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China Moving To Restrict Neodymium Supply

GuyFawkes writes with this quote from the Independent: "Britain and other Western countries risk running out of supplies of certain highly sought-after rare metals that are vital to a host of green technologies, amid growing evidence that China, which has a monopoly on global production, is set to choke off exports of valuable compounds. Failure to secure alternative long-term sources of rare earth elements (REEs) would affect the manufacturing and development of low-carbon technology, which relies on the unique properties of the 17 metals to mass-produce eco-friendly innovations such as wind turbines and low-energy light bulbs. China, whose mines account for 97 per cent of global supplies, is trying to ensure that all raw REE materials are processed within its borders. During the past seven years it has reduced by 40 per cent the amount of rare earths available for export."

27 of 477 comments (clear)

  1. and why not ? by Zurk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They have fought to secure those same elements and done their homework. it gives them an economic advantage with both manufacturing and raw mining/refining done in the same place. most western countries in the same position would do the same as would any corporate entity in the western hemisphere. they can export the finished products at a huge markup compared to what they would get for raw minerals.

    1. Re:and why not ? by sopssa · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Exactly, and I think we will see much more such too. China is improving its economy fast currently, with the USA's economy crisis and huge debts. They're getting their foot between the door, and I think both China and Russia will be starting to have a lot larger influence on global economy soon. Russian entrepreneurs are already buying big shares of US companies and gaining larger share of US corporations. China (and Taiwan) is attacking from the cheap manufacturing and resources supply front, India is attacking from the cheap programming and computer technology front, and Russia is attacking from the ownership of US companies front. With the huge government debts and economic slowdown, what will happen to US? It's already known the spendings are too much and theres no possibility to live on debt forever.

    2. Re:and why not ? by abigor · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, China is a signatory to the WTO and curbing raw materials exports is a violation. The WTO is looking into the issue: http://www.purchasing.com/article/441486-WTO_to_study_China_s_raw_material_export_curbs.php

      No Western country could get away with limiting raw materials exports for secondary and tertiary onshore processing, though some have tried.

    3. Re:and why not ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > Another factor in the trade deficit is their willingness to simply rip off Western IP

      And the fault for that lies where, exactly? With the countries dumb enough to shift their economy to make trivially copied virtual products? Or the one smart enough to create actual goods which other people want to buy?

      Yep, I thought so. One side is being an idiot. The other is being smart. News flash! Smart eventually wins.

    4. Re:and why not ? by BosstonesOwn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      China is in the drivers seat here , do you really think they will stop abusing the power they have ? China is not going to give in easily , more then likely they will agree to some agreement that allows them to do what they want , and then cut production to fall under the line and keep doing what they want.

      Everything is made in China , they can be penalized and they won't care. They will keep doing it until we bar all Chinese products , good luck doing that.

      --
      This package Does Not Contain a Winner
    5. Re:and why not ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Shhh! What the hell are you trying to do? Crap on the next economic bubble before it even gets started? Just shut the fuck up and be glad Big Brother gives you an energy ration at all!!!

    6. Re:and why not ? by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not to mention the fact that China is building sub bases along with nuclear subs like there is no tomorrow which makes a China meltdown even scarier. Could it be they are getting ready in case they feel the need for some lebensraum? I don't know, but I bet if China suffers a major economic meltdown it really won't be pretty.

      But I wonder how much of this locking down the resources is for economic reasons, and how much is for military use? I'm sure every one of those minerals has a military as well as green use and with them building up their military like mad I wouldn't be surprised if they are locking it down to make it easy to divert supplies to the military as needed.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    7. Re:and why not ? by mrmeval · · Score: 4, Interesting

      We just pulled a large chunk of our production back from China. Shipping costs are too high.

      This move by the Chinese government may effect things a small amount but it will drive the profitability of recycling efforts skyward. It will stimulate innovation in the area of metamaterials that can take the place of scarce single element resources. It will also stimulate innovation in moving us as far as possible away from scare resources.

      This will again set China behind everyone else in the long term. And they will be making investors in new technologies piles of cash.

      --
      I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
    8. Re:and why not ? by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 4, Informative
      Just to make clear, this article does not say that China will not export Neodynium. They will, as ingots - lots of ingots. It's just that until now, they've been exporting the metal at much earlier stages of the refining process, so Western companies have been buying it up, processing it and selling it at a big markup. Now China is saying that they want to be the people to do that processing and collect the markup.

      Likewise, Canada wouldn't create a wood shortage if they announced that they will no longer sell logs but instead sell only kiln-dried boards.

    9. Re:and why not ? by TapeCutter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And I'm thinking... wind turbines, WTF? Wind power is fundamentally old technology; why is the new supposedly-greener generation dependent on stuff the old generation wasn't??

      Yes, I keep hearing this claim lately and my first reaction was the same as yours, surely non-green electrical generators and motors require good magnets?

      Also TFA is complete bullshit, China cannot corner the Neodymium market:- "The main mining areas are China, United States, Brazil, India, Sri Lanka and Australia; and reserves of neodymium are estimated at about 8 million tonnes. Although it belongs to "rare earth metals," neodymium is not rare at all - its abundance in the Earth crust is about 38 mg/kg,, which is the second among rare-earth elements after cerium. The world production of neodymium is about 7,000 tonnes per year."

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    10. Re:and why not ? by timeOday · · Score: 5, Informative

      Oh brother. Any issue with rare earth elements is completely dwarfed by our billion dollar per day dependency on foreign oil. Refusing to see the vast difference in scale between the two is completely irrational.

    11. Re:and why not ? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 4, Informative

      I work in the loudspeaker industry - we use a LOT of neo magnets. China is really about the only place in the world where you can get neo magnets made. The last vendor in the US closed years ago (General Magnetics down in Texas) not because of lack of sales but environmental regulations. Refining of neo into magnets and other materials has effectively been shut down in the US by regulations, meaning we have no choice but to buy neo based products from overseas (mainly China).

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    12. Re:and why not ? by zill · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I concur. While many other posters have rightly pointed out that Neodymium ores are abundant in the US, the discussion here is actually about refined Neodymium. Western nations simply cannot afford to mine and refine Neodymium within their boarder due to the enormous environmental impacts.

      In a sense, China is not cornering the Neodymium market using their mineral reserves, but rather with their willingness to sacrifice their environment along with bumping up the cancer rate of the populace by the few percentiles.

    13. Re:and why not ? by Runaway1956 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Also TFA is complete bullshit, China cannot corner the Neodymium market:"

      While that statement is true, you are distracting from the real issue. China is indeed striving to corner strategic mineral markets, and it's not "news".

      http://www.asianresearch.org/articles/3124.html 2008 article which points out China's growing presence in the African mineral trade market.

      http://www.chinamining.org/Companies/2009-03-26/1238054106d22981.html March 2009 article about China's growing presence in the common metals market, with passing reference to strategic metals.

      http://www.domain-b.com/industry/Mining/20090327_australia_rejects.html March 2009 story about China making a bid to take over Australian mining.

      http://english.cri.cn/7146/2009/01/08/1481s441134.htm January 2009 More to the point of this thread on slashdot, China is regulating the mining and export of strategic metals.

      And, of course, this all goes back to their 10-year plans, and their bid to dominate the world, economically, politically, and militarily - the "Assassin's Mace". People with the slightest clue are worried about neodymium - but they are still missing the "big picture". That damned Assassin's Mace is a working plan, that is moving ahead, while the rest of the world sleeps.

      The world economy won't improve, so long as China is waging an economic war, and we don't even realize it.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
  2. Unobtainium! by russlar · · Score: 4, Funny

    China is mining a vein of Unobtainium!

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    Anybody want my mod points?
  3. Proof free trade is a failure. by tjstork · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The whole point of free trade was to unlink, fundamentally, resources from national ownership. Now that the Chinese have crossed the rubicon on the basic issue of access to materials on open markets, what is really the point of pretending that they are genuinely interested in free trade? Do we still want to pretend that they are interested in moving towards western liberalism. As much as Republicans called liberals Chamberlins on other issues, conservatives still ignoring the growing failure of free trade with the east are really, fundamentally, the genuine Chamberlins of our day. I hope they choke on their Walmart stock.

    --
    This is my sig.
  4. Rare Earths Not Necessarily Rare by CodeBuster · · Score: 5, Informative

    This has been discussed here on Slashdot before, but rare earths are not as difficult to mine and produce as the term "rare" implies; they are rare only in a relative sense compared to other common elements of the Earth's crust. They are mostly not rare on the same order as gold or platinum group metals, although there are exceptions. There are plenty of sources for most of these elements in the continental United States and other nations outside of China; it just costs a certain amount of money to mine and refine them. If China chokes off supplies from their own mines and processors then it will make those same sorts of mines and processors cost-competitive again here in the United States and elsewhere in the world. This really isn't that big of a deal.

    1. Re:Rare Earths Not Necessarily Rare by Trepidity · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yeah, the current Chinese monopoly on current production for many of the elements is just because they've undercut all other producers, so rare earths are too cheap to be worth mining outside of China. There was quite a lot of rare-earth mining in the U.S. in the 1980s and 90s, and many of those mines are still waiting to be restarted when the price gets high enough to be worth it. Here's a timeline from the largest U.S. miner (currently not mining, but sitting around processing some existing stocks of ore).

  5. Re:Obviously by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I always have to wonder at what point the "if you owe the bank $10,000 you have a problem, if you owe the bank $10,000,000 they have a problem" principle kicks in...

    The willingness of China to send actual goods(at the cost of deferring domestic consumption) in exchange for little green US treasury gift cards as some sort of neo-mercantilist scheme is rather convenient.

  6. More detail on this topic. by GuyFawkes · · Score: 5, Informative
    --
    http://slashdot.org/~GuyFawkes/journal
  7. Re:Well if that's not a case for invasion by PatDev · · Score: 5, Informative

    Umm, the Chinese did not cut off the supply of Opium. They cut off the demand for opium. The British were illegally smuggling opium from India into China, then the Chinese enforced their laws, leading to war.

  8. Dupe by olsmeister · · Score: 4, Funny

    This was discussed previously on http://science.slashdot.org/story/09/09/08/2119201/China-Considering-Cuts-In-Rare-Earth-Metal-Exports

    If you hurry up and copy/paste a few comments from there, you may be able to get a cheap +5 Informative. :)

  9. Re:Japan had better mend relations quickly... by konekoniku · · Score: 4, Informative

    Or more likely, Japan will just shift its neodymium orders to mines in the US, Australia, Brazil, and elsewhere, as these will increase their output when China drives up global prices by restricting her exports. Rare earth metals are only relatively rare -- we're not nearly about to run out of the things, and China isn't the only country with significant total reserves. At any rate, Japan doesn't owe China war reparations anymore anyway: Mao Zedong waived all reparations as part of the price for buying Japan's diplomatic recognition in 1972.

  10. Illusion by stabiesoft · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The global economy is an illusion. China controls its exchange rate. If they let it float, chinese products would double
    triple or maybe even 10X in price almost overnight. China controls imports thru numerous techniques (as do we and everyone else).
    They just recently clamped down on even what web sites will be visible. China is a tightly controlled economy which plans on being number 1 in 5 to 10 years. They think long term and are willing to abuse its citizens in the process. My big worry is once they get those subs they are bulding up & running, the west is screwed. They will now be able to offer the one "product" that up until now, only we could offer. Security. Imagine if you are the Arab nations with all that oil and you can either trade with the US and collect "dollars in an account" and a guarantee of protection or you can get "computers, cars, boats, appliances, furniture, pillows, blankets, screws, bolts, steel, aluminum, pipe, tools, and pretty much anything you want" AND protection from the chinese, who would you sell your oil to? For that matter, ANY raw material producing country will do biz with the chinese, not us. China has played the capitalists over the past couple of decades very well.

  11. Re:not so green, huh? by Penguinisto · · Score: 4, Insightful

    a return to subsistence-style living and community-driven societies

    We have over 6bn people on this planet. If we all went back to subsistence farming, 3/4 or the world will begin to starve in very short order. Starving people tend to do weird things, like start wars, skirmishes, riots and things like that - over suddenly scarce resources (oh like, I dunno... food supplies , arable land, things like that?)

    ...with countries like Poland, who have just absolutely amazing self-reliant and vibrant communities...

    ...and a low enough population density to pull it off. I'm not seeing how Mumbai, Los Angeles or Tokyo can do this with any success, unless we offload the extra people - who still have to live somewhere. I also suspect that a suddenly starving German population would happily 'liberate' Poland's food production for their own use - and guess who would have the bigger guns and more desperate incentive with which to do it?

    It's not a question of being lazy - it's a simple question of logistics that don't fit the paradigm, no matter how utopian and pretty it seems on the surface. There's also the the fact that a subsistence population tends to have astronomically higher birthrates, which tends to increase the pressures instead of alleviating them (but then with the return of disease and a higher child mortality rate, coupled with a lower life expectancy, who knows?)

    ...are you ready for that change...

    I suggest extra ammunition and a rather large stockpile of MRE's until the excess population either dies of starvation or kills each other off. Defensible modifications to your house would help as well. May want to move to a sparsely-populated area as well and ride it out there.

    -OR-

    I suggest that you've spent way too many evenings watching Life After People re-runs, and fantasizing about some sort of post-armageddon future where you get to re-populate a shattered Earth with a gaggle of cute chicks who look to you as some sort of leader... or similar. May not want to close on that farmhouse in Idaho just yet, though.

    It is my contention that:

    1) The whole "Peak Oil" thing is somewhat of a sham, given that technology is emerging beyond a dependence on petroleum (we should be there completely within a couple of decades under normal market conditions, and if oil does start to become scarce, I'm certain that we'll get there even sooner due to simple market pressures). That said, it does have its uses in getting people to move to cleaner tech sooner (and no, you don't necessarily need Chinese rare earth metals to do it - see also hydroelectricity, monocrystal photovoltaics, etc).

    2) China isn't the one and only repository of rare earth metals on this planet - if sufficiently motivated, I suspect that other sources will be found and/or synthesized if need be. Also, there are alternate means of creating clean tech w/o using rare metals to do it - it's all a question of economics and need.

