CES Vendors Kicked Out of Hotels For Showcasing Wares in Room

An anonymous reader writes to mention that a number of companies attempting to stretch their dollars by showing their new gear in hotel suites around Vegas during CES were kicked out of the rooms they paid for by CES organizers and hotel staff. According to sources as many as 30 small electronics companies may have been kicked out of The Venetian and The Palazzo on Thursday. One anonymous vendor claims they were coerced into paying $10,000 to the CEA lest they be kicked out of their (paid for) suite and barred from exhibiting or meeting with clients. 'States our source, "I asked the hotel staff if there were any limitations for using the suite. They said the only limitations were how many people were at our parties. They didn't say there were any limitations on displaying product. We set up our product on the first day. Then on Wednesday a cleaning person came in and reported what they saw to management. From there we got kicked out on Thursday."'

Comments

And this is news why?

[suso]

I mean I'm not a show vendor and I even know that doing such things is not ok with hotel management.

Re:And this is news why?

[eldavojohn]

I mean I'm not a show vendor and I even know that doing such things is not ok with hotel management.

A lot of the vendors claim they had informal conversations with management who said it was okay:

More importantly, the vendor's chief representative reports that they had contacted the hotel management before the show and asked if there were any limitations on showing product in the suites. The hotel management at The Venetian reportedly said there were not.

But then someone at the hotel said:

A security guard at The Venetian confirmed these reports further, saying he had been involved with "solving" a "lot of problems" at CES. When we inquired what these "problems" were, he stated, "The problems aren't with CES itself, but with people who didn't go through the proper channels to display the products and hold their business meetings."

So there's your news, it's a he said/he said sort of thing at this point unless you can find the rules to CES that explicitly address this. You know, it could be spun one way saying that the hotel management knew it wasn't going to fly but wanted the moneys and so they lied and kicked them out only after they had the money in their pocket. Should have got it in writing if that was the case. The other way to spin it is that these guys did more than they asked was okay and that bothered management.

I particularly enjoyed this statement:

If the vendors can't pay, they can't pay. One smaller company was already kicked out we witnessed today, likely more have been or will be as well. Is this really good for CES, an industry flagbearer? And is it really good for the Las Vegas economy, so dependent on the show?

It's pretty obvious to me that if you're paying a premium for showing your product at that show, you don't want 2 bit operations setting up in the hotel rooms above you trying to swindle your viewers up to their private quarters. You're there for those people to see your flashy setup. That's why you pay, isn't it? Management and CES could very well have been protecting the interests and quality of the show. Also, I don't think if CES moved it would hurt Vegas all that much. They have some other industries around there that do pretty well despite recessions or any sort of economic downturn.

And even if it is, why wasn't the CEA and hotel management more clear about restrictions on exhibits and meetings in Las Vegas hotels this week?

Agreed, brace yourself for a forty page contract written in legal speak to be signed next year before your exhibit and hotel room is inspected and okayed for entrance into the hotel and showroom floor.

Re:And this is news why?

[ktappe]

I mean I'm not a show vendor and I even know that doing such things is not ok with hotel management.

What part of the summary "I asked the hotel staff if there were any limitations for using the suite. They said the only limitations were how many people were at our parties. They didn't say there were any limitations on displaying product" was unclear? It was OK with hotel management.

There is no way anyone should have modded you up and I'm publicly asking people to mod you down.

Re:And this is news why?

[iamhassi]

"I mean I'm not a show vendor and I even know that doing such things is not ok with hotel management."

you didn't RTFA: "the vendor's chief representative reports that they had contacted the hotel management before the show and asked if there were any limitations on showing product in the suites. The hotel management at The Venetian reportedly said there were not.... "I asked the hotel staff if there were any limitations for using the suite. They said the only limitations were how many people were at our parties. ""

I think the real lesson here is not to stay at The Venetian. If I want to get a hotel, then invite a few people over to view a new laptop, what business is that of CES? I know CES doesn't want to lose money, but really these small businesses are just moving out of the way for the big guys to get more booths. Intel isn't going to bring people back to a hotel room, and the more companies you have in Las Vegas that week the bigger CES will be, whether they're in their room or on the floor.

