Apple Seeks To Ban Nokia Imports To US

Hugh Pickens writes "Cnet reports that the ongoing patent battle between Apple and Nokia has escalated, with Apple moving to block imports of Nokia cell phones to the US by filing a complaint with the International Trade Commission, an independent federal agency that examines issues including unfair trade practices involving patent, trademark, and copyright infringement. In December, Nokia filed its own complaint with the USITC alleging that Apple infringes seven Nokia patents 'in virtually all of its mobile phones, portable music players, and computers' and sought to ban imports of Apple's iPhone, iPod, and MacBook products. Responding to Apple's latest move, Nokia spokesman Mark Durrant told Bloomberg that 'Nokia will study the complaint when it is received and continue to defend itself vigorously. However this does not alter the fact that Apple has failed to agree appropriate terms for using Nokia technology and has been seeking a free ride on Nokia's innovation since it shipped the first iPhone in 2007.' An ITC investigation is a lengthy process, but it's possible that Apple and Nokia might reach some sort of settlement as suits continue to escalate between the two companies."

Comments

Apple Counter files against Nokia not files

[Hungus]

In all fairness, this is a response to Nokia's filing last month to ban Apple imports. So so far it has been:

Nokia sues Apple
Apple counter sues Nokia

Nokia seeks to ban Apple Imports via ITC
Apple responds by seeking to ban Nokia imports via the ITC

info from Bloomberg: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=ao_5HVbD_IRM

Re:Apple Counter files against Nokia not files

[IamTheRealMike]

Well, that's what Apple claim. There are two problems with this.

The first one is, how does Apple know what other companies are required to pay? This article claims the agreements are secret and I see no reason to disbelieve that, it'd be standard for this sort of thing.

The second problem is that Apple have sadly established a track record in the last few years of being flexible with the truth, whereas Nokia have not. For example, covering up issues with Jobs' health and playing cute with the FCC over Google iPhone apps. In constrast the only time I read about Nokia in the news is when they've done something cool, like launching a new product.

Simply put, some companies have more credibility than others, and Apple is on the losing side in this one.

Re:Apple Counter files against Nokia not files

[sopssa]

While I also think Nokia's phones haven't been up to quality in recent years (I switched to HTC and love it), they have a long history in developing phones and the technology behind it. They have spend millions on R&D. They fairly cross license patents with other manufacturers, like every one else does (theres not so many manufacturers anyways), but Apple refuses to do this.

Even if their phones aren't as good as some competitors currently, Nokia is one of the companies that actually deserve to be paid their patent royalties.

While patent laws are on Nokia's side too, they aren't even lowering to patent trolling - they're just asking Apple to behave good and like everyone else on the small industry and cross license their patents and pay the small share like everyone else does (3-4% per phone sale if I remember correctly, and Apple gets the same back if Nokia uses their patents). Is this too much to ask?

Re:Apple Counter files against Nokia not files

[TheRaven64]

Yes, that sums it up quite well. Apple has done absolutely nothing to develop the current standards used for mobile communication, while Nokia is responsible for much of the work that went into the GSM evolution standards. The iPhone is a good implementation, but it is building heavily on the work of others. Compared to other phones, the only thing that is novel is the interface, and you will find papers describing almost all of the interface elements in the iPhone written by people outside Apple in HCI journals and conference proceedings over the last decade - some even by Microsoft Research (which I find particularly amusing since they haven't put them into Wince).

You will find no papers by Apple employees. Apple does not do research. They do product development. There is a big difference: every company in the market benefits from research, while only the funding company benefits from development.

Re:Worthless patents

[mjwx]

which sounds like a trivial thing to patent to begin with. How again are patents really contributing to the general good?

Because patents actually do spur innovation and research. The US patent system is broken, do not assume that patents are useless because people use them wrong. It's like saying a car is useless because some people cant drive properly. Nokia is at the forefront of cellular hardware R&D, they are hardly the patent trolls Apple fanboys are making them out to be.

Re:Worthless patents

[siride]

The idea behind patents is that you will release the knowledge behind your product or design to the public ("patent", being the opposite of "latent" means something along the lines of "out in the open") in exchange for a temporary monopoly during which time you can recoup the costs of development. Taking the risk of developing a new technology is thus incentivized because you can be assured that your product won't be ripped off and sold for cheap, preventing you from making any profit (or just breaking even) off of what could have been a potentially expensive period of R&D beforehand. That's why it makes sense to have patents.

It doesn't make sense to patent trivial things, or have patents that take a long time to expire. These squash innovation because they prevent *others* from using new technologies to make even newer technologies. There has to be a balance between slowing innovation slightly and making sure that innovation is not a huge risk.

Re:Worthless patents

[Anonymous Coward]

More than likely the percentage talks broke down and they are taking it to court. Nokia just went thru this with another big cell player Qualcomm (who nokia accused of charging more than the going rate). It has nothing to do with one or the other using the other inventions. It is just about money. They settled with qualcomm for a big chunk of money going to qualcomm. Which means 'we could go to court and drag it out for years but would loose in the end'.

Apple is playing a shaky game. As Nokia is one of the 800 pound gorillas in that market. It sounds like Apple is trying to get a 'favored' status rate. These guys will not do that as it ends up costing them with other people they charge. They have things in the contracts like 'if someone else gets a lower rate you get the same rate'. Nokia will fight tooth and nail not to go below a certain rate. This magic number is never said outside of boardrooms but everyone knows who is paying what anyway...

Re:Apple is just trying not to appear weak

[LoverOfJoy]

According to Wikipedia, Apple has 35,000 employees worldwide. Nokia has over 128,000. It has 39,350 employees just in research and development. When over 30% of your employees are in R&D, you're going to take your patents very seriously. In that sense, Nokia is much bigger than Apple. But I can see your point WRT market cap. Apple has a lot of money to throw around.

Nokia has a good history when it comes to patents

[Anonymous Coward]

Because every other company has agreed to Nokia's terms. I doubt that this would have happened if their claims were without merit. In addition, Nokia has no history of patent trolling. They spend massive amounts of money to research and are responsible for many of the most important inventions related to mobile data transfer. In addition, they license all their patents rather reasonably to all the competitors. Companies like Nokia are why the patent system exists.

So, when Apple suddenly decides not to pay any licensing fees, I trust Nokia a whole lot more.

Re:Sue first, ask questions later

[dunkelfalke]

RAND terms are only available for GSM association members. Apple hasn't joined the association so RAND terms don't apply for them.