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City of Heroes Sr. Designer Talks Architect System
Kheldon writes "The MMO Gamer sits down with Joe Morrissey, a Senior Designer at Paragon Studios, to discuss the inspiration behind, and current implementation of, the Architect user-generated content system in City of Heroes. Quoting: 'Really for me, wanting tools so the rest of the team could actually come up with content was the idea. Because we have a lot of guys on the team that are hardcore players, they play the game all the time. Then they come to me like, "I’ve got this idea for this story, we should really do this arc with this guy!" And I’m like, "That’s great. I haven’t got time to do it. I’ve got plenty of other story arcs to work on." But, if we made the tools easy enough, then they could actually come up with the arcs, and we can put them out. Then somewhere along that road it dawned on me: Why stop with the rest of the team?'"
...except for every single possible way in which it could vaguely resemble something even a little bit like Second Life. You're an idiot.
...and then I was like, "I know, we'll create a program that lets the players create their own content!" and I was like, "We could call it, I dunno..." And then, I had this really original idea, "A level editor!" I announced. And then, I played DOOM, and realized that level editors have been around since the dawn of modern gaming! So then a little devil appeared on my shoulder shaped like the microsoft logo that said, "Hurry! Patent it! And claim originality!"
http://www.beanleafpress.com
However it's not like Second Life. There are two important differences:
1) There is plenty of professional content. The game has loads of content designed by Cryptic's team. In fact, when it was launched, that is all it was. So you aren't running around in an amateur user generated world, that is just something you can play around with if you like.
2) It's an actual game. Second Life had no real point, it was just a place for a bunch of people to get around and act like jackasses. Like IRC, but with giant walking penises and such. City of Heroes is a videogame, there's fun stuff to do, if you like the super hero thing.
Also, user generated content can be really good in some cases. Have a look at Fallout 3 Nexus or the like, there are some amazing user made mods for some games. The main problem comes down to filtering it, because there'll be a lot of crap mixed in.
Second Life's failing was no filters, no professional content and no point overall.
How many variations of go to X and kill/collect Y of Z are there, I wonder? Granted, I remember a long time ago playing user created campaigns in NWN, and they weren't half bad, but even professional designers seem to have difficulty putting together compelling mssions in MMOs... color me skeptical.
I used to play City of Heroes like a die hard fan, Now its just a few times a year.
I stopped playing b/c there is only one thing to do in COH, and thats combat, no other form of content in the game, at least none that is actually, entertaining. I play Eve Online now for content, much better.
But COH isn't bad if you like combat games, the Architect system is actually, one of a kind, I do not know of any other MMO where you can design your own missions, and let others play them. the system is very nice, and effective. The only problem is, the Devs, within a week of the system going live, they realized that players were smart, some smarter then them. Players would use the Architect system to create missions that were nothing but easy progression, essentially, a developer designed power level tool. Once the devs realized that this mess let players play their way, and not the Devs way, they nerfed the hell out of the Architect, reward pools, gained experience, credits, all of it limited.
When i do play, I do not run the Architect anymore, It was great in its first month, but If i want to play to advance there is no point. But if i want to play different stories, and create my own, or see a wide veirity of other players creative ability, then yes, the Architect is incredibly great.
In the (admittedly short .. only got around level 30) time I played CoH, the biggest thing that impressed me was the writing. Not that it was super great literature or anything, but I was coming back each day to do quests not to get experience or items, but to see what happened next. That's a good sign. I never got very much into the AE stuff, but the concept was great. Some people complained about balanced, but really... so what? Personally I play games to have fun, not balance formulas.
I compare this to the newer Champions Online. Great hopes ... costume customization was a bit better, more powers, etc. But boy does Champions fail hard on everything else. Lots of flavor text is self-referential tongue-in-cheek commentary felt like the programmers put stuff in as a placeholder and they never bothered to hire writers to fix it. The stories are super generic and feel committee-written, the settings are just about as generic as you can come up with, and ... there's just nothing to come back for. WoW has better writing and content. CO just doesn't take itself seriously, and the only real reason to play is to get exp to get to the next level, and as soon as you have the powers you want, suddenly there's no reason to keep playing. Making hero concepts is the only interesting thing.
This brings us back around to CoH's AE. The ability to make your own content plays especially well with super heroes---especially player-made concepts---because you can go beyond just a costume and description, and create and play your own entire story. And that is just awesome.
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
I take it the headline is obnoxiously hard to parse* on purpose, right?
(* at least for anyone who's not necessarily familiar with every damn MMO out there)
sic transit gloria mundi
You can take your story arc and... I'm not that interested. Let me slaughter lower level players and give me challenging group content. That's all I need.
When AE went live, it was really crazy and the AE buildings where completely filled with peoples, to the point that entire game zones felt empty. Some peoples were creating missions for the sole purpose of farming, with buff bots following you, preventing the player from taking damage so a group could deal with massive amounts of boss at the same time, yielding enormous amounts of XP. Hell some people went from 0 to 50 without leaving the AE building... and when they were out doing regular missions, did they suck. As soon as there were none of the bubble bots around, they had no tactics and were really poor players... As time passed, those missions starting being removed from the system and gradually lost popularity to the "real missions", with proper story arcs that players spend hours developping testing etc... The best are indeed very good missions, on par with some of the best story arcs of the game... so is AE good, yes. as long as you use it for what it was intended to be. A tool to provide more ontent to the players, not a tool to powerlevel ! And needless to say, the ability to create entirely custom enemy groups is really cool ! CoH ftw !!
If you ever want to know how to destroy an MMO the AE will be the best example of this.
I was a hard core COX player. I have to say I really enjoyed the game. AE killed it.
First you need to know something about how instances are made in CoX. They are cookie cutter dungeons made with the same map layout blocks. So if you have played for more then a month you will know how each corridor is laid out, where monsters spawn.
There are exceptions to some of those dungeons, but very rare. Now they did attempt to improve on this at one point. For example Striga island and Croatoa have really good quests/arcs compared to other content. However apart from the Ritiki warzone redone the instances had not changed at all.
So AE was meant to fix this in that you could create custom content. Except you can't. It is all cookie cutter dungeons. There are some nicely done stories by player content but the instances are all the same. So it gets boring fast.
Add to that AE being easier then the actual rest of the game, meant that everyone was camped out in the AE building while the rest of the city zones were pretty much ghost towns.
At that point I wondered why the heck was I playing the game anymore. The developers had no interest in putting any real new content into the game (except with micro-payments).
All I can say to this is "Ryzom Ring". It allows players to create their own "level" (it's an area you can reach via teleport). The time I tried it you were able to select from a number of area templates and had the ability to place all kinds of objects (i.e. bushes, trees, tents/smaller buildings, fences and whatnot), as well as mobs and NPCs. You were able to define events for spawns, drops and dialoges and all these things for creating quests. No idea how it turned out, but it was great to fool around with.
Actually...
\begin{pedantic}
There were two Neverwinter Nights games --- the recent one which you're familiar w/ (and correct about) --- and the old one, the on-line AD&D multi-player Role-playing game on AOL which used the old ``Gold Box'' engine and back in the days of $4--8/hr. on-line fees was a huge moneymaker for AOL.
Unfortunately, there was never a level editor for AOL's NWN, though there was _Forgotten Realms: Unlimited Adventures_, a re-packaging of the level design tools used by the developers of the Gold Box games which allowed one to create modules for others to play.
\end{pedantic}
William
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
CoH is not the first MMORPG with a level editor.
http://www.ryzom.com/en/ryzom_ring.html
Couple of years old, and the game itself is indeed MMO *and* RPG.
Having played COH extensively up until Mission Architect came out, and having tried CO for the open beta, I gotta say the 2 games are completely different. I realize CO is in its infancy, but its a different style of game. COH feels like a PC MMO and can have considerable depth and detail. Character classes have distinct roles - and quite frankly it still has the best group combat system of any MMO I have ever tried (and thats dozens of them). CO is a console game, it feels shallow, it feels simplistic, roles are extremely poorly designed while seeming flexible and the action never stops. Now, that may be your thing, but CO was complete and utter crap to me and my friends, because it felt like it was designed for the 8-12 yr old console crowd. COH is a mature game with a lot of great content in it.
MA was an obvious mistake: if you let players create their own content, they will use that ability to create easy missions with huge benefits and massive powerleveling will ensue. They will not (typically) use it to create great new content that is clever, literate and challenging - because the majority of players are not that clever or creative. Whats the quote: "Think of how stupid people are on average, now realize that half of them are stupider than that" or something to that effect. I would ignore MA, and just play COH for the developer created content first, then you can check out MA if you want. See the quality first, before playing the crap, so that you see the great potential of the game, not the worst sheise the public can cough up in an attempt to get everything for nothing.
If you haven't played COH its worth downloading the trial and checking it out. I am not a comic book/superhero fan per se, I played it reluctantly at first when my friends and my wife decided to give it a try, and to be honest I was blown away. That feeling continued for more or less 5 years off and on.
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
CO was complete and utter crap to me and my friends, because it felt like it was designed for the 8-12 yr old console crowd. COH is a mature game with a lot of great content in it.
A representative at PAX 2007 told us that they were in fact aiming to make the UI usable on a game console. They may have had to give that up. I have trouble imagining the full range of abilities being used from a controller.
On the other hand, you may be reacting to the fact that CO takes itself a lot less seriously than City of Heroes does. Missions like "How the Westside was won", heroes like Foxbat, Lunchador arena costumes....
But if you're not having fun while playing a game, something is wrong. Play what entertains you.
Eh. The problem with this comparison is that the primary console MMO is FFXI ... probably deeper and more complicated in many respects than many (other) PC MMOs I've played, especially the 800lb gorilla, WoW. CO on the other hand feels like WoW lite ... like someone played a few level 1 WoW missions, then made their entire game based on that without any real variation.
Pretty much.
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
When I played CO, I played it with an XBox controller and it was *quite* playable - I really never used more than 9 "active" (read: requiring a button press) powers, so left trigger and 3 buttons or right trigger and 3 buttons or no trigger and 3 buttons handled all my powers. One button would jump (if no trigger was used), interact with an NPC/object (if left trigger was used), accept (right trigger), or decline (both triggers). The D-Pad would cycle through targets (left) allies (right) follow my target (up) or assist my target (down). Left stick moved me or when pressed in turned my travel power on/off, right stick moved the camera, or when clicked zoomed my camera all the way in/out. That still leaves the top buttons.
It sounds like it'd be a mess, but actually it was pretty much as playable as any other console game, and quite easy to use after about 5 minutes of fussing and configuring.
Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.