Re:And this is news why?

[XPeter]

It's pretty obvious to me that if you're paying a premium for showing your product at that show, you don't want 2 bit operations setting up in the hotel rooms above you trying to swindle your viewers up to their private quarters. You're there for those people to see your flashy setup. That's why you pay, isn't it? Management and CES could very well have been protecting the interests and quality of the show. Also, I don't think if CES moved it would hurt Vegas all that much. They have some other industries around there that do pretty well despite recessions or any sort of economic downturn.

You sir, are an idiot.

The small companies (such as Zalman) that were evicted from the hotels, paid for the room in full without signing any unique agreements. Unless the parties violated the following conditions set forth by many hotels, then they had no right to be kicked out.

Standards:

* Disorderly conduct
* Nonpayment
* Using the premises for an unlawful purpose or act
* Bringing property onto the premises that may be dangerous to others
* Failing to register as a guest
* Using FALSE PRETENSES to obtain accommodations
* Being a minor unaccompanied by an adult registered guest
* Violating federal, state, or local hotel laws or regulations
* Violating a conspicuously posted hotel or motel rule
* Failing to vacate a room at the agreed checkout time

Vegas is STARVING, akin to what Dubai just endured...They need everything they can get. CEA handed the town a nice lump sum, and with that they became the new sheriff in town (obviously abusing their powers).

Re:And this is news why?

[DragonWriter]

What part of the summary "I asked the hotel staff if there were any limitations for using the suite. They said the only limitations were how many people were at our parties. They didn't say there were any limitations on displaying product" was unclear?

Its not unclear.

What it is not is confirmed by any source who doesn't have a vested interested in presenting things in a particular light.

There is a difference between a claim and a fact.

Re:And this is news why?

[iamhassi]

"Intel isn't going to bring people back to a hotel room, and the more companies you have in Las Vegas that week the bigger CES will be, whether they're in their room or on the floor."

Also once these small time players become larger companies thanks to hotel rooms at CES, do you think they're going to want to associate themselves with the small time players peddling wares out of a hotel room? This is like selling TVs off the back of a truck, if you become successful eventually you'll want to get your own store, and eventually these companies will move out of their rooms and down to CES floor.

If you don't do this, these smaller companies might band together and get one hotel for themselves that week and do their own thing. Sure 10 grand ain't much to a Vegas hotel, but you get several dozen 10 grands together and some of the smaller hotels might take notice.

Re:And this is news why?

[aaandre]

What we see here is the overreaching arrogance of an organization blinded by the belief that they "own" something that can't be owned: others' right to share their products with an audience. Ironically, the show exists precisely because of all these big and little companies make an effort to show up, pay up, and display their products to an audience.

Now, the middlemen suddenly believe that they own the process of doing so, and not just the real estate of the showfloor.

It is crucial how the bullied companies react to this insanity. Ideally, big headlines revealing the evilness and stupidity of CES management, and appropriate lawsuits will provide CES with enough incentive to refrain from bullying their own (potential) clients in the future.

I can see how scared CES may be of the possibility of a parallel tech expo which they can not monetize on. Wouldn't that be a great idea? Lower participation threshold, more indie companies, diversity, and the possibility of fun with fewer constipated uptight suits in the room.

Re:And this is news why?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm pretty sure that part of the agreement is that you use a suite for either living or small parties - not for such business purposes as "displaying and demoing products" (for which the hotels typically have business space such as meeting rooms and ballrooms). Using the living space for purposes like this increases the foot / elevator traffic above what it is designed for and should indeed be prohibited.

Re:And this is news why?

[plague3106]

Secondly, a hotel can refuse service to anyone, at anytime, for any reason.

No, it can't. There are quite a few limitations, race being one of them. Its certainly not anything goes.

If you don't like the hotels exercising their private property rights, you're free to not patronize The Palazzo or The Venetian.

Except that the people in question already paid for the room, so clearly they were fine with them staying there. The problem is that this is all after the fact.

Furthermore, the hotel reserves the right to determine what constitutes "disorderly conduct" or using "false pretenses" to obtain accommodation.

Again, no it doesn't. Those words describe crimes, which are not at the hotels discrimination, they are at the police's.

Renting out a suite is an obvious attempt to deprive CEA of the money they're asking for a booth.

No other business can use the hotel when CES is there? Interesting assertion. Also, note that the hotel said the presentions were fine and dandy.. oh, and this isn't new, CES was apparently fine with it in previous years. So somehow the whole "wahh! they're depriving me of money!" doesn't hold.

Thirdly, if you think The Palazzo or The Venetian are starving, think again. Maybe you don't have the money to stay there, but there are plenty of rich people with money to burn. I recently read an article in the Miami Herald about how, for example, super-luxury 180-360 day cruises around the world (starting at $100,000 and rising to $500,000 and up) aren't hurting one bit, despite the economy.

The rest of the surrounding businesses, which would benefit by increased numbers of people in Vegas, I'm sure would like these people to stay.

Oh, and $370 / night isn't exactly "super-luxury."

Re:And this is news why?

[D Ninja]

WTF? They are talking and conducting business, Not showering with each other!

In Vegas, that could very well be the same thing...

(Now the question is, do I get modded Insightful or Funny for the above statement.)

Re:And this is news why?

[Dahamma]

None of this should make any difference to an unrelated contract between a hotel and a vendor.

In the end, you know what this is? Capitalism. If the CEA wants to keep vendors from fleeing to cheaper venues, do you know what they need to do? LOWER THEIR PRICES.

Last I heard it was at least $40 per sq ft to rent floor space - that's $20,000 for just 500sq ft for 4 days. And that doesn't include the thousands more for any furniture, thousands for often crappy Internet access, overpaid labor to do any setup, or even the $3 per bottle of water (and woe to anyone who tries to bring their own!)

And have you ever been in their "meeting rooms"? A confusing sea of temporary walls that look like they are about to fall down, with minimal amenities. Why should a company be forced to have private meetings there (and pay even more, of course), whether they are renting booth space or not?

Re:And this is news why?

[AndersOSU]

I'm sorry, how do you rectify this, "Gross gaming revenue — down 18 percent" with your statement that revenues are up? That's not a slow in growth, that's a decrease.

That and Vegas has one of the most depressed real estate markets in the country.

That is positively asinine.

[jcr]

Vendors have been showing their products in hotel hospitality suites for decades. I've never been to any trade show yet where this wasn't the case. I don't know what the hell CES management is thinking if they consider this any kind of a problem.

-jcr

Re:That is positively asinine.

[Blakey Rat]

They paid for the rooms, same as everybody else. The hotel had no objections to what they were doing...

Sure, the timing means that they were taking advantage of the marketing for CES, but that's not against the law. (Hell, it's an old long-standing tradition, if anything.)

Don't make excuses for this asshole move.

Re:That is positively asinine.

[wramsdel]

You're damn straight, and there's nothing wrong with it. When 40-50 of your customers are in one place at the same time, you'd be an absolute fool not to go there and meet with them. It's the most bang for the buck you'll get all year. How far, exactly, do you need to be from the show floor before you're not trying to "get a free ride"? If I'm at CES and a buddy of mine's at CES, and we get together and talk business somewhere on the strip, are we trying to "get a free ride" because we're not buying the CEA's beer? Where's that line drawn?

Re:That is positively asinine.

[mrisaacs]

Ok let's get it straight.

CES allows or at least turns a blind eye to vendors who have rented space on the floor and also show products in their suites, or there might be restrictions on when the suites are used, etc.

The hotel staff who told the vendors who did not have floor space, that here were no restrictions probably did not know the hotels had a contractual agreement with CES, specifically not to allow suites to be used by vendors who did not have floor space.

There's a simple reason for this. CES spends a lot of money to rent facilities, guarantee occupancy and advertise the event. Some portion of the fee$ paid by the vendors who rent floor space goes to this.

The vendors who don't rent floor space are capitalizing on the attendees, who are their because of the efforts of CES and those vendors who rented floor space. Before anyone makes the analogy - this is NOT akin to filesharing or the alledged piracy of music or video. This is more akin to pirating someones' signal and replacing their content with your own.

The suite only vendors are not only not paying CES for their services, they are reducing the amount of face time for the vendors who are paying for those services. If they make a sale - it really is potentially at the cost of someone else who paid to show at the conference.

The agreements with the hotels are CES' insurance that attendees only view the wares of those who have paid to be at the conference, for the duration of the conference. It costs them money (or occupancy guarantees/penalties) to get those agreements..

Re:That is positively asinine.

[negRo_slim]

I call BS on the whole post. Sounds like a Penthouse Forum letter more than anything.

Re:That is positively asinine.

[mmeister]

Um, not a free ride. If you rented a suite during CES, especially close to any of the venues, I can guarantee you paid out the ass for it.
Free ride? No way.

Now, CES a-holes didn't get their pound of flesh, but it isn't theirs to take.

Re:That is positively asinine.

[mmeister]

Obviously you've never attended a trade show.

There is nothing that says that Vendors have to register as vendors.

These guys are not coming up to random people saying "hey, you wanna see something cool.. just follow me." No, they may arrange a meeting at a later time, but usually with press folks they already have a relationship with and with potential business partners.

CES doesn't have a lock on what you can do on the floor as a customer. You don't sign a contract saying you will only do business with vendors that have booths to get a customer pass. And CES certainly doesn't have a right to kick you out of your hotel, period.

Re:That is positively asinine.

[wramsdel]

Everything you've said is true. You've also made largely ethical arguments, and ethics in business is dead. Yes, the parasites in the suites are costing the big guys money and face time. The big guys are also doing everything within their power to put the little guys at a competitive disadvantage. That's how business is done. That's not a justification, it's not an excuse, it's a statement of fact. The companies exhibiting in suites are, at worst, in breach of contract with the hotel, and it's quite likely that that breach is with the tacit consent of the hotel. You cannot convince me that an entity which spends tens of millions of dollars deploying surveillance hardware to catch people cheating or counting cards doesn't know exactly what's happening in each and every one of their rooms and suites. This time, the CEA got pissed and told the hotels to play ball, and they did. Individuals go to Vegas to gamble, it's not surprising that companies would do the same.

Re:That is positively asinine.

[tonyreadsnews]

The hotel staff who told the vendors who did not have floor space, that here were no restrictions probably did not know the hotels had a contractual agreement with CES, specifically not to allow suites to be used by vendors who did not have floor space.

this should have been in any terms agreed to for renting the room, and would need to be done ahead of time. What if someone was showing product in their room that had nothing to do with CES? Also CES should have described this as a condition for attending the show (likely the vendors at least had tickets to go in so they could corral people back to their room).

This is more akin to pirating someones' signal and replacing their content with your own.

Not really, the 'other signal' was still there, its just the 'listener' now has more choice. I would liken it more to passing out CD's to people at a concert and/or near a concert for similar (but original) music.

In these cases, nothing the vendors did was illegal (nor CEA), the hotels had to breach their contracts (CEA contract and contract to rent the room to the vendor) and choose to breach the one that had less money at stake.

next year the vendors should hang the Do Not Disturb sign. Not that I'd want anyone I wasn't watching in the room with prototypes and potential business secrets in their anyways.

