. Religion isn't needed in video games by Darkness404 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't really see how religion is needed in video games. Plenty of games have used religious influences heavily. Fantasy games often use elements of Norse, Egyptian, Greek/Roman, and Christianity/Judaism in their games and that hasn't been a problem. People don't like being fed propaganda from any religious group so games based on any particular religion usually will fail (the fact that they are usually done by second-rate developers and are low budget doesn't help them either). But more than anything else, there is no need. Look at some games, either A) They are done in a fantasy setting and therefore having a real-world religion as a major theme is simply unrealistic or boring B) The focus is action rather than storyline development, most gamers don't care if the Spy from Team Fortress 2 was an agnostic, Buddhist or a scientologist. C) Religion would take away key parts of character development, for example Fallout 3, choosing a religion would effectively either make your character a hypocrite, unrealistic or would make decision making too simple.

    In the end, I don't think there is a need for religion in video games. While it will always and has always been referenced, theres just no good reason to put it in.

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
  4. Religion by Renraku · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Religion does exist in video games. They aren't usually the same religions as we have meatside, however. I think that's what people are complaining about. The problem is if you let, say, World of Warcraft priests worship the Christian god, then people will automatically boycott when it doesn't follow a particular sect's beliefs. In fact, they'd have no combat skills at all if they followed the word of the Bible.

    Instead, religions are made up, relatively shallow, and may be based on the history that took place in the game. Sounds a lot like real religions, doesn't it?

    --
    Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
  5. Ahh see they are being disingenuous by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They say they are interested in religion in games. Well, in fact there IS religion in quite a few games. In some cases a religious mythology forms the basis for the game's world, in other cases there are various religious characters who influence things and so on. That's not what they want. They want a game that evangelizes their religion. They want one that shoves it in your face, that tries to show it as The One True Way(tm).

    Well, games like that are basically always going to suck. Evangelism isn't fun. What's more, it turns off most people so major developers won't do it. When you have an inherently shitty premise and combine that with a shitty developer you are going to get a total crap fest.

    In terms of mainstream games, religion will continue to be a role in them as it always has been. Often it'll be fictional religions, since they are often set in fictional worlds. However you'll continue to see religious characters of one sort or another in games where such a thing is useful to the story. However you aren't going to see games designed around pushing a religion. Those aren't fun, and they won't sell well, so major publishers aren't going to fund them.

  6. Re:SimChurch by hackel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is probably the most brilliant "Sim" game I've heard of since SimCity! I would buy this in a second, it is really a brilliant idea! And it would be GREAT education for kids!

  7. maybe the problem is by AlgorithMan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    maybe the problem is that religious games (I don't know even one counter example) focus to much on conveying the religion and to little on stuff like A STORY, or GAMEPLAY... they're like most educational games, they just AREN'T FUN TO PLAY.
    http://www.cinemassacre.com/new/?p=3878
    http://www.cinemassacre.com/new/?p=4069

    --
    The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes