Challenge To US Government Over Seized Laptops

angry tapir writes "The policy of random laptop searches and seizures by US government agents at border crossings is under attack again: The American Civil Liberties Union is working with the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers to find lawyers whose laptops or other electronic devices were searched at US points of entry and exit. The groups argue that the practice of suspicionless laptop searches violates fundamental rights of freedom of speech and protection against unreasonable seizures and searches."

Comments

Border crossing and the fourth

[mangu]

Aren't border crossings an exception to the Fourth Amendment, or rather, a circumstance where any search is considered "reasonable" by default?

Re:Border crossing and the fourth

[corbettw]

Historically, that's been true. But the reason for that is to prevent contraband from coming into the country. With the advent of the Internet, anyone can download anything from anywhere. So searching laptops at the border isn't going to have any effect, whatsoever, on the flow of contraband digital items (pirated software, kiddie porn, whatever). It might (and has) nabbed a few individuals, but it certainly hasn't had an appreciable effect on the wider practice of these things.

Given that, is it worth the sacrifice to human rights to keep doing it? That's the question that needs to be answer, IMNSHO.

Attorney Client Privilege

[dreamchaser]

I would imagine that any search of a lawyer's laptop could potentially violate attorney-client privilege. That may be one reason why they are looking for lawyers as plaintiffs. If the searches are voided on attorney's for any reason then the equal protection clause might take effect and void them for others as well.

I'm just randomly speculating and no IANAL.

Re:You don't have those rights at border crossings

[Rakshasa Taisab]

So I'm going to the US for a IT related conference by invitation. Obviously having your laptop with you is 'mandatory', yet can I really afford the risk of losing an expensive computer that pretty much is the center piece of my thesis studies and various programming related activities?

More importantly, how does the US expect to keep its technological lead when visitors have these kinds of worries just entering the country?

Re:Policy document

[SirGeek]

Looks to me like the document says they can choose to search for any reason and they may or may not have to disclose that search to you and even if they disclose that search they may or may not have to let you watch that search.

I do think that this would apply and most people are not aware of it either:

Mincey v. Arizona, 437 U.S. 385 (1978). states:

Any search without a warrant is presumed unreasonable.

The government *does* have the right !!

[bradley13]

The 4th amendment does not apply. As with every other country, the US considers domestic law to only apply when you are inside the country. If you have not yet cleared customs, you are technically not in the country. Therefore, you do not benefit from the protections of domestic law. This may seem like quibbling, but it is how every country controls its borders.

It is not only laptops: many people have also been required to show the photos on their cameras, as well as the contents of other electronic devices.

Whether or not such searches make any sense is another question altogether.

Re:The government *does* have the right !!

[OzoneLad]

The 4th amendment does not apply. As with every other country, the US considers domestic law to only apply when you are inside the country. If you have not yet cleared customs, you are technically not in the country. Therefore, you do not benefit from the protections of domestic law. This may seem like quibbling, but it is how every country controls its borders.

Are you then protected by the domestic laws of the country you're leaving, or have you entered some sort of fairy tale (the bad ones with blood and nightmares) limbo place where you have no rights whatsoever? I wonder what other rights they can ignore under the pretext that you're "not in the country yet".

Re:Even Simpler

[aztracker1]

What about U.S. citizens at the border. What about a Lawyer's or Doctor's rights (or at least the rights of their clients/patients) under confidentiality laws?