Re:That is positively asinine.

[ShakaUVM]

>>The vendors who don't rent floor space are capitalizing on the attendees, who are their because of the efforts of CES and those vendors who rented floor space. Before anyone makes the analogy - this is NOT akin to filesharing or the alledged piracy of music or video. This is more akin to pirating someones' signal and replacing their content with your own.

That's a horrible analogy, even for Slashdot.

Everything these guys were doing complied with the law, and the pre-stated hotel policies (and longstanding tradition - NDA-only products are usually ONLY shown in hotel rooms).

Or as Shakespeare would say, Who am I to CES, or CES to me? Fucking cry me a river that they are capitalizing on an event. Are you going to complain that restaurants in the area are having increased sales as well?

Re:That is positively asinine.

[Dravik]

A vendor who rents a suite is paying for floor space. It just happens to be floor space in the suite. Could you explore this free-riding concept a little bit more. If I put a gas station across the street from a wal-mart, does that mean I owe wal-mart money for free-riding on their traffic volume? If a vendor rents a suite in the hotel next to CES are they still free riding? How about a block away? A mile? I can understand that the event organizer is upset, and they may have an exclusivity deal with the hotel. If the hotel failed to include additional restrictions into their suite rental contracts then CES has a legitimate complaint against the hotel. The vendors who got kicked out by the hotels also have a legitimate complaint against the hotel since they complied with the standard hotel usage agreements(I'm assuming the hotel failed to modify their rental agreements) and were kicked out anyway. At a minimum the vendors deserve a refund for the unused time they paid for.

Re:That is positively asinine.

[TheRaven64]

For a concrete example, look at AMD. Every year at IDF, they book a suite and hold some kind of press event for all of the journalists who are covering Intel's show. The entire point of it is to steal some of the publicity from the show's organiser (Intel). If Intel could get AMD kicked out of their hotel, I bet that they would absolutely love to...

Tightening up...

[meerling]

I guess they really want to tighten up their grasp at other companies money.

I've always heard about these types of 'parties' from all the shows, especially CES and EEE.
Even Microsoft and Sony (among many others) do these for some stuff.
The smaller vendors have utterly relied on being able to do this.
Having a small booth in a 'busy' place like that can make it really hard to do a presentation of your product, not to mention restricting access when you want to keep it limited.
Seems a bit odd (or greedy) for them to start cracking down on it now.

Re:Tightening up...

[silent_artichoke]

I guess they really want to tighten up their grasp at other companies money.

The more they do that, the more star systems will slip through their fingers.

Pretty disgusting

[HEbGb]

The CEA can institute whatever rules it wants on its own show property, but it has no business or right to interfere with anything (ahem) going on in local Las Vegas hotel rooms.

Similarly, unless the hotel informed them of some restriction, and as long as they abided by all of their usual rules, they have no basis for throwing them out, at all. I hope these companies fight this. At the very least, there's remedy in small-claims action. And obviously they should dispute any credit card charges from the hotel.

They're probably desperate from the declining numbers, and revenue, and are in financial trouble.

Sounds pretty idiotic to me

[khallow]

CEA probably could have saved a lot of grief by warning these vendors ahead of time that it was going to do this sort of thing. Sure a number of the vendors would have worked around the rules, but that'll happen next year despite the crackdown. The vendors will just be a bit more clever.

Further, this just reeks of bad communication and incompetent handling by CEA and the respective hotels. If I were involved with the decision, I'd be worried about breech of contract suits from the affected vendor firms. Just from my extremely crude reading of the article, this doesn't sound like CEA or some of the hotels did due diligence in upholding their side of the exhibition contracts.

Finally, these sorts of antics show up when an organization is tight on money and starts ignoring long term costs and harm. One wonders if the CEA will go bankrupt in a few years.

Re:Sounds pretty idiotic to me

[GooberToo]

Please place my comment back into original context - which was, "...next time..."