    3) People have been constructing and selling apocalyptic vision ever since St. John wrote his version on the Isle of Patmos. May not want to hold your breath just yet.

    --
    Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
  12. ratios by zogger · · Score: 4, Interesting

    And how much of that stuff is dependent today on Chinese supply of components? And how much is stagnating in the west, and just being shifted to China? How much is "assembled here" as opposed to really "made here"? And what have the trends been? That's the main point and is related to the entire topic.

    Here's one example from your list, Caterpillar, two articles that should to to show what I am talking about

    http://www.chinasourcingnews.com/2008/08/29/12503-caterpiller-expands-its-global-business-model-in-china/

    http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/CG24504.htm

    And you can go back and look, or remember, Cat was one of the primary lobbyest forces to restrict imported steel tariffs. Using them as an example of "all made in merika!" is just false. They use a lot of foreign sourced, and are gradually shifting production eastward, just like every other manufacturing industry has been doing. Of course not all the way yet, but this is the trend, and thousands and thousands of abandoned factories in the US prove this.

    When I was a kid, and the US was the largest creditor nation, we really *did* have a lot of "all made here" things, heck, most everything was. As manufacturing keeps getting outright offshored or has become dependent on imported components so all there is is the last stage assembly, we have gradually replaced produced wealth from the "vertical stack" manufacturing model we used to have with *debt*, national and private, and running trade deficits, and have been sneaking up on economic collapse. This economic situation has exactly paralleled the shift in manufacturing.

    Manufacturing is the big kahuna on producing wealth. You stop doing it, you start to go downhill. You increase doing it, you prosper. The more that is vertically integrated within your own area, the more those currency units get spent and respent and respent where they improve the over all local economy. The more you ship them out, the more the local economy goes sour and the more in debt you go.

    There is going to come up a point where the manufacturing nations like china will no longer be interested in IOUs and will only want to do business with such areas as provide them with real wealth, the raw resources and energythey need, for their products (a few billion people, a good market size), and that combined with their own internal markets will be *large enough* for them to just say "thanks, but don't really need ya anymore as customers old western nations, see ya!" to the nations that previously made stuff..like the US.

    Now I know this doesn't matter to the top 1%, they are globalists and can just move, they don't care. The rest of the people though..

    This is the deal, is this economy, the "official" numbers, a reflection of the good deal for wall street, their economy, or of main street? Which is more important, making sure the top 1% keep getting richer, or trying to maintain a better balance, especially within your own middle class?

  13. Re:not so green, huh? by Anonymous+Bullard · · Score: 4, Informative

    The Chinese "communist" dictatorship - the most murderous in human history - has obviously a long list of crimes to their "credit" (modern corporate speak), but in this context it might also be relevant to mention that part of that regime's near total control over the rare earth elements is due to China's invasion and ongoing genocidal occupation of Tibet since 1950.

    Mao Zedong may have "only" wanted pre-one-child-policy era lebensraum for the Chinese masses (from 1950 to 1970 the Chinese population doubled from 500 million to 1 billion), geopolitical and military control over the Central Asian highlands of Tibet and incomprehensible (in communist terms anyway) validation of China's fairytale-like feudal imperial claims over the absolutely non-Chinese Tibetan people when he sent his Communist Party's then-idle wardogs to invade and occupy Tibet, but it turned out that the subsequent Chinese national-socialist (read: Chinazi) leaders and their affiliated business "princelings" have found it incredibly lucrative to ransack Tibet of its natural resources.

    Nearly all historically invaluable precious metal artifacts and statues were melted for Mao's foreign currency purchases (while the invaluable Buddhist scriptures and almost all of the more than 6000 monasteries were simply burned down or bombed. Tibet's forests have been hacked down and shipped off to China (leaving only erosion behind). Uranium, gas and oil are extracted by Party-affiliated cronies and the Chinese regime only leaving behind severe pollution. All profitable industrial metals, including the rare earth metals, are being excavated while protesting native Tibetans get the old Gestapo treatment. Et cetera and et cetera.

    Did I mention that the Chinese dictatorship is hard at work damming and diverting the major Asian rivers originating in Tibet and providing lifeline to over a billion South-Asians (incl. India) downstream, in order to generate electric power and to provide water for the occupying Chinese state and the newly settled Chinese instead? United Nations' conventions be damned in every case.

    So what if the Chinese regime now wants to restrict the supply of crucial industrial metals? Don't say you didn't see it coming. Consider sending a distress signal to your democratic representative, that is if the "western" corporations don't already have him or her in their pocket.

    The Western and democratic peoples need to either shut up and live with the consequences, or do something before it's too late for all of us.

    --

    Should invading one's peaceful neighbours be opposed, or rewarded with trade deals?