In FreeMarket America...

[fantomas]

... no competition is allowed ;-)

Re:In FreeMarket America...

[aicrules]

On private property, he who owns the private property has sole discretion over what can and cannot be done on that property within the realms of legal activities. Obviously illegal activities are not allowed with or without the owner's discretion.

Re:In FreeMarket America...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet another retard who doesn't understand the concept of the free market but feels no shame in his ignorance and will continue to make all kinds of assumptions.

These are the people we normally laugh at for being fools but I guess when you have all kinds of bias instead of a working model that's what you'll get.

Almost certainly the hotel really had restrictions

[PatMcGee]

I've seen this happen with Siggraph. The contract that Siggraph had with the hotels said that no vendor suites would be allowed for display of products or meetings with actual or prospective customers without explicit written permission from Siggraph management. All vendor suites had to be booked through Siggraph.

In, I think 1994, several vendors had such suites and publicized them at the exhibition. Siggraph management charged the hotel the standard suite fee for each of those vendor suites. Collected it too. I don't know if the hotels managed to get it back from the vendors or not.

Always tip the cleaning staff!

[castironpigeon]

I'm guessing they got more for turning the guests in than they would have for cleaning the rooms for a couple of days.

Re:So...

[XPeter]

Your saying that it's acceptable for a cooperation to endorse monopolistic business practices?

Lets say I'm going to open a brand new WalMart here in my town, and I just spent a large wad of cash advertising for it. Does the mom n pop grocery shop across the way not have the right to operate? I think not.

When signing up for the hotel, companies such as Zalman ASKED the hotels if there were any pretenses to having a gallery in their rooms, and the hotels answered no. The problem here is that the CEA became flustered and used their $$$ to kick out mom n' pop.

It's called being anti-competitive.

You've hit the nail on the head

[stomv]

Using the premises for an unlawful purpose or act

My bet is that Las Vegas zoning code specifically restricts commercial activity from hotel rooms themselves. I've never looked at the Las Vegas zoning code, but I have looked at the codes in my area of the country -- and hotels are only allowed to have certain activities in certain areas of the hotel.

Commercial activity in the rooms themselves is verboten in every code I've seen (about a dozen), although again, I've never looked at the Las Vegas zoning code (or any other Las Vegas laws that might or might not apply, including laws on lodging houses of various kinds, health codes, etc).

Re:You've hit the nail on the head

[mmeister]

As I understand it, these were Suites. Suites as in designed to have guests, business guests.

I know lots and LOTS of business folks that rent suites to conduct business in all the time. I know other trade shows do this all the time as well, it is part of the trade show mechanism. This is typical short term thinking. If the meetings in suites prove successful, those same companies will hopefully grow big enough to need a booth next year.

Sorry, this looks like nothing more than a CES shakedown. I would definitely question the legality of CES being able to kick you out of a hotel suite for having business meetings. I could maybe understand it if you had a standard room, but if you got a suite, then IMHO, the hotel is completely in the wrong and caved to CES threatening them.

Both parties should be taken to court.

Mod Parent 5, Informative

[mpapet]

This has been common business practice for a really long time at most trade shows I went to in Vegas in the 90's.

The trade show producer doesn't offer a way for smaller companies to get into most shows. Even if they did, a good idea would be knocked off in months in most cases.

Smaller vendors don't have the budget for a booth and meet their customers anyway they can. It's hard to blame them.

Come on - it's Vegas.

[Xacid]

Is anyone REALLY surprised? This is the place that embraces the exploitation of others. If you don't want to get shaken down then don't go to Vegas. I sure as hell don't.

Re:Announcing competitive event for 2011

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah.... but who wants to go to Wyoming? At least when CES has slow years your still in vegas.

This could have been avoided

[Anonymous Coward]

This is why I always put up those little "Do not disturb" Signs on my room
Seriously, could have prevented the whole deal.